Glyph Creation Revision

[Antvasima]

@AKM sama are you willing to help us out here?

 

[Mr. Bambu]

As I see it, the only difference between forcefield creation and glyph creation is that glyph creation seems to be exclusively for those intended for mobility. It just tells us an application of their ability. The presence of mystical markings doesn't really matter so much as the intent of the "forcefield" created.

Removing the ability seems like it would only lessen the descriptions of abilities, no? I don't think it's inherently doing any harm.

 

[Wokistan]

You're already supposed to describe the applications of given abilities. The name is also misleading. We've already had cases of confusion where people put it for magic runes and stuff because they're glyphs, and the name itself is really non indicative. What about "glyph creation" would immediately lead someone to understand the general gist of what's meant by the power without clicking on to the page? It's redundant and causes confusion as well as not even helping in being descriptive.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

You're already supposed to describe the applications of given abilities. The name is also misleading. We've already had cases of confusion where people put it for magic runes and stuff because they're glyphs, and the name itself is really non indicative. What about "glyph creation" would immediately lead someone to understand the general gist of what's meant by the power without clicking on to the page? It's redundant and causes confusion as well as not even helping in being descriptive.

I suppose a better way to put it is like this: if you click the link, it is more helpful than just leaving the ability undescribed. You should have enough experience to know many profiles lack in-depth descriptions- or, lack descriptions for all abilities. Sure, the name sucks, I just think the page itself doesn't need deleting.

 

[Wokistan]

That doesn't address the name being actively misleading though. Deleting the page removes a redundant page and a page that sounds like it includes stuff that it does not. It'snot just redundant, but causing problems itself, putting its merit into a net negative.

 

[Agnaa]

Couldn't I just take this as Bambu voting for a rename, and Wokistan voting for deletion?

 

[Bobsican]

I also support deletion, if that wasn't clear, by the way.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

Couldn't I just take this as Bambu voting for a rename, and Wokistan voting for deletion?

Aye. On my end, at least. If something must be done, just slap a name on it. I don't think it's really that big of a deal.

 

[Agnaa]

These are my approximations by seeing people's posts thus far and may be slightly off:

Delete: 3 (Wokistan, Bobsican, Ionliosite)

Rename: 5 (Mr. Bambu, SomebodyData, Antvasima, AKM Sama, Agnaa)

Either of the Above: 4 (Antoniofer, Damage3245, YuriAkuto, Elizhaa)

Do Nothing: 0

 

[Bobsican]

I guess it would be a good idea to contact even more staff members, I would recommend Content Moderators as proper power indexing is in their area of knownoledge.

 

[SomebodyData]

I don't see why we can't just rename it to platform creation? Seems unnecessary to delete it.

 

[Wokistan]

Because platform creation still just kinda doesn't have a reason to exist independent of normal creation. It's really more an application of powers, and a variety of powers at that, than a power itself.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm not sure how many creation users exist that can create platforms in the way we're describing, usually, I see platform creation done by characters without regular creation. Maybe the GL Corps and their emotional counterparts? Other than that, I can think of more characters that can do platform creation but not creation.

 

[Agnaa]

There are 55 pages with the Glyph Creation and Creation user categories. There are 161 pages that link to Glyph Creation. So only about a third of the characters with Glyph Creatin also have Creation.

 

[Antvasima]

For the record, I think that it seems better to delete the page at this point, as long as somebody is willing to remove all of the links to it, given that there appear to be lots of character profiles that link to it without actually using the powers described in the relevant page.

@Promestein @DontTalkDT @AKM sama

What do you think?

 

[AKM sama]

I'm more on the side of treating Glyph Creation as just another application of Forcefield Creation. So just adding its content on the Forcefield Creation page and deleting it might do the trick. Although, if people think that this particular application is significant enough to deserve its own separate page, then I think renaming to Platform Creation might also work. I don't have strong views on either side.

 

[SomebodyData]

I'm pretty sure that most people who have platform creation can't create forcefields.

@Antvasima I'm willing to go over and see how many pages actually use it as platforms (after all, it's only 161 pages in total) as well change the page to platform creation.

 

[Elizhaa]

So, to be certain, all Glyph

These are my approximations by seeing people's posts thus far and may be slightly off:

Delete: 2 (Bobsican, Wokistan)

Rename: 3 (Mr. Bambu, SomebodyData, Antvasima)

Either of the Above: 5 (Agnaa, Antoniofer, Ionliosite, Damage3245, YuriAkuto)

Do Nothing: 0

Honestly, I am fine with the "Either of the Above" option. I can help with edits when the conclusion is made.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I'm pretty sure that most people who have platform creation can't create forcefields.

@Antvasima I'm willing to go over and see how many pages actually use it as platforms (after all, it's only 161 pages in total) as well change the page to platform creation.

This is sorta where I'm at, too. While, yes, glyph creation is a platform made from force, the Forcefield Creation page isn't really made to include that. Glyph Creation is a unique enough application of it to be considered a separate thing.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, the problem is that it seems like many of the pages that link to glyph creation do not feature characters that have the ability to use it to create platforms. They simply use glyphs in conjunction with different types of magic, which makes it extremely time -consuming to evaluate 161 unfamiliar character pages indepth in order to properly figure out what should be done in every single case.

 

[Tllmbrg]

I mean you'd rather the problem devolve further?
I think it's smarter handling it now so in general we won't have people try adding other uber specific powers to the wiki ala Superpowers Wiki style y'know?

We can make this a mini project and split the load between users we trust and staff members alongside knowledgable people about each page

 

[Antvasima]

I meant that renaming the page may not be a practical solution, rather than deleting it and removing the links, in lack of better options.

There would still be lots of work to do though.

 

[Tllmbrg]

If either way we get ton of work, might as well delete it so we'll show that we don't approve uber specific power pages unless the application is wide spread enough

 

[Eficiente]

I agree with everything here, seemingly minor things like this can cause a lot of inconveniences and should not be taken for granted.

 

[SomebodyData]

If you guys have an issue with revising the 161 pages, that's not an issue. I'm planning on doing a mass revision for PMMM soon anyways, I'll just add that to what I have to edit. Unless the characters have very apparent showings of platform creation, I'd delete it and have people do CRTs to add it later.

@Tllmbrg Gylph Creation / Platform Creation has about 161 profiles connected to it- I would say that's pretty widespread.

 

[Tllmbrg]

161 doesn’t seem enough imo, maybe if it 300 then I’d say it was wide spread

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I will say that I know of at least one profile that needs it added (Mystra) and know that many future ones from D&D would have the application.

 

[SomebodyData]

That's more than Vector Manipulation and pretty close (given how 'young' the page is) to Physics Manipulation and Corrosion Inducement with the sentiment from this thread that more profiles will be joining the Platform creation ranks.

 

[Antvasima]

So have we reached a conclusion to delete the page, or do we need more discussion first?

 

[SomebodyData]

Deleting the page will require the deletion of profiles also not that big (Vector Manip, Physics Manip, Corrosion Inducement, etc), I think just renaming it and allowing me to remove the ability from profiles that don't have profile creation is just the easiest answer.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. Alternately, we could expand on the meaning and explanation in the page to glyph magic in general, as that is likely what it has been used for already.

 

[Tllmbrg]

That's more than Vector Manipulation and pretty close (given how 'young' the page is) to Physics Manipulation and Corrosion Inducement with the sentiment from this thread that more profiles will be joining the Platform creation ranks.

Vector Manipulation is an actually unique power tho, rather then a specific application of another and same with Physics
Corrosion Inducement should honestly just replace Acid Manipulation in general since the latter will always result in the former

 

[SomebodyData]

@Tllmbrg I think we've already brought up how most characters who have platform creation don't use it as an application of another ability.

@Antvasima we could, but I think more people would prefer platform creation.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay then. However, again, this would require quite a lot of work.

 

[Bobsican]

Many already agreed on the page being removed, it holds little more purpose than pure aestetic, and even if we turn it so it practically is just "Platform Creation", the name will be misleading as many will think from the name it just involves summoning some fancy symbols while doing any action whatsoever (hint, that's the case right now), which is not something that we should want as a power page, it's not something that can be generalized for a practical use beyond what the Magic page already covers.

So I would recommend just deleting the page and removing it from profiles, then we can just decide if a new "Platform Creation" power page is really needed for indexing purposes. Manually trying to filter it from pages as so only those with "actual" Platform Creation keep it would take far more work than just doing the former option.

 

[Agnaa]

idk why we'd delete it then decide if a platform creation page is needed, shouldn't we just rename it?

 

[Bobsican]

Doing that would leave more work to do to keep the pages consistent than just removing it then "readding" the new power to the pages that actually fit it.
Many pages can have "Via X" with no further elaboration that someone not into the series is going to get if it belongs to Platform Creation or not, and while such cases can just be removed, way more work than just removing it from all pages then making a new power from scratch could happen in paper.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not mind a rename, as long as the following work is properly handled.

 

[Agnaa]

I don't think renaming it is less work. It sounds like more work if profiles then have to be revised to add it again, with their knowledgeable members contacted.

 

[Bobsican]

Well, as this is going to be done manually anyways, that option can work as well either way.
However, I don't think a Platform Creation page is really needed, not only it intersects too much with Forcefield Creation, all cases where it doesn't match can just go as "Creation (Can create X to use it as a platform)", if anything, as a sort of Creation power page that goes specifically for platforms seems rather unecessary for indexing purposes.
This is like just giving a power page for a technique of using another power, with this technique being something that isn't actually a power beyond the acrobatical capability of the user (In this case, using whatever is created as a platform) for using it in the way the page would describe, however, this isn't necessarily bad if it's deemed to be the case, then again, so I'm somewhat neutral (Albeit leaning a bit to a no) on regards of such page being around.