Sigilavox
He/Him- 402
- 212
Hello. This is a CRT for the accepted Kushala Daora recalc to buff it (and monsters that scale to it) up to 191.76 Gigatons, or High 6-C.
This thread will also be the hub to discuss the so-called "Elder Level" monsters and which Elder Dragons actually scale to it.
First, we'll list our exemptions:
Alright, let's discuss.
Kushala-tier due to fighting Kushala
Let's start easy; these are the monsters with whom Kushala has a turf war. All of these results end in a tie, implying they are comparable with each other.
Addendum: A statement from the Dive Into Iceborne book claiming that Furious Rajang is "Super Elder Tier" unlike base Rajang, which is "Elder Tier" - Nergigante is also listed in "Super Elder Tier", but that is a separate discussion. We know that both of these monsters scale to Kushala at least, so I believe we should list both as "At least High 6-C, possibly higher".
Kushala-tier due to fighting Kushala-level monsters
Monsters with Equal HRP to Kushala (No Feats)
These monsters have no feats but grant an equal amount of reward money and HRP to Kushala or Kushala-level monsters.
Instead, at equal star rank, HRP and quest money determine how monsters compare with each other. This is why, despite Zinogre (HRP 1120) being MR6 in Iceborne, it is not considered more powerful than a MR5 Velkhana (HRP 1260). Monsters with higher HRP rewards are considered stronger; note that this logic is not stated anywhere but merely implied with harder and more dangerous quests granting more HRP, so is not fully ironclad.
Potentially Higher than Kushala Tier due to HRP (No Feats)
The following monsters are all fought at the same rank as Kushala in 4 Ultimate and GU but give more money and HRP than Kushala in GU.
Slightly Off-Kushala-tier Elders
These monsters are lower than Kushala in rewards in games they share, with one exception.
“Hell if I know” Elder Dragon tier
These monsters are also Elder Dragons, but have zero feats or statements comparing them to Kushala:
"Elder Dragon Level" Monsters
These are the rest of the "Elder Dragon level monsters" who have no feats or direct statements placing them aside Kushala Daora.
Variation Species
Less sure about whether these should scale to Kushala, since there aren't really any strong statements going one way or the other iirc.
Addendum for Gogmazios
As an aside, Gogmazios is fought in 4 Ultimate at the same rank as Shah Dalamadur (at the end of G-Rank), granting the exact same reward money and HRP as the Eternal Emperor, which is higher than Kushala. So, it might be comparable to Shah Dalamadur by that logic. I suggest that we consider Gogmazios on par with Shah Dalamadur (and hence at least equal to Dalamadur), which I believe is Small Country level for shaking the earth.
This thread will also be the hub to discuss the so-called "Elder Level" monsters and which Elder Dragons actually scale to it.
First, we'll list our exemptions:
Fatalis, Crimson Fatalis, White Fatalis, Alatreon, Dire Miralis, possibly Oltura, Zorah Magdaros, Xeno'jiiva, Dalamadur, Shah Dalamadur
Kirin, Gore Magala
Alright, let's discuss.
Kushala-tier due to fighting Kushala
Let's start easy; these are the monsters with whom Kushala has a turf war. All of these results end in a tie, implying they are comparable with each other.
Addendum: A statement from the Dive Into Iceborne book claiming that Furious Rajang is "Super Elder Tier" unlike base Rajang, which is "Elder Tier" - Nergigante is also listed in "Super Elder Tier", but that is a separate discussion. We know that both of these monsters scale to Kushala at least, so I believe we should list both as "At least High 6-C, possibly higher".
Kushala-tier due to fighting Kushala-level monsters
- Bazelgeuse (here) ties with Rajang
- Deviljho (here) ties with Bazelgeuse (+1 degree of separation)
- Savage Deviljho (here) ties with Rajang
- Blackveil Vaal Hazak (here) ties with Rajang
Monsters with Equal HRP to Kushala (No Feats)
These monsters have no feats but grant an equal amount of reward money and HRP to Kushala or Kushala-level monsters.
- Vaal Hazak
- It no-sells Odogaron, but this is the one, single feat we have
- Its quest rewards are identical to Kushala Daora
- Chameleos
- It has a tendency to be put in games alongside Kushala and Teostra as part of a trio
- It has the same HRP reward as the other two in Monster Hunter 4 Ultimate, Generations Ultimate, and Rise
- Raging Brachydios
- Compared with Furious Rajang, it has equal HRP rewards in Iceborne and gives greater HRP in 4 Ultimate and Generations Ultimate
Instead, at equal star rank, HRP and quest money determine how monsters compare with each other. This is why, despite Zinogre (HRP 1120) being MR6 in Iceborne, it is not considered more powerful than a MR5 Velkhana (HRP 1260). Monsters with higher HRP rewards are considered stronger; note that this logic is not stated anywhere but merely implied with harder and more dangerous quests granting more HRP, so is not fully ironclad.
Potentially Higher than Kushala Tier due to HRP (No Feats)
The following monsters are all fought at the same rank as Kushala in 4 Ultimate and GU but give more money and HRP than Kushala in GU.
- Akantor
- It’s equal in rewards to Kushala in 4U and slightly higher rewards than Kushala in GU
- Final boss of MHF2
- Ukanlos
- Same justification as Akantor
- Final boss of MHFU
- Amatsu
- Not present in 4 Ultimate, but in GU it’s in the same spot as Akantor and Ukanlos
- Final boss of MH Portable 3rd, a game without Kushala, Teostra, or Chameleos
- Ahtal-Ka
- In GU, it’s far above Kushala in terms of HRP and money rewards, and is in fact...
- Final boss of MHGU
- Nakarkos
- Similar rewards as Ahtal-Ka in GU
- Final boss of MHGen iirc
- Crimson Glow Valstrax
- In Rise, it grants far more rewards than Kushala (1680 HRP vs. 1050 HRP) and is locked until HR 100 unlike Kushala's HR 30. Furthermore, it is given a Threat Level of "10", higher than Kushala's "8". This is kept in Sunbreak, when CGV is locked to MR 70 while Kushala is fought during the story at MR 5.
Slightly Off-Kushala-tier Elders
These monsters are lower than Kushala in rewards in games they share, with one exception.
- Valstrax (It grants significantly fewer HRP and money rewards in GU, its introductory game, when compared with Kushala Daora and co.)
- It's not quite lower to the degree Kirin is - since Kirin is only fought in G3 hub, while Valstrax is fought a whole level up in G4 along with Kushala.
- I propose we simply state "High 6-C" since it's still in the same "league" as Kushala, just clearly lower.
- Shagaru Magala
- Its home game, MH4U, treated Kushala as requiring more preparation and allies to face than Shagaru, who was killed single-handedly by the player character earlier in the story.
- Shagaru was later downgraded to the star below Kushala in Generations.
- GU raised it back to the same level as Kushala (LR 3* Hub/G4 Hub)… yet it still gave fewer rewards than Kushala, i.e. 560 HRP vs. 700 HRP.
- This changed in Sunbreak, where it actually gives more rewards than Kushala; its quest gives 1420 HRP while Kushala’s gives 1400.
- I have no bloody clue where to go with this. "At least High 8-C, likely High 6-C"?
“Hell if I know” Elder Dragon tier
These monsters are also Elder Dragons, but have zero feats or statements comparing them to Kushala:
- Lao-Shan Lung
- Siege hunt, so it's in a different format than Kushala. Never seen fighting anything, just running from a Fatalis once.
- Yama Tsukami
- Siege hunt-ish, it's only in one game and never came back. shrugs
- Ceadeus
- Its only games did not have Kushala in them, and it is believed that adult Ceadeus hunt Nakarkos, or that the latter hunt juvenile Ceadeus. I don't really remember. If it does actually hunt Nakarkos, we can probably justify a High 6-C, likely higher rating from that alone.
- Jhen Mohran
- Siege hunt. Never seen fighting any other monster.
- Dah’ren Mohran
- In 4U, this guy’s quest gives more rewards than Kushala, but it’s also a siege/ship quest in different format than a normal hunt.
- Never seen fighting any other monster.
- A group of sandskiffs and some artillery weapons were enough to kill one; even a non-militarized settlement like Val Habar could fend one off, as opposed to the fortified Guild headquarters Dundorma, which needed unique technology, the entire Ace Hunter squad, and a bunch of artillery to just repel Kushala
"Elder Dragon Level" Monsters
These are the rest of the "Elder Dragon level monsters" who have no feats or direct statements placing them aside Kushala Daora.
- Silver Rathalos & Gold Rathian
- There isn’t any explicit confirmation from an official (non-wiki) source that these creatures are comparable to Kushala Daora...
- BUT it is mentioned in the Iceborne Dive book that Silverlos and Goldian were hypothesized to be planning to use the Nergigante nest as their own, whereas normal Rathalos and Rathian do not lair in the Elder’s Recess. So perhaps they may be comfortable with living in a locale in which Elder Dragons (including Kushala Daora) are relatively common, placing them astride the rest.
- If these two monsters are accepted to be on par with Kushala, then all of the following should be also considered, despite again not having any statements or feats confirming Kushala-level power.
- S&G are fought at the same time as Abyssal Lagiacrus and Lucent Nargacuga in MH3U
- S&G are fought at the same time as Molten Tigrex in MH4U
- Laviente
- It's so fricken big..
- But we haven't collected official evidence, if any, that it scales to Kushala.
Variation Species
Less sure about whether these should scale to Kushala, since there aren't really any strong statements going one way or the other iirc.
- Apex (4U)
- Apexes are an unknown category to me. Apex Deviljho obviously makes sense as being on par, but what else?
- Deviant (Gen, MHGU)
- Deviants are an unknown category to me. Can someone who played GU help out?
- If there are any, which statements or feats support Deviant = Elder level?
- Tempered non-Elder (World)
- Tempered monsters have the Dive Into Monster Hunter: World statements that blue scoutflies indicate “Elder Level power”, but this is contradicted by Deviljho, Bazelgeuse, Rajang, Frostfang Barioth, etc. not triggering blue scoutflies in the same game/expansion of the same game.
- Apex (Rise)
- Apex (Rise) monsters have nothing except a “Threat Level” equal to or above Kushala Daora. They were said to survive being in a windstorm caused by Wind Serpent Ibushi, possibly placing them at the latter's baseline Small Country level when the God Serpents get their own pages, but I'm skeptical since we don't actually see how it happens. I'd probably put them as "At least High 8-C, possibly Low 6-B". We can discuss this down below.
Addendum for Gogmazios
As an aside, Gogmazios is fought in 4 Ultimate at the same rank as Shah Dalamadur (at the end of G-Rank), granting the exact same reward money and HRP as the Eternal Emperor, which is higher than Kushala. So, it might be comparable to Shah Dalamadur by that logic. I suggest that we consider Gogmazios on par with Shah Dalamadur (and hence at least equal to Dalamadur), which I believe is Small Country level for shaking the earth.
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