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Dragon Ball Super: Grand Priest Conceptual Manipulation Removal

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Deagonx said:
It's also commonly used as a matter of emphasis in fiction. I recall a spear that could essentially create a portal between itself and the intended target (so you stab forward and it still hits them basically anywhere they are) and it was described as having "no concept of distance." This wasn't literal, it was an expression.
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So, distance didn't exist for the spear's effect, and time itself didn't exist here. Simple as.
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
It's a hard concept for americans like you to understand, but it's a thing in latin american countries like Chile

it's a thing where you get the album with the places to paste in stickers to complete it, and then you have to buy sticker packets in the grocery store or something, where you get random stickers, and it's like a game to get all the stickers you want
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They have these in America BTW, I got one full of Lego Star Wars stuff as a kid.
 
SlendVeny said:
So, distance didn't exist for the spear's effect, and time itself didn't exist here. Simple as.
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Precisely my point. The spear didn't literally lack the concept of distance in a way that was pertinent to our CM standards. It was a figure of speech that simply meant "distance didn't apply" much in the same way time and space don't apply to a void.
 
Deagonx said:
Precisely my point. The spear didn't literally lack the concept of distance in a way that was pertinent to our CM standards. It was a figure of speech that simply meant "distance didn't apply" much in the same way time and space don't apply to a void.
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Ok, counterpoint, dimensions aren't spears, and there would be no reason for them to mention time and space here otherwise. If they said "the concept of time doesn't APPLY" I might see your point, but they said time itself didn't exist.
 
Basically, the Grand Priest was agreed to have added the concept of time to a void with no concept of time. Even putting aside the aforementioned issue, though, I don't think this is the case. This scene demonstrates my point perfectly, so I'll cover the important parts about it here:
  • The pillar drops, and only then does the Grand Priest make note of the time that has elapsed
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This doesn't prove anything, unless the point you're trying to make is GP is not interconnected with every unit of time on an instinctual level.
  • The Grand Priest raises his hand after declaring the tournament half over, and then the background changes - after he does the hand raise.
See the issue here? Rather than the Grand Priest introducing a concept of time, this scene indicates that the pillar was simply created to be some form of measuring it despite the void everyone's in. Not only that, but the tournament background doesn't seem to naturally change to reflect this. Rather, the Grand Priest manually causes this via the raise of his hand.
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This also doesn't prove anything, unless the point you're trying to make is that GP's hand raise should be absent, and that the change of the dimension should be automatic and linked to time itself. Which doesn't address anything about GP introducing time and space conceptually.

That said, I still think DB treats all of this stuff weird. Non-existence not working how it should, time travel not working how it should, etc. Neutral.
 
Damage3245 said:
Why are you acting like this is a hard concept for Americans to grasp? This comment just comes off as needlessly rude.
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Idk, the idea of sticker albums was super weird to the people I explained it to because there’s nothing like that in the US

My point is I tried explaining that the concept was foreign to him, I didn’t know it came off combative or passive aggressive
 
Deagonx said:
I wasn't offended. I get where you're coming from, I guess I assumed he was just trying to say "this isn't something with a direct USA analogue, so it might come off as odd or be hard to wrap your head around."
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Also part of what I was trying to explain is that calling the album a guide might be a little overly generous

It’s like citing merchandise basically

They’re not revealing integral lore in a chile only sticker album. its exactly your Daizenshuu or chozenshuu stating it, per se
 
I think that supports not using this then. In which case, Conceptual Manipulation should be removed. It's just a matter of whether or not it becomes Space-Time Manipulation
 
My inclination is against it. But I'm not especially passionate about the subject. What are your thoughts, Clover?
 
I'm fairly amicable toward it, particularly because of things like Hit being able to Time-Skip in the ToP and Anilaza bending space via sheer power. Since we know the Grand Priest manually prepared the World of Void (as suggested by scans sent by Luffy), adding time and space seems reasonable - especially given that the pillar I mentioned is said to "drop as time passes". This wouldn't be the case if time wasn't in the World of Void, from my understanding.

That being said, I can understand the arguments against it, so I'd be down to compromise with "Possibly Space-Time Manipulation" if it comes to that.
 
Does he get anything from doing it remotely? Since he was building the void basically from the palm of his hand while not being there himself?
 
Ditto.
 
The anime didn't show Grand priest adding time and space in wov. So I'm for, removing the ability completely. I'm going to quote deagon here:
Deagonx said:
The non-lore answer to these sorts of contradictions is usually that the author just did not take it into consideration. Like when two people are in space and are able to speak aloud to eachother even though there's no air to transfer the vibrations.

In situations like that, I am a bit put off by the idea that we should take it upon ourselves as the audience to imagine a solution like "maybe they have special powers that allowed them to communicate verbally in a vacuum." As far as this specific scenario is concerned, "GP adding space and time to this realm" resolves the contradiction, but is there evidence of him doing that? Like, genuine actual evidence that he did something like "added space and time" to a void, or are we taking some incredibly vague scene and saying "well, despite appearances, this non-descript action simply MUST have also added space and time because otherwise the story doesn't make sense!"
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And a possible rating must be based in evidence too
 
Da3ggman said:
Literally how was he being rude? This is essentially just another way of saying that something is very different than anything normal in the states, so we might not fully understand it at first. There’s no need to hound the guy over a common phrase lol.
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I wasn't hounding him - I was pointing out (just once) a specific part of his comment that came off as needlessly rude. Unintentional rudeness does happen from time to time and people who aren't aware of it may benefit from having it pointed out to them.
 
Da3ggman said:
Literally how was he being rude? This is essentially just another way of saying that something is very different than anything normal in the states, so we might not fully understand it at first. There’s no need to hound the guy over a common phrase lol.
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Well, you can explain it to him without the tasty comment
 
Guacamolefletcher said:
They’re not revealing integral lore in a chile only sticker album. its exactly your Daizenshuu or chozenshuu stating it, per se
Click to expand...
Dude, DB is extremely famous in Latin America, there are things that show new information about the work that is only sent here.

Like this Broly comic, which only belongs to Latin America, and what's important about it? Toriyama's direct involvement.

EDIT: I wouldn't be surprised if this sticker album had canonical information, especially when it's an official licensed product from Toei.
 
Damage3245 said:
I wasn't hounding him - I was pointing out (just once) a specific part of his comment that came off as needlessly rude. Unintentional rudeness does happen from time to time and people who aren't aware of it may benefit from having it pointed out to them.
Click to expand...
You’re right, hounding” was the wrong word, and for that, I apologize. However, I still fail to see how anyone can find such a comment as offensive; a stance given validity by the fact that no one else on the entire thread has said anything about it.

Regardless, we should probably just drop this issue, as it’s just sort of distracting from the main point of the thread. Agree to disagree?
 
Da3ggman said:
You’re right, hounding” was the wrong word, and for that, I apologize. However, I still fail to see how anyone can find such a comment as offensive; a stance given validity by the fact that no one else on the entire thread has said anything about it.

Regardless, we should probably just drop this issue, as it’s just sort of distracting from the main point of the thread. Agree to disagree?
Click to expand...
I only intended to leave the one comment on the matter and not get into a whole discussion about it. Nobody else needed to respond to me.
 
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