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Son Goku (SSGSS) Vs Hao Asakura

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The Everlasting said:
You seem to think being hurt phyiscally means low durability, you have that completely backwards, it just means the enemy can unleash enough physical power to harm them with punches. Beerus destroyed half a planet with a casual tap, and Goku traded blows with him, Frieza kicked a planet buster into space and Gohan ripped apart the Cell Jr.s with one punch each.
Again, physical blows carry force equal to ki blasts.

He can't kill Schrodinger or the Lutec twins becuase of abilities in their arsenal (Schrodinger can't die as long as he's aware of his own existence and the Lutec twins are scattered across probability space). Again, stop acting as if omnipresence can relate to durability, it can't. While I do agree Goku doesn't have defense against soul absorption, I don't think Hao can use it fast enough to have it work.
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It means low physical durability which has been an issue with DBZ for a while. Sure nobody argues that they have high DC and energy durability but when it comes to physical attacks DBZ characters fall flat. Also Beerus attack would be more of an energy attack as ki was released afterwards: the manga version has him destroy the entire planet with a ki blast and survive point blank but that's neither here not there.

According to what exactly. ki amps strikes sure but physical blows are out.

We already established omnipresence=/= durability though it does make Hao beyond Goku's means of killing him. Unless he can blow up GS then Hao's omnipresence forces the fight into a stalemate at best.
 
When has it ever been an issue? Also, Beerus tapped the planet, a small wave emitted from his finger (Presumably for effect), and half of the planet was gone. The manga of DBS isn't canon, it's actually an adaptation of the anime.

Logic.

You literally contradicted yourself in two sentences, first you say omnipresence =/= durability and then say omnipresence = durability. What?
 
Muu0934 said:
The Everlasting said:
You seem to think being hurt phyiscally means low durability, you have that completely backwards, it just means the enemy can unleash enough physical power to harm them with punches. Beerus destroyed half a planet with a casual tap, and Goku traded blows with him, Frieza kicked a planet buster into space and Gohan ripped apart the Cell Jr.s with one punch each.
Again, physical blows carry force equal to ki blasts.

He can't kill Schrodinger or the Lutec twins becuase of abilities in their arsenal (Schrodinger can't die as long as he's aware of his own existence and the Lutec twins are scattered across probability space). Again, stop acting as if omnipresence can relate to durability, it can't. While I do agree Goku doesn't have defense against soul absorption, I don't think Hao can use it fast enough to have it work.
Click to expand...
It means low physical durability which has been an issue with DBZ for a while. Sure nobody argues that they have high DC and energy durability but when it comes to physical attacks DBZ characters fall flat. Also Beerus attack would be more of an energy attack as ki was released afterwards: the manga version has him destroy the entire planet with a ki blast and survive point blank but that's neither here not there.
According to what exactly. ki amps strikes sure but physical blows are out.

We already established omnipresence=/= durability though it does make Hao beyond Goku's means of killing him. Unless he can blow up GS then Hao's omnipresence forces the fight into a stalemate at best.
Click to expand...
How can they "fall flat" when every single, damn attack USES THE SAME SOURCE OF POWER!

PHYSICAL BLOWS USE KI TO ENHANCE THE FORCE OF THEIR STRIKES! WHAT THE F- Ok...

... Has Hao been shown tanking anything superior to Goku's attacks. At least he would be knocked on his ass, and down for the count. So it doesn't matter. But in this case, a single ki blast would be the end of Hao.
 
The Everlasting said:
Except Beerus and Goku have powerscaling, Hao doesn't, since his only opponents are weaker than him.
The issue is that this is Goku vs Hao, not Beerus or Whis vs Hao.
Click to expand...

And Hao has quantifiable feats thanks to SoF's real world feats and the numbers provided by the characters fighting GS Hao.

Fair enough though I've already given my stance on Goku's inability to counter omnipresence or soul absorption.
 
The Everlasting said:
When has it ever been an issue? Also, Beerus tapped the planet, a small wave emitted from his finger (Presumably for effect), and half of the planet was gone. The manga of DBS isn't canon, it's actually an adaptation of the anime.
Logic.

You literally contradicted yourself in two sentences, first you say omnipresence =/= durability and then say omnipresence = durability. What?
Click to expand...
DBZ characters have relatively low strength feats in comparison to their speed/DC.

Omnipresence means that Goku can't put down Hao in any meaningful way. How am I contradicting myself. Omnipresence in its very nature would make Hao beyond Goku's means of killing; nowhere in that sentence does that make omnipresence equal to durability.
 
BUT THEY DIDN'T DO WHAT THEY WERE EVEN FRICKIN' SUPPOSED TO! HE DIDN'T EVEN DECENTLY HARM THE F- Calm down... He didn't even decently harm the Five Warriors with said attacks, they were literally blocked from him. And once again, they haven't shown anything. Not a damn thing. That could be stated as "real world". If the Black Hole was used, then why weren't they sucked into it and CRUSHED INTO A SINGULARITY! If they have feats of FTL+ THAT WOULD MEAN THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO SHOW THE FEATS IN QUESTION THAT LINKS TO THEM BEING CAPABLE OF STALEMATING A BLACK HOLE WITHOUT BEING ABSORBED! I'm not even going to frickin' comment on the bloody Super Nova.

HE HASN"T ABSORBED ANYONE COMPARABLE TO GOKU'S SOUL! DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND THAT! THE PEOPLE HE HAS ABSORBED WERE INFERIOR TO GOKU!
 
The Everlasting said:
You just said omnipresence =/= durability, why does Goku countering it mean anything?
Click to expand...

In order to beat Hao he would have to find a way to bypass omnipresence or affect Hao in a way that would make omnipresence a non-factor i.e telepathy, time hax, exc...
 
Omnipresence =/= durability, it means nothing in a fight regarding taking hits. Also, Goku is telepathic (He reads Krillin's mind when he arrives on Namek, there are definately more times he's used this but I don't remember any).
 
He already stated that if it was "omnipresence" he would be hurt just by Goku kicking the air, which would kill him. Let's have fun thinking about that little thought for a minute.
 
The Everlasting said:
Omnipresence =/= durability, it means nothing in a fight regarding taking hits. Also, Goku is telepathic (He reads Krillin's mind when he arrives on Namek, there are definately more times he's used this but I don't remember any).
Click to expand...

My point is that durability is meaningless if you're omnipresent. Goku can attack Hao all he wants but unless he destroys GS Hao will remain because of the very nature of omnipresence.
 
You said earlier it wasn't, and I mentioned earlier that if Hao is omnipresent Goku can harm him no matter where he throws his punches.
 
Since this isn't a death battle, by virtue of Hao being knocked on his ass by a kick to space. It's Psuedo-Omnipresence at best.
 
The Everlasting said:
You said earlier it wasn't, and I mentioned earlier that if Hao is omnipresent Goku can harm him no matter where he throws his punches.
Click to expand...

Again lets use Schrodinger from Hellsing. Despite being shot and visibly affected, he was still present as he was cognant of his own existance. If Schrodinger's brand of omnipresence is easy to accept then why isn't Hao's when its almost exactly the same.
 
That is a special ability of his that Hao doesn't possess. Schrodinger is capable of making himself into practically whatever he wants as long as he's aware of his own existence.
 
The Everlasting said:
That is a special ability of his that Hao doesn't possess.
Click to expand...
Schrodinger has omnipresence and Hao has omnipresence. Despite having different functionality they're still omnipresent with respect to their own verse.
 
Actually wait... has he been shown using his omnipresence? And how so. Can you give me feats when he has actually been killed by something?
 
Hao's omnipresence is tied to GS in a similar manner. As long as GS exist, Hao will also exist and Hao is always present in the physical/spiritual realms. Also we haven't seen Schrodinger remake himself into anything but only appear everywhere.
 
... Except he got blasted multiple times by Alucard, he didn't need to remake himself. I'm asking did he use his Omnipresence anywhere outside of his GS? Has he been killed by anything.
 
Also, his whole remaking thing is when Alucard kills him he still lives because he's aware of his own existence and remakes himself to be alive.
 
Davy0 said:
... Except he got blasted multiple times by Alucard, he didn't need to remake himself. I'm asking did he use his Omnipresence anywhere outside of his GS? Has he been killed by anything.
Click to expand...

Yes, Yoh decapitates his physical body as soon as the awakening is complete, by the end of Shaman King we see Hao at the graveyard where the series first started with knowledge that he's still in control of GS. He appears again in Shaman King Flowers also inside GS and the physical world.
 
KK. I'm done. As far as I'm concerned Goku wins. Until you can show feats that actually have to do with him surviving a Solar System Buster to the face, I don't give a damn.
 
Davy0 said:
KK. I'm done. As far as I'm concerned Goku wins. Until you can show feats that actually have to do with him surviving a Solar System Buster to the face, I don't give a damn.
Click to expand...

If you can show me a solar system being destroyed then I'll agree
 
This conversation is going to go nowhere, do not post more replies.

Also, that's assuming Hao can absorb Goku's soul before he hits him.
 
Br3akN3cks said:
SOUL SUCK >>>>>>>> Solar System Buster
Click to expand...
That is exactly how it would go down.

The Everlasting said:
This conversation is going to go nowhere, do not post more replies.
Also, that's assuming Hao can absorb Goku's soul before he hits him.
Click to expand...
Unless that hit is directed & destroys the GS oversoul it won't do anything.
To illustrate this point here's some scans of Hao's soul absorption in action:

http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/10.html/ http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/23.html/ http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/24.html http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/25.html
 
The first two links don't work. Also, again, Goku could just fire anywhere like a crazy person and he'd still hit Hao, killing him instantly.
 
These two should work.

http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/10.html http://www.*********.co/manga/shaman_king/v33/c297/23.html

Hao was decapitated and was still able to soul absorb. Also because he's omnipresent he can reach anyone at any place: heck Hao doesn't even have to look at Goku for it to work.
 
And Goku could just punch the air before Hao finishes doing it, there would then be a dead Hao on the ground.
 
That wouldn't actually stop it though. Why would punching the air have a different result than decapitation? Goku can't actually escape Hao's reach because of GS and mearly looking at Hao results in soul absorption.
 
Muu0943: Why wouldn't it? If Hao is omnipresent, Goku would hit him regardless of where he threw his punch. Besides, Goku can erect ki barriers around him to stop whatever Hao does.

Br3akN3cks: I doubt Hao has Absolute Immortality, if that's the case, how do the heroes beat him?
 
Br3akN3cks said:
Hao = perfect immortality
Click to expand...
Indeed. " Muu0943: Why wouldn't it? If Hao is omnipresent, Goku would hit him regardless of where he threw his punch. Besides, Goku can erect ki barriers around him to stop whatever Hao does. "

If decapitating Hao's physical body didn't stop soul absorption why would punching the air work any better? When ki barriers can survive solar winds and black holes that'll be something.
 
If their ki can hurt 4-B characters, I think they can put that much energy into their barriers.

This conversation is going nowhere, let's just agree to stop right now, no more responses except agreement.
 
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