Is this outer?

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Law Manipulation and Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2. Every ancient magic manipulates some fundamental abstract concept, they control the core elements that govern the laws of the world, can influence and alter the fundamental laws of the universe, as they are the underlying principles that gover the very universe, and concept magic which uses the power of ancient magic can rewrite the laws of reality.

Through understanding universal principles, magicians could manipulate those concepts(Time, Space, Gravity, Soul, Matter and Info)


It's also possible for them to "deepen the essence" and transcend those principles

The lowest rank was the third rank, then the second rank, the first rank, and then the top was the special rank technique user.

The third rank was those who could use even one age of god magic. It was the line when someone got recognized as a law technique user.

From there they became second rank when they could use multiple age of god magic, first rank if they could reach even one of the essences of age of god magic, and special rank if they could deepen the essence even further, or perhaps being able to use multiple. Ch 551

Their side could meddle with the underlying principles of the cosmos, not only that, even transcending the underlying principles of cosmos was within their reach. But even with such power, they might be defeated against this powerful enemy if they let their guard down. Ch 550

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

No it is not.

 

[AyOgUyS]

Through understanding universal principles, magicians could manipulate those concepts(Time, Space, Gravity, Soul, Matter and Info)

Isn't this just the manipulation of metaphysical aspects rather than an ontologically transcendent state of existence?

It's also possible for them to "deepen the essence" and transcend those principles

Both of those phrases are vague and do not neccesarily indicate a fundamentally greater existence.

 

[AyOgUyS]

It's not about transcending them, but reaching/manipulating a higher concepts/realms that transcend those principles.

What does "transcend those principles" even mean? I think there is more context here that might not have been explained.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What does "transcend those principles" even mean? I think there is more context here that might not have been explained.

I just highlighted that part in the Law/CM justification

 

[AyOgUyS]

It looks like greater manipulation of metaphysical aspects to me. I don't think any of the scans in the OP indicate a higher ontological state of existence.

 

[BoastJr]

Scales to 11-C

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

What if the universal concepts are dependent on said transcendent concept?

 

[StrikingMosquito245]

Could you clarify in which sense they’re dependent? "Dependent" is pretty broad — it could be just as broad as the word "transcends," so it’s hard to get a clear reading without more context imo.

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

Could you clarify in which sense they’re dependent? "Dependent" is pretty broad — it could be just as broad as the word "transcends," so it’s hard to get a clear reading without more context imo.

There exist a higher conceptual world, which they refer to it as Root/Origin World. It transcend all principles.
Now, taking into consideration the possible existence of a higher foundational concept, "deepen the essence" and "transcend" in this context mean reaching that higher World. No?

 

[BoastJr]

I can only give it 4-D at best

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

No. You'll need the concepts to be type 1 minimum to get even L1-A.
Type 2 usually just scales to cosmology

 

[EL_xWatcher1234x]

No. You'll need the concepts to be type 1 minimum to get even L1-A.
Type 2 usually just scales to cosmology

Not according to Ultima. Axis or dimensions are governed by the concepts of space and time in the verse.

And whatever is the source of those universal concepts, it's pretty clear that it exist beyond all of them and is not dependent on the universe. Plus there is no proof that the universal concepts are dependent on the universe to begin with, but they are dependent on the "core".


If they have statment of transcending universal principle what elese do they need to get outerversal range?

 

[Astral_Trinity439]

Not according to Ultima. Axis or dimensions are governed by the concepts of space and time in the verse.

That is for dimensions, not space-time.

1-A / High 1-A / Tier 0 Revisions Hub

Does someone remember where we agreed to place "controlling/embodying all concepts"? I mean in the case where concepts refer to something like universals, to be clear. (Since I know we use the term loosely) Just thinking about what to do with the more powerful concept manipulators :unsure...

vsbattles.com

And whatever is the source of those universal concepts, it's pretty clear that it exist beyond all of them and is not dependent on the universe.

You should get them to type 1 first, then.

If they have statment of transcending universal principle what elese do they need to get outerversal range?

so long as they are type 1, and are the "what-ness" of the particular they govern (need to be proven as not all concepts behave like this), transcending them would be 1-A.

But again normally type 1 aren't like that. Hmm, I guess an example for L1-A or 1-A concepts is LOTM?
@SuperNova55555 Come here femboy

 

[Hecky2222]

There is no major difference between spacetime and dimensions concept, whatsoever.

But concept here is Type 2 meaning it gets destroyed when object it governs is. So you have to argue how universe is 1-A(making everyone for no reason 1-A) to prove 1-A Concepts otherwise I don't see sufficient justification for independence