Tenten with Broom Beard's Tools Solos One Piece (Naruto: Hagoromo Ōtsutsuki Overhaul)

[Padaruyos]

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[UchihaSlayer96]

Well, it seems like you're under a few misconceptions here, so I'm going to do my best to try and clear them up.

I'm sus of separating JJ Hagoromo from Ghost Hagoromo when he still does seem to have the Juubi's power, possessing the Magatama markings indicative of Six Paths Senjutsu. I mean I know he took the Juubi out of himself when he was nearing his death so it doesn't make much sense, but it also doesn't make sense for him to still have those abilities if the source of them are gone,

You seem to be insinuating that someone having Six Paths Senjutsu necessitates them being Juubi Jinchuriki, which is just blatantly false.

You have Naruto, who had Six Paths Senjutsu without being a true Juubi Jinchuriki as he.....doesn't house the Juubi nor the Gedo Mazo. (Although he is a weird case, and there might be some middle ground with him, I'll grant you that)
You have Asura.
You have Toneri.
You have Hamura.
You have Obito.
You have Hagoromo himself. And before you even say anything, this is definitely Pre-JJ as it would be a bigger assumption to say that Kaguya is somehow having a flashback of a Hagoromo she literally never saw.

So, your premise here is not only illogical by your own admission, it is also very clearly contradicted within the series.

like how Naruto lost Six Paths Senjutsu in Boruto.

Naruto did not lose his Six Paths Senjutsu. Nothing really indicates that he did, and it is not really what is currently accepted on the wiki. We're currently going off the premise that he's still using Six Paths Sage Mode.

I think I know what you may be referring to, though. I'm assuming you're thinking of his lack of TSOs, or him not flying around anymore. Regarding the TSOs, they were all destroyed in Part II. Not all Six Paths Senjutsu users have shown the ability to form TSBs out of naught, especially not when they're destroyed (Pretty much only Kaguya creates one deliberately, instead of it kinda spawning into existence upon entering Six Paths Mode). As for flight, we did see him flying on two occasions, once in the Last and once in the Bort anime.

Either way, this is a topic I'm mostly neutral on, and am not invested in. Additionally, it is completely irrelevant to this debate in any case.

We also see that dying Hagoromo looks different from him in the afterlife, so he might've just been brought back to his prime in the afterlife or something.

Brother, what are you on about with this? He looks the exact same as his ghost self lmao....

SPSM Naruto and Rinnegan Sasuke's powers definitely don't just come from Hagoromo.

I assure you, they did.

On his own, Naruto awakened Six Paths Senjutsu due to having the chakra of all 9 Bijuu, and his chakra cloak is a product entirely of the Bijuu charka in him.

This is false. Like, objectively. It was never stated that Naruto gained Six Paths Sage Mode due to the 9 Biju's chakra.
It was, however, stated on many occasions that it was a power granted to him directly by Hagoromo.

The preponderance of the evidence is conclusively on my side, here. How many statements do we need before we acknowledge the obvious? A billion?

Sasuke was "given" the Rinnegan by Hagoromo, but he was given the foundations of it by having Hashirama's chakra both handed over by the guy himself and having Kabuto inject him with Hashirama cells, meaning Hagoromo probably just helped speed the process up.

This......is complete head canon.
Rinnegan manifestation took Madara literal decades to achieve with the conditions you just mentioned.

So, I ask this: Do we really ignore the swaths of evidence at our disposal pointing towards the idea that Hagoromo granted Sasuke this power of his in favor of a possible interpretation that was never really confirmed in any meaningful way? That just doesn't make sense to me.

---

In regards to both of the above points, here's the thing. Naruto having the Biju's chakra and Sasuke possessing Indra and Asura's chakra really only achieved ONE thing here. It allowed Hagoromo's chakra to manifest. We know for a fact that he can only manifest in the Edo realm through these conditions. These are the "conditions" he's referring to here.
However, the chakra and powers Naruto and Sasuke received were directly given to them by Hagoromo. This is just an indisputable fact.

Sasuke also had the Sharingan before Hagoromo gave him anything, so that'd still be a factor in his strength after the Six Paths amp.

I'm sorry, but I find this laughable because EMS Sasuke, let alone 3 tomoe Sasuke, was folded pretty handily prior to his Hagoromo amp by a 6-B character. Hell, he was barely fighting a High 6-B character with his strongest Ninjutsu while heavily amped from two external sources (CM Senjutsu + Kurama's chakra). Don't give me this nonsense about "his strength". His strength is pretty irrelevant to what he ended up becoming.
The man went from having his strongest Ninjutsu blocked by Juubito, to cutting Madara in half. He went from getting his amped Susano'o wrecked by a slam from Obito, to physically tanking hits from Madara and getting slammed by Kaguya. To think that the chakra he received from Hagoromo wasn't a major contributing factor to him reaching this level is quite frankly just silly imo.

Then you have Naruto, whose Six Paths Sage Mode alone allowed him to contend with Madara. This is pertinent because we know that Six Paths Sage Mode utilizes the SPC that Hags gave Naruto, and none of his own really. He had no SPC to speak of. This is obviously ignoring the obvious fact that base Naruto is an absolute non-factor here, and that he was implied to have little to no chakra left at that point, anyway.

Was the chakra he gave 100% responsible for everything? No. Was it a huge contributing factor? Absolutely.

And they both have ninjutsu that Hagoromo doesn't that allows them to fight in ways he couldn't, like how Naruto countered Madara's CTs with Rasenshurikens, or how Sasuke knocked Kaguya away with the Perfect Susanoo. Saying he scales to their ninjutsu is quite hard to prove, especially since chakra isn't a UES anymore. So wording it like Ghost Hagoromo's AP is simply Naruto+Sasuke is a bit omissive. Maybe saying he aided them in being able to fight Madara and Kaguya is fine, but not all on his own.

You're just making a lot of claims and assertions regarding things I literally never said.
Here's the current description:

Shared his chakra and power with Naruto and Sasuke[132][161], which empowered them[104] to the point of being able to compete with the likes of Jūbi Jinchūriki Madara Uchiha[132] and Kaguya Ōtsutsuki

As you can clearly see, there's not a single mention of anything remotely implying that he's "Naruto + Sasuke in terms of AP" or that he scales to any specific Jutsu of theirs. If that were the case, I would've scaled Ghost Hagoromo to the 177 Exatons value, which I clearly did not do.

The description implies nothing more than what it plainly says. Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke power. That much is a fact. Said power allowed them to bridge a massive power gap and compete with certain individuals their previous peaks of power had no chance of competing against. No further assumptions nor extrapolations were made beyond stating the fact of the matter. It is that simple.

Other than that, OMG THAT'S A LOTTA ABILITIES AND SCANS GOATED JOB

Why thank you! That might be the only compliment you ever gave me lmfao

 

[DavidTPPM]

Looks good. Also looks like it took 7 years to do with how detailed it is

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I guess this can be applied now, right?

 

[DavidTPPM]

2 admins seem to agree with everything except Hagoromo having ameno. Is that enough? (idk anything about how many staff approvals or member approvals one needs lol)

 

[Excellence616]

I guess this can be applied now, right?

Yes. already pass 48hrs

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Well, it seems like you're under a few misconceptions here, so I'm going to do my best to try and clear them up.

You seem to be insinuating that someone having Six Paths Senjutsu necessitates them being Juubi Jinchuriki, which is just blatantly false.

You have Naruto, who had Six Paths Senjutsu without being a true Juubi Jinchuriki as he.....doesn't house the Juubi nor the Gedo Mazo. (Although he is a weird case, and there might be some middle ground with him, I'll grant you that)
You have Asura.
You have Toneri.
You have Hamura.
You have Obito.
You have Hagoromo himself. And before you even say anything, this is definitely Pre-JJ as it would be a bigger assumption to say that Kaguya is somehow having a flashback of a Hagoromo she literally never saw.

So, your premise here is not only illogical by your own admission, it is also very clearly contradicted within the series.

I'll agree to this point.

Naruto did not lose his Six Paths Senjutsu. Nothing really indicates that he did, and it is not really what is currently accepted on the wiki. We're currently going off the premise that he's still using Six Paths Sage Mode.

But this nah. Yes he still has Six Paths Sage Mode, but Six Paths Sage Mode =/= Six Paths Senjutsu, despite them sounding so similar. As you yourself state later, SPSM is a specific form given to him by Hagoromo, but SPS is just an enhanced version of Sage Mode usually associated with the Juubi/Otsustuki. We know Madara wasn't given anything by Hagoromo, but he still had SPS. Naruto doesn't have SPS anymore as you can see from his back, which lacke the 9 Magatama markings indicative of it.

I think I know what you may be referring to, though. I'm assuming you're thinking of his lack of TSOs, or him not flying around anymore. Regarding the TSOs, they were all destroyed in Part II. Not all Six Paths Senjutsu users have shown the ability to form TSBs out of naught, especially not when they're destroyed (Pretty much only Kaguya creates one deliberately, instead of it kinda spawning into existence upon entering Six Paths Mode). As for flight, we did see him flying on two occasions, once in the Last and once in the Bort anime.

Either way, this is a topic I'm mostly neutral on, and am not invested in. Additionally, it is completely irrelevant to this debate in any case.

Not really? Since if he did gain Six Paths Senjutsu from his bonds with the Bijuu, that's a power he gained separate from Hagoromo's influence.

Brother, what are you on about with this? He looks the exact same as his ghost self lmao....

His hair looks grayer and his face more wrinkly. Might be a slight retcon tho.

I assure you, they did.

This is false. Like, objectively. It was never stated that Naruto gained Six Paths Sage Mode due to the 9 Biju's chakra.
It was, however, stated on many occasions that it was a power granted to him directly by Hagoromo.

The preponderance of the evidence is conclusively on my side, here. How many statements do we need before we acknowledge the obvious? A billion?

Again, SPSM =/= SPS, and that still doesn't address the chakra cloak which is separate from SPSM. Even on the current profile, pure SPSM Naruto is only 44 Exatons while it's his chakra cloak from the Bijuu with which he fights later versions of Madara and Kaguya.

This......is complete head canon.
Rinnegan manifestation took Madara literal decades to achieve with the conditions you just mentioned.

So, I ask this: Do we really ignore the swaths of evidence at our disposal pointing towards the idea that Hagoromo granted Sasuke this power of his in favor of a possible interpretation that was never really confirmed in any meaningful way? That just doesn't make sense to me.

---

I mean Madara did state it happened when he was close to death, and a similar situation happened with Sasuke even if it was with different conditions.

In regards to both of the above points, here's the thing. Naruto having the Biju's chakra and Sasuke possessing Indra and Asura's chakra really only achieved ONE thing here. It allowed Hagoromo's chakra to manifest. We know for a fact that he can only manifest in the Edo realm through these conditions. These are the "conditions" he's referring to here.
However, the chakra and powers Naruto and Sasuke received were directly given to them by Hagoromo. This is just an indisputable fact.

No, it's an indisputable fact that some of their chakra and powers were given by Hagoromo, and that that was a starting point from which they grew, not the end.

I'm sorry, but I find this laughable because EMS Sasuke, let alone 3 tomoe Sasuke, was folded pretty handily prior to his Hagoromo amp by a 6-B character. Hell, he was barely fighting a High 6-B character with his strongest Ninjutsu while heavily amped from two external sources (CM Senjutsu + Kurama's chakra). Don't give me this nonsense about "his strength". His strength is pretty irrelevant to what he ended up becoming.
The man went from having his strongest Ninjutsu blocked by Juubito, to cutting Madara in half. He went from getting his amped Susano'o wrecked by a slam from Obito, to physically tanking hits from Madara and getting slammed by Kaguya. To think that the chakra he received from Hagoromo wasn't a major contributing factor to him reaching this level is quite frankly just silly imo.

I know you hate Boruto, but I gotta bring it up. The Sharingan clearly is still a significant boost for Six Paths Sasuke in the anime against Momoshiki, it's not Base Six Paths Sasuke + Pre-Six Sasuke's Sharingan. Just like how the Susanoo is still a big boost for Rinnegan Sasuke despite doing nothing against much weaker characters prior, so can the Sharingan. You argue techniques being linear boosts a lot when it's often not like that.

Then you have Naruto, whose Six Paths Sage Mode alone allowed him to contend with Madara. This is pertinent because we know that Six Paths Sage Mode utilizes the SPC that Hags gave Naruto, and none of his own really. He had no SPC to speak of. This is obviously ignoring the obvious fact that base Naruto is an absolute non-factor here, and that he was implied to have little to no chakra left at that point, anyway.

This I think is more understandable (even though there are still ways to attack the argument), but Base SPSM Naruto is 44 Exatons, so that's fine honestly, I just have issues with saying Ghost Hagoromo scales to WA Kaguya.

Was the chakra he gave 100% responsible for everything? No. Was it a huge contributing factor? Absolutely.

You're just making a lot of claims and assertions regarding things I literally never said.
Here's the current description:

As you can clearly see, there's not a single mention of anything remotely implying that he's "Naruto + Sasuke in terms of AP" or that he scales to any specific Jutsu of theirs. If that were the case, I would've scaled Ghost Hagoromo to the 177 Exatons value, which I clearly did not do.

The description implies nothing more than what it plainly says. Hagoromo gave Naruto and Sasuke power. That much is a fact. Said power allowed them to bridge a massive power gap and compete with certain individuals their previous peaks of power had no chance of competing against. No further assumptions nor extrapolations were made beyond stating the fact of the matter. It is that simple.

It doesn't directly state it, but it definitely implies he's relative to the characters mentioned.

Why thank you! That might be the only compliment you ever gave me lmfao

You're welcome! I have they just get buried in the bible wars

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

I'll agree to this point.

Nice.

But this nah. Yes he still has Six Paths Sage Mode, but Six Paths Sage Mode =/= Six Paths Senjutsu, despite them sounding so similar. As you yourself state later, SPSM is a specific form given to him by Hagoromo, but SPS is just an enhanced version of Sage Mode usually associated with the Juubi/Otsustuki. We know Madara wasn't given anything by Hagoromo, but he still had SPS. Naruto doesn't have SPS anymore as you can see from his back, which lacke the 9 Magatama markings indicative of it.

Again, this is kinda its own can of worms, especially because I think there are arguments for him not even having SPSM anymore to begin with, so I'd rather not get into it if that's alright with you. I think we both agree it has no bearing on anything here, anyway.

Not really? Since if he did gain Six Paths Senjutsu from his bonds with the Bijuu, that's a power he gained separate from Hagoromo's influence.

This is stated nowhere, ever.
Naruto only ever used Six Paths Senjutsu through his usage of Six Paths Sage Mode. SPSM was given to him by Hagoromo, as we went over already. It was never something that was attributed to the Biju's chakra.
Also, a couple of other things.
I know we agreed not to get into the Boruto/Adult Naruto thing, but since we both kinda sorta agree he no longer has SPS, I think it's fine. He still has the Biju's chakra. We know this due to a statement from one of the Shikamaru novels, as well as Naruto still having access to techniques like the Lava Style Rasenshuriken. If the Biju's chakra were the crux for him having SPS, then he'd still have it, no?
The second thing comes back to what I mentioned before, which is that we have other SPS users who are neither Juubi Jins nor associated with the Biju in any way.

His hair looks grayer and his face more wrinkly. Might be a slight retcon tho.

You may not be aware of this, but the colored manga we currently use isn't actually official. It was probably just a minor error on the artist(s)'s part.

Again, SPSM =/= SPS, and that still doesn't address the chakra cloak which is separate from SPSM. Even on the current profile, pure SPSM Naruto is only 44 Exatons while it's his chakra cloak from the Bijuu with which he fights later versions of Madara and Kaguya.

Yes. And I don't see how that causes any real issue with the current description I have.

I mean Madara did state it happened when he was close to death, and a similar situation happened with Sasuke even if it was with different conditions.

Or.......Madara's situation was simply different, and that particular method just takes a very long time inherently? That, to me, seems like the simplest way to look at it, and it lines up with the many statements asserting that Hagoromo simply shared his power with Naruto and Sasuke.

No, it's an indisputable fact that some of their chakra and powers were given by Hagoromo, and that that was a starting point from which they grew, not the end.

Agree to disagree then, because I don't wanna turn this into a God Tier scaling thread. The fact of the matter is that the description I have changes none of the scaling, imo. As for the abilities, you know my stance on that already.

I know you hate Boruto, but I gotta bring it up. The Sharingan clearly is still a significant boost for Six Paths Sasuke in the anime against Momoshiki, it's not Base Six Paths Sasuke + Pre-Six Sasuke's Sharingan. Just like how the Susanoo is still a big boost for Rinnegan Sasuke despite doing nothing against much weaker characters prior, so can the Sharingan. You argue techniques being linear boosts a lot when it's often not like that.

1. The anime version of that fight isn't being used right now. We accept the anime as a sort of secondary canon. Meaning that if we have two versions of the same event, the manga takes precedent. So yeah.
2. It's a good thing I'm not scaling Hagoromo to Sasuke's Susano'o then, eh?

This I think is more understandable (even though there are still ways to attack the argument), but Base SPSM Naruto is 44 Exatons, so that's fine honestly,

Cool.

I just have issues with saying Ghost Hagoromo scales to WA Kaguya.

Good, because.....I didn't say that....? I even linked the statement where he admitted inferiority to Kaguya on the profile, multiple times I believe.
That being said, you can be weaker than someone and still scale relative to them. Naruto, Sasuke, and Madara are all inferior to Kaguya, yet they scale to the same value. I can pull many examples of this from other tiers, and other series, but I'm sure you get the idea. You can be weaker, but still relative.

It doesn't directly state it, but it definitely implies he's relative to the characters mentioned.

Well, that would be because he is.

You're welcome! I have they just get buried in the bible wars

Honestly, fair. It's hard to see the positives in something so grim.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Welp, this has been up for around a week, and it has long since been accepted. I think I'll apply the changes some time later today. And like I said before, I'll add the extra bit for the Intelligence section whenever Deceived concludes his thread.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Mane doesn't look like this is gonna get to be a full debate so I'm gonna just focus on a few key things.

• Juubito and Juubidara got Six Paths Senjutsu from the chakra of the Juubi, and Naruto got it after he attained all of the Bijuus' chakra, so it's pretty basic reasoning to say that's how he got it, and it even seems like him getting all the Bijuus' chakra was after Hagoromo talked with him, so that wasn't the purpose of having it
• Not all the Bijuu are with Naruto in Boruto, which explains why he wouldn't have SPS anymore
• Since you basically said you're not scaling Hagoromo to Naruto and Sasuke's specific ninjutsu, I'm really not sure where the scaling to Kaguya comes from, cause they really only fight her with their ninjutsu (other than Naruto smacking her after flashing her, and I gueeeess one clone out of dozens flying through her chakra hand which didn't even seem to be attacking atm), so at best he should really only scale to Juubidara, which is more consistent because as is even noted on Madara's profile, 2E Juubidara~Hagoromo

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Mane doesn't look like this is gonna get to be a full debate so I'm gonna just focus on a few key things.

• Juubito and Juubidara got Six Paths Senjutsu from the chakra of the Juubi, and Naruto got it after he attained all of the Bijuus' chakra, so it's pretty basic reasoning to say that's how he got it, and it even seems like him getting all the Bijuus' chakra was after Hagoromo talked with him, so that wasn't the purpose of having it
• Not all the Bijuu are with Naruto in Boruto, which explains why he wouldn't have SPS anymore
• Since you basically said you're not scaling Hagoromo to Naruto and Sasuke's specific ninjutsu, I'm really not sure where the scaling to Kaguya comes from, cause they really only fight her with their ninjutsu (other than Naruto smacking her after flashing her, and I gueeeess one clone out of dozens flying through her chakra hand which didn't even seem to be attacking atm), so at best he should really only scale to Juubidara, which is more consistent because as is even noted on Madara's profile, 2E Juubidara~Hagoromo

What are you debating here?

 

[MinatoSparkle]

What are you debating here?

Basically saying that Hagoromo's being kinda highballed on the sandbox

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

Basically saying that Hagoromo's being kinda highballed on the sandbox

I will say on the Six Paths Senjutsu point that Hagoromo and Hamura had Truth Seeker Orbs whilst fighting Kaguya, before Hagoromo became the Ten Tails' Jinchuriki

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Yes, which I agreed to earlier

 

[EmperorRorepmeThree]

• Not all the Bijuu are with Naruto in Boruto, which explains why he wouldn't have SPS anymore

I'd disagee with this though, Matatabi, Kokuo, and Chomei disagreeing to meet doesn't really prove that Naruto doesn't have their chakra anymore, if anything the fact that it's possible for them to meet there but them choosing not to implies the opposite

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Still, if they're not with him actively like they are in the war, that'd be a reason for him not having it anymore

 

[Nierre]

I'd disagee with this though, Matatabi, Kokuo, and Chomei disagreeing to meet doesn't really prove that Naruto doesn't have their chakra anymore, if anything the fact that it's possible for them to meet there but them choosing not to implies the opposite

I agree with this point.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Hey all I'm saying; Naruto doesn't have the markings indicative of Six Paths Senjutsu in Boruto, and we see that multiple of the Bijuu are not actively with him.

 

[SwartSter26]

The profile formatting looks very good, but I disagree with the Juubi sealing tradition, it would make sense if it weren't for one thing that was ignored, which is, from some parts of the last one you can tell that the moon had been created and launched into space before of Hagoromo being an old man, we know this because we clearly see Hamura while he was still young on the moon:



which contradicts the tradition in the stone that Zetsu altered and that was passed on to the kage by Obito:



Zetsu even altered the Kaguya/Juubi traditions, as we know that what was on the stone that Madara read was partly wrong:



Hamura is the same age as Hag because they are twin brothers, which means there is no way that Hags is old and falling apart and Hamura is still very young and appears to be the same age as when they sealed Kaguya since we know that Hagoromo only died in old age and, according to this tradition, he would only have launched the Moon into space in old age.

 

[mal]

y would all SPCT user scaled to Hag telekinesis when they never send the moon into the orbit like he did?

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Mane doesn't look like this is gonna get to be a full debate so I'm gonna just focus on a few key things.

It was, there was just no real need for it to be needlessly dragged out. That nonsense comes later, whenever the Speed revisions become a reality.

• Juubito and Juubidara got Six Paths Senjutsu from the chakra of the Juubi, and Naruto got it after he attained all of the Bijuus' chakra, so it's pretty basic reasoning to say that's how he got it, and it even seems like him getting all the Bijuus' chakra was after Hagoromo talked with him, so that wasn't the purpose of having it

This is literally false. Hagoromo only manifested (chapter 669/670) after Obito placed the other Biju's chakra within Naruto (Chapter 666), not before.

And, again, being a Ten Tails Jinchuriki is one way to attain Six Paths Senjutsu, but it is not the only one as we went over already.

• Not all the Bijuu are with Naruto in Boruto, which explains why he wouldn't have SPS anymore

This is also wrong. The point of Naruto getting the Biju's chakra is that he becomes a hub for them. This means that they can meat through him at any time, and that they can share their powers with him, but this ONLY occurs in the second, deeper, mental plane. They are never there in the first level, where only Kurama resides. This was the case even back during the War Arc, where Naruto undoubtedly had SPS. So, in short, this point is false and moot, irrespective of whether or not Adult Naruto has SPS or not. His status as a hub for the Bijuu is not a temporary thing. Those types of connections remain, even after death, as we saw with the other Jinchuriki.

Furthermore, I'm pretty sure it is confirmed that he's still got all of their chakra in one of the novels, but it's irrelevant tbh, so I'm not gonna bother looking for it.

But there's another flaw with this argument. If this were actually true (it's not), and Naruto no longer had all of the Biju's chakra despite still having SPSM (which you seem to agree with from what I gather), then that would only serve to prove that SPSM, it's abilities, and the chakra that made it possible for Naruto to have it only came from Hagoromo and not the Biju.

• Since you basically said you're not scaling Hagoromo to Naruto and Sasuke's specific ninjutsu, I'm really not sure where the scaling to Kaguya comes from, cause they really only fight her with their ninjutsu (other than Naruto smacking her after flashing her, and I gueeeess one clone out of dozens flying through her chakra hand which didn't even seem to be attacking atm), so at best he should really only scale to Juubidara, which is more consistent because as is even noted on Madara's profile, 2E Juubidara~Hagoromo

Two things:
1) Dual Rinnegan Madara, SPSM Naruto, and Sasuke (with Ninjutsu) only really scale to this level in the first place due to Hagoromo. As in their physicals being 88 Exatons, I mean.
2) Again, you're arguing against thin air here, because again.......I already acknowledged that he's weaker than Kaguya. But the fact of the matter is that he gave Naruto and Sasuke power, and said power allowed them to somewhat contend against Kaguya. Like, this is a matter of fact. His power split two ways allows two other individuals to somewhat contend in this weight class. To me that is worthy of note. It is not me saying that Hagoromo is equal to Kaguya. Nobody in Shippuden is equal to Kaguya. Even certain scaling chains we currently have that make certain moves of Naruto and Sasuke fully scale to her are extremely questionable, and I'm not really in full agreement with them. But I do think they're in the same weight class vaguely. Still, I'm not really out to change the scaling here, nor do I care to engage with GT related shit all that much after this for quite a while.

The profile formatting looks very good, but I disagree with the Juubi sealing tradition, it would make sense if it weren't for one thing that was ignored, which is, from some parts of the last one you can tell that the moon had been created and launched into space before of Hagoromo being an old man, we know this because we clearly see Hamura while he was still young on the moon:



which contradicts the tradition in the stone that Zetsu altered and that was passed on to the kage by Obito:



Zetsu even altered the Kaguya/Juubi traditions, as we know that what was on the stone that Madara read was partly wrong:



Hamura is the same age as Hag because they are twin brothers, which means there is no way that Hags is old and falling apart and Hamura is still very young and appears to be the same age as when they sealed Kaguya since we know that Hagoromo only died in old age and, according to this tradition, he would only have launched the Moon into space in old age.

This is more so an issue with The Last in general having extremely inconsistent visuals and art. There's a plethora of examples of this phenomena, and I'd rather not get into all of it now. But prominent examples would be stuff like Sasuke being able to deactivate his Rinnegan, the whole "Biju Sage Mode" debacle, the moon split size, Naruto being able to use Shadow clones when he was like......4, Naruto flying without being in SPSM, etc. The movie just has a ton of these types of issues, and it's due to many production issues and whatnot.
As far as this example you're bringing up, it's not exempt from this issue. For example, the two frames prior to Hamura being shown on the moon as a young man just so happen to showcase Hagoromo as an old one. So, they either age differently for whatever reason, or the movie has its visual timeline slightly mixed up here, which would not surprise me given the myriad of other problems the movie suffers from.
The point still remains, the timeline I laid out largely adds up when we put everything together, which is a big W because Kishimoto really did not make our jobs here easy. The events are very vague and convoluted, with many contradictions lying at every corner.

y would all SPCT user scaled to Hag telekinesis when they never send the moon into the orbit like he did?

They won't scale to it. That's the whole point of Component 2; separating the Telekinesis from the SPCT creation. All SPCT users will scale to the creation, only Hagoromo would scale to the TK.

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Anyway, I'm gonna be applying this now, and I'll close this thread. Thank you all for the help, kind words, etc. See ya'll next time for the Chakra Page/Blog.