A new type of Preparation

[SamanPatou]

Permission received here

So, my proposal is to add a new type of Preparation to the current list of applications. This would be the ability of a character to gather or create an army, a crew, a gang or a group of underlings in general and deploy them in preparation for an incoming battle or to put some plan in motion, like an invasion and things like that.
This type requires a kind of subordination for the allies, therefore all characters with a bunch of friends or that are part of a team are excluded. Also, it must be in character for them to do so.
Some examples are Whitebeard, Frieza, Bowser, Ainz Oal Gown, Dr. Eggman etc... This ability is valid even for those able to create their soldiers, like zombies, robots, monsters etc...
And since it is preparation, it's excluded from standard vs matches, like all the other types.

What do you think?

 

[Antvasima]

I suppose that this does not seem to cause any harm, and might be useful to add as an option.

@Promestein @AKM sama @DontTalkDT @Agnaa @Damage3245 @Eficiente @Antoniofer @Matthew_Schroeder

What do you think? Would this be beneficial, or risk to cause any problems?

 

[Damage3245]

I suppose this seems fine to add on.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, KING's option does sound rather harmful and misleading, in a "Batman: Tier 4-B via calling for Superman" manner.

As such, it is probably better to stick with our current system instead.

 

[SamanPatou]

Tier change would be dependant on each character and would need its own CRT, we already have plenty of people that can have a higher tier thanks to Preparation, because they can become stronger or create/obtain some weapon.

Superman isn't Batman's underling, I specified that this type is valid only for people that have authority over their subordinates, soldiers, minions or else, not for every character that is part of a team or have friends.
Even other characters don't have preparation just because they can go buy a gun, they must have demonstrated to be able to prepare in some specific way and the will to do so

Using this in a vs thread can lead to an army vs army, or even just army vs 1 person.
There are many characters that would use their armies or crews to have an advantage over an enemy, but they don't always go around with a legion alongside them, that's why is Preparation

 

[Damage3245]

Using this in a vs thread can lead to an army vs army, or even just army vs 1 person.

It would probably be better just to have a profile for the army, instead of adding it to the leader's profile.

 

[SamanPatou]

That can be an addition, but some characters might have a smaller group or the army can not be notable enough. Esdeath for example can create an army of ice golem, but she needs time, in her case Preparation would cover them.
It's the same reason for which some weapons and vehicles have their own profiles and the link are included in the profile of the user, but we don't make a single profile for every gun and sword, just like we don't exclude weapon or vechicle mastery from the user's profile.
Notable army can have a profile if worthy to do so, and the leader should still have addressed the possibility for it to access to them.
If the army isn't notable enough, it will not have a profile, like characters that can summon a swarm of bugs, weaker creatures or entities comparable to them but aren't worthy enough to have their own page (or the previous example of equipment and vehicles)
Sometimes the subordinates have their own profiles, in that case the profile could feature a list with the respective link, like within the notable techniques.

Even if it sounds like a large thing to do, it can be done overtime by single users and in a case by case situation, like we do for other versatile powers.

I belive it would be a notable addition both for the indexing and for the vs side

 

[Antvasima]

Yes, equipment that can be invented still stems from the character itself in a sense, but it is not outside help from other characters.

I agree with Damage. This seems to be a bad idea on second thought. My apologies,

 

[LIFE_OF_KING]

Well, KING's option does sound rather harmful and misleading, in a "Batman: Tier 4-B via calling for Superman" manner.

As such, it is probably better to stick with our current system instead.

Yes, it is strange. I think it would be better to leave this "ability" valid only for armies formed only by unimportant characters, such as Frieza's soldiers

 

[SamanPatou]

Ok, I understand.

If we were to link the army profile to the the leader's page, where should it be? Optional equipment? Notable attacks? An additional minor section?
Something like Alvarez Soldiers, that should be linked to Zeref, since they are his own army.

(@LifeOfKing the main problem wouldn't be the tiering itself, given all the characters that have a higher tier due to Preparation)

 

[SamanPatou]

Or, last try, we could add the ability but setting the rule that the army must have its own profile, in order to not mess too much with the leader's profile.

I get that might be a bit complicated anyway, but as I said, it's the last try.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not think that it seems like a good idea. My apologies.

 

[Eficiente]

It can be a new type but we should give no tiers simply due to a profile having it. We can get into a lot of weird and cringy things written on profiles by applying technicalities like this, if they created that or can control it them that would be on the profile, other armies may not have a special tier but have a big number of members, and those could have their own profile as a whole or individually.

The page is also pretty outdated, the Education type says nothing about getting to know things of a target, Evolution is not a thing most can do if they're not a Pokémon, the name should be other and the description should point out Accelerated Development as a thing that may be there, Technological Preparation is poorly thought out, one may not create new tech but get stuff others made, at which one is more so an equipment thing, it may also not give any new tier but other stats, new powers or whatever, Information Preparation is vague as f*ck, idk what does it even mean or how that's different than the Education type. The summary is wrong and that big image unnecessary.

 

[SamanPatou]

This seems something that should be considered and discussed in the "improving pages thread", maybe after the Supernatural Willpower is finished, because there's a lot to do.

Also, what about Damage's proposal to link the Armies' profile to the page of their leader?
Where should they be placed?
Like the example I made with Alvarez Soldiers and Zeref. If they were to be added to Zeref's profile, in which part should they stay? Optional equip, notable attacks, additional section etc...

 

[Eficiente]

Supernatural Willpower seems pointless, we may as well have a power for having a pure heart.

On the profiles' Preparation power, intelligence or notable attacks & techniques going over their prep stuff, you pick.

 

[SamanPatou]

Regarding Willpower you can express your idea in this topic, where the it's being discussed.

I also forgot that the topic for the improvement of the powers pages is currently free, so you can address the problems regarding the current Preparation page.

The other thing is that Damage proposed, as a compromise, to make profile pages for the armies and add their link to the page of their leader, instead of making a new type. My question is where this link should be put? Its purpose is to address that a character can deploy its own army, but if that's not a new type of preparation, this link has to be put somewhere in the profile, the point is where.

 

[Promestein]

We can always have more civilization pages, and just note it in preparation that they can potentially call for certain allies.

 

[Agnaa]

I'm okay with preparation mentioning the ability to utilize their own creation powers to prepare for a battle. Such as by creating an army of ice golems, creating weapons/buildings that'd aid them in battle, etc.

I am strongly against including, say, an army commander's battalion. I don't think having structural authority over someone like that should let you use them in battle.

Evolution is not a thing most can do if they're not a Pokémon, the name should be other and the description should point out Accelerated Development as a thing that may be there

I do agree with renaming this, and I think that point could maybe include stuff like modifying one's body to make them more suited for a particular battle (ala Bonesaw).

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I'm okay with preparation mentioning the ability to utilize their own creation powers to prepare for a battle. Such as by creating an army of ice golems, creating weapons/buildings that'd aid them in battle, etc.

The best example of this I can think of off the top of my head are Promeathean Watchers from Halo. They can pretty much make an unlimited supply of Crawlers and Turrets if they have enough time to do so.

 

[SamanPatou]

I am strongly against including, say, an army commander's battalion. I don't think having structural authority over someone like that should let you use them in battle.

Not even if they have shown to use their armies/crews/group to face a battle or initiate a plan? (I know it has already been rejected, this is just for discuss)

 

[Agnaa]

@Saman Nope, not even then.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

I agree with Damage and Prom, that simply linking them to profiles is fine. But I wouldn't include the tier or various abilities of an ally on the original character's profile.

 

[SamanPatou]

And in what part of the profile should it be linked?

 

[Agnaa]

I'm not sure if this is standard, but I myself did something like that on Azra Livbar's profile.

 

[SamanPatou]

I suppose that a customized part of the profile to link the army should be fine, then.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, we definitely cannot increase any tiers based on this.

 

[SamanPatou]

I just want to point out that increasing tiers has never been my intention

 

[AKM sama]

I am with Damage, Prom and Medeus as well.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. We need to clarify in the Preparation page that it should not be allowed to change any statistics based on available allies though.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

So basically as long as it doesn't change your Tiering or summon other characters that aren't actual parts of their arsenal, it's all good? Right?

 

[Agnaa]

Preparation that changes tiering is fine.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not remember so well, but I think that the other staff members agreed that regular allies should only be mentioned in the equipment section, and nothing else? Not change any tiers or give extra abilities.

 

[SamanPatou]

It was kinda tricky, because tier changing via preparation is allowed, though, but not if it is done via underlings (even though my original idea didn't even plan the possibility of a tier change, if not for really extreme cases, but I don't want to bring it on again).

However, it was agreed to just make a profile for the army/crew/ group etc... and link it in the leader's profile.

I made a proposal regarding the addition of "Optional Companions" on the Standard Profile Format, but due to other ongoing issues it was delayed, but it's not really a problem, nothing stops you from customizing profiles with that kind of sections.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

It was kinda tricky, because tier changing via preparation is allowed, though, but not if it is done via underlings (even though my original idea didn't even plan the possibility of a tier change, if not for really extreme cases, but I don't want to bring it on again).

However, it was agreed to just make a profile for the army/crew/ group etc... and link it in the leader's profile.

I made a proposal regarding the addition of "Optional Companions" on the Standard Profile Format, but due to other ongoing issues it was delayed, but it's not really a problem, nothing stops you from customizing profiles with that kind of sections.

This sounds like the perfect kind of Prep for The Survivor (ARK: Survival Evolved).

 

[SamanPatou]

I mean, my original intent was to "officialize" the fact that preparing for a battle isn't limited to studying, creating machines, training or other things you do on your own.
If somebody has or can create/recruit underlings, forces, an army, a gang etc... it might be willing to bring it with it for a battle. I also wanted to keep everything in a "vertical" relationship between the leader and the others, in order to avoid things like Goku bringing Vegeta or Cap. America calling all the Avengers.
A change of tier would have been very rare, limited to very extreme cases.

Anyway, we already established that there are different and more popular ways to enable the thing.

 

[The_Axiom_of_Virgo]

I feel like this is overlapping with summoning.

 

[SamanPatou]

You're not the only one to bring up this doubt, but it is fundamentally different, because a summon is performed during a battle and usually through supernatural mean, while this idea of mine focuses on preparing you underlings before the battle and bringing them with you because you have authority over them.
It would be like saying that bringing a sword from home would be the same as magically create it, you still end up using a sword but the way you do so it's completely different.

I still want to point out that the entire case is already closed.

 

[Antvasima]

So what should we do now?

 

[SamanPatou]

Well, nothing, if nobody wants to re-open the case and re-consider the idea of applying the addition if it doesn't change the tier.

As I said, I accepted the decision, and pointed out the alternative ways that have been provided.
This conversation was meant to better clarify what my idea was, the specifics and why it differs from summoning, but It wasn't my intention to push for it being accepted, since the thing was already concluded.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. So was this accepted or not?

If it was, we preferably need to make a small addition to the Standard Format for Character Profiles page.