Found a really good Respect Thread for Spiderman

[Logic_Soldier]

Not sure how this site feels about links to Comicvine but I think things from the post: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...azing-spider-man-greatest-feats-comp-1890352/ could be added to Vs Wiki. Spider-man seems to scale higher than what this Wiki has him at. It seems to line up with this old Weight class Scan. I myself am not too knowledgeable on Spider-man to know what is an outlier or not so i wanted to see what this wiki thinks.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

This wiki doesn't have a very healthy relationship with Comicvine. Plus a lot of those feats seem to consist of Spider-Man downscaling from characters much stronger than himself. And were any of those feats outside of scaling calculated individually?

 

[Logic_Soldier]

This wiki doesn't have a very healthy relationship with Comicvine. Plus a lot of those feats seem to consist of Spider-Man downscaling from characters much stronger than himself. And were any of those feats outside of scaling calculated individually?

I can't answer the calc question since Spider-man's AP seems to only come from one feat, the Daily Bugle lift, and nothing else. Haven't seen any other Calcs/scaling for his AP/Durbaility There seem to be more Durability/AP feats of Spider-man being closer to Colossus in strength (Consistently taking Hits from Hulk, Fear Itself Thing, Juggernaut, Pheonix 5, etc. He should down Scale from them.. Even in a 2020 Comic Spider-man was able to push against the Strength of Juggurant but was breaking his bones in doing so. Him Clapping Tianna twice, Knocking out the Wrecking Crew, Hurting the Thing and Namor multiple times, and consistently kept up with Different/newer Ironman Armors through the deacdes. The Weight Class link shows that Spider-man should be around Ballpark of people like Colossus, and Thing. Just wondering if there are any clear Anti-feats that negate these scans.
And we know Spider-man was stated to Hold back a lot. This goes in line with him one-shotting people like Mr Negetive, Scorpian The Lizard, Tombstone and others that usually scale to him.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I feel like this will cause a scaling nightmare considering SS is there and scaling Spidey to him would be ridiculous.

Also guys like Hulk, Juggernaut and Namor I believe vary in strength (anger for Hulk Cyttorak's will for Juggernaut and water for Namor since he can get weaker after not being hydrated for a while) so they aren't reliable either.

Phoenix 5 is a big no since they should be comparable to guys like Thor individually. No way Spidey scales to them.

The other cases I'll let the others talk about that.

But I'm overall against this.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

I agree, the Silver Surfer being in the same weight class as the others is weird and I just ignore that he's there. That's why i say he should scale closer to people like Colossus and Thing or Ironman. (Seems to beat fight Ironman more than the others. I think should be around their level to survive Namor and Hulk base/weakest strength seem to scale to that weight class on this Wiki. This would explain surviving P5 and Juggurant despite being much weaker as people like She-Hulk and the Thing can take a blow or two from guys like that before being folded.

Either way, i don't Large Building is too low since he can tangle with Wrecking Crew, Titania, and The Thing and of people of similar power consistently throughout the decades. Spider-man seems to be only Large Building for a single lifting feat which is strange. Does no one think he scales to anyone else in the verse and that was the only way to find a base strength for him?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Just because they are listed at High 6-C doesn't mean that's their weakest strength. That's just the lowest they scale to in terms of feats. They can hit far weaker than that.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Just because they are listed at High 6-C doesn't mean that's their weakest strength. That's just the lowest they scale to in terms of feats. They can hit far weaker than that.

I know that's not the absolute weakest they can hit, that's why I also said base strength. But i think Spidy should be scaled to these characters instead of a lifting feat he's only done once when he's fought these 6-C characters multiple times.

 

[Mr._Propeller_Hat]

Off-site respect threads can't be used

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

No their base strength is not set and already fluctuates so scaling to them would not be reliable. Otherwise we would have a lot of 6-C Street tier Marvel characters from scaling to Spidey.

Also they can just hold back too.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Off-site respect threads can't be used

Crap, does that mean i have to delete the post?

 

[Jibz]

Crap, does that mean i have to delete the post?

No because i literally don't see a reason why this wouldn't be allowed. It's not like your parroting someone else's arguments, you provided scans and you elaborated on them so it should be fine. I'm no mod though : P

 

[Logic_Soldier]

No their base strength is not set and already fluctuates so scaling to them would not be reliable. Otherwise we would have a lot of 6-C Street tier Marvel characters from scaling to Spidey.

Also they can just hold back too.

So how does anyone scale to these characters if they're so inconsistent? And the others street heroes wouldn't scale since as i said, Spidy is known for holding back hence multiple scans of him one-shotting at least 5 of his usual villains when he gets serious.

They could be holding back, some scans have them serious/angry and he's fought them multiple times and outright defeat some of them. How many times much he fight a character before he scales to them?

 

[Logic_Soldier]

No because i literally don't see a reason why this wouldn't be allowed. It's not like your parroting someone else's arguments, you provided scans and you elaborated on them so it should be fine. I'm no mod though : P

I did a quick look through the rules before posting to see if it was against the rules to post this link and didn't see anything so i hope it's fine.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

So how does anyone scale to these characters if they're so inconsistent? And the others street heroes wouldn't scale since as i said, Spidy is known for holding back hence multiple scans of him one-shotting at least 5 of his usual villains when he gets serious.

They could be holding back, some scans have them serious/angry and he's fought them multiple times and outright defeat some of them. How many times much he fight a character before he scales to them?

The High 6-C is for them scaling to people like Captain Marvel and her feat.

They are people above Spidey such as Luke Cage, Rhino, the Symbiotes and so on that would scale above him so it affects them and anyone else that can fight them. Which is like a lot of people.

When they aren't being hit by PIS and writer bias since heavy hitters in Marvel job to some Street level guys and this been a thing for a while. Even if Spidey holds back, he cannot be as strong as Thing tier level guys if guys like Collective Man (a guy who is only up to 8-B) can hurt him.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

I have no problem with Luke Cage also scaling up seeing as he can also fight people like Namor, have a brutal back and forth with Proxima Midnight, K.O a relaxed She-hulk, and is seen to be in the same weight class as Spidey.

You have a point about the Symbiotes, but that's why i'm here. What Tier of characters do they consistently fight?

I don't think Spidy being hurt by Collevitve Man should be a deciding factor as this is Comics, that's why i wanted people's opinion on what feats of Spidy's would be an outlier and the Ant-feats to support that 8-C is where he sits. I could bring up Spider-man beating Firelord to place Firelord at 8-C. Or how Ironman completely bullied Red Hulk that one time. It's like you implied it's about consistency.

The hard thing about whether or not if Spider-man is consistently 8-C is hard seeing as almost all people in that range (Heroes and villains) are scaling from Spider-man so it would basically look like this. ("Spider-man is 8-C because he was harmed by a 8-C character who's 8-C because they scale to 8-C Spider-man.") So if he is consistently shown o scale below characters at 8-B like collective Man then i think it would further support the 8-C spider-man other than a single lifting feat.
Spider-man has repeatedly shown to be able to fight and harm Ironman in armors that scale above 8-C.

About to go to bed i'll be back in the morning.

 

[CosmicWreck]

I can't answer the calc question since Spider-man's AP seems to only come from one feat, the Daily Bugle lift, and nothing else.

Eh, that's not strictly true.

Great find though. Unfortunately, most of it doesn't conform to our DC/Marvel scaling rules. While this doesn't mean it can't be used, it does mean the only viable scans are the ones that provide context to the power levels of the characters shown in the story.

For example, Spider-man kicking Electro through 40 stories and one-shotting Tombstone after he tanked a building level feat would count as scalable (and should be calculated imo).

Stopping a blow from Juggernaut and staggering Hulk level characters wouldn't.

Also, despite the downscaling you suggest the thread has several anti-feats as well, like Spider-man being taken down by a thrown car notably smaller than an American one, after all. To say that he's consistently herald tier is very, very questionable tbh.

Off-site respect threads can't be used

This is not true. Reddit and even Spacebattles have been used as sources of respect threads before.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

I have no problem with Luke Cage also scaling up seeing as he can also fight people like Namor, have a brutal back and forth with Proxima Midnight, K.O a relaxed She-hulk, and is seen to be in the same weight class as Spidey.

You have a point about the Symbiotes, but that's why i'm here. What Tier of characters do they consistently fight?

I don't think Spidy being hurt by Collevitve Man should be a deciding factor as this is Comics, that's why i wanted people's opinion on what feats of Spidy's would be an outlier and the Ant-feats to support that 8-C is where he sits. I could bring up Spider-man beating Firelord to place Firelord at 8-C. Or how Ironman completely bullied Red Hulk that one time. It's like you implied it's about consistency.

The hard thing about whether or not if Spider-man is consistently 8-C is hard seeing as almost all people in that range (Heroes and villains) are scaling from Spider-man so it would basically look like this. ("Spider-man is 8-C because he was harmed by a 8-C character who's 8-C because they scale to 8-C Spider-man.") So if he is consistently shown o scale below characters at 8-B like collective Man then i think it would further support the 8-C spider-man other than a single lifting feat.
Spider-man has repeatedly shown to be able to fight and harm Ironman in armors that scale above 8-C.

About to go to bed i'll be back in the morning.

Luke Cage might be scaled higher, but to what extent I don't know. I honestly don't think it would be that high.

Guys like Spider-Man and those comparable to him.

False equivalency. Firelord and Red Hulk are meant to scale to far stronger characters (Silver Surfer and Hulk) so your example doesn't hold much weight there. Like I said earlier, PIS, writer bias and Varying strength levels.

Iron Man Armors kind of vary from time to time. Don't know much about that, so you need to talk to maybe someone else on this.

You said people won't scale to Spidey cause he "holds back", well several characters here do the same so why is this the exception all of a sudden. Also being serious or angry =/= going all out.

 

[The_Impress]

Not sure how this site feels about links to Comicvine but I think things from the post: https://comicvine.gamespot.com/foru...azing-spider-man-greatest-feats-comp-1890352/ could be added to Vs Wiki. Spider-man seems to scale higher than what this Wiki has him at. It seems to line up with this old Weight class Scan. I myself am not too knowledgeable on Spider-man to know what is an outlier or not so i wanted to see what this wiki thinks.

You know a scan is good when ******* Sasquath is >>> the Silver Surfer.

It's not consistency alone, again, because through that they'd be 9-B max. It's consistency with context. Most meme feats of Firelord losing to Spider-Man can be remedied if you read the issue and realize, Firelord is an overwhelmingly powerful and lethal threat to Spider-Man throughout and was beaten up by Spider-Man because "he never gives up", this is PIS, plain and simple.

Spider-Man oneshotting Tombstone or being exactly = Luke Cage isn't really consistent either, when both characters have oneshot and absolutely ******* wrecked Spidey multiple times.

A RESPECT THREAD isn't the same as a file, a respect thread shouldn't have any need for consistency and list all relevant feats. A PROFILE has to note verse consistency and whatnot, both don't fit the same criteria.

How many of those scans in the respect thread is Spider-Man getting absolutely ******* wrecked by the Juggernaut? Or the Hulk? Or the Rhino? Or getting wrecked by a car? Or straining to lift up a building? Or barely surviving an 8-C attack? Or getting ****** up by a fall? I can deadass just make a compilation of Spider-Man getting threatened by bullets and deadass probably get 200 instances of it. They're not listing anti-feats in that thing, mate.

Also Spider-Man tier has 8 feats currently listed that support High 8-C across the cast's file, it isn't just the Daily Bugle feat lol.

 

[Amelia_Lonelyheart]

Crap, does that mean i have to delete the post?

They can be used ofc, but not every site has the same standards.

 

[StekFence]

2 of the Phoenix 5 went into a fight with Spider-Man. None came out. Clear scaling here smh

 

[The_Impress]

2 of the Phoenix 5 went into a fight with Spider-Man. None came out. Clear scaling here smh

Low 1-C Spider-Man IS hella based ngl.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Eh, that's not strictly true.

Great find though. Unfortunately, most of it doesn't conform to our DC/Marvel scaling rules. While this doesn't mean it can't be used, it does mean the only viable scans are the ones that provide context to the power levels of the characters shown in the story.

For example, Spider-man kicking Electro through 40 stories and one-shotting Tombstone after he tanked a building level feat would count as scalable (and should be calculated imo).

Stopping a blow from Juggernaut and staggering Hulk level characters wouldn't.

Also, despite the downscaling you suggest the thread has several anti-feats as well, like Spider-man being taken down by a thrown car notably smaller than an American one, after all. To say that he's consistently herald tier is very, very questionable tbh.

This is not true. Reddit and even Spacebattles have been used as sources of respect threads before.

Missed that Calc but the fact that Spidy seems completely unharmed shows that's not his limit.

Ah. So we need the Story context behind these battles before we decided if he scales or not? Luckily the creator of that thread tells us each Comic this happens in. If I find the time maybe i'll go through some of them and see.

I agree that he shouldn't scale to Juggurant and Hulk.

I wouldn't acknowledge an Anti-feat that would even disprove an 8-C Spider-man-like car one you used. And i'm not saying he's consistently herald tier, but more so low-mid tier.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Luke Cage might be scaled higher, but to what extent I don't know. I honestly don't think it would be that high.

Guys like Spider-Man and those comparable to him.

False equivalency. Firelord and Red Hulk are meant to scale to far stronger characters (Silver Surfer and Hulk) so your example doesn't hold much weight there. Like I said earlier, PIS, writer bias and Varying strength levels.

Iron Man Armors kind of vary from time to time. Don't know much about that, so you need to talk to maybe someone else on this.

You said people won't scale to Spidey cause he "holds back", well several characters here do the same so why is this the exception all of a sudden. Also being serious or angry =/= going all out.

The question is who really scales to Spidy. When serious in Ends of the Earth he one-shot Spider-Woman. Superior Spider-man crushed Goblin's arms pretty easily and also knocked out Black Cat without any problem. We've seen what a not holding Back Spidy can do to his usuals. If the others that scale to him can do the same then i couldn't see why they wouldn't scale.

True, but i'm just saying, being hurt by collective man, alone isn't enough to decide that's his limit unless it's consistent for him to be hurt by other 8-B characters.

We have a list of Iron-man most prominent Armors and the ones Spider-man fought in the Scans so we can judge how strong he'd have to be to break those Armors.

Sure they also hold back, Spider just isn't taking a single hit. He K.Od Titania, One of the Wreaking Crew, has Broken Multiple different Ironman Armors. And unless the people he's fought against has K.Od him in the past when serious, i don't see why he shouldn't scale. But if that's to unreliable then i believe Ironman would be the best bet. I think Tony only fought Captain Marvel once and he scales to her in his Prime Armor. (Which i don't believe Spider-man scales to.)

 

[Logic_Soldier]

You know a scan is good when ******* Sasquath is >>> the Silver Surfer.

It's not consistency alone, again, because through that they'd be 9-B max. It's consistency with context. Most meme feats of Firelord losing to Spider-Man can be remedied if you read the issue and realize, Firelord is an overwhelmingly powerful and lethal threat to Spider-Man throughout and was beaten up by Spider-Man because "he never gives up", this is PIS, plain and simple.

Spider-Man oneshotting Tombstone or being exactly = Luke Cage isn't really consistent either, when both characters have oneshot and absolutely ******* wrecked Spidey multiple times.

A RESPECT THREAD isn't the same as a file, a respect thread shouldn't have any need for consistency and list all relevant feats. A PROFILE has to note verse consistency and whatnot, both don't fit the same criteria.

How many of those scans in the respect thread is Spider-Man getting absolutely ******* wrecked by the Juggernaut? Or the Hulk? Or the Rhino? Or getting wrecked by a car? Or straining to lift up a building? Or barely surviving an 8-C attack? Or getting ****** up by a fall? I can deadass just make a compilation of Spider-Man getting threatened by bullets and deadass probably get 200 instances of it. They're not listing anti-feats in that thing, mate.

Also Spider-Man tier has 8 feats currently listed that support High 8-C across the cast's file, it isn't just the Daily Bugle feat lol.

I've said before Silver Surfer being there is weird and simply wrong so i just ignore it like it was a mistake.

I don't think Spidy is equal to anyone on the Weight Class list such as Luke, but that he can hang with them. Similar to how The Thing is Weaker than She-Hulk but he's on the same tier as her. Or how Spidy is weaker than Luke but is on the Same Tier as him.

That's why i posted the link here. I wanted people to go through it it tell me which feats are legit, PIS, or an Outlier. What disproves some feats and supports other feats. I don't think everything in the Threat should be used but unfortunately, it seems like i'm the only one trying to figure out what's BS or legit. Also wanted to know what consistently puts Spidey at 8-C? But it seems you know why that tier was chosen and not any other tier such as 8-B, 7-C or even Low 8-C. What makes that tier the most reliable for Spidy?

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

The question is who really scales to Spidy. When serious in Ends of the Earth he one-shot Spider-Woman. Superior Spider-man crushed Goblin's arms pretty easily and also knocked out Black Cat without any problem. We've seen what a not holding Back Spidy can do to his usuals. If the others that scale to him can do the same then i couldn't see why they wouldn't scale.

True, but i'm just saying, being hurt by collective man, alone isn't enough to decide that's his limit unless it's consistent for him to be hurt by other 8-B characters.

We have a list of Iron-man most prominent Armors and the ones Spider-man fought in the Scans so we can judge how strong he'd have to be to break those Armors.

Sure they also hold back, Spider just isn't taking a single hit. He K.Od Titania, One of the Wreaking Crew, has Broken Multiple different Ironman Armors. And unless the people he's fought against has K.Od him in the past when serious, i don't see why he shouldn't scale. But if that's to unreliable then i believe Ironman would be the best bet. I think Tony only fought Captain Marvel once and he scales to her in his Prime Armor. (Which i don't believe Spider-man scales to.)

One shotting someone or beating them up easily =/= person being a higher tier than those they beat up. He can be stronger than them but not enough to be a whole new tier. That's a thing in this site.

Pretty sure guys like Electro can do that too and their about the same tier as Spidey is currently.

Iron Man armors are a bit inconsistent themselves at times. Wasn't there instances where Steve, Bucky or T'Challa can hurt Tony in them without special equipment?

Again, surviving a few hits from them =/= scaling to them. Jobbing has happened before and has been done to even Spidey being hurt by guys weaker than him. Doesn't mean they get High 8-C off it.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

One shotting someone or beating them up easily =/= person being a higher tier than those they beat up. He can be stronger than them but not enough to be a whole new tier. That's a thing in this site.

Pretty sure guys like Electro can do that too and their about the same tier as Spidey is currently.

Iron Man armors are a bit inconsistent themselves at times. Wasn't there instances where Bucky or T'Challa can hurt Tony in them without special equipment?

Again, surviving a few hits from them =/= scaling to them. Jobbing has happened before and has been done to even Spidey being hurt by guys weaker than him. Doesn't mean they get High 8-C off it.

By itself no. If Spider-man really can tangle with the Low-Mid Tiers then it would support the idea that he is above them in strength.

Electro and do what? Break Ironman Armors or one-shot Spidy Villains?

It's possible that fighting Ironman could've been BS. But let's refresh it then. If Any Mid Tier feats of Spider can be responded to with "Namor has inconsistent Strength, Ironman's Armor is inconsistent, PIS or holding back." (which is all possible with Comics Scaling/Logic.)
Then what puts Spider-man at 8-C and not any higher? Why is that the tier that was decided to be the most likely/Consistent tier for Spidy and not any other? I understand the hesitance to put him any higher if there's a solid reason why he's at the tier he is via feats/statements.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Basically Marvel/DC scaling in a nut shell; it's basically just an infinite number of loopholes within loopholes left and right. Spider-Man is struggling to fight ordinary street thugs one day but is sort of matching toe to toe with demi-gods the next. Though the demi-gods are usually holding back a great deal and the stories of Spider-Man getting one-shotted by Luke Cage, Firestorm, Hulk, ect outnumber the opposite. And as far as his own direct feats are concerned, he comfortably lands in High 8-C when combining consistency with fairness.

Plus, respect blogs often just list a bunch of random alleged feats; no calculations no details about how strong the respective characters he does fight are, some feats may be prone to be taken out of context such as a lot of respect threads contain things that are clear aim dodging in the speed section and/or durability section lists and explosion that the character doesn't actually tank, ect. And most importantly, they're often made by people unaware of terms such as outliers or PIS.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

By itself no. If Spider-man really can tangle with the Low-Mid Tiers then it would support the idea that he is above them in strength.

Electro and do what? Break Ironman Armors or one-shot Spidy Villains?

It's possible that fighting Ironman could've been BS. But let's refresh it then. If Any Mid Tier feats of Spider can be responded to with "Namor has inconsistent Strength, Ironman's Armor is inconsistent, PIS or holding back." (which is all possible with Comics Scaling/Logic.)
Then what puts Spider-man at 8-C and not any higher? Why is that the tier that was decided to be the most likely/Consistent tier for Spidy and not any other? I understand the hesitance to put him any higher if there's a solid reason why he's at the tier he is via feats/statements.

Unless they are holding back or PIS is involved.

Do feats like this. Relatively the same in Spidey's tier.

Because these are feats done by him only and not by scaling to another character meant to out of his weight class. Lifting the Daily Bugle? His feat. Tanking that explosion? His feat. Most of his feats and characters meant to be scaling to him fall under 8-C. If you think he deserves a higher tier, find a new feat done by him and have it calced. If it's higher than High 8-C and it's approved in its Math and scaling, go ahead and make a thread to upgrade him. Until then, he should stay where he is.

Sorry to say, but I think this won't be accepted.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Basically Marvel/DC scaling in a nut shell; it's basically just an infinite number of loopholes within loopholes left and right. Spider-Man is struggling to fight ordinary street thugs one day but is sort of matching toe to toe with demi-gods the next. Though the demi-gods are usually holding back a great deal and the stories of Spider-Man getting one-shotted by Luke Cage, Firestorm, Hulk, ect outnumber the opposite. And as far as his own direct feats are concerned, he comfortably lands in High 8-C when combining consistency with fairness.

Plus, respect blogs often just list a bunch of random alleged feats; no calculations no details about how strong the respective characters he does fight are, some feats may be prone to be taken out of context such as a lot of respect threads contain things that are clear aim dodging in the speed section and/or durability section lists and explosion that the character doesn't actually tank, ect. And most importantly, they're often made by people unaware of terms such as outliers or PIS.

I think i get it. I guess Spidy can't be scaled to any other heroes/villains unless he first has a calc/feat to support being on the tier of the character he's fighting.

 

[Logic_Soldier]

Unless they are holding back or PIS is involved.

Do feats like this. Relatively the same in Spidey's tier.

Because these are feats done by him only and not by scaling to another character meant to out of his weight class. Lifting the Daily Bugle? His feat. Tanking that explosion? His feat. Most of his feats and characters meant to be scaling to him fall under 8-C.

Sorry to say, but I think this won't be accepted.

I understand. Thanks for clearing it up. Guess if I want Spidy to be a higher tier I better start reading through his Comics looking for Feats to Calc to that level instead of scaling to others.

 

[MarvelFanatic119]

Pretty much that, yeah.

 

[KLOL506]

This is not true. Reddit and even Spacebattles have been used as sources of respect threads before.

We now have new rules where you can't just blindly copypaste such threads here without at least making up your own arguments and bringing up your own scans to support said threads. Otherwise they're just generally sent to the comments section of the General Discussions thread.

Even then, the best they go to is the Questions and Answers thread, CRTs are strictly a no-no now.

 

[CosmicWreck]

Oh, alright then.

 

[The_Impress]

What makes that tier the most reliable for Spidy?

Just more feats there that make sense given context, if Spidey is in a comic his cap is likely gonna be High 8-C more often than not, ignoring some common antifeats like bullets and fall damage.

Nuke feats he survives due to PIS more often than not, disagree completely that Spider-Man relevantly keeps up with the High 6-Cs by anything other than sheer speed, and lower feats don’t make sense given context.

It just evens out to that tier

 

[CosmicWreck]

What nuke feats do you mean? The only nuke feat I remember is when spidey was amped by his The Other powers and he's city level anyway (not to mention he was a fair distance away from it).

 

[The_Impress]

What nuke feats do you mean? The only nuke feat I remember is when spidey was amped by his The Other powers and he's city level anyway (not to mention he was a fair distance away from it).

Oh there are a bunch beyond that, with similiar issues of “Spider-Man is way the **** away and gets knocked out and be near death”

Anyways honestly this thread really offers nothing imo, I’ll close it.

@Logic_Soldier please instead of dropping a thread on a CRT and going “Scour through and debunk stuff”, actually put together a comprehensive listing, I don’t think a single supporter is in the mood to address feats likely brought up a bajillion times before.

This is arguable at best if it is a CRT, peace.