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Palpatine vs Kharn
- Thread starter PaChi2
- Start date
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So....
I believe Sidious might be stronger here.
Rest I need to think about.
I believe Sidious might be stronger here.
Rest I need to think about.
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I feel a fair amount of Palpy's hax gets nulled pretty easily, though certain stuff like Lightning, Telekinesis and maybe Precognition will still be there. Sidious probably has an AP edge (required every Jedi in 25,000 years to stop him, thus putting him above the Valley of Jedi and Hero of Tython). So i could see Palps having an AP edge here unless Khorn's a real dog and negs the Force for some reason. For now i'd vote inconclusive since i need more research to come to a conclusion.
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Palpatine is Muuuuuch stronger then his previous form which is above Yoda, who is immensely above people like Arcann who beats back 2 4Bs at once
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Lightning, Telekinesis and Precog are all getting negged by Khorne. Psykers in 40k can do all of those things (arguably better than force users too) and they all get negged. As for AP, Kharn has feats from somewhat above baseline all the way up to nearly 4-A. Plus I doubt Sidious is even going to be able to hit Kharn in CQC given the massive skill gap here.
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<Nearly 4A
The Abaddon fight is an outlier.
Also, what skill Gap?
The Abaddon fight is an outlier.
Also, what skill Gap?
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And it's true, he got one lucky hit the fracked his armor, but Abbadon was barely hurt by him, and Kharn was getting stomped by a casual Abbadon.
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Yeah i'm not trying to say the Abaddon feat isn't an outlier lol. He killed Saint Celestine on one occasion also who has a similar outlier-ish feat vs Abaddon. Other than those 2 he has like the 2 kilofoe feat from fighting the solar system sized greater daemons. So like I said he has feats that range from somewhat above baseline to nearly 4-A.
Also are you seriously trying to imply Palp is just as skilled as Kharn in CQC? I would like to know the justification for that.
Also are you seriously trying to imply Palp is just as skilled as Kharn in CQC? I would like to know the justification for that.
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Then Palpatine is stronger by virtue of being laughably above a good dozen of 4Bs who are in the Kilofoe IIRC
Palpatine is far more skilled then the combined might of 25,000 years of the Jedi Order, and is much superior to people who have been around for thousands of years albeit not as much as Kharn
I also don't get why telikinetic stuff like a ******* Force Push of all things would get negated.
Palpatine is far more skilled then the combined might of 25,000 years of the Jedi Order, and is much superior to people who have been around for thousands of years albeit not as much as Kharn
I also don't get why telikinetic stuff like a ******* Force Push of all things would get negated.
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> Abaddon
> Outlier
> Kharn did nothing of note at all
> Outlier
> Kharn did nothing of note at all
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Let me reiterate
Him damaging Abaddon briefly is an outlier
Him damaging Abaddon briefly is an outlier
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It isn't, because he didn't even do anything of nte. That's like saying the Kages are 7-A because they land brief hits on Edo Madara.
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...............Kepekley23 said:
I concede with this logic.
Tho I don't know why the feat is on his page.
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Being stronger than something is NOT the same as being more skillful than something. Especially in a verse like 40k where even basic space marines are CQC and tactical combat geniuses. I'd argue that the average Marine is actually smarter than the average Jedi anyway. I'm going to give some quotes of Marine intelligence just as an example.
-A Marine is able to assess the strengths and weaknesses of 6 enemies in less than a few heart beats
His battle-hardened mind assessed the relative strengths and weakness of the six soldiers without conscious thought: armament, distance, levels of combat effectiveness, routes of attack and escape calculated in less than a few panicked beatings of their hearts.
-Imperial Armor Vol 9 Page 46
-A Traitor Marine is able to analyze an entire battle just by glancing at a scanner
Barsabbas counted the numbers with a cursory auspex sweep. He calculated the readout in his head, subtracting an estimation of noncombatant families and livestock signatures. The total, even with a generous estimate, would be no more than twenty thousand fighters. Twenty thousand men would amount to little more than a speed bump against a well drilled company of Chaos Space Marines.
-Blood Gorgons Page 95
-It takes a nano-second for a Traitor Astartes to process an opponent
The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.
Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.
He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.
All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.
-Dawn Of War Omnibus Page 258
Each of these guys above is utter trash to Kharn.
Most of that Jedi order is full of fodder though also again is Palps more skilled then ALL of them put together or is he just stronger than any one of them? Kharn was considered one of the best amongst his peers even before he had fought constantly for over 10,000 years against a variety of enemies including fighting literal demons in hell. Plus Kharn has fought many enemies that are similar to Sidious (I.e. Psykers) but Sidious has very little if any experience fighting anything like Kharn. And on top of that Sidious had all of his force powers when he was being compared to those Jedi, they are getting negged here. He's going to have to rely on CQC. So yeah just going to go ahead and say that Kharn absolutely flattens Sidious in CQC.
As for your statement about Telekinesis that's already a psyker power in universe that Khorne negs. So you'll have to come up with some explanation as for why Khorne wouldn't neg an exactly identical force power for some reason.
-A Marine is able to assess the strengths and weaknesses of 6 enemies in less than a few heart beats
His battle-hardened mind assessed the relative strengths and weakness of the six soldiers without conscious thought: armament, distance, levels of combat effectiveness, routes of attack and escape calculated in less than a few panicked beatings of their hearts.
-Imperial Armor Vol 9 Page 46
-A Traitor Marine is able to analyze an entire battle just by glancing at a scanner
Barsabbas counted the numbers with a cursory auspex sweep. He calculated the readout in his head, subtracting an estimation of noncombatant families and livestock signatures. The total, even with a generous estimate, would be no more than twenty thousand fighters. Twenty thousand men would amount to little more than a speed bump against a well drilled company of Chaos Space Marines.
-Blood Gorgons Page 95
-It takes a nano-second for a Traitor Astartes to process an opponent
The Word Bearer is almost unrecognisable. For a nanosecond, the figure registers to Luciel as an unknown, a threat.
Transhuman responses are already there, unbidden. Adrenaline spikes to heighten an already formidable reaction time. Muscle remembers. Luciel wears his boltgun, an oiled black pit bull of a weapon, in his thigh holster. He can draw, aim and fire in less than a second. The range is six metres, the target unobstructed. There is no chance of missing. Maximus plate, frontally augmented, might stop a mass-reactive shell, so Luciel will fire two and aim for the visor slits. The airgate skin-sleeve is self-repairing, and will survive las-fire damage, but a bolter shot will shred it open, so Luciel also braces for the explosive decompression of a ricochet or a miss-hit. At a simple, subconscious neural urge, boot-sole electromagnets charge to clamp onto the deck plates.
He can make a clean kill headshot in less than a second and a half, two rounds for kill insurance, and probably protect the atmospheric integrity of the airgate.
All this, all this decided, unbidden, instinctive, in less than a nanosecond.
-Dawn Of War Omnibus Page 258
Each of these guys above is utter trash to Kharn.
Most of that Jedi order is full of fodder though also again is Palps more skilled then ALL of them put together or is he just stronger than any one of them? Kharn was considered one of the best amongst his peers even before he had fought constantly for over 10,000 years against a variety of enemies including fighting literal demons in hell. Plus Kharn has fought many enemies that are similar to Sidious (I.e. Psykers) but Sidious has very little if any experience fighting anything like Kharn. And on top of that Sidious had all of his force powers when he was being compared to those Jedi, they are getting negged here. He's going to have to rely on CQC. So yeah just going to go ahead and say that Kharn absolutely flattens Sidious in CQC.
As for your statement about Telekinesis that's already a psyker power in universe that Khorne negs. So you'll have to come up with some explanation as for why Khorne wouldn't neg an exactly identical force power for some reason.
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Palpatine wins through sheer power.
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I dunno if that's actually true or if it's sarcasm, I'm actually in the middle here...Matthew Schroeder said:
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Telekinesis wouldn't be negated. People think Khorne doesn't accept anything but sheer strength when there are Khornate Sorcerers. Magical abilities are 100% allowed if offensive. What Khorne doesn't like is stuff that would make a 7-B beat Khârn.
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THAAAAAAAAAAANNNNNK YOOOOOUUUUUU
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Palpatine had mind hax hundreds of quadrillions, as shown he can mind hax the SW Galaxy.
Sidious defense is powerful enough to block attacks that can consumes and destroy absolutely everything, as shown he did that with Force Storms, when transporting Luke and entire fleets with Force defense. Yeah, Kharn isn't going to break his virtually indestrucible Force defense.
Also, which Palpatine is this? Dark Empire or before his death above Endor.
Sidious defense is powerful enough to block attacks that can consumes and destroy absolutely everything, as shown he did that with Force Storms, when transporting Luke and entire fleets with Force defense. Yeah, Kharn isn't going to break his virtually indestrucible Force defense.
Also, which Palpatine is this? Dark Empire or before his death above Endor.
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Yeah, Palpatine takes this one. I really only came here because I saw people saying Abaddon vs. Kharn was an outlier, which is BS.
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Okay, I officially say that Abaddon vs Kharn is not an outlier
But it isn't a feat either, Kharn does not scale AP wise
But it isn't a feat either, Kharn does not scale AP wise
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When has a Khornate Sorcerer ever used their powers for anything other than negating other powers?
Afaik that's the only time followers of Khorne ever even use Psyker powers. Khorne hates all forms of magic which in 40k would include Telekinesis. Or can fodder level psykers just lift Kharn up in the air to prevent him from hitting them?
EDIT: And for summoning, obviously that's ok
Afaik that's the only time followers of Khorne ever even use Psyker powers. Khorne hates all forms of magic which in 40k would include Telekinesis. Or can fodder level psykers just lift Kharn up in the air to prevent him from hitting them?
EDIT: And for summoning, obviously that's ok
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Palestine for reasons above I guess
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@Web
I can literally show you a scene with Bloodleters shooting energy beams of their swords. That's magic.
I can literally show you a scene with Bloodleters shooting energy beams of their swords. That's magic.
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I think it should be clarified which Palpatine is being used here since Dark Empire Sidious>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>RoTS/RoTJ Sidious.
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Or how about Bloodthirsters who are literally Reality Warpers?
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I don't know if energy beams are analogous to Telekinesis. Energy beams are already somewhat like guns. Telekinesis is a different beast.
You could use it to prevent martial combat entirely like moving the object they are fighting on anyway or just lifting them up in the air.
I'd prefer to see a feat of Khornates actually using Telekinesis to completely convince me.
You could use it to prevent martial combat entirely like moving the object they are fighting on anyway or just lifting them up in the air.
I'd prefer to see a feat of Khornates actually using Telekinesis to completely convince me.
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Haven't we had fights on here where Khorne has specifically negated reality warping before? Are those wrong now?Matthew Schroeder said:
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No but to say that Khorne accepts no magical powers is wrong. Offensive Magic is fine.
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Betting Palps for a combination of my own reasoning as well as Matt's reasoning that Khorn will not judge telekinesis and such unfair.
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Palpatine FRA. Comparable skill along with far greater strength and versitile attacks that won't get nulled because Khorne doesn't view telekinesis and lightning as unfair. (Unless Palps tries to range spam in which case that's getting nulled.)
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Matt, Me, Hell, Wright
Anyone else?
Anyone else?
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Palpatine FRA.
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