The problems with Ergenverse power and ability lists

[Malomtek]

@Antvasima

Whenever I look at the page of an Ergenverse character, I find the "Powers and Abilities" section to be borderline unreadable. Each listing of a power is set next to parentheses'd fluff better suited for the Attacks and Techniques section, and there are redundant power listings in each tag for every "new" technique a character has based on an already previously established ability -- which is, again, better suited for the Attacks and Techniques section. The result is a heavily bloated mess that is a massive eyesore and a chore to read.

This is a problem with many -- if not the overwhelming majority -- of our current character profiles, but Ergenverse profiles are among the worst.

 

[Malomtek]

@AKM sama @Promestein @Ryukama @DontTalkDT @Ultima_Reality @SomebodyData @Amelia_Lonelyheart @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @DarkDragonMedeus @Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245

I would appreciate your input here.

@Zaratthustra @Antoniofer @Warren_Valion @Eficiente @The_Impress @GyroNutz @DarkGrath @The_Wright_Way @Ogbunabali @Firestorm808 @Agnaa @Matthew_Schroeder

Input would be appreciated from you as well.

 

[Zaratthustra]

Normal users can't tag others, only staff members can tag others meaning that no one will get an alert.

That happened not just to Ergenverse, but to tens of verses thanks to the bad updated the fandom has done for the wiki which made the old coding less usable in some cases such as formatting and gallery section.

 

[Antvasima]

Didn't @NoGround mention that Fandom would fix these types of formatting errors?

If not, I would greatly appreciate if you and the other content moderators and some administrators would be willing to help out with fixing it Zaratthustra.

 

[Zaratthustra]

I fixed the 2 profiles from Ergenverse today when I fixed the Willpower Manipulation while for the rest of the profiles from other verses I don't know exactly which they are now as I know of this when it was first updated the wiki.

I don't think they fixed it otherwise it wouldn't still be there for some characters. The only way to fix the space problem from what I found is either add a once or twice the symbol (*) at beginning of a technique/skill or add twice <br> but the last one will add more space between rows than normal.

I will fix if I meet such profiles when I look at them or fix them (Willpower Manipulation) but otherwise is hard to look through so many of them to find it. This can only be done progressively as the profiles are updated/crt-ed/etc if there are still such profiles by those that work on them or by the staff members if they are locked I guess.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you very much for helping out.

Feel free to send notifications to the other content moderators and administrators that you think could help you out to come to this thread, and preferably give them some instructions as well.

 

[Malomtek]

Thank you very much for helping out.

Feel free to send notifications to the other content moderators and administrators that you think could help you out to come to this thread, and preferably give them som instructions as well.

Can you tag anybody as well?

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.

@SomebodyData @The_real_cal_howard @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Matthew_Schroeder @WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack @Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando @Abstractions

Would any of you be willing to help Zaratthustra in his cleanup work please?

 

[Malomtek]

Okay.

@SomebodyData @The_real_cal_howard @Dragonmasterxyz @Celestial_Pegasus @Soldier_Blue @Saikou_The_Lewd_King @Andytrenom @Dargoo_Faust @Wokistan @MrKingOfNegativity @Mr._Bambu @Elizhaa @Qawsedf234 @ByAsura @Sir_Ovens @Damage3245 @Matthew_Schroeder @WeeklyBattles @Colonel_Krukov @Shadowbokunohero @Ogurtsow @Starter_Pack @Steven_Pogi_Paitao @Mindovin @Jvando @Abstractions

Would any of you be willing to help Zaratthustra in his cleanup work please?

It's not just Ergenverse profiles that need cleaning up, it's most of our current profiles, Anos Voldigoad being a particularly egregious example.

 

[Antvasima]

Can you link to a few examples please?

 

[Malomtek]

Can you link to a few examples please?

Sonic the Hedgehog (Archie Pre-Genesis Wave)

Sonic the Hedgehog, born Maurice Hedgehog, is the eponymous protagonist in the Sonic the Hedgehog comic series and its spin-offs published by Archie Comics, of the same name. He is a mobian hedgehog gifted with incredible speed and the power to harness Chaos Energy. Known for an overconfident...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Rimuru Tempest (Web Novel)

Rimuru Tempest, formerly known as Mikami Satoru, is the main protagonist of Tensei Shitara Slime Datta Ken. He is the founder and King of the Monster Country. Also known as the "Tempest of the Great Jura Forest," he is regarded as one of the strongest Demon Lords amongst the Mighty Eight Star...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Medaka Kurokami

Medaka Kurokami (黒神 めだか, Kurokami Medaka) is the female protagonist of the series Medaka Box. A freshman of Class 13, she was the 98th and later 99th Student Council president of Hakoniwa Academy. She is a childhood friend of Zenkichi Hitoyoshi, who she strong-arms into joining the Student...

vsbattles.fandom.com

 

[Zaratthustra]

Wait, so if I understand right from the three profiles you posted..your problem is that the Power and Abilities section (as the technique looks good on them as they don't seem to have the problem with no-space between rows), right? The profiles have so many because they have that many techniques/abilities/etc. When the powers are repeated it's cause they have multiple keys holding the same power twice as it comes from 2 different sources (2 or more different powers/techniques/etc.). In one key coming from a skill while in another from another one that he/she gained in that point of the story.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

I dont see anything wrong with Medaka/Rimuru/Sonic's profile, they are perfecly readable. And they are not repeating powers like you are implying. If anything, that only happens in another key, which is fine

Also what Zara said.

 

[Antvasima]

I do not notice any problems either.

 

[Malomtek]

Wait, so if I understand right from the three profiles you posted..your problem is that the Power and Abilities section (as the technique looks good on them as they don't seem to have the problem with no-space between rows), right? The profiles have so many because they have that many techniques/abilities/etc. When the powers are repeated it's cause they have multiple keys holding the same power twice as it comes from 2 different sources (2 or more different powers/techniques/etc.). In one key coming from a skill while in another from another one that he/she gained in that point of the story.

I dont see anything wrong with Medaka/Rimuru/Sonic's profile, they are perfecly readable. And they are not repeating powers like you are implying. If anything, that only happens in another key, which is fine

Also what Zara said.

These all sound like very weak excuses. If the application of a general power comes from two different sources, then they can be listed under the Attacks and Techniques section.

I'm also not complaining about the number of powers, I'm complaint about all the fluff that goes in parentheses to explain the power, which would be better suited for the Attacks and Techniques section.

If a repeated listing of a power has to occur, it can also be listed in the Attacks and Techniques section under a "blanket ability".

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

These all sound like very weak excuses. If the application of a general power comes from two different sources, then they can be listed under the Attacks and Techniques section.

Its perfectly fine and under our standards to repeat a power in another key if needed. Heck, a single power can have multiple applications in a single key, and those should be listed too. We are an indexing wiki after all

I'm also not complaining about the number of powers, I'm complaint about all the fluff that goes in parentheses to explain the power, which would be better suited for the Attacks and Techniques section.

Nah, its fine as it is. Like I said, the profiles are perfectly readable, so there are no issues

If a repeated listing of a power has to occur, it can also be listed in the Attacks and Techniques section under a "blanket ability".

Or we can list it in the P&A section since its function is to explain powers too

 

[Malomtek]

Its perfectly fine and under our standards to repeat a power in another key if needed. Heck, a single power can have multiple applications in a single key, and those should be listed too. We are an indexing wiki. You not liking it wont change this


Nah, its fine as it is. Like I said, the profiles are perfectly readable, so there are no issues

Or we can list it in the P&A section since its function is to explain powers too

The condescending and dismissive tone you're taking with this isn't giving me confidence about your reasonability.

If a character can use two different abilities to cause Fire Manipulation, we can put "Fire-Based Attacks" or something like that in his Attacks and Techniques section and put those techniques under that "Fire-Based Attacks" header.

Repeating a power in another key is completely redundant, and there is no purpose to it other than to create infantile "look at how haxxxxx0red my guy is" comments from casuals skimming the profile.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Maybe I was too harsh, my bad. But the point still stands though

Or we can list in the P&A section since its another (and the main) way of explaining the powers. You can structurate your own profile in several ways when it comes to editing. Some people just likes to add the power and explain in the technique section, while others prefer to add and explain in the P&A section. Both methods are valid so there is no issue here

Its informative, not redundant. Especially if the application is different, which is usually the case

 

[Ionliosite]

I seriously don't see what the issue is here. The complain can basically be summed up due to the profiles being too long, but that's because Rimuru seriously has over 100 different abilities, there's nothing we can do there.

 

[YungManzi]

I believe the OP is more-so talking about getting rid of the mini-summaries/justifications which are in parenthesis, instead only listing the abilities themselves and relegating any further explanation to the notable attacks/techniques section. Now, while I don't really agree with this point of view, I have seen the opinions of other users (And a staff member) who feel the same.

To give an example, this is what Anos's P&A Section would be like with the proposed change:

Superhuman Physical Characteristics, Extrasensory Perception, Weapon Mastery, Light Manipulation, Flight, Duplication, Longevity, Immortality (Types 2, 3, 4, 6 and 8 ), Regeneration (High-Godly), Acausality (Type 4), Fear Manipulation, Body Puppetry, Deconstruction, Air Manipulation, Electricity Manipulation, Enhanced Senses, Mind Manipulation, Fusionism, Aura, Memory Manipulation, Telekinesis, Paralysis Inducement, Death Manipulation, Magic, Non-Physical Interaction, Sleep Manipulation, Creation, Illusion Creation, Body Control, Healing, Power Nullification, Explosion Manipulation, Genius Intelligence, Necromancy, Fire Manipulation, Time Stop, Sound Manipulation, Telepathy, Dimensional Travel, Teleportation, Forcefield Creation, Life Manipulation, Power Bestowal, Absorption, Existence Erasure, Information Analysis, Reactive Evolution, Time Travel, Clairvoyance, Curse Manipulation, Holy Manipulation, Probability Manipulation, Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3)

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Ive already addressed that point, though

 

[Malomtek]

Maybe I was too harsh, my bad. But the point still stands though

Or we can list in the P&A section since its another (and the main) way of explaining the powers. You can structurate your own profile in several ways when it comes to editing. Some people just likes to add the power and explain in the technique section, while others prefer to add and explain in the P&A section. Both methods are valid so there is no issue here

Its informative, not redundant. Especially if the application is different, which is usually the case

It isn't necessary to copy and paste an ability to different tabs just for different applications of the same power. It's just wasteful, and clutters up the space.

There needs to be some standardization with how we structure profiles, or at least an enforcement of standards. I was told one time that we had a "Standard Tactics" section for character profiles, which I don't see even in the profiles I already listed.

We also need to harshen up the standards on exactly where powers are explained in the profiles.

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Its not wasteful when thats how the ability works. There are some abilities that just cant be indexed by one power and rather several other ones. And again, we are an indexing wiki, so such method is fine

You'd have to create a wiki-wide revision for that then, which is honestly unnecessary and unrealistic since there is clearly no objective issue with both formats that we are currently using right now. Your presented "issue" is mainly subjective

 

[ÆONS]

After looking over the OP as well as Malomtek's samples and arguments, I also say that I strongly disagree with what he has to say. From my perspective, the profiles are just fine and the sections fulfill their necessary functions as such.

1) The Powers and Abilities section lists all the powers and abilities of a certain character while also providing short explanations/elaborations of what they are.
2) The Attacks and Techniques section fulfills its purpose by stating the attacks and techniques of said character while also explaining them with enough detail.

In fact, I would say that what we are doing right now is better. It would not be of my interest to go back and forth between the P&A section and the A&T section just to find whatever elaboration I want while also dealing with gigantic loads of information in the A&T section. Having such information right next to the ability, in particular, makes things more convenient. Anyone else can provide their perspective on the matter.

I would also come against the notion of redundancy of the character's profiles. While it is possible that some profiles can be redundant with their information, it is still valid in an indexing wiki since they still fulfill their purpose of providing information to the reader (refer to the two points stated above).

I would say that it is simply not worthwhile at all to attempt making a wiki-wide change to a matter that at best only a few people have problems with and all they could provide are subjective, personal, reasons for why they dislike it.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with ÆONS.

Should we close this thread?

 

[Oblivion_Of_The_Endless]

Yes. The profiles are fine as they are right now.

 

[Antvasima]

Okay.