Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken Discussion Thread 16

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Huh? Are they? And you… "Transmigrant"? This isn't any big surprise to you? What's with that reaction? So these "transmigrants" were common enough that he had a name for them? What was so rare about it, then? Hmph. You do see transmigrants, on occasion. Their memories from the past are burned into their souls, due to a powerful will. There are some, indeed, who retain every memory of their past lives. But a transmigrant from another world… That is quite uncommon. A regular soul, by itself, would have no hope of surviving a journey across realms. It would dissolve midway, taking its memories with it. Someone retaining their full mind and becoming reborn as a monster out of pure magic… I cannot recall any past example of that. Quite…peculiar, indeed. Transmigrants from other worlds, it seemed, kept only part of their memories at best. Someone like me, who still had them all, was pretty well unheard of—not that I cared too much. He had just told me something I couldn't afford to ignore. A soul, "by itself"…? So you could travel to this world without getting reincarnated or anything? Huh. Am I that unusual? 'Cause it sure doesn't feel that way… Are there people, then, who come here from other worlds without being trans-whatevered? There are. None have succeeded in traveling to another world from here, but there are more than a few that have completed their travels here from elsewhere. They are known as "visitors," or "otherworlders," and they bear knowledge of things that do not exist in this world. They acquire, as I hear it, some manner of special power when they make the journey here. Beyond that, there are records of transmigrants, who—as I said—bear knowledge of other worlds. Not all of them choose to openly identify themselves as such, though, I imagine. Interesting. I didn't know whether they came from the same planet I did, but it might be good to chat with them a bit. There might even be some from Japan, for all I knew. It was probably best for my sanity to have a goal while I was here, besides.
	~ LN Volume 1​

I think it's safe to say that Rimuru should have resistance to Memory Manipulation and Willpower Manipulation based on the quote I send.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Cool with that.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

I spent an hour finding proof in the LN and Manga for the Info Manip and Data Manip from 1st key Rimuru and made an imgur account for it lol. Also I spent several minutes thinking how to word the resistance to soul, memory and willpower

 

[Elizhaa]

It sounds more like resistance to Memory Manipulation both Memory Manipulation and Willpower Manipulation.

I feel iffy on Willpower Manipulation as the emphasis was place on strong soul to survive to survive cross world travel; also, it was placed on keeping your past memories.

 

[Elizhaa]

The WN was quite similar:

(Wha… can you even do it?! Aren't you a beginner at this yourself?) (Don't worry. You are among the lucky few who possesses past world memories. Thus, you know what light and darkness looks like. If you had not known, making you see would have been impossible even for me. You are indeed blessed!) I see, explaining light and darkness ............................ (I see. You had reincarnated as I thought. What a truly rare method you used.) (Eh? Method? And hey, aren't you supposed to be doubtful or surprised?) What's with that response. Isn't reincarnation supposed to be something really rare? From the way he says it, normal birth is beginning to seem more unusual! (Ay. Reincarnated tend to appear once in a while. Souls with strong intentions engraved in them. Those among them who remember their past life are not all that unusual But to have reincarnated from a different world… that is rare. Moreover, you'd normally be born from a human. But to be born as a monster, and from magical energy to say the least… that I have never heard of. To have crossed the boundaries of the worlds, just having a strong soul is not enough. Had you not stabilized your soul in this demonic body, your soul would have vanished. You are special.) (Is that so? I wasn't self aware, though… So there are those who have reincarnated from a different world, huh?) (Ay. Although there haven't been successful cases of world travel, some have wandered from there to this side. A "Foreigner" and a "World Traveler" ― so they are called, and they possess special intellect. Also, they tend to have acquired some special skills. Records of reincarnated being renowned for their wisdom do remain. Though there are most likely those that were never recognized.) I see. Other worlds.. I do not know whether they are from my Earth or not, but meeting them would not be a bad idea. Maybe, there are a few Japanese around. Might as well make meeting one my goal. (I see! In that case, I'll go see if I can meet any "World Traveler". Maybe, I'll find a compatriot among them.)
	~ Chapter 003 - First Conversatio​

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

From what I gather, it seems like the scaling for soul manip resistance is something like this (This is just an assumption):

Transmigrant Soul who forgot their memories<<Transmigrant Soul who retained some of their memories<<Transmigrant Soul who retain all of their memories<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Transmigrant Soul from another world who are lucky to survive the journey/reincarnation process but forgot their memories<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<Transmigrant Soul from another world who are lucky to retain half of their memory at best<<<<<<<<Transmigrant Soul from another world who retain all of their memories or Rimuru

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, the resistance would scale to Soul Manipulation resistance.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Nice, seems good.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Had a very strange thought. If the soul is quite literally traveling universes along with their memories... Low 2-C resistance?

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

I'm not sure how can we calculate that but considering a regular soul would have no hope and dissolve midway along their memories it can be possible. This will scale their resistance to willpower, memory and soul

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I'd hope so, but we'll have to consult CP.

 

[Elizhaa]

Personally, I think Low 2-C resistance without proper context sounds like wank.


I do agree it would be a good idea to ask CP

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Yeah now that I think about it, it's not sounds very unlikely considering it's just travel. But it implies regular soul dies midway though

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, it is what I think of it.

 

[Elizhaa]

I am bit iffy on Rimuru's LN analysis; the current text is the great sage's description of it but it is stated Rimuru need to use predation first before he used analysis since he link it predator in Volume 1:

"Well, we have you to thank for that, Sir Rimuru," Shuna said. It turned out—and I had no idea about this—that Shuna had obtained the unique skill Analysis, the same one I had been using to such great effect. Apparently, she had inherited many of the benefits I had as part of my Great Sage skill—Hasten Thought, Analyze and Assess, Cast Cancel, and All of Creation. In her case, though, her Assess skills were so advanced that she could just use Magic Sense to analyze objects, where I had to use Predator on them first.
	~ LN Volume 2 -CHAPTER 2 EVOLUTIONS AND CLASHES​

In the WN, it was the same case too but he gained the ability to analysis with sight alone after getting Gluttony:

I glance over the orc army. And, have them line up according to my wishes. Recently, I can use my 『Great Sage』's appraisal ability simply by looking. Just like Shuna does. As expected of 『Gluttony』's Food Chain ability. It's super effective! And so I named (assigned numbers to) everyone, except the Orc General. Thus the later famous Yellow Corps was born. Numbers assigned indiscriminately of gender.
	~ Chapter 043 - War Reparations​

Is there a situation for Rimuru's improved analysis in the LN too, because I try looking for it but I could not found it?

If there is none, it should be stated on his profile that he needed to use Predation on it.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

@Elizhaa

You can use the guy that summoned the Lesser Demon against Rimuru in Blumund and he basically just analyzed the summoning magic and got the ability to summon demons. Rimuru used that to summon Beretta and Diablo to the Material World

 

[Elizhaa]

I re-read some stuffs. Great Sage has its own analysis for both the LN and WN; Rimuru has the other analysis for Predator/Gluttony for basically Power Mimicry. I could have been wrong before.

 

[Elizhaa]

@Elizhaa
You can use the guy that summoned the Lesser Demon against Rimuru in Blumund and he basically just analyzed the summoning magic and got the ability to summon demons. Rimuru used that to summon Beretta and Diablo to the Material World

I check it looks valid:

Oh, so now it's a trial, not an exam? I could see the veins in Thegis's eyes bulging as he began chanting once more, this time with clear rays of magic shooting up and down his arms. The observers looked on silently. "I, uh, I'm gonna get the guild master," shouted one before running off—but before anyone took notice, Thegis's summon was complete. An evil creature appeared before me. It was a Lesser Demon, a monster with four wriggling arms. I hadn't seen a demon-type creature like this before. My impulse was to consume it and take its skills. And for that matter, that wasn't a Summon Monster spell just now, was it? It was Summon Demon. That'd come in helpful, too… Report. The summoning magic Summon Demon…successfully earned. Oh, whoops. That wound up being easier than I thought. It was funny how arts took forever and a day to master, but magic was just a quick snap of the fingers. It came that easy because he unleashed it right in front of me, yes, but it hardly seemed real sometimes.
	~ LN Volume 4, Chapter 4​

There is another similar quote from the WN:

┬½Solution. Verified command Create: Golem. Creation possible. Abilities can be added through a spirit or a demon. The outward appearance will be according to your imagination. Please decide on a summoning target when creating the golem.┬╗ Way to go『Great Sage』. Seems like it pulled the appropriate spell from thousands of magic archives in an instant. A relatively simple magic. Summoning magic I first saw during the adventurer exam and have been analyzing it ever since. So, all I need to decide is whether to use a demon or a spirit.
	~ WN Chapter 64​

So, it looks like Great Sage would have it own Power Mimicry system.

 

[Elizhaa]

I went looking back at the early chapter, for Rimuru's analysis feat and see if they would be similar feat in the LN.

In the Wn: I found this:

Next, Illusion Flowers. From this flower you can make Hallucinogens and Bewitching Perfume. The effects of these items are, Hallucinogens: Used to amplify ÒÇêHypnotism-type MagicÒÇë. Taking it normally will induce hallucinations. Leads to addiction. Bewitching Perfume: Amplifies the effects of ÒÇêHypnotism-type MagicÒÇë by up to 30%. Increases resistance to ÒÇêHypnotism-type MagicÒÇë by up to 30%. That would be for quality item, of course; normal one would increase the effects by only 20%. What is amplified? The success rate of the skill, the extent of control, and the duration. It is an item coveted by most practitioners of this type of magic. However, addiction is bad. It's probably similar to our world's hallucinogens. Though I doubt they sell it to just anybody. By the way, while I was analyzing the poison, I happened to have acquired some resistance to it. At this rate, I might get a new skill soon. If I harvest and analyze some more poisonous plants, of course. Eating the plant would be a bad idea, but I wouldn't get poisoned if I absorbed it into my stomach. So, I can't die from poison. And since I wouldn't get food poisoning either, I taste tested most dishes during the trip. But I digress.
	~ WN Chapter 53​

This is broken, the dude can get resistance from his analysis.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Yeah, he basically get that when he was affected by the holy field and gained back up resistance like power null, statistic reduction and holy manipulation allowing him to use skills in the field but not magicules. I also added it in Rimuru's Reactive Evolution tho

 

[Elizhaa]

I will be honest, it looks like Honjou Masayuki (Web Novel) should be updated. From what I read, he would be 7-C scaling from the children whose energy would scaled to A ranked monster, at least. The comparison that he used to be stronger than the children but in the end, they became slightly stronger than him.

He also need the magic perception's abilities added to. A easy evidence is he can communicated in the other world world speaking Japanese.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

I remember something from the WN that Masayuki has Rudra Sword which has the mass of the stars tho.

 

[Elizhaa]

Yeah, he basically get that when he was affected by the holy field and gained back up resistance like power null, statistic reduction and holy manipulation allowing him to use skills in the field but not magicules. I also added it in Rimuru's Reactive Evolution tho

To be fair, I think there were case that Rimuru gained resistance to what he absorb from analysis, in the WN; but I put it off earlier. In the Wn, after absorbing Ifrit, he gained Fire Attack Resistance.


It might be also be in the LN too.

The barrier gaining resistance feat was not show to happen in the WN but Rimuru's magic wasn't nullfied like before so it could be evidence of resistances too.

I willl work on a revision to give Rimuru's firs key reactive evolution, this week.

 

[Elizhaa]

I remember something from the WN that Masayuki has Rudra Sword which has the mass of the stars tho.

I was skeptical so search the novel, he got it. I don't remember the sword having the mass of a star. I look up volume 10 wn, but I could not found this statement. I see a case for a second key for him though for At least 7-C, possibly High 4-C with the Rudra Sword or Unknown, possibly High 4-C with the Rudra Sword though.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

I think I'm mixing it up with Veldanava's sword which has the mass of stars

 

[Elizhaa]

No worry, it sounds like a simple mistake.

 

[Doomrider7]

Bunny Girl Spinoff got picked up.

https://www.animenewsnetwork.com/ne...-the-ways-of-the-monster-nation-manga/.155096

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

>Yen Press

 

[Elizhaa]

Nice, this news means more Slime contents!

 

[Doomrider7]

>Yen Press

It was always gonna happen.

 

[OpMasada]

I don't dislike Yen Press translations as much as I hate their damn speed.

 

[OpMasada]

wyyyyyyye's summary and explanation of magic of LN 8.5 from reddit

Magic of Tensura is a process to achieve/ produce specific result / effect. It is usually via the user's imagination (willpower) of the result/effect and realizing that image via specific methods / rules. Different schools of magic have different methods/rules.

Common properties / elements of magic: Earth (Õ£░) > Space and Void (grouped under þ®║) > Wind (Úó¿) > Water (µ░┤) > Fire (þü½) > Earth > and so on.

Note that Physic magic is made up by Rimuru and not a common school of magic. (WN final arc) Primitive magic and (WN EOS) Card magic are not in LN although they may be introduced later. Will not going through these to avoid confusions between LN and WN.

There are 4 common schools of magic:

• Elemental magic - This is technically "science" of magic that requires understanding of the world and the rules that govern it. Human caster usually requires casting and/or preparations such as scroll or magic circle to "kick start" the magic process with the image of effect (willpower) and burning internal magicule reserves, and then complete the process with methods/rules that draws from the external magicule of surrounding environment to finally make the magic happens.

Humanity in general have way less internal magicule reserves compared to monsters (used as board term including deamon etc) so this is the common school of magic as it mainly relies on external magicule. A strong Willpower is a must for keeping a firm image of the effect so casting/ chanting helps the user both to focus and executing the rules.

Monsters have larger internal magicule (some are completely made up of magicule) so in some cases they can form the magic within themselves using only their internal magicule and cast the magic without casting / chanting.

• Spirit magic (or fairy magic) - magic can be performed by forming a contract with natural Spirits (Ifrit for example). The contracted Spirit is the one performing the magic and requires minimal to no magicule from the caster. It also does not require casting /chanting and this makes it valuable in combat situations. What magic can be performed varies based on the kind of Spirit, and the magic's power output /effectiveness is relative to the magicule reserve (as it does not draw from environment) and tier of the Spirit.
• Holy magic - it can be considered as related to Spirit magic and requires a contract with one of the highest tier Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Its true nature remains a mystery (at least until LN 8+). Not a common school for one to openly learn (mainly related to Ruminas Church) and not used by usual adventurers etc.
• Summon magic - a kind of magic that requires the user have already learned either Elemental magic (for lesser deamon, tamed monster etc) or Spirit magic (for Spirit). The user will also need knowledge and understanding of space/dimension related stuffs to perform summoning.

Other variations:

• Illustration magic - variation based on elemental magic or spirit magic.
• Enchanting - enchanting items or creating magic tools. Not limited to magic that can be performed by the enchanter. Examples are the barrier magic stones on the road, magic items, weapons etc.

There are different job titles for individuals based on the functions and school(s) of magic.

Additionally there are True Dragon magic used by True Dragons and Deamon magic. Some Deamons magic are more complex forms/ applications that can be learned by others. For example the Nuclear Cannon, Gravity Collapse, etc are applications of Elemental magic to the extreme.

Some uncommon magic also exists that bend or combine the rules of common schools based on extensive knowledge of the world. An example is the spiritual procession ritual of Razen.

Additional stuff:

the description in LN 8.5 should be for normal circumstances if one wants to use Holy magic. Holy magic is not a Ruminas Church only thing as some of the Holy magic predate the Church itself such as Heal, Regenerationn, and Resurrection (Deamon). The key is understanding and controlling Ú£èÕ¡É (spiritual/holy particles?) which of course a Holy Spirit can perform on behalf of the user. The Church only makes Holy magic users more available bypassing the Holy Spirit part.

Ruminas's method she taught to Rimuru does not require an actual contract with Holy Spirit. It bends the rule of the world as the "idol" (the one being worshipped) acts as a remote server to process the necessary controlling for the clients (worshippers). It requires only the idol to understand and control the particles with a setup to process client requests (Rimuru does this via Raphael). This bypassed the need to contract Holy Spirit.

 

[Doomrider7]

wyyyyyyye's summary and explanation of magic of LN 8.5 from reddit
Magic of Tensura is a process to achieve/ produce specific result / effect. It is usually via the user's imagination (willpower) of the result/effect and realizing that image via specific methods / rules. Different schools of magic have different methods/rules.

Common properties / elements of magic: Earth (Õ£░) > Space and Void (grouped under þ®║) > Wind (Úó¿) > Water (µ░┤) > Fire (þü½) > Earth > and so on.

Note that Physic magic is made up by Rimuru and not a common school of magic. (WN final arc) Primitive magic and (WN EOS) Card magic are not in LN although they may be introduced later. Will not going through these to avoid confusions between LN and WN.

There are 4 common schools of magic:

• Elemental magic - This is technically "science" of magic that requires understanding of the world and the rules that govern it. Human caster usually requires casting and/or preparations such as scroll or magic circle to "kick start" the magic process with the image of effect (willpower) and burning internal magicule reserves, and then complete the process with methods/rules that draws from the external magicule of surrounding environment to finally make the magic happens.

Humanity in general have way less internal magicule reserves compared to monsters (used as board term including deamon etc) so this is the common school of magic as it mainly relies on external magicule. A strong Willpower is a must for keeping a firm image of the effect so casting/ chanting helps the user both to focus and executing the rules.

Monsters have larger internal magicule (some are completely made up of magicule) so in some cases they can form the magic within themselves using only their internal magicule and cast the magic without casting / chanting.

• Spirit magic (or fairy magic) - magic can be performed by forming a contract with natural Spirits (Ifrit for example). The contracted Spirit is the one performing the magic and requires minimal to no magicule from the caster. It also does not require casting /chanting and this makes it valuable in combat situations. What magic can be performed varies based on the kind of Spirit, and the magic's power output /effectiveness is relative to the magicule reserve (as it does not draw from environment) and tier of the Spirit.
• Holy magic - it can be considered as related to Spirit magic and requires a contract with one of the highest tier Spirit, the Holy Spirit. Its true nature remains a mystery (at least until LN 8+). Not a common school for one to openly learn (mainly related to Ruminas Church) and not used by usual adventurers etc.
• Summon magic - a kind of magic that requires the user have already learned either Elemental magic (for lesser deamon, tamed monster etc) or Spirit magic (for Spirit). The user will also need knowledge and understanding of space/dimension related stuffs to perform summoning.

Other variations:

• Illustration magic - variation based on elemental magic or spirit magic.
• Enchanting - enchanting items or creating magic tools. Not limited to magic that can be performed by the enchanter. Examples are the barrier magic stones on the road, magic items, weapons etc.

There are different job titles for individuals based on the functions and school(s) of magic.

Additionally there are True Dragon magic used by True Dragons and Deamon magic. Some Deamons magic are more complex forms/ applications that can be learned by others. For example the Nuclear Cannon, Gravity Collapse, etc are applications of Elemental magic to the extreme.

Some uncommon magic also exists that bend or combine the rules of common schools based on extensive knowledge of the world. An example is the spiritual procession ritual of Razen.

Additional stuff:

the description in LN 8.5 should be for normal circumstances if one wants to use Holy magic. Holy magic is not a Ruminas Church only thing as some of the Holy magic predate the Church itself such as Heal, Regenerationn, and Resurrection (Deamon). The key is understanding and controlling Ú£èÕ¡É (spiritual/holy particles?) which of course a Holy Spirit can perform on behalf of the user. The Church only makes Holy magic users more available bypassing the Holy Spirit part.

Ruminas's method she taught to Rimuru does not require an actual contract with Holy Spirit. It bends the rule of the world as the "idol" (the one being worshipped) acts as a remote server to process the necessary controlling for the clients (worshippers). It requires only the idol to understand and control the particles with a setup to process client requests (Rimuru does this via Raphael). This bypassed the need to contract Holy Spirit.

Totally forgot to share it on here.

 

[Lezqej]

Can Rimuru (WN) win against Naofumi (WN)?

 

[Doomrider7]

Can Rimuru (WN) win against Naofumi (WN)?

I believe so given that Rimuru is ranked 2-B and Naofumi is ranked Low 2-C. This battle HAS been brought up before in Rimuru's favor, but I can't recall the specifics of the win condition.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I see reality warping in that magic statement.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

That's some very nice info about magic and also I found new feats from Demon Slime Rimuru that we've missed:

I'll be the one to take damage from a frontal impact, so I need to use dissolving techniques in my offense. I'll use my force from the side to change trajectory of Milim's fists and kicks. Then I'll used the interval for ÒÇîGluttonous King BeezlmuthÒÇì to absorb magicule. This seems to be very effective as Milim draws distance from me with annoyance. The damage caused was minimum, but it would suffice. Since Milim's attacks are all protected by her Dragon Aura, that's why the more I engage and absorb her dragon aura, the more stamina I can drain from Milim as it goes. Let's hope Shion would defeat Clayman soon. But it's another issue whether I could win or not with this continues to repeat.
	~ LN Volume 6​

Stamina Drai via Beelzebub Also I was gonna post the statement about Rimuru having curse negation from having the ability to negate the curse from Kumara but I think that already falls under powernull. I think Rimuru should have resistance to curse to due to the fact that anything that analyzed by Raphael also grants Rimuru resistance plus being an Ultimate Skill user

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

I agree with stamina draining. Curse Negation probably does fall under power null, just add that as justification. I'm not sure about resistances to everything he's analyzed.

 

[Milly_Rocking_Bandit]

Also, if Rimuru can use the Holy Field or Anti-Magic Field that weakens monsters, he should likely have Stats Reduction regardless.

 

[MrDrProfessorPatricio]

Oh yeah I forgot it weakened Shion and co.