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Beyblade Metal Fusion downgrades

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JJSliderman

JJSliderman

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So, I was looking back through the Beyblade Metal Saga again, and wanted to talk about some elements that didn't seem quite right.

First off is Gingka's 3-A rating in Metal Fusion, which comes from him turning Thermal Pisces's pocket dimension into a universe. It seems fine on the surface...until you look at the context and realize this feat doesn't exist. Ryutaro was just pretending with the whole "special space" gimmick, and it's really just illusions that interfere with Gingka's brain (He even says so himself in his second battle with Gingka). So, Gingka didn't reality warp any space, he just dispelled an illusion from Pisces. Since this feat only scales to Gingka anyway, removing it seems uncontroversial.

Then there's Pegasus's Galaxy Nova at the end of Fusion. Firstly, the link of it giving light to the galaxy doesn't work anymore, so maybe that should be updated (assuming the flash of light as Pegasus disappears from view is a legit feat and not just a visual effect). But, I also don't really see anything outright indicating Pegasus created the galaxy, as opposed to just flying to an existing one like in similar special moves he's performed later on, so if there's evidence for that, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, the line about Pegasus creating the galaxy should be removed, along with 3-C tiering.

The space was treated as a universe ig because of the first fight with Ryutaro:

The galaxies are definitely real, since Pegasus specifically flies through space in later seasons to travel to a galaxy for his special moves. It's just usually he doesn't create a galaxy in those moves, and he didn't create a galaxy with the same special move in Shogun Steel. But since the Bey can create the Pegasus constellation casually, and there are Beys with universes inside them in S1, it's debatable that Pegasus can make its own galaxy, especially when it has its own offshoot universe to itself as early as the S2 premiere.


(Statement about Thermal Pisces' dimension not being real)

(Gingka creating the galaxy, it's kind of debatable ig whether he created it or not)

Here's the constellation feat as well, for reference

Episode 47 or Metal Fusion and Episodes 1, 49-50 have the universal stuff
 
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Metal Masters is fine in terms of stats, although it will forever bug me someone told me there was a line about Twisted Tempo spinning faster than time that I couldn’t find
 
JJSliderman said:
Metal Masters is fine in terms of stats, although it will forever bug me someone told me there was a line about Twisted Tempo spinning faster than time that I couldn’t find
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I find Low 2C to being very questionable as Metal Master wasn’t even supposed to being Tier 2 like at all as this is the only feat that comes to mind and it involves a pocket dimension.
 
I wanna wait for Kukui, he’s the Beyblade expert and maybe he can say smthn about 3-C.
But Low 2-C has at least three sources to it, being Dark Wolf, Twisted Tempo, and Pegasus having their own dimensions, so on that front it seems okay.
Although I wonder if creating a constellation is still 4-A
 
JJSliderman said:
I wanna wait for Kukui, he’s the Beyblade expert and maybe he can say smthn about 3-C.
But Low 2-C has at least three sources to it, being Dark Wolf, Twisted Tempo, and Pegasus having their own dimensions, so on that front it seems okay.
Although I wonder if creating a constellation is still 4-A
Click to expand...
Gonna need solid evidence though as I not sure on Pegasus and Dark Wolf. Twisted Tempo is kinda iffy
 
Maybe it can be talked about in a different thread. There are some other aspects of Beyblade that might need to be talked about (like separating which abilities come from the physical Bey and which come from the spirit)
 
(Statement about Thermal Pisces' dimension not being real)

(Gingka creating the galaxy, it's kind of debatable ig whether he created it or not)

Here's the constellation feat as well, for reference
 
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Well, ig these can be judged then:





Hades Kerbecs dimension is referred to as Hades or the Underworld and is also seemingly large enough to contain its own sun when Kyoya reality warps it:
 
Any chance a staff member could ping Kukui? I'd look in the subs to see if they have an answer, but good Beyblade Metal Saga subs are basically impossible to find.
 
Sorry for being late again. At the moment I’m very busy with things off site, which is why I haven’t been very active lately. Someone called me for this and given no one else really runs beyblade here besides me, I’m making time to respond.

I’m @ work rn so this reply may be rushed, but I’m disagreeing with the downgrades. At least on everything not related to Pisces feat. I’ll be responding to the other stuff first.


JJSliderman said:
Then there's Pegasus's Galaxy Nova at the end of Fusion. Firstly, the link of it giving light to the galaxy doesn't work anymore, so maybe that should be updated (assuming the flash of light as Pegasus disappears from view is a legit feat and not just a visual effect). But, I also don't really see anything outright indicating Pegasus created the galaxy, as opposed to just flying to an existing one like in similar special moves he's performed later on, so if there's evidence for that, it would be greatly appreciated. Otherwise, the line about Pegasus creating the galaxy should be removed, along with 3-C tiering.
Click to expand...
No offense, but this reason for wanting to remove the 3-C feat is silly.

Other than the fact that the special move is literally called “Galaxy Nova”, which should tell you that Galaxy creation being a part of the attack isn’t far fetched, there’s literally no Galaxy in sight anywhere in the setting until Pegasus uses its special move.

Visibly speaking here, we see Pegasus and L-Drago fly quickly out into the depths of space to battle each other, and at that moment, there’s no Galaxy depicted, even when Pegasus is attacking L-Drago right before the special move is done.

IMG_2628.png


Why would a Galaxy, that visibly isn’t seen moments earlier, randomly appear out of absolutely no where if it wasn’t created by Pegasus’s attack? The claim that the Galaxy is “already existing” doesn’t get backed up by any on screen depictions or details, but skepticism of the feat, whereas the rating comes from what’s directly given and not a level of speculation.

And simply because of that, I’m against the outright removal of the feat from the ratings. Even if “Possibly” has to be put on the table, more should support the feat than go against.

Now, as for Pisces feat.


JJSliderman said:
So, I was looking back through the Beyblade Metal Saga again, and wanted to talk about some elements that didn't seem quite right.

First off is Gingka's 3-A rating in Metal Fusion, which comes from him turning Thermal Pisces's pocket dimension into a universe. It seems fine on the surface...until you look at the context and realize this feat doesn't exist. Ryutaro was just pretending with the whole "special space" gimmick, and it's really just illusions that interfere with Gingka's brain (He even says so himself in his second battle with Gingka). So, Gingka didn't reality warp any space, he just dispelled an illusion from Pisces. Since this feat only scales to Gingka anyway, removing it seems uncontroversial.
Click to expand...
While this is sort of correct actually and very understandable on why it doesn’t seem to be a feat, the OP is mixing things up here.

Ryutaro in his second battle with Gingka never specified the actual space Pisces would create is an illusion. Instead, Ryutaro said that the things created inside the space are illusions, such as the flames and ice that Gingka and Pegasus were attacked with.

What’s even more damning, from my memory of it, is that if you factor in the Beyblade Sol Blaze movie here (which should be canon because the main antagonist appears in Shogun Steel), Pisces Distortion Drive is outright called another world as someone states to Masamune.

So while it seems understandable that the feat wouldn’t be a feat, I’m not really fixated on removing it right now, even if it doesn’t change the tier 3 ratings for anyone besides Gingka.

Pisces feat is more debatable, but I’m 100% against Galaxy Novas feat being removed.
 
Well, the shot of Pegasus there is kind of from a different angle perspective than the galaxy shot, so it's possible that's why the galaxy isn't in view. But since Pegasus can already casually create constellations I guess it's more acceptable to say he can make a galaxy. And the skepticism over the feat was moreso based on how every other time a galaxy is involved in a special move, the Bey just travels to a galaxy rather than creating one. I should also note that Galaxy Nova appears in Shogun Steel with no galaxy creation there, I'm not saying that invalidates the idea but eh.

For Pisces, I'm not sure why he would use illusions for everything else, but make a real space to fight in, it seems sort of contradictory.

Actually, while we're here, do you think it's possible to argue the speed of Twisted Tempo's universe creation can be chained to its physicals, since the space is created by the gravitational force of Tempo spinning?
 
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JJSliderman said:
For Pisces, I'm not sure why he would use illusions for everything else, but make a real space to fight in, it seems sort of contradictory.
Click to expand...
From the dialogue I can see in the linked video, he explains that his illusions **** with the senses. If everything is an illusion, I'd say the space should be treated as the same, unless we have a direct statement about it being not an illusion. Also, why is the space treated as a universe? I didn't see anything related to it in the video.

JJSliderman said:
Gingka creating the galaxy, it's kind of debatable ig whether he created it or not
Click to expand...
That honestly seems like a cool visual effect made to go with the name of the move. Even then, it's not clear whether that galaxy was created or just shown in the background for the sake of it. If that is all there is to it for this feat, I would personally never have accepted it as legit. I am surprised it was even accepted and is on the profiles. How low are the standards for Beyblade?
 
The space was treated as a universe ig because of the first fight with Ryutaro:

The galaxies are definitely real, since Pegasus specifically flies through space in later seasons to travel to a galaxy for his special moves. It's just usually he doesn't create a galaxy in those moves, and he didn't create a galaxy with the same special move in Shogun Steel. But since the Bey can create the Pegasus constellation casually, and there are Beys with universes inside them in S1, it's debatable that Pegasus can make its own galaxy, especially when it has its own offshoot universe to itself as early as the S2 premiere.
 
Not sure what I am supposed to pay attention to in that video. Though anyway, you're right in that if nothing is directly suggesting it is real and he works with illusions, we should treat it like that.

I see. Creating constellations doesn't support creating galaxies and I don't know about Beys with universes inside them. But if we are using that video as proof that he created the galaxy, then we need to find something more concrete. Even if it is a real galaxy, I don't see any indication of Pegasus creating it. It could easily be shown in the background for visual aid to look cool since it goes with the attack name. For arguments that we don't see it before, it would be just camera angles and perspective. We don't see it afterwards either.
 
The Pisces video has some cosmic elements along the bottom of the screen that appear like stars. Maybe it's different in the sub, but good Metal Saga subs are so hard to track down.

Idk what to do with the galaxy feat, but at the very least they should be tier 4 due to constellation stuff, or maybe just removing the idea of Dark Wolf's dimension creation being an outlier and scaling to that.
 
JJSliderman said:
Well, the shot of Pegasus there is kind of from a different angle perspective than the galaxy shot, so it's possible that's why the galaxy isn't in view.
Click to expand...
That’s not the only time we don’t see it though. Like the entire time Pegasus and L-Drago travel into outer space, and fight in space before the special move is used, we so no Galaxy anywhere in the setting or general vicinity.

If there was a Galaxy already there, we would have seen it in view before that. Not just one appearing out of nowhere, and it isn’t a sudden coincidence that it appears right as Pegasus uses the attack.
JJSliderman said:
But since Pegasus can already casually create constellations I guess it's more acceptable to say he can make a galaxy. And the skepticism over the feat was moreso based on how every other time a galaxy is involved in a special move, the Bey just travels to a galaxy rather than creating one.
Click to expand...
This is because in those specific instances, all we see is Pegasus just traveling into space and continuing to fly into space instead of stopping to do something like it does here with Galaxy Nova.

For example, when Pegasus uses Stardust Driver, we see Pegasus only fly out into space until a Galaxy appears. And that’s easy to determine as not Galaxy creation since the Galaxy appeared in view just by Pegasus moving far away and fast enough for it to be in view. Which differs from Galaxy Novas case.

JJSliderman said:
I should also note that Galaxy Nova appears in Shogun Steel with no galaxy creation there, I'm not saying that invalidates the idea but eh.
Click to expand...
Simply using the power of said technique. Not really an issue. Beyblade has done that before, especially when the battle is on confined spaces. Stardust Driver was used in Metal Masters without Pegasus flying to another galaxy like it did in the battles with Julian and Damian. Doesn’t mean Pegasus doesn’t do that when doing the move.

Another example of a bey simply using the power of a move without all the effects is Damian and Hades Kerbecs. Kerbecs, who’s special move literally BRFs opponents into its own personal dimension, can be used as Kerbecs slamming into another opponent with high power just as Pegasus can.
JJSliderman said:
For Pisces, I'm not sure why he would use illusions for everything else, but make a real space to fight in, it seems sort of contradictory.
Click to expand...
Well, that was what I was going off of what was said. Especially since Gingka a second before said “these are not real flames” specifically.

That said, my main concern as far as this thread goes is the 3-C feat. We can chalk up Pisces feat as an illusion if everyone thinks that’s the case, since it scales to no one but Gingka rn anyway, but the Galaxy feat is what should still very much stay.
 
StrymULTRA said:
Uhm, you didn't...? Tho you sure there aren't at Gogo anime?
Click to expand...
I tried Gogo and not only is the site very difficult to use (because for me it buffers a lot, gives numerous ads and links just when trying to watch the episode), they don’t even have all the subbed episodes of the first season

Only up to ep 30, which doesn’t fit for our purposes here.
 
We still shouldn't use dub versions. If we cannot find subbed version on youtube, the best alternative is for someone to make gifs from a different site and upload it to imgur as we do for other verses.
 
AKM sama said:
We still shouldn't use dub versions. If we cannot find subbed version on youtube, the best alternative is for someone to make gifs from a different site and upload it to imgur as we do for other verses.
Click to expand...
Except there are next to no sites where the subbed episodes can be found. And if there, good luck to anyone who can find one that can watch them and has all the actual episodes too (unlike Gogo).
 
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