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Ultima_Reality

Ultima_Reality

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  • Dark_Soul20189
    Hello me and some friends have been arguing about R>F transcendence and I have 2 questions I would love to hear your opinion about.

    • First, If there is a infinite R>F transcendence in this case reality and dream. Will the tier change if the hierarchy go up or down? I am wondering since i think it is just a perspective.
    • Second, The size of the R>F should be irrelevant right? Since the argument is being made that a "dream" is comparable in size to "reality" is a anti-feat for the R>F.

    Thank you for your time.
    Breakdown
    Hello.
    In this cutscene from Honkai,a character is inside of a higher dimensional plane, and punches their way through a wall because they got sealed off from a lot of it (The feat starts at 2:15). Is this AP, HDM, or something else?
    Testarossa002
    Hello.
    I have some questions regarding "exotic abilities"
    Question 1
    Character A is said to be the personification of death. A can also manipulate death and can continue to exist as long as death remains. What does A qualify for?
    1. Immortality type 8
    2. Abstract existence type 2
    3. Conceptual manipulation (don't know what type)
    Question 2
    Character B created Character A (the one in the first question). Does that qualify for Conceptual manipulation?

    Would appreciate your response
    Realabod
    Realabod
    all of them
    not really you can argue and it depends on what character A is
    OMNIVERSAL-KING
    Sor to distrib you but can dimensionless existence type 3 (which was removed in past) return in this new tiering?
    In my opinion, that will be a great way to describe outerversal (a few changing old definitions are obviously needed)
    Elyartaker
    Hello!
    Sorry for bothering again haha.
    I know you are probably super busy with the pages and applying the changes + all the people asking questions.
    so once again pardon me for being rude!
    I had several questions

    1- I checked the new tier system page and was confused about two stuff. A) so are cardinals such as Berkeley and Mahlo High 1-B +? only Absolute infinity and T4 multiverse and similar are low outer?
    2- I have seen T4 multiverse in both low 1-A and High 1-A+, How? this doesn't make sense to me.
    3- from my understanding, a standard reactive evolution and adaptation can NOT make a being reach higher qualitative levels. (For example five layers into outer cannot each six layers into outer via reactive evolution)
    4- is it still possible for a being to have a higher qualitative hax while that being is lesser than it? (EX a 2D being having High 1-A hax)
    5- also just to be clear, High 1-A+ stands for anything such as infinite layers into higher outerversal up to even peak of high outerversal which can be achieved with EMR yes?

    Now I also have three recommendations
    1- I think we should have a new large size (type 12) for beings that are above quantities and meta quantity as a whole thus entering a qualitative size.
    2- majority of high tier pages must be changed. I'm asking please have the team writing those pages to be more clear where does a specific scan scales to hahaha.
    3- return of irrelevant speed?

    I would appreciate alot if you would answer these (obviously when you are free and have time don't want to be a headache)
    • Like
    Reactions: RenderGK
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    1. Yeah.

    2. Depends on whether the verse counts the laws of logic as among the mathematical conditions that might cause a universe to be instantiated in it.

    3. Yeah. Unless it falls under the stipulations in the FAQ.

    4. Under certain stipulations.

    5. No, infinite layers into High 1-A is not High 1-A+
    _________

    1. Probably.

    2. Sure.

    3. Maybe.
    Elyartaker
    Elyartaker
    so High 1-A+ is that "meta meta meta meta and so on" thing? kinda like "absolute Infinity" layers into High 1-A hahaha
    Also if a verse counts laws of logic then it will have a High 1-A+ T4 multiverse?
    also thank you for answering!
    ThatBoiRick
    Hey there, I’m not sure if you’ve spoken to Bobsican about matters regarding Kingdom Hearts, but I have some inquiries about the verse possibly reaching High 1-A.

    Within the verse, there exists a plane of existence called “the chasm of dreams.” In which, it was stated that one couldn’t reach said plain no matter how many dreams within dreams they dived into (“F>R”). My first question is whether being unreachable by any set of R>F “distance” constitutes High 1-A.

    My second question is in regard to the verses concept of Light and Darkness. The 2 primordial universal energy sources that compose the cosmology, even down to individuals’ abstract conceptual existences (their Hearts).

    I bring this up because of a statement presented likenening and describing the process of diving into dreams within dreams as diving into “darkness within darkness.” Would this imply Darkness (and therefore Light) as High 1-A via encompassing the Chasm of dreams as a whole, and transcending an infinite dream within dream hierarchy?

    Your input would be greatly appreciated, as the expert on such matters.
    RigelBR7
    Another doubt. A character whose existence precedes his own fictional work, where he himself wished to create It. Does this set it to R>f? Things like threatening the writers and interacting with the "real world" too. All this evidence leads to an R>f of level 1-A, right?
    LOTM_Historian
    Hey, could you take a look at these Lord of the Mysteries Revisions? I was also told you said that the Original Creator from LOTM could reach 1-A with the new system.

    vsbattles.com

    Upgrading Lord of the Mysteries

    We have been downplaying Lord of the Mysteries characters for quite a while now. Since the Earth is locked behind the world barrier, we aren't able to see massive DC feats within the material world. However, Lord of the Mysteries compensates for that by characters affecting higher dimensional...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

    Thank you 🙏
    Lightbuster30
    Hey, hope you don't mind, but I was curious about High 1-A+ after reading through some of the tiering system revisions.

    As far as I'm aware, 2 things stuck out to me.
    The apex of this tier, represented also by a "+" modifier (High 1-A+), corresponds to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process.
    Click to expand...
    As well as being capable of actualizing any arbitrarily large world or embodying the framework of such worlds. Basically embodying the collection of all possible worlds.

    So, a thought occurred to me. What if a character exceeds all conceivable extensions of the process of encompassing meta-qualities and so on, but they can't necessarily actualize any possible world. They just have power beyond all extensions of the aforementioned process.

    I was kinda wondering how it would go if High 1-A was regulated to "to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process."

    And high 1-A+ would be demiurgic figures who could either actualize any world or embody all possible worlds.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    So, a thought occurred to me. What if a character exceeds all conceivable extensions of the process of encompassing meta-qualities and so on, but they can't necessarily actualize any possible world. They just have power beyond all extensions of the aforementioned process.

    I was kinda wondering how it would go if High 1-A was regulated to "to characters whose power encompasses meta-qualities, meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-qualities, meta-meta-meta-meta-qualities, and any and all conceivable extensions of this process."
    Click to expand...
    They'd be High 1-A+ as well, just with a deficient causal power. Either way, you'd be at the limit point of the process of stacking "-qualities."
    Lightbuster30
    Lightbuster30
    Thank you for the clarification. I wasn't sure whether or not such a limit would warrant a downgrade for such characters. But it makes sense when you put it that way.
    Excellence616
    Hello, sorry to bother you but could you please take a look at this thread

    vsbattles.com

    Leftovers from my Marvel Magic revisions

    Edit/Addition: Jean Grey in her Phoenix keys and by extension the Phoenix Force itself should have Basic Magic (and thus also resistance to it), as Doctor Strange describes the Dark Phoenix's power as mystical in nature after sensing it.
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Astral_Trinity439
    Would this be BDE1 or BDE2, or anything at that?

    「ハハハ、それはね、ボクが全知全能なんかじゃないからさ。生まれた時は、ボクの意思だけがあった。その時は満たされていて、欠けたるものなど何一つなかった。完全無欠、〝全なる一〟──つまり、ボクしかいない世界だったんだ。そんなの、つまらないだろう？」 なるほどと、ギィは思った。 ギィだから、理解出来た。 つまりヴェルダナーヴァは、自らの意思で〝全知全能〟を捨てたのだ、と。
    Click to expand...
    I'm not at all omniscient or omnipotent, you know. When I was born, all that existed was my will. It was complete, fully, not a piece missing to it, I was the only one in the world, the “all-inclusive one”-that is, the only one in the world. Wouldn't that be boring?
    I see, Guy thought. Because it was Guy, he understood. In other words, Veldanava gave up “omniscience and omnipotence” of his own volition.
    Click to expand...

    Note : The character named Veldanava is not the same thing as this All-inclusive entity, they exist independently of each other but have a kind of a special connection
    LuffyRuffy46307
    If you have some time, could you comment here, please?
    vsbattles.com

    Dragon Ball's Main Cannon Timeline number downgrade

    The time room only exemplifies that there is not a single time axis around the multiverse, that's why I said that without the need for that, DBS manga already shows that destroying a universe doesn’t affect the greater timeline. If the cosmology is uncomposited, the low 1-C scale would continue...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Fixxed
    Can you give some input here
    vsbattles.com

    Bigger infinity should be uncountable infinity

    Yeah time to fixed this non sense. I still not know why the standard still keep this non sense, i think about this all days but still not get why this make sense So in previous thread , we already decided that being bigger than 2A in size can possibly have higher dimensional structure, as long...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Gasper
    I have one very wierd question, would Brahman from Hinduism qualify for tier 0?
    Fixxed
    Can you give your input here
    vsbattles.com

    Revision about Duality

    So basically we accept something as duality if those nature is like logical duality, or A and not A nature. We also accept something as duality if it have it negation or absence of that The problem is, being negation of something are literally just being nonexistence, it not substance to begin...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Tyranno223
    Hi, sorry to bother you again but this topic is something I need to wrap my head around for LotR.

    "Are there any 'bounds to a writer's job' except those imposed by his own finiteness? No bounds, but the laws of contradiction, I should think."

    This quote was used to describe the role of the Sub-Creator rather than the Creator I believe, as in Tolkien himself and other authors in the "Real World", this cosmologically puts the "Real World" as High 1-A+

    The "Real World" is viewed by Eru as fiction again, being that Eru is author of even "us" and that's wonderful support for Tier 0.

    However, the "Primary Reality" that the Ainur reside in is described as, at the very least, on par with the "Real World" in existence if not above it (depending on how literally the Timeless Halls are Eru's abode. It's the awkward situation of Seraphim around God's Throne sort of thing).

    The Ainur in their origin at the very least rival "authors" in terms of existence (with the Valar being granted titles as Sub-Creators in their own right, albeit in reference to their work in making the material world).

    So going back to my earlier rushed reactionary comment, would this result in the entire race (and the many existing sub-creators) being High 1-A+ in origin? Was it not only possible for only 1 character to be High 1-A+ per verse?

    Of course this is assuming that the transferring of the quote to Sub-Creators doesn't shake the quote's usability too much.
    DarkVoid
    Sorry to bother you, but I have a question: What is the Tier of the Inaccessible cardinals and Berkeley cardinals under the new system?
    Elyartaker
    Hello!
    Sorry for bothering, I know you are busy right now.
    But wanted to ask will there be QnA thread about the changes or we can just ask them here?
    since I have a lot of questions not just from myself, but many others that can't speak English hahaha kinda representing them
    Thanks
    View previous comments…
    Elyartaker
    Elyartaker
    oh I see thanks so I might bother you again haha sorry.



    First of all about quantity, can inaccessible amount of baseline outerversal reach high outerversal? or would it still be baseline outerversal since it is still the same quality?

    I was thinking to myself about EMR (extended model realism) and apophatic theology. Can these reach above low outerversal?
    I don't know about the former but the latter might have solid arguments for Tier 0.

    Well it's clear mathematical differences are low outerversal at best.
    so how about math differences in higher qualities? is it possible to have math on a higher quality? For example a character 7 layers into outerversal that scales to inaccessible cardinal on that level of quality (which should be superior to even Mahlo or absolute Infinity of someone 6 layers into outerversal)
    in short, higher quality of math ON that level of quality.
    or are these nonsense and can't be applied?

    we know BDE can reach baseline outerversal, so I assume we can have higher levels of BDE thus higher levels of quality yeah?

    other than BDE, what other hax or existence type can reach outerversal? NEP? also being above dimensionality should be baseline yeah? How about being above concept of dimensionality?

    Finally about nonduality and transduality and plurality or just overall duality since it's confusing for me, how high can it scale? Like can being above it be Tier 0? (this one from a nasuverse fan, mostly for ryougi shiki, asking if anyone or being can reach tier 0 in nasuverse)

    I'm so sorry for asking this much and it's okay if you decide to answer them later.
    Thanks
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    First of all about quantity, can inaccessible amount of baseline outerversal reach high outerversal? or would it still be baseline outerversal since it is still the same quality?

    It would remain baseline, yeah.

    I was thinking to myself about EMR (extended model realism) and apophatic theology. Can these reach above low outerversal?
    I don't know about the former but the latter might have solid arguments for Tier 0.

    Extended Modal Realism is High 1-A+. Though if you take it fully seriously, it's probably not tierable. Not any more than, say, trivialism is.

    As for Apophatic Theology: It's already built into Tier 0, since Tier 0 by necessity entails being so transcendent that you are totally incommensurate with any concept or ontological feature whatsoever, insofar as those exist in a framework of differences, divisions, inequalities, etc. The end result of this is:

    1) Any language applied to it is, at best, analogical in nature. Since our intellection is used to apprehend things that are "such-and-such" and exist inside a system of divisions and differences and whatnot. It doesn't really translate fully when you move beyond this system and into a thing beyond divisions entirely.

    2) It can only be defined in terms of itself. There cannot be a numerical multitude of Tier 0s, and much less can there be something above a Tier 0. So, combined with the above (They're mutually causing in a sense, even), there's no prior, more fundamental thing which you can define a Tier 0 being in relation to. In that vein, it's like, the ultimate primitive notion, pretty much.

    So, yeah, it basically is a form of apophaticism. It just doesn't necessarily enter into the more radical forms of it, where you can't even refer to the thing at all, and every statement about it is an equivocation, and yada yada. Not every form of apophatic theology boils down to that. It's a linguistic method, first and foremost, and the actual concept that it was developed to make sense of is more important. Though usage of apophaticism, of course, generally points to said concept.

    so how about math differences in higher qualities? is it possible to have math on a higher quality? For example a character 7 layers into outerversal that scales to inaccessible cardinal on that level of quality (which should be superior to even Mahlo or absolute Infinity of someone 6 layers into outerversal)
    in short, higher quality of math ON that level of quality.

    Yeah, that can happen.

    we know BDE can reach baseline outerversal, so I assume we can have higher levels of BDE thus higher levels of quality yeah?

    Yeah.

    other than BDE, what other hax or existence type can reach outerversal? NEP?

    I suppose you can describe NEP in a way that nets you 1-A. But that goes for a lot of things, so, not exactly a very meaningful statement.

    also being above dimensionality should be baseline yeah? How about being above concept of dimensionality?

    Depends on how elaborate the statement is. Being described as "above dimensions" even in the correct sense can be Low 1-A, too.

    Finally about nonduality and transduality and plurality or just overall duality since it's confusing for me, how high can it scale? Like can being above it be Tier 0? (this one from a nasuverse fan, mostly for ryougi shiki, asking if anyone or being can reach tier 0 in nasuverse)

    The Root seems very much Tier 0 to me, for what's worth.

    As for the question: Transduality as we currently define it is honestly god-awful. I don't think the power is even inherently quantifiable going by the current treatment of it.
    Elyartaker
    Elyartaker
    Thank you so much
    Everything12
    Hey Ultima, I've got something I want clarifying. How knowledgeable are you on Hilbert Spaces?
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Depends entirely on the content of the actual question. Shoot.
    Everything12
    Everything12
    So am I wrong in thinking that the "infinite dimensions" of Hilbert Space are not Tierable dimensions but instead more properties an objects possesses; including things like velocity, spin, etc. With Hilbert Space not actually being a theoretical physical space but instead a purely mathematical concept, as usable in cosmology scaling as a graph on a piece of paper.

    Speaking of course entirely based on the real life theory and not any additional spin that depends on a specific writers interpretations.
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    I mean, generally speaking, infinite-dimensional hilbert spaces are going to be just mathematical models. They're really just convenient tools to do algebra with; so, in quantum mechanics you'll always see a system of x-many possible states being modelled as a space of x-many dimensions, each state of it corresponding to a vector in that space.

    But they can be actual things, too. I think Max Tegmark, for example, has described a Type III Multiverse as being one where timelines indeed are embedded inside an actual infinite-dimensional space. Those cases are where my knowledge of the topic mostly ceases, though.
    Arianninc
    Ultima can you give input on this?

    vsbattles.com

    Jibaku Shounen - CRT

    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com

    And

    vsbattles.com

    Jibaku Shounen - CRT#2

    This thread will discuss or upgrade the abilities possessed by the characters in this fiction, a continuation of Thread 2-A that I made yesterday. 4th Mystery 4th Mystery is placed by Shijima Mei from the Art Room; she is someone assigned to draw something, and the drawing she creates will...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Excellence616
    Need your input here please

    vsbattles.com

    Marvel Comics: Hell-Lords Lifting Strength Upgrade

    In this thread, Hell-Lord were accepted as Higher Dimensional beings within their realms and Hell Lords share[11] a level of existence[12] with their realms[13], with netherworlds being pan-dimensional realities[14] infinitely transcendent of the universe[15] and Hell-Lords when not in Hell...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    Astral_Trinity439
    Hello, Ultima. I have a question regarding this post of yours, which was used to counter a comment of mine

    Da question : If there are different Space-time continuums with different flows of time and unsynchronized time axes, and than there's a Space those 4D space-times [that is not insignificant], that Space itself would be 4D, than if lets say that 4D space is the spatiality of a higher space-time that contains the prior mentioned Space-times, with the higher space-time having its own Time axis, would that higher space-time be 5D, or still 4D?

    Regards.
    RigelBR7
    Salve Ultima, eu sou aquele rigelbr7 do servidor da dbw. Por quê tem me bloqueou? Poderia me responder só umas duas dúvidas que tenho?
    Yuhady123
    Hello Ultima, do you think Uatu High 1-A is justified? although the word multiverse can be used for Low 1-A universe, There's still an arguments can be made which I can present, Hope you can help.
    LuffyRuffy46307
    If you have some time, could you take a look?
    vsbattles.com

    Dragon Ball Conceptual Manipulation End Closing

    Nothing about the scans proves that time/space is conceptual in general, Daishinkhan could get Type 3 for creating space and time in the WoV though, pending the validity of the statements about it lacking the concepts. That just sounds like pocket reality creation. Also, I’m sure there are...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
    TheGenghistKhan
    Furudo_Erika
    I read the sandbox for the new tiering system and read High 1-A+ is "on the scale of the highest forms of Modal realism and Type IV Multiverses, corresponding to the space of all logically possible worlds ("Logical space")."

    But what about EMR? Which is an extended version of MR that includes all logically possible worlds, as well as all impossible worlds, and High 1-A+ only ever mentions logical worlds; not illogical ones.

    Is EMR "above" High 1-A+ then, if it is "greater" than MR?
    • Like
    Reactions: Churchill
    Ultima_Reality
    Ultima_Reality
    Extended Modal Realism is pretty problematic because it's basically just fancy trivialism in its acceptance of all contradictory things as corresponding to "valid" states-of-affairs. I wouldn't tier it at all, myself, at least not in its full glory. If you water it down a bit it's probably just also High 1-A+, though.
    Furudo_Erika
    Furudo_Erika
    So, would it be an "Unknown" tier?
    Or High 1-A+?

    Or "At least High 1-A+"? As even watered down, EMR should still "embed" MR (possible worlds) in it, alongside the impossible worlds.
    Excellence616
    Your answer will be appreciated

    vsbattles.com

    Tiering System Question

    What qualifies as a higher dimensional bulk space in the context of the Low 2-C definition on the tiering system page? Like say you have this all encompassing “astral sea” and within it are these spheres that represent entire universes. Presupposing they aren’t compactified, would this “astral...
    vsbattles.com vsbattles.com
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