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Deoxys meteor: The revenge

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You thought that it ended for good? HAHAHAHAHAHAHA, no.

I saw this calc with the scans about the meteor actually busting the Planet even in manga, so I'd like to see if is usable even here or not.

Distance was taken from here

EDIT:
I made 2 versions of the calc as well, putting the planet busting as legit., choose one of them or the blog I linked:
 
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SamanPatou

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I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.
 
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I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.
Yeah, I needed an opinion on that too.
 
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Yeah honestly once the number gets checked I am completely in support of 5-A Ray and Mewtwo. But yeah rn numbers look solid so seems fair game
 
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I can't speak for the numbers, because they're not my field, but I have some issues with the scans.
The second scan isn't referring to the meteorite, the guy is speaking of Maxie who intended to cover the planet with magma, and nonetheless "reducing a planet to ashes" is still vague and may not be the literal polverization of the whole planet.
Even the third, "if there's not a world to dominate" can still apply to the annihilation of the surface.
Anyway, I'm neutral on the result and my comments are not intended the calc or something, just to point out that they aren't total evidences of the DBesque destruction of Earth.
Tho, a guy on Discord said this for ya

The second scan and the third scan go together. These are statements made after Blaise, Giovanni, and the others also become aware of Grand Meteor Delta's threat.

The second scan ties into the meteorite. They're talking about how it directly impacts their goals.

Blaise: “The one that said 'we will awaken Groudon and cover Hoenn... No, the entire world with boiling magma!”

Amber: ”...Yes, but you need a planet to that...”

They heavily imply here that it's the outright destruction of the planet and that they couldn't cover the world in anything if there wasn't a planet to do it to. Surface of the planet honestly doesn't make much sense over the literal destruction in this context. Giovanni's statement is just further support because they make it seem like the planet itself won't remain, not just the surface.
 
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Another one

Let me just put it like this. Surface busting realistically would not mean shit to Groudon (or Kyogre). It is literally known for the fact it created the land in Pokémon's world and has the ability to easily terraform the planet, something they reference in that panel even. They make the outright distinction that Team Magma wouldn't be able to do any of that without a planet to do it too. It should be very obvious just the type of destruction we're dealing with at this point.
 

SamanPatou

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I totally missed what the bald guy said, it makes more sense now. Atm I believe the total destruction of the planet may be legit, but I want see what others think. (and how the calc gets evaluated).
 
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Well, seems like that the planet being busted and not just the surface is generally accepted.

Now then, who's the Calcer who's gonna give an opinion on which Calc is valid?
 
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We have found more scans that the meteor was going to destroy the entire planet, not just surface area, and would like you to take a look at them. If you agree with the scans, should the original planet busting calc be accepted over the surface busting?
 

DemonGodMitchAubin

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Not gonna lie, those scans could still just be referring to the destruction of the surface alone

Honestly why not just make the meteorite Baseline 5-B and call it a day
 
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I have been summoned, what do I need to do?
Choose one of the 3 calcs
Not gonna lie, those scans could still just be referring to the destruction of the surface alone
As The Real Cal explained, you can't cover the Earth in magma if there's not a planet anymore, and even SamanPatou accepted such, aka it planet busting instead of just the surface is legit.
Honestly why not just make the meteorite Baseline 5-B and call it a day
Just no, it has evidence to be calculated at more than that lol.
 
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No offense but not a single one of those scans implies total planetary annihilation, at all.
They all just imply the planet is gonna be fucked up, which is what would happen if the planet was peeled like a orange with everything on it dying.

Johto is in the same country as Hoenn, so I have no idea why that scan is being used.

This also kinda ignores the issue that was there originally and none of those scans solves any of those issues.

Also, the meteor the primals blew up was demonstrably not even a fraction of a fraction of planet level, it being a hundreds times smaller doesnt matter when when the reason why the larger meteor is so dangerous has absolutely nothing to do with size but rather a psychic ayy lmao making it deadly, the meteor those two busted was just some fragments off the big one that was coming if memory serves.

Stick with the calc we had, it was fine then and it's fine now given none of the new information is enough to change it or even effect the issues it had originally.
 
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I mean, if the surface got nuked, Maxie/Archie can just recreate it with the legendaries, surface destruction means nothing to such.
 
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Another one

Let me just put it like this. Surface busting realistically would not mean shit to Groudon (or Kyogre). It is literally known for the fact it created the land in Pokémon's world and has the ability to easily terraform the planet, something they reference in that panel even. They make the outright distinction that Team Magma wouldn't be able to do any of that without a planet to do it too. It should be very obvious just the type of destruction we're dealing with at this point.
Out of context, they can do that yeah, over time, even if you want to say it wouldn't take that long at all (in the context of the manga though it's not a instant feat, takes them awhile, at least a few days). In the games it takes a long time as well, in fact the most we see in the games is half the region covered but planetary over time due to explicit statements. The quickest version we've ever seen of that is the generations episode, and the most we see is hoenn get covered within like a minute or two, which isnt exactly the whole planet.
And in the past? They fought for lengths of time, even while Primal, shit didnt fuck the planet up in a instant.
This is basically like saying that while someone can tear down a wall in the span of like a minute or two it's the same as a 16 wheeler truck plowing through said wall shattering it in a fraction of a second. End result is the same (on paper) but in action it aint at all.

It's not at all comparable to a giant meteor instantly ejecting like quarter of the planet's mass off it's surface into space in a instant upon impact.

Like it or not, we literally see the planet after impact with debris from the ejected mass floating around it because gravity is a thing. It's not the moon, it's ost certainly not another planet, and nothing is going to change this unless an actual quote comes to light that outright says the entire planet will be destroyed, and not just words that could mean entire antihalation, but also just surface.

I mean, if the surface got nuked, Maxie/Archie can just recreate it with the legendaries, surface destruction means nothing to such.

No they couldn't? Ignoring the fact both were dead and were running on fumes, of which wasn't even enough to make it to the end of the arc, meaning, they were quite literally not around to do that, hell I think they faded out of existence even. How can they remake anything if literally everyone and everything on the planet is dead? Groudon and Kyogre included? Because that would happen no matter what level of destruction we're talking about, hell even ignoring the fact a good chunk of the planet is straight up gone and the impact was said to kill everyone on the planet, the atmosphere is gone, no oxygen, immense amounts of radiation and so on, if the impact didn't kill just about everything, the cancer with asphyxiation would.
 
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Honestly, is the destruction more then just the surface?
Yes, I even said as much in the last thread, but was it the entire planet?
No, it wasn't then and it ain't now. A noticeable and demonstrable chunk of the planet survived the impact, this isn't exactly up for debate, I'd wager it was more then the surface sure, hell probably even the mantle, but the whole thing? Absolutely not, it's explicitly wrong.
 
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Don't take me wrong, I'm neutral, however I'd like to hear more opinions about this from the staff.
 
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Don't take me wrong, I'm neutral, however I'd like to hear more opinions about this from the staff.
It's literally your thread, and like the fourth one on this topic.
This isn't even a matter of opinion, I don't care if we wanna say it was MORE then surface busting, I don't care if we increase the speed of the ejected mass, I don't care if we even give it a higher distance ejected, that's all subjective and is open to interpretation. I'm just against saying it was a full planet bust because that's straight up false.

The matter of if it was a full planet bust? That isn't a matter of opinion, because we quite literally see the planet in the aftermath with the ejected debris floating around the planet like a saturn ring, it quite literally still existed after the impact, saying the whole planet went boom is outright lying.

Edit: And actually, the "turn the world to ash" line is counterintuitive, he's saying that he doesn't care if the planet gets turned to ash by some idiot but a meteor doing that? Is something he has qualms with.
But that's ignoring exactly what he's talking about, that being Maxie fucking the planet up with Groudon and turning it into molten slag and scorched beyond repair and livability. He's literally saying he doesnt care if Maxie turns the planet into a molten wasteland but a meteor doing that isn't ok.
 
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Mr._Bambu

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I mostly meant without calcs around them, like the pure scans. That said, that'll do, mostly interested in the bit where you claim the planet was literally still visible, as if this is the case, it makes this a very easy thread to deal with.
 
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In that particular scan that Chariot posted, it looks as if the Earth's structure as a whole would still end up intact instead of said structure being obliterated as a whole. Yes, it is possible for just the Earth's crust to be blown away while the planet itself as whole remains intact.

Bottom right panel of the scan btw.

There are a lot of factors that come into play when it comes to this specific calculation and whether said meteor would actually have enough kinetic energy to actually blow up the Earth entirely or not, starting with the meteor's size + whether the destruction of the Earth's surface (specifically the world) would still be enough for the planet to be obliterated, from the cast' pov.
 
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starting with the meteor's size

That's not inherently a issue, it's fueled and controlled by a psychic alien telekinetically so it gets a pass (it's like 160km long though if anyone is interested).

I'm just against it being treated as a full planet bust because it's visually not true, the very scene being calculated shows it to not be the case.
Everything else? That's open to interpretation and subjectivity so go wild.
 

Mr._Bambu

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I am inclined to agree that we're looking at a yet-undestroyed Earth, though like it isn't as clear cut as I would have liked.
 
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it's like 160km long though if anyone is interested
Is there not a different screen/panel of the meteor available other than the one that was posted?

I'm just checking if there is an altenate scene where the meteor (or a part of it) is shown that may contradict its calculated size.
 
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Is there not a different screen/panel of the meteor available other than the one that was posted?

I'm just checking if there is an altenate scene where the meteor (or a part of it) is shown that may contradict its calculated size.
Not really I don't think, the only other time we see it, it's absolutely fucking massive and can be seen from thousands of km away. The size is probably consistent all things considered. (At least in the manga, it changes drastically between media like the manga or games).

The size isn't the issue, and the size doesn't matter, it could be the size of a grain of sand, if the destruction we're shown from the impact is of a certain caliber, that's how strong the impact is as that's what we see and it being controlled telekinetically handwaves any kinetic and size discrepancy.
Only real issue here is that the planet visually still remained, thus treating it as a full planet bust is dishonest and we had three threads arguing this already, why we need a fourth I don't know but the current calc is fine imo. Anything higher based on total destruction is wrong.
 
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So in short the surface bust is still good to use over the total planet destruction.

Asking to close then.
 
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So in short the surface bust is still good to use over the total planet destruction.

Asking to close then.
I mean, you could probably get away with mantle destruction or some shit. If you really wanted you could take the size of the debris and use that as the depth of what got shaved off the planet.
As long as we don't say the whole planet got popped I'm fine with it, within reason with credence at least.
 
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I mean, you could probably get away with mantle destruction or some shit. If you really wanted you could take the size of the debris and use that as the depth of what got shaved off the planet.
As long as we don't say the whole planet got popped I'm fine with it, within reason with credence at least.
I'd keep the og Calc and call it a day
 

The_real_cal_howard

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You have to calculate destroying the surface to the point that magma can no longer be produced. Which is much deeper than the surface.
 
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You have to calculate destroying the surface to the point that magma can no longer be produced. Which is much deeper than the surface.
Not inherently true, if you're going by the line about covering the world in magma, I don't think I need to explain why it isn't as simple as you're insinuating, unless you actually need me to explain the multitude of reasons why they wouldn't be able to cover the world in magma.
Now do I disagree with it being deeper then a surface wipe? Not really but that line ain't the best reason why, one could always just like, scale the pieces of debris to get a depth?
 
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Not inherently true, if you're going by the line about covering the world in magma, I don't think I need to explain why it isn't as simple as you're insinuating, unless you actually need me to explain the multitude of reasons why they wouldn't be able to cover the world in magma.
Now do I disagree with it being deeper then a surface wipe? Not really but that line ain't the best reason why, one could always just like, scale the pieces of debris to get a depth?
One of my methods use debris tho
 
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One of my methods use debris tho
Yes, one of the calcs used the debris, but if I recall, not an average, and definitely not for the distance ejected which is why, if I recall, why we opted not to use that end, because the distance of all the ejected mass was different, or something like that.

You're gonna either have to stick with our safe end or redo it while taking into account everything that's been discussed thus far, which honestly, seems like a huge pain in the ass for whoever wants to go through that agonizing hell.
 
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Yes, one of the calcs used the debris, but if I recall, not an average, and definitely not for the distance ejected which is why, if I recall, why we opted not to use that end, because the distance of all the ejected mass was different, or something like that.
EEEEH??
I did both the average for both
You're gonna either have to stick with our safe end or redo it while taking into account everything that's been discussed thus far, which honestly, seems like a huge pain in the ass for whoever wants to go through that agonizing hell.
Well, if we can use the debris calc then fine, but even the safe end is good.
 
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Most meteors from outer space have a speed ranging between 11km/s and 72km/s. Here is a quote from this page, and the quotes that are relevant to this feat.
Meteoroids enter the earth’s atmosphere at very high speeds, ranging from 11 km/sec to 72 km/sec (25,000 mph to 160,000 mph)
From Section 12: How fast are meteorites traveling when they reach the ground? in the above link.

Here is another quote from the page, where meteors on a very large scale do not experience any form of slowdown when they reach the Earth's atmosphere.
On the very large end of the scale, a meteoroid of 1000 tons (9 x 10^5 kg) would retain about 70% of its cosmic velocity, and bodies of over 100,000 tons or so will cut through the atmosphere as if it were not even there. Luckily, such events are extraordinarily rare.

EDIT: This part of post removed because it is an arbitrary picture of Earth being shown in a panel without regarding how far the Earth is supposed to be in comparison to the meteor (if the meteor is supposed to take 10 days to hit Earth from that distance).
 
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Most meteors from outer space have a speed ranging between 11km/s and 72km/s. Here is a quote from this page, and the quotes that are relevant to this feat.

From Section 12: How fast are meteorites traveling when they reach the ground? in the above link.

Here is another quote from the page, where meteors on a very large scale do not experience any form of slowdown when they reach the Earth's atmosphere.


Now to figure out how big the meteor is.
From that distance, the meteor will take about 10 days before it hits. As for the page right after this one, it's just an imagined in-case scenario when the meteor hits, so it's an expectation of what the characters think it would happen. It is not something that has, or will happen the exact same way.

I'm talking about the exact page that the OP is using for his calculation.

By the way, in Chapter 21 on the Pokemon Special ORAS manga, the collision between Mega Rayquaza and the grand meteor itself happens very similarly compared to the original game(s), except that the manga does not do a very good job of portraying the meteor's actual size.

Bottom Line:
  • Angsize the distance between the panel and the Earth using this scan here, the location of where the meteor is.
  • After finding the distance, figure out how many seconds there are in 10 days.
    • (60 seconds) x (60 minutes) x (24 hours) x (10 days)
  • Figure out the size of the meteor, although you can figure it out again by scaling the meteor size here in comparison to the Earth. There are hardly other scans in the manga usable for figuring out the meteor's actual size.
  • Don't assume timeframes for meteor feats like these.
We are calculating the damage to the Earth tho, not the meteor itself
 
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I mean, that meteor was supernatural, not way it can damage the planet that bad with that size with the speed of regular meteor, the fact that it was powered from Deoxys invalidates any calc about The meteor itself, only The damage on The Planet can be calced
 
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We are calculating the damage to the Earth tho, not the meteor itself
You would still need to figure out how much damage it would do to the Earth (actually) if the meteor actually hits instead of assuming that the entire Earth would blow up, which it contradicts. Even in the scan where it assumes the damage of the meteor impact, much of the Earth's spherical structure is shown to still be remaining despite the damage from its supposed impact.

It does not matter if that meteor was supernatural or not, as the meteor has not directly displayed any other properties other than its large size.

I will, however, take the comment back about angsizing the distance from the Earth to the panel itself in that scan, as the artist drew the Earth and the meteor that way just to show that the meteor is heading towards the Earth without factoring in how fast the meteor would move to reach the Earth at that distance or anything like that.

Thus, the speed of meteors between 11km/s and 72km/s should be used, as these two numbers are a range for how fast meteors from outer space generally head towards Earth.

Bringing up the factors that the meteor was supernatural means you need to prove (via a scan) that Deoxys itself is actually accelerating the meteors to Earth quicker than normal (rather than just the meteor falling towards Earth). Otherwise, the things that are actually given in the feat (or variable that can be searched up online) need to be used.
 
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Did ya even check the calcs?
I'll check the calculations soon, although glaring issues are present the moment I checked those blogs. Those will be brought up in the next post.

It is also possible to find out how fast the meteor was falling from outer space if it was capable of annihilating the Earth's surface based on its size alone, although depending on the rules here regarding kinetic energy, I'm not really sure if I should bring it up.
 
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  • Blue line = 9.21px (found using Pythagorean theorem)
  • Yellow line = 5.66px (found using Pythagorean theorem)
  • Earth (big circle) = 1408px (size of the image)
Blue line is the length, and yellow line is the width of the meteor. The dimensions of the meteor are...
  • Earth = 1408px = 12742km
  • Length = (9.21px/1408px) x 12742km = 83.35km (axis A)
  • Width = (5.66px/1408px) x 12742km = 51.22km (axis B and C)
  • Volume of ellipse = 915,953 km^3, or 915,953,000,000,000 m^3
Used this website to find the volume
  • Density of meteor = (Google density of rock or something) in kg/m^3; using 3500kg/m^3 as an example.
  • Mass = Volume x Density = (915,953,000,000,000 m^3) x (3,500kg/m^3) = 3.206e18kg
  • Kinetic Energy = 0.5 x (Mass) x (Velocity^2)
  • Kinetic Energy (Low End; 11km/s) = 1.94e26 Joules, or 46.37 Petatons TNT.
  • Kinetic Energy (High End; 72km/s) = 8.31e27 Joules, or 1.986 Exatons TNT.

Just a sample calc, but even at realistic meteor speeds, a meteor of that size shown in the scan relative to Earth can pretty much break the Earth's surface.

It is the reason why you see the Earth's spherical structure mostly intact though, meaning that the meteor wiped out the world more than the planet itself.
 
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Shields, unfortunately, realistic meteor speeds don't apply here.
It's a telekinetically controlled meteor by a powerful psychic alien. It's trajectory, KE, speed and so on are all controlled by that thing and it can change at a whim, only thing that the meteor's realistic values would effect is simply how much the alien can move with his telekinetic power.
But speed doesn't actually matter, we're not calculating it's KE using a formula were speed has to be known, technically speaking, the meteor itself isn't even apart of the calc, it's the destruction afterward that's being calculated, we see the destruction of the Earth upon impact, that's the thing that's everyone is trying to calculate. Speed isn't a variable that has to be known because it could be 1kmph speed or 1000000000000000kmps, either or doesn't effect the result we see from it. Hell thinking on it, you could leave out the meteor aspect entirely and it wouldn't effect the calculation.

The speed though at the time was pretty fast, I forget the exact speed but they didn't really have much time (I think a week?) before impact and that was when it was unreasonably far away. When it was closing to impact time, they had to haul ass and get Rayquaza to fly up immediately.

It is the reason why you see the Earth's spherical structure mostly intact though, meaning that the meteor wiped out the world more than the planet itself.

That is true though, the planet did remain intact afterwards, it isn't a complete planet bust and I vehemently stand by that notion, saying anthing else is dishonest as we see the planet afterward, though as odd as it may sound, even a nonplanet bust can still be above planet level, which this one seems to be, the mass from impact and the speed and distance those debris travel can easily hit higher tiers even if the planet somehow remains intact, I can think of a few examples even outside of this, such as Kefka's continental raise feat somehow getting Large Planet level if memory serves.
 
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3.206e18kg

That's actually an upgrade to Deoxys' tk strength though. He's Unknown right now I think, that'd give him and anyone who can struggle or break free of his tk that lifting strength. Class P I think?
 
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Best thing we can do is calculating the LS and nuff else, however this is another topic, we should close this since this isn't going anywhere and the og calc is still good
 
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Are the rest of you fine with if I close this thread?
So, is it a surface bust or an actual planet bust?

Plus, I'd like to respond to Chariot's point about the speed of the meteor since it clearly matters despite this part of his post here.
It's a telekinetically controlled meteor by a powerful psychic alien. It's trajectory, KE, speed and so on are all controlled by that thing and it can change at a whim, only thing that the meteor's realistic values would effect is simply how much the alien can move with his telekinetic power.
All that I saw from that meteor feat was that it was just falling towards Earth, and will reach the Earth in 10 days.

Bringing up the point that its trajectory (not that it is even relevant since that it was aimed and headed directly towards Earth), KE, and speed being able to be controlled and how it affects the end result of the collision is are mostly just assumptions, and these are not mentioned, or these effects are directly seen any of the panels.

Show me a scan/panel where Deoxys is directly slowing down/speeding up the meteor that is heading towards the Earth please.
 
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Show me a scan/panel where Deoxys is directly slowing down/speeding up the meteor that is heading towards the Earth please.
That's asking a negative, meteor was clearly busted from Deoxys telekinetic powers.

Again, you're ignoring context to low-ball.
 

SamanPatou

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I remember a scene, from the games I think, where a scientist says that the meteor goes in an unnatural trajectory and speed or something like that, implying that it is due to Deoxys' influence.
 
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I remember a scene, from the games I think, where a scientists says that the meteor goes in an unnatural trajectory and speed or something like that, implying that it is due to Deoxys' influence.
Would the information from the games be applicable to what happened in the manga? I would think so since both the games and the manga are apparently canon to each other (and the manga could be an alternate interpretation of the story, possibly)

Anyways, StrymUltra posted the exact moment in the game where it did state that the meteor's trajectory changed. Can it be used for this specific feat though, and was the same thing stated in the manga?

The issue is that even in that timestamped scene in ORAS, it was merely stated that the meteor changed trajectory. Nothing was stated about the meteor was speeding up as it was heading towards Earth (unless you got a scan for it).
That's asking a negative, meteor was clearly busted from Deoxys telekinetic powers.
Are you sure?
Page 8-9. Page 10, Page 11, Page 12
After that, in triangle that was contained in the core of the meteor, Deoxys popped out.
 
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Would the information from the games be applicable to what happened in the manga? I would think so since both the games and the manga are apparently canon to each other (and the manga could be an alternate interpretation of the story, possibly)

Anyways, StrymUltra posted the exact moment in the game where it did state that the meteor's trajectory changed. Can it be used for this specific feat though, and was the same thing stated in the manga?

Are you sure?
Page 8-9. Page 10, Page 11, Page 12
After that, in triangle that was contained in the core of the meteor, Deoxys popped out.
...even in game that happened, so thanks to confirming my point
 

Antvasima

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If Strym is the only one who wants to close this thread, should I unfollow it, and let you figure things out on your own?
 
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I thought that in the manga, there was some sort of blast that came upwards, assisting the destruction of the meteor that Rayquaza rammed into?
It was just the effect to show the meteor being hit, nothing too different than regular manga effect.

Also you can see said "energy" in game too after Rayquaza, making it consistent to game showing
 
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I thought that in the manga, there was some sort of blast that came upwards, assisting the destruction of the meteor that Rayquaza rammed into?
The starters tried to help, though they weren't exactly needed, as in, that's literally it, they simply wanted to help but were explicitly not needed at all as it was made abundantly clear that Rayquaza, at least while Mega, can deal with it by himself (you could probabaly even argue for base, given he's around equal with Deoxys while in base, and Deoxys is doing this casually). (not to mention we arent scaling fucking starter pokemon to planet level or anywhere close, it'd be a hilarious outlier for any of them, even if all combined).

All that I saw from that meteor feat was that it was just falling towards Earth, and will reach the Earth in 10 days.

What? How do you miss the destruction in the immediate next panel?

Bringing up the point that its trajectory (not that it is even relevant since that it was aimed and headed directly towards Earth), KE, and speed being able to be controlled and how it affects the end result of the collision is are mostly just assumptions, and these are not mentioned, or these effects are directly seen any of the panels.

I dont think you understand, KE, size, mass, literally ALL of that is completely irrelevant. It quite literally doesn't matter, we see the impact, we see the destruction, ergo, we can calculate the destruction of the impact caused by the meteor.
And that's exactly what's being done. Trying to find the KE of the meteor and saying that's how strong it was is blatantly dishonest and false and is just as bad as trying to say it was a full planet bust, we see the destruction it caused, the meteor could be 1kg and moving at 1mps, it doesn't matter how much it weighs if the destruction we explicitly see says otherwise.
If you need an example, take Majora's Mask, a tiny moon moving very slowly, upon impact, annihilates the entire planet when really, it shouldn't even be able to take out a few city blocks, yet the destruction it caused is demonstrably and explicitly far above what it realistically should, why? Well it doesn't matter why , all that matters is that's what happened, but if you need a reason then it's because it was controlled by Deoxys and isn't natural.

Show me a scan/panel where Deoxys is directly slowing down/speeding up the meteor that is heading towards the Earth please.

Uh, that's the entire point? The fucker is literally moving it with his mind and can change it's trajectory on a whim, controlling its speed is quite literally bundled with that given he can stop it instantly, make it change directions, and then have it speed up again to where it can suddenly fuck the planet up beyond recognition. And, again, I don't think you understand, if you want me to blunt, your way of trying to calculate this is explicitly wrong.

We do not know the exact speed unfortunately, but what we do know is that the meteor is controlled entirely by Deoxys, we don't have a speed but we know it isn't natural and we know it can change at a whim. And we also know that the actual impact of the meteor is far, far, far above what you're trying to pass it off as.
Ergo, whatever you're trying to do with KE isn't gonna work because the KE of a meteor and treating it as natural doesn't line up with what we outright see occur.
It'd be like if someone had a gun and shot a bullet with telekinesis, and that bullet then proceeded to blow up a building, yes it's just a bullet being fired from a gun, but obviously we aren't going to use the KE to figure out how strong it was because we see it straight up take down a building in one blow, we'd calc the destruction of the building, you get me right?

This goes both ways Shields, even if it's not intentional, we shouldnt try and undersell a feat and ignore what's literally on panel in the same way plenty of people have tried to highball the feat while ignoring what we see on panel, we should just calc the destruction we see and call it a day, that's the only accurate way this feat can be calculated and anything else is blatant dishonesty.
 
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Majora's Mask, a tiny moon moving very slowly, upon impact, annihilates the entire planet when really
For the Majora's Mask example, we actually see a scene of it actually happening in the game, and it is actually questionable as to why you gave it a planet level rating when the description on your site states that it will wipe the "world and its inhabitants?"

Probably not the best example you could have brought up (because the calc linked there contradicts that rating and the planet is not really shown to be destroyed at all (just a big explosion happens from the impact and the screen fades to black)), so...

There were a lot of points you made there that are just straight up assumed that was not shown in that specific feat, however.

Not the changing of trajectory part (because Strym showed evidence), but the part where the meteor is able to speed up and/or slow down (and thus arbitrarily changing its kinetic energy) not because it was shown or stated anywhere in the manga but you just assumed that Deoxys (that was contained in the meteor) could?

again, I don't think you understand, if you want me to blunt, your way of trying to calculate this is explicitly wrong.
The calc that I did in the thread? The result obtained from the calc means that at low-end speed, it is very close to a surface bust, while at the high-end speed, it will annihilate the surface of the Earth entirely.

As a result? The results of the calc align with the aftermath of the meteor's supposed impact (supposed since it was a scene demonstrating what could happen if the meteor lands), with the spherical structure of the Earth still remaining, even if the surface of the Earth would end up being completely destroyed.

so you may want to check the results that were obtained in the calculations that the OP presented and see if the results actually make sense. You did agree that only the surface of the planet would have been destroyed and not the entire planet itself, yes?
 
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For the Majora's Mask example, we actually see a scene of it actually happening in the game, and it is actually questionable as to why you gave it a planet level rating when the description on your site states that it will wipe the "world and its inhabitants?"

Because Hyrule Historia and Majora's Mask 3D, scans should be on the profile. If not, well I'll look into getting them added.
Also not my point, my point was that a tiny ass moon moving like 3kmph somehow completely fucked everything and caused damage, far, far, far, far beyond what it should have, but it did cause that amount of damage and that was how powerful the moon drop was, even if the KE of it would imply otherwise due to outside factors. Same thing here, the KE of the meteor doesn't matter (and is subject to just assuming it's the same as a normal meteor even though we know that isn't the case and as such any discrepancy between is explained before it even becomes a issue).

robably not the best example you could have brought up (because the calc linked there contradicts that rating and the planet is not really shown to be destroyed at all (just a big explosion happens from the impact and the screen fades to black)), so...

Yes, a big explosion, the issue is that big explosion is of giant chunks of debris being ejected off the planet, which is what every has calculated this feat as.
The planet doesn't need to be fully destroyed for it to be above planet level, I know that sounds super fucked up, but it's true, if the planet's surface was launched at relavistic speeds, the impact is far beyond planet level, even if the planet somehow survived, and that's exactly what happened. We can't ignore the actual destruction here Shields, which is what you're doing. As odd as it may sound this isn't even uncommon, there's plenty of planet level feats that don't destroy the planet in full, simply tossing a large country worth of mass into space at rel speeds is beyond planet level for example, and Deoxys did it with the whole surface and then some.
Unless you're talking about Majora's Mask here, in which case, see above.

There were a lot of points you made there that are just straight up assumed that was not shown in that specific feat, however.

Literally nothing I said wasn't true. And I don't think you realize, you're not even calculating the feat dude, you're calculating the KE of a meteor that is completely irrelevant to the feat, because the feat is the impact.
As ironic as it is, you're doing far more assuming then anyone here.
You're acting like this meteor must be a normal meteor, it must behave like a normal meteor and as such the destruction and yield of the meteor must be akin to that as if it truly was one, even if it's demonstrably false.
Like it or not, it isn't a normal meteor it's explicitly and demonstrably not one in the slightest and the damage it caused is demonstrably and quantifiably far different then what your calc implies it to be.
Of course that doesn't mean anything by itself but when we literally see the meteor impact the planet and then giant enormous chunks of mass get sent into space at blatantly ludicrous speeds, trying to calculate the KE of the meteor and saying that's how strong it is outright wrong, calculate the damage it actually did upon impact. Anything else is blatant dishonesty.

Not the changing of trajectory part (because Strym showed evidence), but the part where the meteor is able to speed up and/or slow down (and thus arbitrarily changing its kinetic energy) not because it was shown or stated anywhere in the manga but you just assumed that Deoxys (that was contained in the meteor) could?

Uh, if the meteor suddenly stops, changes it's course, and then is suddenly moving fast again, that's literally Deoxys changing its speed. This really isn't something that should need to be explained.
There's a difference between assuming and Deoxys having to have literally done exactly that in order to change the trajectory.
Fuck, I don't know if you realize this but if Deoxys can change it's trajectory at all in the first place he can manually manipulate the speed and KE of the thing.
And why does Deoxys being contained in the meteor matter? We're outright told he's controlling, to such a point he's even gonna smack Giovanni point blank with the thing because fuck him in particular. Hell at one point it's even said the the meteor is Deoxys.
Also I don't know if you picked up on this but discussing the speed of the meteor is a complete waste of everyone's time, it doesn't matter, as said, it could literally being moving at on meter per hour, it doesn't matter, we see the impact so we know the yield.

>The calc that I did in the thread? The result obtained from the calc means that at low-end speed, it is very close to a surface bust, while at the high-end speed, it will annihilate the surface of the Earth entirely.

I'm aware of what you did and how you got it, I'm telling you it's blatantly wrong, rather, the math is correct, and under the assumption it's a normal meteor it would be correct. Basically the math and execution is all fine, what's wrong here is that simply doesn't apply. The way you're going about trying to calculate it is wrong, not the calc itself. Because reminder we see the impact of the meteor, and it's explicitly different then what you're trying to get from basic KE. And the worst part is, the impact panel is used NUMEROUS times, I'm not sure how you missed it but it's used almost every time they talk about the world getting fucked after the first time we see it.

As a result? The results of the calc align with the aftermath of the meteor's supposed impact (supposed since it was a scene demonstrating what could happen if the meteor lands), with the spherical structure of the Earth still remaining, even if the surface of the Earth would end up being completely destroyed.

it doesn't though, that's what you don't get, yes, but end up with earth's surface being fucked beyond repair, but even if both have similar results doesn't mean the actual thing that led to them was the same.
You're basically trying to say because your calc ends with the meteor's KE resulting in a surface wipe that it's accurate, but it isn't because it's the bare minimum and doesn't actually adhere to what we explicitly see occur. You're ignoring that we SEE the impact, multiple times, and the impact, while it does indeed result in a surface wipe of sorts, you're completely foregoing the fact that the surface was ejected thousands and thousands of km at incredible and ludicrous speeds, which is far beyond what you're insinuating and trying to pass it off as.

so you may want to check the results that were obtained in the calculations that the OP presented and see if the results actually make sense. You did agree that only the surface of the planet would have been destroyed and not the entire planet itself, yes?

I did, dude, I've been in EVERY one of these threads, I'm well aware of how each and every calc of this has been obtained. The results do make sense, it's your results that don't make sense why? Because like it or not, your calc is wrong, your calc would work ONLY if we didn't see the impact as well, but we do, and the impact dwarfs your result, ergo, we calc the impact of the meteor that we see because that's quite literally what would happen if it hit, your calc is a feasible hypothetical if all we got was the panel of the meteor coming towards Earth, but because we have a scan of the impact as well, it fails to be accurate because it's demonstrably inaccurate to what we see.

Yes, i do agree that the planet was fully destroyed, I've spent four threads sticking by that, we see the planet, or at least some of it, still in tact after the impact, thus, people trying to calculate the mass dispersal using the planet's full mass is wrong, because we outright see that isn't the case.
And it's for that same reason why I'm saying you calc doesnt work either, because it goes against what we explicitly see happen as well, just in a completely different way. Basically, we don't need a assumed impact yield of the meteor's assumed KE based on a completely unknown speed and KE formula when we outright see the impact and we can just calculate that instead and forego and alien variables and the like.


Your calc's math is fine and it would work under the circumstances that we didn't also see the impact.
But due to seeing the impact, we know exactly how strong it is based on that, thus skipping the need for trying to guess how fast it was moving, a need for the mass, the need for anything, because at the end of the day, we know and see what it did. Trying to calculate it any other way is blatantly wrong.


And a few more.

See that? That panel is why your calc can't be used and is inaccurate, while both this and your calc end up with a similar result in that being a surface wipe, the actual SURFACE WIPE itself that occurred is drastically different.

If you want to take a shot at calcing this panel though, that's another story altogether, as long as you're reasonable about it and don't try to undersell it or make ridiculously high assumptions to get a high result we should be good.
 
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Because Hyrule Historia and Majora's Mask 3D, scans should be on the profile. If not, well I'll look into getting them added.
Also not my point, my point was that a tiny ass moon moving like 3kmph somehow completely fucked everything and caused damage, far, far, far, far beyond what it should have, but it did cause that amount of damage and that was how powerful the moon drop was, even if the KE of it would imply otherwise due to outside factors. Same thing here, the KE of the meteor doesn't matter (and is subject to just assuming it's the same as a normal meteor even though we know that isn't the case and as such any discrepancy between is explained before it even becomes a issue).



Yes, a big explosion, the issue is that big explosion is of giant chunks of debris being ejected off the planet, which is what every has calculated this feat as.
The planet doesn't need to be fully destroyed for it to be above planet level, I know that sounds super fucked up, but it's true, if the planet's surface was launched at relavistic speeds, the impact is far beyond planet level, even if the planet somehow survived, and that's exactly what happened. We can't ignore the actual destruction here Shields, which is what you're doing. As odd as it may sound this isn't even uncommon, there's plenty of planet level feats that don't destroy the planet in full, simply tossing a large country worth of mass into space at rel speeds is beyond planet level for example, and Deoxys did it with the whole surface and then some.
Unless you're talking about Majora's Mask here, in which case, see above.



Literally nothing I said wasn't true. And I don't think you realize, you're not even calculating the feat dude, you're calculating the KE of a meteor that is completely irrelevant to the feat, because the feat is the impact.
As ironic as it is, you're doing far more assuming then anyone here.
You're acting like this meteor must be a normal meteor, it must behave like a normal meteor and as such the destruction and yield of the meteor must be akin to that as if it truly was one, even if it's demonstrably false.
Like it or not, it isn't a normal meteor it's explicitly and demonstrably not one in the slightest and the damage it caused is demonstrably and quantifiably far different then what your calc implies it to be.
Of course that doesn't mean anything by itself but when we literally see the meteor impact the planet and then giant enormous chunks of mass get sent into space at blatantly ludicrous speeds, trying to calculate the KE of the meteor and saying that's how strong it is outright wrong, calculate the damage it actually did upon impact. Anything else is blatant dishonesty.



Uh, if the meteor suddenly stops, changes it's course, and then is suddenly moving fast again, that's literally Deoxys changing its speed. This really isn't something that should need to be explained.
There's a difference between assuming and Deoxys having to have literally done exactly that in order to change the trajectory.
Fuck, I don't know if you realize this but if Deoxys can change it's trajectory at all in the first place he can manually manipulate the speed and KE of the thing.
And why does Deoxys being contained in the meteor matter? We're outright told he's controlling, to such a point he's even gonna smack Giovanni point blank with the thing because fuck him in particular. Hell at one point it's even said the the meteor is Deoxys.
Also I don't know if you picked up on this but discussing the speed of the meteor is a complete waste of everyone's time, it doesn't matter, as said, it could literally being moving at on meter per hour, it doesn't matter, we see the impact so we know the yield.

>The calc that I did in the thread? The result obtained from the calc means that at low-end speed, it is very close to a surface bust, while at the high-end speed, it will annihilate the surface of the Earth entirely.

I'm aware of what you did and how you got it, I'm telling you it's blatantly wrong, rather, the math is correct, and under the assumption it's a normal meteor it would be correct. Basically the math and execution is all fine, what's wrong here is that simply doesn't apply. The way you're going about trying to calculate it is wrong, not the calc itself. Because reminder we see the impact of the meteor, and it's explicitly different then what you're trying to get from basic KE. And the worst part is, the impact panel is used NUMEROUS times, I'm not sure how you missed it but it's used almost every time they talk about the world getting fucked after the first time we see it.



it doesn't though, that's what you don't get, yes, but end up with earth's surface being fucked beyond repair, but even if both have similar results doesn't mean the actual thing that led to them was the same.
You're basically trying to say because your calc ends with the meteor's KE resulting in a surface wipe that it's accurate, but it isn't because it's the bare minimum and doesn't actually adhere to what we explicitly see occur. You're ignoring that we SEE the impact, multiple times, and the impact, while it does indeed result in a surface wipe of sorts, you're completely foregoing the fact that the surface was ejected thousands and thousands of km at incredible and ludicrous speeds, which is far beyond what you're insinuating and trying to pass it off as.



I did, dude, I've been in EVERY one of these threads, I'm well aware of how each and every calc of this has been obtained. The results do make sense, it's your results that don't make sense why? Because like it or not, your calc is wrong, your calc would work ONLY if we didn't see the impact as well, but we do, and the impact dwarfs your result, ergo, we calc the impact of the meteor that we see because that's quite literally what would happen if it hit, your calc is a feasible hypothetical if all we got was the panel of the meteor coming towards Earth, but because we have a scan of the impact as well, it fails to be accurate because it's demonstrably inaccurate to what we see.

Yes, i do agree that the planet was fully destroyed, I've spent four threads sticking by that, we see the planet, or at least some of it, still in tact after the impact, thus, people trying to calculate the mass dispersal using the planet's full mass is wrong, because we outright see that isn't the case.
And it's for that same reason why I'm saying you calc doesnt work either, because it goes against what we explicitly see happen as well, just in a completely different way. Basically, we don't need a assumed impact yield of the meteor's assumed KE based on a completely unknown speed and KE formula when we outright see the impact and we can just calculate that instead and forego and alien variables and the like.


Your calc's math is fine and it would work under the circumstances that we didn't also see the impact.
But due to seeing the impact, we know exactly how strong it is based on that, thus skipping the need for trying to guess how fast it was moving, a need for the mass, the need for anything, because at the end of the day, we know and see what it did. Trying to calculate it any other way is blatantly wrong.


And a few more.

See that? That panel is why your calc can't be used and is inaccurate, while both this and your calc end up with a similar result in that being a surface wipe, the actual SURFACE WIPE itself that occurred is drastically different.

If you want to take a shot at calcing this panel though, that's another story altogether, as long as you're reasonable about it and don't try to undersell it or make ridiculously high assumptions to get a high result we should be good.
Can we just close this thing?
 
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I have zero qualms with that, literally nothing has changed.
The calc being used based upon the impact panel is fine and good, it takes into account the aftermath we see as well and so on and so forth. i don't see us getting a more accurate calc and if we do, it's only gonna be negligible at best.

Though you may as well make a thread for Deoxys' TK strength and those that scale, pretty sure the meteor weighs enough to give him and friends Class P, it's straightforward and isn't subject to all these variants that have made this feat such an issue to figure out, it's literally just "this weighs this much, he can move that, Class P".
 
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