Speed Equalization Standards

[ShivaShakti]

So as well know and have seen time and time again, "Speed Equalization" has been a popular term within the wiki and our various matchups, and is used quite often to make matchups more fair.

However, there are times when speed equalized can be confused or convoluted, such as in the case of certain characters having different movement speeds, reaction speeds, attack speeds, etc. There is also the case of certain characters having the ability to amplify their speed against others that can't do this. I attempted to find a page detailing the standards for speed equalization just earlier, however I couldn't find one.

Since this term has become so widespread across the wiki and is used quite often, I believe it should have a detailed page explaining the concept and it's standards in varying situations. I'm making this thread so we can discuss these standards and come to a consensus.

Checklist of Things to Consider:

• Does attack speed get equalized, does it stay the same as it was before the equalization, or is it just relative? Both in the sense of attacks that are being physically created by a characters and others done by external means such as a gun.
• Do methods of amplificating movement speed get equalized? I mean stuff such as flight speed for some characters.
• Who does speed get equalized to, the faster or slower character?
• Does reaction speed get equalized, stay the same or become relative to the character's new speed?
  • Can increasing reaction times to the point of permanently viewing the world in slow motion count as a speed blitz, and be subjected to the same rules as speed amping for the slower character?
  • If we decide that it is equalized, are characters still able to replicate speed-related feats they've shown, such as dodging bullets?
    • If we decide that yes, they'll be able to replicate those feats, what about a case where Character X, who's MHS, has dodged bullets, but Character Y, who's currently fighting him, is MFTL+, but from a cartoony, kids' series (so no guns)? Is Y unable to dodge bullets but X can, despite Y being far faster?

 

[Regidian]

Agree

 

[Axxtentacle]

I agree. There's too much loose room for interpretation, despite most people saying that there is a set of rules for it.

 

[HeadlessKramerGeoff777]

It needs to be defined, yes.

 

[Roachman40]

I agree

 

[Armorchompy]

Very much agreed.

 

[Antvasima]

We have had long discussions about this several times over the years, and are always unable to work out any better/less bad solution than our current versus thread rules.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I don't see why that would be the case. We define what "speed equalization" really is, and make a page.

Why didn't that work before?

 

[Antvasima]

I do not quite remember, but it was likely because it was impossible to find standards that were simultaneously specific enough and not too restrictive.

 

[Armorchompy]

Considering the great majority of VS threads are speed-equalized, I think that's not something that can be left undecided. Even just saying it's up to the person making the thread if everything is equalized or everything is scaled relatively to the base speed would solve the issue somewhat.

 

[RadicalMrR]

All their speeds r equalized

Speed altering effects will affect both combatants.

Hax related to speed is still a go. Like, if a character gets intangibility from speed, it still applies with Speed equalized.

 

[Axxtentacle]

You mean that their speeds are equalized relatively right? Like, their combat and reactions speeds would still be >> their movement speeds?

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think this is best handled by making a list of issues equalising speed causes and then tackling them one by one. We will never get anything done trying to solve everything that's just thrown in at random.

 

[TheUnshakableOne]

I think this is best handled by making a list of issues equalising speed causes and then tackling them one by one. We will never get anything done trying to solve everything that's just thrown in at random.

Has the debate of Immeasurable speed > Passives been resolved? Because if lets say speed is equalized Character Y has Immeasurable speed, and then Character X is only Sub-Rel at his best. If both characters are equalized to immeasurable. would passives just stop working?


Idk if there is a rule about where the equalized speed goes to either, or at least i didn't see one. Does it go to the slower character so both characters are now Sub-Rel, or does it go to the faster character?

The four questions i have here with speed equalized

1. Does immeasurable speed make it where you are so fast you are unaffected by passive hax?
   
   
2. If speed equalized goes to the slower character. Does that mean passive hax can work on the immeasurable speed guy?
   
   
3. If speed equalized goes the immeasurable speed guy. Does that mean passives are useless as both will be too fast for passive hax to work? What about the sub-rel character who has no feats of his hax affecting immeasurable speed characters?

This is something i just now thought of with speed equalized.

Edit: Going along with what your saying if you get what i mean by this statement.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

We'll cross that bridge when we get there. As of right now, someone should compile all the problems with speed equalization so we can go down the list and solve each problem one by one.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I agree with Ovens here.

 

[Axxtentacle]

I agree with Ovens, but once the issues are dealt with, I still think a page should be made to avoid future issues.

 

[Rikimarox2]

Only read the op, so here's my answer:

Everything gets equalized in a speed equalized match, Including reaction speed or combat speed.

And iirc, Amps are allowed in a speed equalized match, even if the opponent doesn't have amps themselves.

Though, I agree with the op on making this more clearer.

 

[Armorchompy]

From the top of my mind:

• Does attack speed get equalized, does it stay the same as it was before the equalization, or is it just relative? Both in the sense of attacks that are being physically created by a characters and others done by external means such as a gun.
• Do methods of amplificating movement speed get equalized? I mean stuff such as flight speed for some characters.
• Who does speed get equalized to, the faster or slower character?
• Does reaction speed get equalized, stay the same or become relative to the character's new speed?
  • Can increasing reaction times to the point of permanently viewing the world in slow motion count as a speed blitz, and be subjected to the same rules as speed amping for the slower character?
  • If we decide that it is equalized, are characters still able to replicate speed-related feats they've shown, such as dodging bullets?
    • If we decide that yes, they'll be able to replicate those feats, what about a case where Character X, who's MHS, has dodged bullets, but Character Y, who's currently fighting him, is MFTL+, but from a cartoony, kids' series (so no guns)? Is Y unable to dodge bullets but X can, despite Y being far faster?

I've probably missed a lot of stuff

 

[Axxtentacle]

Only read the op, so here's my answer:

Everything gets equalized in a speed equalized match, Including reaction speed or combat speed.

And iirc, Amps are allowed in a speed equalized match, even if the opponent doesn't have amps themselves.

Though, I agree with the op on making this more clearer.

Amps are only allowed if it doesn't make the slower character blitz. The faster character can amp themself to blitz.

 

[Twellas]

It would also be good to regulate speed amps, as in, when is a character allowed to win via a speed amp? Does he have to be the naturally faster out of the two? This is something that should be set in stone, so that everyone knows about it and there are no more discussions because I swear almost every match with a speed amp someone goes "you can't speedblitz with an amp in speed-equal matches"

 

[Axxtentacle]

It would also be good to regulate speed amps, as in, when is a character allowed to win via a speed amp? Does he have to be the naturally faster out of the two? This is something that should be set in stone, so that everyone knows about it and there are no more discussions because I swear almost every match with a speed amp someone goes "you can't speedblitz with an amp in speed-equal matches"

Amps are only allowed if it doesn't make the slower character blitz. The faster character can amp themself to blitz.

this ^^^^

 

[Twellas]

yeah I know, what I'm saying is that there should be a page or something that says it, and I agree with the op that "speed-equalized" needs a page of his own

 

[Axxtentacle]

Oh, that wasn't clear from your message.

What do people think about Oven's suggestion, then adding a page?

 

[Armorchompy]

Ovens' suggestion is the best way about this.

 

[Twellas]

yeah same

 

[Sir_Ovens]

If Kira doesn't object, I'll add the checklist to the OP.

 

[Twellas]

I always wondered, what about attack speed, like, let's say a character has a certain attack that is SOL while he's only hypersonic, does that laser stay SOL under speed-equalization or is it just "faster than both of them"? What if one of the 2 characters is FTL?

 

[Axxtentacle]

It would still appear as "fast" for the other fighter I think. Not sure.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

Does anyone have any concerns not illustrated in the OP?

We can start going through the list once everyone has said their piece.

 

[Twellas]

I always wondered, what about attack speed, like, let's say a character has a certain attack that is SOL while he's only hypersonic, does that laser stay SOL under speed-equalization or is it just "faster than both of them"? What if one of the 2 characters is FTL?

 

[Rikimarox2]

I believe Attack speed gets equalized as well. So, if a character with Human level movement speed, but hypersonic reaction speed fights against a MFTL+ character, then everything will be equalized to either Hypersonic or MFTL+.

 

[Sir_Ovens]

I think that's covered by:

• Does attack speed get equalized, does it stay the same as it was before the equalization, or is it just relative? Both in the sense of attacks that are being physically created by a characters and others done by external means such as a gun.

 

[Armorchompy]

That was the intention yeah

 

[Tllmbrg]

Just let the dude making the match decide how speed equal is handled and ask them to be specific in their version

 

[Rikimarox2]

I mean, a character with a gun will always be faster than a character who punches. The same goes for everything else. A character with thought-based attacks will be faster than a guy with a gun.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Just let the dude making the match decide how speed equal is handled and ask them to be specific in their version

that's honestly one of the worse suggestions i've from you

 

[Bobsican]

From what I've seen, "Speed Equalized" is generally taken as an excuse for "Don't bring up any speed related arguments to a match-up and just assume they're invalid, but Infinite speed characters may resist time stop, and immesurable characters are still (arbitrarily) faster than passives". If anything that should go in the Versus Thread Rules, rather than an entire page of its own.

 

[Greenshifter]

Yeah Yuri also disagreed with infinite speed character resisting time stop by default. But yeah Bob sums it up pretty much lol, except when speed amps are involved.

We should still give MFTL+ characters their actual flight speed back when they are BFR’d outside of the battlefield though, so no-one argues lol BFR Green Lantern to the edge of the universe, cause that ain’t gonna work in canon.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

I have a bad feeling this thread might turn into a Clusterfuck down the road, but I also agree with this being a necessary thing to implement.