I believe that the High School DXD profiles need a downgrade

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Ok while I like High School DXD and all that. I'm starting to think that people are wanking them. Statements from Anime like Bleach or Yu Yu Hakusho are always said to be hyperbole because the manga feats prove otherwise or the manga showing different sizes of things.

While for High School DXD Serafall was stated to be able to nuke Japan several times over and everyone instantly seemed to accept it and please note that High School DXD doesn't even have a proper manga or anime and only has a proper Light Novel Series.

Now with what I've said above I would like to downgrade the High School DXD at least until they show actual country busting feats in the manga or Anime. Because it seems unfair to verses like Bleach and YYH that High School DXD is getting a huge benifit of doubt.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, I don't know anything about High School DXD, but the characters don't seem to be ranked very high. Contact the people who edit the pages and discuss the matter with them.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

I believe that they are though. From the day the series started and till this day no one' has downright shown Country Level DC or eve Small Country 'Level DC not in the Manga, Anime or even the Light Novels (this one is debatable as I haven't read Volume 17-19). They have a lot of statements though but they're just that statements. And I believe that we'd just be unfair to a lot of other franchises if High School DXD gets this huge benifit of doubt

I've asked for SeiryuShin's input as well and I can only hope that he replies. I'll ask other peope to give their input. But I can almost absolutely guarantee that no I ask will agree to this.

But thanks for your input. I'll probably keep this thread active for a week or so.

 

[SeiryuShin]

it really wouldn't be much of a downgrade, just that it would be changed to potentially island+/country level since we don't know what "glittering" entails and how long they need to perform this action to destroy Japan.


As for the others, Bleach has that meteor feat, and YYH has that interdimensional laser thing too, so for me the high/top tiers being at least country level threats is legit

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

I agree that it wouldn't be a downgrade so as to speak. But I would prefer that we still keep them as potentially island+/ small country level as we can't exactly confirm they can country bust. And their feats can't exactly be calculated all that much and the best feats would probably Cao Cao more or less blowing up Koyko replica and Longinus Smasher from Issei merged with Great Red.

And aren't their best feats Mountain Level at most. So would probably be Mountain Level to possibly Island or Small Country Level. Some things I disagree with would be Kokabiel being rated as City Level+ through statements when he only showed Multi-City Block Level feats at beast. Everyone instantly acceptng Serafall to be Country Level because she was stated as being country level. There are other things I could list but I won't. And if we give YYH the same benifit of doubt Yusuke should be Planet Level.

I simply find it unfair for other franchises if we become so lenient towards High School DXD while being so strict towards other franchises.

If anyone is wondering why I'm suddenly bringing this up it's because I saw I thread in Anime Vice I think which had a Solar System Busting Issei and it simply made my blood boil for some reason

Edit: Btw thanks for giving your input on this @ SeiryuShin

 

[Antvasima]

I don't have a problem with inserting "possibly" into the profiles, if what you say is true, and there are no feats on that level.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

I'm sure that what I've said is accurate. But I also think that it would be better to wait for more people to respond to this.

 

[DealySinner28]

Well, when I do profiles, I did set the stats to appropriate levels e.g. Cao Cao's tier being 9-A. However, there were some people unsatisfied with this and even changed some of the stats on profiles that I thought were alright.

I think that the reason why people are lenient to DxD's statements and not to other franchises is: the fan service and the fact that there's hardly any known feats for a fair few characters.

Personally, anytime a person makes the tiers and stats higher, it makes me a little frustrated, especially when the profile's locked afterwards. Also, if I did read that thread Schutzen, I would've lost it. I'm actually relieved that someone's questioning this fictional verse.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Those would probably be people who love.... oppai too much.

"I think that the reason why people are lenient to DxD's statements and not to other franchises is: the fan service and the fact that there's hardly any known feats for a fair few characters" And this is why I consider it unfair. It doesn't matter if they have fan service in every single episode. If every single human should have equal rights then every single fictional franchise should have an equal standing between each other and any one franchise shouldn't be given special treatment because of its content.

"Also, if I did read that thread Schutzen, I would've lost it. I'm actually relieved that someone's questioning this fictional verse" You may have lost it huh. You must be a die hard fan of High School DXD. And someone has to take the first step right.

 

[DealySinner28]

I completely agree. Each fictional verse should be treated with the same critical attitude in order to ensure that every detail of the characters is inputted and to not involve personal opinions or statements on them. Statements are usually hyperboles of the person's power, so DxD might not be a good verse to put on this wiki, since it mainly contains exaggerations of one's power.

Then again, we do get to know about the main character's durability, which (By looking on the tiers) would qualify some characters as the tiers they are, since it states that the character must either: be able to destroy an object of the described size, tank an attack of that level or easily harm other characters with that level of durability. However, this guideline at times won't work e.g. Cao Cao's Longinus bypasses the durability of Devils and easily kills them.

Although I may be a fan of DxD, I do have limits. By the end of the series, I think Issei would only be Island Level at best, which makes me a little baffled that people put their expectations to Solar System Level. The Jabbawocky feat is pretty much useless for Issei as well, since he uses Great Red's power, not his own, so that argument to make him Country Level should be invalid.

 

[CrossverseCrisis]

That is what should be said for all fictional series, that each fictional verse should treated fairly based on what they are truly capable of instead of what people think they can do that may be out of their reach of power(hax abilities is included, mind y'all).

It's like when i thought of Asura and Chrakravartin from Asura's Wrath as being 3-A, with Asura being higher than Chakra considering he defeated him in the game. That was it until SeryuShin pointed out on the fact that the game never explained how long it took him to create the Asura's Wrath universe and that he and Asura were downgraded to either 3-C/or 3-B. Not that it matters since i'm perfectly fine with it anyways.

So there have been people who think Issei is solar system level, ehh? While i'm not a particular fan of DxD, i'm not fond of people who claim a character is that strong when really he or she are not even close to that level of power. Unless they have any hax abilities then that would may make sense, but if not then we're going to deal with wankers and fan(boy)s.

 

[Crimson_Ōkami]

There's this guy on narutoforums that does some calcs on highschool of dxd, his calcs might clear things up http://www.narutoforums.com/member.php?u=233318

 

[SeiryuShin]

none of those calcs support planet level top tiers except through statements and assuming multiplicative boosts outside what is actually shown from issei's feats

 

[Coolkid_11]

Country level is being generious.

 

[SwordSlayer99]

I agree with SchutzenDunkelZiel1217. I think they should be downgraded.

 

[Sheoth]

In my sincerely HONEST opinon, after hearing shit like SOLAR SYSTEM Level Issei, GALAXY Level Sirzechs, UNIVERSAL Ophis....MFTL Planet Busting Rias...Then...

I have to agree with @SchutzenDunkelZiel1217

The franchise has little to no feats to support all the statements that are made.

But an extreme downgrade shouldn't be done for everyone imo. We should either temporarily put them at a more reasonable lower level until more feats are shown, or put POSSIBLE [insert tier] for the questionable characters.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

It isn't really that much of a downgrade for example for Issei's Tier it would say 7-A as he only ever showed mountain busting capabilities to Possibly Low 6-B.

If everyone agrees with this I'll change the profiles to like this. But for Kokabiel though I'm gonna have to ask that he be 8-A to Possibly 7-C as he only had feats that are Large Buliding at best.

Btw what about the speeds though are they accurate.

 

[Sheoth]

I'm fine with it personally.

But I don't really know how accurate the speed is. I don't think there are any calcs for it

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Then I guess the speed stays as it is.

I guess I'll wait a day or more for other people to give their input before changing anything.

 

[TrickyChips]

There's actually a potential feat that could, at the least, support country level high tiers;

"I suppose it could be called that. Apparently, there seemed to be "night" in the originally sunless and moonless Underworld as well. The sky was also dark. When I looked up at the sky, there was a false moon floating up there. They said that it wasn't the real one, but it had been reproduced using magic. The night's darkness in the Underworld was made the same as back home. Apparently it was originally purple in this world. Then, when I entered this place before, it was daytime in this world, huh. The flow of time here seemed to match the human world. It seemed that the underworld had its own flow of time here, but it seemed that, for the sake of reincarnated devils and those that lived in the human world, the Maous had adjusted it to match using a special method. So that it wouldn't be an "Urashima Taro situation"[6] for them. The reverse of that as well. The Fallen Angel region of this world also seems to be the same."

So basically the Maous pooled their power together to create an artificial moon and adjust time on a plantery scale (the Underworld is the same size as Earth, it just has more landmass since there are no oceans).

Though it's certainly true that no-one has actually done a quantifiable country-level attack. For speed there is this calc;


"That moment, Akeno entered my sight as she gave off a crackling golden aura from her entire body. Akeno-san—had a cold look in her tear-soaked eyes and was giving off a strange aura. "…Even though I tried to show Ise-kun my determination…" She went forward a step on with wobbly and shaky legs. I could feel a strong pressure in that step that couldn't be expressed in words. "…Even though I tried to overcome it…by using this hateful power in front of him…" Akeno-san slowly raised her hands in front of her and—. "I won't forgive you." She showed the natural face of her S-side! The number one state that Akeno-san shouldn't be touched in! Impossible, to think that the usually calm Akeno-san would react to losing Ise-kun like this! "—Disappear." After that brief anger-filled declaration, a great mass of thunder sprung forth from Akeno-san's hands and swooped down on the Sitri [Bishop] Kusaka-san! Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooon! "Reverse!" At the instant of impact, Kusaka-san spread out her hands and tried to reverse the thunder, but—. Bigagagagagagagagagagagagagagagagagagagaga!! The violent thunder wrapped around Kusaka-san! Kusaka-san couldn't reverse the thunder and directly received Akeno-san's attack! And at the same time, she was wrapped in light and disappeared! "It seems it was useless. She tried to reverse the thunder, but what I shot just now was lightning. Thunder and light. The reverse of the light portion wasn't enough to reverse it all."

Akeno's always had cloud-to-ground lightning since Vol.1, so I don't really know what this bullshit about thunder and lightning is, but whatever.

The two groups were close enough to each other to hold a conversation face to face, Kiba and the other sword user were ready to start melee-fighting each other, and [Reverse] girl also managed to get close enough to use her ability on Asia's AoE healing, so I'm gonna assume the distance between them is 5m or less. Simply extending your arm is probably only moving about a meter, so we'll use that.

Distance between them: 5m Distance moved: 1m Speed of Akeno's lightning: 150 km/s Timeframe: 5/150000 = .00003333 1/.00003333 = 30003 m/s or mach 88.244

This girl is literally the lowest of the low tiers in the grand scheme of things"

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=25503

Though whether they're accepted by everyone or not is fine, since there are still a couple of calcs that put mid-tier characters on at least city+/Island level.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

What I'm asking for is to put the Characters Profiles at lower tier until the Anime or manga catches up for the feats to actually be seen and accounted for. Not just statements from the Light Novels. And if we go by statements then Bleach should be Planet Level Right now and FTL. This is all I'm asking for wait for the Manga or Anime feats not statements from the Light Novels as it seems unfair for other verses.

Akeno's lightning is magic lightning so you can't exactly apply normal lightning speed here.

"there are still a couple of calcs that put mid-tier characters on at least city+/Island level" Can you provide the link to them. And I do hope that they're from the Anime or manga as if they're from the Light Novels I'll disregard them right away for the above reasons.

 

[TrickyChips]

Well no, the light novels are a higher form of canon, and the anime has decided to deviate somewhat from the light novels, meaning what happens in it can't be said for the series as a whole. The manga is still way back in Vol 3, and has trouble finding people to translate, so it will probably be years until it has anywhere near enough content to be looked at properly

 

[TrickyChips]

I guess what i'm saying is if you disregard the feats from light novels, you may as well disregard the DxD pages as a whole, since neither the anime or light novels have the feats or content in general to warrant having profiles for.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Even still the Anime will mostly be from the Light Novels. Then I'm gonna have to say that the Profiles as a whole can't exactly be accepted. There should be equality amongst Franchises as there is equality between humans. And it's being very unfair to franchises like Yu Yu Hakusho as most statements from the YYH is mainly disregarded same thing for bleach and a lot of other franchises.

Edit: Almot exactly the same thing I'm saying here.

 

[TrickyChips]

I'm not talking about the statements but about the actual feats that have been performed in the light novels. For example, there would be a massive downgrade to balance breaker Issei simply because he didn't destroy a mountain in the anime (lesser canon) like he did in the light novels (higher canon). Fenrir will be downgraded since he got nerfed to the shithouse in the anime (he couldn't break a holy-demonic sword barrier and was being stalled by Kiba and Xenovia) whereas he was fighting on par with Juggernaut Drive Vali in the lights novels.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Sigh as we can't exactly see things in the Light Novels its more statements than feats. And feats > statements > fans wanting it to be higher. Even if they are nerfed in the Anime we have to consider them as more canon as we can actually see the feats and no rely on things stated which has an equal possibility of being true or false.

I'll have to watch the Anime now for an even more of a downgrade Muhahahaha. That's what being fair to all franchises mean. We don't like it but we have to accept it.

 

[TrickyChips]

Well that's just your opinion on it, how it actually goes is whatever came out first is the higher form of canon. DxD light novels are the higher form of canon-always has been and always will be. If you go about deciding whats canon and whats not all for the sake of appearances then just scrap every DxD profile, since they wont have any degree of truth to them.

 

[Antvasima]

If the light novels are the original canon, then they should certainly count at least as much as the manga and anime.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Ok let me just ask you just this. The mountain Issei destroyed how can you say it's was actually erased from existance did ya see it cuz I believe just destroying a good portion of a mountain is stated as destroying the mountain most of the time.

So according to you something which we hear but can't see to confirm is more canon than something which we can see and confirm for ourselves. I certainly don'y agree with ths and I doubt a lot of people do.

"If you go about deciding whats canon and whats not all for the sake of appearances then just scrap every DxD profile, since they wont have any degree of truth to them"

Hm I'm doing this for the sake of appearances but what's more reliable something you can see and confirm for youself or omething you can't see and not confirm for youself. Oh and yes I intend to scrap a ton of information off the DXD profiles.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Please provide proof that the Light Novels are more canon than the Manga or Anime. The light Novels may have come out first but that doesn't mean it'll be absolutely correct. The Anime and Manga could have been better modificaton of the LN.

And I've just got to ask why the hell is everyone giving High School DXD so much benifit of doubt just why I mean for other franchises people would shout Hyperbole or Outliner. Why should it be any different for High School DXD

 

[TrickyChips]

It's not meant to have every specific detail mentioned because it's meant to be left to your imagination, not be scrutinized by a bunch of people who have nothing better to do than make profiles on fictional character's powerlevels. But yes, the exact quote was;

"Hahahaha! It's been a long time since I've seen that red blast! Hyoudou Issei! An entire mountain far away from here completely vanished just now! Also, the barrier covering this area has been blown off as well!"

The whole thing was destoyed. But anyway, if you intend to pander to 'fans' though such bias then I won't have any part of it.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

"Hahahaha! It's been a long time since I've seen that red blast! Hyoudou Issei! An entire mountain far away from here completely vanished just now! Also, the barrier covering this area has been blown off as well!" It's still a statement but even then I agree with it and the only statements I'm questioning are the Country Busting Satans and the one which put Kokabiel as a City Buster.

"The whole thing was destoyed. But anyway, if you intend to pander to 'fans' though such bias then I won't have any part of it" Yo it aien't bias. it's just a matter of fairness to other franchises.

But I'm still gonna ask please provide proof that the Light Novels are more canon than the Manga or Anime.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with TrickyChips on this one. If the light novels, that came out first, and the manga and anime are derivatives of, clearly describe mountains to be destroyed, then that is certainly just as valid as if it happened in a manga or anime, and necessary for gauging other light novels, such as To Aru, and similar.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Seriously guys. All I'm asking is for the tiers to be something like Issei's for example Tier: 7-A to Possibly Low 6-B.

And I've said this before but I agree with mountain busting Issei I just don't agree with country busting.

@ TrickyChips: Just as a question have there been feats of countries being destroyed by Satans or other characters in the LN not just they can destroy countries but has it actually happened.

 

[TrickyChips]

It's not a matter of proving anything, Ishibumi first started with the DxD light novels, and the anime and manga were then based on them. As far as I know, Ishibumi had no direct involvement with either the anime or the manga either.

 

[TrickyChips]

I'll agree on the country level stuff since no feat has been shown (yet), and will change it later, but there are a couple of actual feats from the light novels that put characters on Balance Breaker Issei's level at city+/island level, and so will change the profiles as neccessary.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Ok disregard the provide proof thing. But still Country Busting can't be accepted. I still stand by this.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Balance Breaker Issei being City Level I can agree Island Level no way in hell. The profiles need the Low 6-B tiering removed from them.

 

[TrickyChips]

"Hahahaha! It's been a long time since I've seen that red blast! Hyoudou Issei! An entire mountain far away from here completely vanished just now! Also, the barrier covering this area has been blown off as well!" Tannin-ossan said that from the sky above A mountain!? An entire mountain vanished!? I didn't even fire it with particularly doubled power!?

Average mountain mass: 3e14 kg

Density of rock: 2600 kg/m^3

Average mountain volume: 1.154e17 cm^3

Pulverization of rock: 214.35 j/cc

DC of Balance Breaker Issei's Dragon Shot: 2.473e19 J or 5.91 gigatons of TNT

I'll say it again because it bears repeating. This is his Balance Breaker's power BEFORE HE EVEN STARTS BOOSTING."

http://www.narutoforums.com/blog.php?b=25463

The actual calc puts it at island level, but city+ is a safe low end to go with since we don't know the size of the mountain.

 

[SchutzenDunkelZiel1217]

Hm a calc based entirely on statements. Nothing new I'm still not accepting it though ask one of the admins if its acceptable. But if it is I'm gonna have a huge laugh as it has a ton of assumptions.