This is my evidence why I think Dragon Ball has FTL combat and reaction speed since Cell Games.

[Rocks75]

Well, this time I will show my evidence why Dragon Ball has FTL combat and reaction speed since Cell Games.

Cell claimed he was going to blow away the entire Solar System, let's say is a hyperbole and he just was going to destroy the entire Solar System via destroying the sun to make a supernova to destroy the entire solar system, at this point Cell is a legit star buster.

If Cell was going to shoot his Super Kamehameha at Gohan and sending him to the Sun, pretty sure his Kamehameha wouldn't take too much time in reaching the Sun, and would be a lot faster than Piccolo's casual Ki Blast that reached the Moon in seconds (despite the speed is an outlier, because it was contradicted later in the manga, as much stronger characters couldn't react slower attacks than that, and Piccolo's casual Ki Blast that destroyed the Moon is Quadruple Digits).

But unlike Piccolo's Ki Blast attack, Cell's Super Kamehameha would be a legit FTL attack, because the gap between Cell Saga and Saiyan Saga is huge, and the top tiers of Cell Saga are High Tiers in Dragon Ball, they aren't in a low rank in the DBverse.

Now, to make the calc, I will take these two values:

Distance from Earth to the Sun: 150.000.000 km.

Speed of Light: 17.987.547 km/mi.

17.987.547 x 8 = 143.900.376 km.

So, the light would take over 8 minutes to reach the Sun.

As I said, I don't think Cell's Super Kamehameha would take that long to reach the Sun, I would say that would take between 3-5 minutes as time frame to reach the Sun.

Then...

150.000.000 / 3 = 50.000.000 km.

150.000.000 / 4 = 37.500.000 km.

150.000.000 / 5 = 30.000.000 km.

So, Cell's Super Kamehameha is over 2 or 3 times the Speed of Light.

I'm pretty sure Toriyama would make Cell's Super Kamehameha a FTL attack, since he could make a lot weaker attacks when characters were a lot weaker too fast like Piccolo's Ki Blast attack (despite being an outlier in terms of speed later), but unlike the others attack, Cell's Super Kamehameha would be a legit FTL attack, because as I said, at this point of the series, the DB characters are very strong unlike in the Saiyan Saga, and in Buu Saga there are characters that could easily react Cell's Super Kamehameha, like Gotenks Super Saiyan 3, and then Gotenks Super Saiyan 3 can't react hits from Mystic Gohan because Mystic Gohan is too fast for him, that's why I think DBZ has FTL combat and reaction speed since Cell Saga.

Ok, this is my evidence. Opinions.

 

[Kowt]

I think even manga Cell is possibly a Solar System buster because he didn't aim the sun when he was about to fire his Kamehameha(I remember that someone in this wiki said that destroying the sun won't wipe everything out but Cell was about to destroy everything in the Solar System or 50 AU range).As we have seen in BoG, Goku's Kamehameha did explode at some point when he fired at Bills(or Beerus depends on your language dub) and the explosion was so huge that it could be seen by the people on earth, I think that if Gohan didn't repel the blast it would have destroyed everything within 50 AU.

 

[Antvasima]

Well, for one thing the speed that somebody can blast something is not automatically the same speed that they can move, or Dazzler, or anybody with a laser pointer, would be able to move at the speed of light. In addition, the calculation makes an assumption about both how Cell would blow up the solar system, that he was not bluffing, and how long it would take to reach the sun. So, my apologies, but I don't think that this is very useful.

 

[Sheoth]

I agree with this post

 

[Rocks75]

Well, for one thing the speed that somebody can blast something is not automatically the same speed that they can move, or Dazzler, or anybody with a laser pointer, would be able to move at the speed of light. In addition, the calculation makes an assumption about both how Cell would blow up the solar system, that he was not bluffing, and how long it would take to reach the sun. So, my apologies, but I don't think that this is very useful.

Well, combat and reaction speed are different than travel/movement speed.

If Cell's Super Kamehameha is FTL attack, there is characters in Buu Saga that would react the Super Kamehameha with ease, they would block it or sending it to another direction with a slap.

 

[Rocks75]

Besides, pay attention to this part what I said:

in Buu Saga there are characters that could easily react Cell's Super Kamehameha, like Gotenks Super Saiyan 3, and then Gotenks Super Saiyan 3 can't react hits from Mystic Gohan because Mystic Gohan is too fast for him.

So Mystic Gohan would have FTL combat and reaction speed, but not FTL travel/movement speed.

 

[Coolkid_11]

Considering they barely reacted to that.


Saying very low lightspeed wouldnt be too far

 

[Antvasima]

Okay. I apologise about the confusion. Although reacting to a beam does still not necessarily mean moving faster than it, as another character could time his or her movement to the movement of the attacker, and we still don't really know for certain the speed of Cell's blasts.

 

[Rocks75]

They might not move FTL but as I said they would fight FTL.

 

[Antvasima]

Hmm. I don't know. It sounds a bit shaky to me.

 

[Rocks75]

And no, movement would be dodging the Ki blast, but reacting the Ki blast is like this:

 

[Rocks75]

And as I said, I'm pretty sure Toriyama would make Cell's Super Kamehameha FTL if someone wouldn't stop his Super Kamehameha.

 

[Antvasima]

Yeah okay. I personally think that they might very well be FTL. I just think that this particular rationale doesn't quite seem to hold. But you can ask what SeiryuShin, A6colute, and Lord Kavpeny think? Or maybe highlight the thread so that the entire wiki sees it?

 

[Rocks75]

Ok, let's wait what the others think about this.

 

[Antvasima]

I highlighted it for you.

 

[SeiryuShin]

assumptions about speed are not legtitimate calcs

 

[Minority_World]

I don't see any evidence even if the title says so, I just see random guessing for all we know huge energy beams could go really slow instead of fast.

 

[Minority_World]

dbz contradicts itself, much more than other series. it isn't nearly anywhere near LS in saiyan saga.

 

[SeiryuShin]

piccolo's attack was not instant as we see debris falling during the scene implying time was passing.

 

[Coolkid_11]

^Stay mad

 

[Unclechairman]

piccolo's attack was not instant as we see debris falling during the scene implying time was passing.

What debris? The debris in the third panel? Have you forgotten Gohan was rampaging as a giant ape? There is also an explosion below the debris, further implying it came from Gohan's rampage and not from the moon.

 

[GohanLSSJ2]

Piccolo blasting the moon was calced at Mach 1500+. That alone is an epic speed feat and if Raditz can react to it, he's at least that fast in combat speed/reaction-time. Also, that debris in the panel is obviously from the ruckus Gohan was causing. Piccolo hadn't blasted the moon at that point.

Also, since we all agree that Super Perfect Cell can, at bare minimum, blow up the sun, then yes, his Super Kamehameha IS onb the lowest end of FTL (Or perhaps just lightspeed). Furthermore, Gohan's speed is just that much if he can fire a Kamehameha instantly after Cell did.

 

[Antvasima]

I agree with SeiryuShin though. There are too many assumptions regarding this calculation.

 

[Unclechairman]

As much as I hate to admit it, Antvasima is probably right.

 

[Antvasima]

Thank you.

 

[SeiryuShin]

piccolo's attack was not instant as we see debris falling during the scene implying time was passing.

What debris? The debris in the third panel? Have you forgotten Gohan was rampaging as a giant ape? There is also an explosion below the debris, further implying it came from Gohan's rampage and not from the moon.

I never said it came from the moon?


debris was falling from that explosion during the blast scene


debris takes time to fall


ergo, you can get a timeframe from something as mundane as that

 

[Unclechairman]

The events in that panel occurred just before Piccolo blew up the moon.

If there's a timeframe to be gotten from that, if the debris reached the ground immediately after Piccolo's blast hit the moon, then Piccolo's blast reached the moon in seconds, if not near instantly.

Unless there's something I'm missing here.

 

[SeiryuShin]

seconds - yes


instant - no


the only thing "instant" in DBZ is instant transmission

 

[Antvasima]

Please stop inserting obnoxious images, thank you.

 

[GohanLSSJ2]

That's true even for FTL movement. Instantaneous movement means teleportation (or Infinite Speed), none of which happenned outside of IT for Dragon Ball (either Manga OR Anime).

But it's still clear Piccolo's blast was at least massively hypersonic, and their speeds only continued to increase as the show went on. I also believe they reached at least Speed of Light reaction-time by the end of the Cell Saga works (That said, I believe this could only apply for Super Perfect Cell and Super Saiyan 2 Teen Gohan onwards, Full-Power SSJ Goku and Regular Perfect are just Relativistic+ in reaction-time). However, Rocks, can you find another way to calc this? Maybe there are other ways to convince them.

 

[Battler57]

Buu has Relativistic+ speed, Beerus has FTL/FTL+ speed. Cell is star level+ or multi-planet, From saga SSJ / Namek is a reaction rate FTL. I agree this post.

 

[Blade0886]

All you need is the last fight of Dragon Ball really, which is between Piccolo jr and Goku. This is the first time in the series(or maybe I missed a sooner chapter, but if I did it would be an argument in my favor) where fighters manage to go so fast the AVERAGE human eye can't pick up their movements. And that's somewhere between supersonic and hypersonic, as I don't really know where the difference is between these two terms. A speeding bullet is supersonic on MOST guns(subsonic bullets only being used for stealth), and the average human eye could see it go past, even though it's a blur. Add to that all the scaling of the power ups the characters, in particular Goku, experienced throughout the series, and by the end of DBZ, you get a SSJ3 Goku who's easily MFTL, without counting Instant transmission, who's instant.