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Major Fire Emblem Heroes Revisions (Part 6): Hax, Heroes Profiles/Keys + Clean Up

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tier 1 stuff is next thread, maybe
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For (mostly) Everyone



Regeneration

This actually applies to the whole verse. Currently, the justification for the High-Low justification comes from this, where Gunter stabs himself in the gut with a sword, and afterwards, Elise and Sakura are able to heal him. The thing is, this should probably be Low-Mid, since Gunter quite literally stabs the entire blade into his torso, to the point where I believe you can see the tip of the sword literally sticking out his back, which is definitely more than just "minor organ damage".

Resistances

  • Conceptual Manipulation (Type 2): This is going to replace the Law Manipulation resistance everyone (but the undead characters) have on their profiles. The reasoning for the Law Manipulation Resistance is more along the lines of Conceptual Manipulation Resistance. Here is the quote that got them their resistance:

Then later, Eir was able to betray Hel regardless:


Here, it clearly shows that Hel etched her will into Eir's very being/make it synonymous with her existence, making it impossible for her to oppose her. This definitely is not a case of Body Puppetry, as it's been stated that it altered her existence. This is a case of Conceptual Manipulation, since Eir's very being (aka her very concept) has been altered to not allow it. Yet Eir was completely unaffected by this, therefore, is a resistance.

This is Type 2, since it has been etched by "endless death" (aka Hel), who is a Type 2 Concept due to being Death itself. This, by extention will give Hel Type 2 Conceptual Manipulation.

Additions to Contracts

  • Fate Manipulation: This is shown in the Tempest Trials, where "Marth" and Hector have a conversation about his contract with Armads:

This shows when Hector entered a contract with Armads, he was now destined to die on the battlefield. This is Fate Manipulation, since it guarantees that he will die a certain way.

  • Probability Manipulation: This is shown in the Forging Bonds: Forces of Will, where Morgan attempts to hit Hegemon Edelgard, but is unable to due to the contract:

Here we can see that Morgan's attack missed because of the Contract, This falls under Probability Manipulation since it otherwise would've hit had it not been for the contract.

Skill Inheritance

This one will be different for everyone, but in short, everyone will have a "With Inheritance" tabber for their abilities. Skill Inheritance is an actual thing that should be on their profiles, as several characters such as Sharena canonically have quotes whenever they activate their Special, despite not inherently having one. This basically shows that Skill Inheritance has to be an actual thing, and not just a game mechanic, as this wouldn't be possible otherwise. Also, each character will gain Inheritable weapons as a part of their Optional Equipment tabber, if they don't have one already.

Also, as a result of this, characters who have an "X special can't be spammed" as a part of their weakness should have it removed, as stuff like Special Spiral and Time's Pulse significantly reduces the cooldown to the point where it can basically be spammed.

While there are too many to actually list all of them on each profile, they will have notable ones listed in their Notable Attacks/Techniques. Here is a list of all the stuff that can be inherited.

Sacred Seals

This is pretty much just the Skill Inheritance, but to a lesser degree, and on the same tabber as the base. Essentially, Sacred Seals are different skills Heroes can equip without having to inherit them.

Like the Skill Inheritance, while there are too many to actually list all of them on each profile, they will have notable ones listed in their Notable Attacks/Techniques. Here is a list of all Sacred Seals.

Heroes Profiles


Everyone who is currently featured as a unit in Fire Emblem Heroes will receive a Heroes profile. This is due to the fact that contrary to popular belief, Fire Emblem Heroes is actually a mainline FE game, as shown in the Legacy of Archanea Book, and while he has no say in what is canon or not, Masahiro Sakurai also says FEH is a mainline game. This means that it is an actual canon game, and not a spinoff like many believe.

Now, unlike other Fire Emblem games that feature past characters as DLC such as Awakening, Fates, and Shadows of Valentia, these characters are the actual characters, and not just some copies or clones. This is because the characters are straight up summoned from their world of origin, ergo would be the real characters. As Heroes is considered a mainline game by Intelligent Systems themselves, it should be safe to say that Heroes is a canon crossover, and therefore, everyone should receive a profile for their Heroes selves. They all feature plenty of new abilities as well that would clearly differentiate them from their "main" selves.

However, Heroes characters with alts will share a profile if its basically just "X Character but with a new outfit and no other differences", as to not have to create a new profile for each alt, which would result in hundreds of profiles being created. The only exception would be if the character alt in question has a completely different backstory/background, or if their universe is wildly different, such as the Brave Heroes, or the Adrift characters. This will also apply to all currently existing Heroes profiles.

And just a small thing, but any non-Heroes OC character that has Heroes art should just have their normal game art, as we need that Heroes art to go into their Heroes profile. There should also be a note at the end of each Heroes profile that explains that Heroes is a canon game, and a link that redirects to the "main" profile.

Keep in mind that this is more so just to allow the creation of Heroes profiles, as it would take a VERY long time to actually create every Heroes profile.

Just to give an idea on what these profiles would look like, here is a draft of Marth's Heroes Profile.

Alfonse




Alfonse should straight up have Genius intelligence. He has demonstrated numerous times throughout the story to have intelligence far above any ordinary person, and has been shown to be a great strategist. His intelligence rating would be something like this:

Genius. He is a very talented swordsman, as well as a great strategist, as he was able to plan ahead of time to create a smoke signal to warn a village to evacuate before Surtr attacked them, and successfully created a plan to ambush and capture Laegjarn, one of Múspell's top generals. He intentionally sprung Thrasir's trap knowing that she would come to check it, which gave the Order of Heroes the opportunity to take down one of Hel's top generals. He is very perceptive, as he was capable of finding out that Loki was impersonating Hríd, as well as find out Líf's true identity, and predicted the latter's attempt to trap them. He has studied the ancient Askran language, can decipher ancient texts with little difficulty, and is knowledgeable about ancient prophecies. Along with Sharena, he temporarily looked after the kingdom of Askr's affairs after Queen Henriette was incapacitated.

This would also obviously apply to Líf, as they are the same person.

Sharena




Sharena should DEFINITELY have much higher intelligence than Average. Her intelligence should be something along the lines of this:

At least Above Average. Despite being somewhat childlike, she is a skilled fighter, who was taught by Zacharias before his disappearance. She is very knowledgeable about Heroes from different worlds, as she documents all the different Heroes that arrive in Askr. Along with Alfonse, she temporarily looked after the kingdom of Askr's affairs after Queen Henriette was incapacitated.

Kiran




Structures

In Mjölnir's Strike, there are structures that grant special effects. Some of these include the Summoner Structures. Some background on said structures is that they come from other worlds, such as Múspell, Hel, and Niðavellir, ergo the structures should have the same abilities that reflect their realm of origin. The Summoner Structures in particular grant Kiran some abilities. Regardless of Kiran's location, they are able to activate these structures, which grant them certain effects. Here are the following abilities that Kiran will have as a result from the structures:

  • Fire Manipulation and Soul Manipulation (Summoner Aflame deals damage to foes via the Flames of Múspell, which burns the soul)
  • Healing (Vital Summoner restores 40 HP to Kiran, and nearby allies). While Kiran already has Healing, it can be added to their already existing reasoning.
  • Can act twice in the same turn via Cogent Summoner.
  • Statistics Amplification (Shining Summoner temporarily increases the stats of nearby allies. Winged Summoner allows Kiran, and nearby allies to move an extra space). Kiran already has Statistics Amplification, so this will just be added to their already existing reasoning.
  • Statistics Reduction (Ebon Summoner temporarily decreases the foes' stats). Kiran already has Statistics Reduction, so this will just be added to their already existing reasoning.

Surtr




Just a small change to his justification for his AP to this:

Multiverse level+ (Stomped Fjorm, and could casually fight against the Order of Heroes. Killed Gunnthrá with ease. Claims to be capable of burning everything in the Nine Realms)

This very likely is not an exaggeration from Surtr, as there was an entire Prophecy centered around Ragnarök, where the Flames of Múspell were eventually going to destroy everything. And while we don't have clear details on it yet, a new Tempest Trials revealed a major part of FEH's Lore, the Twilit Runes:


While we don't know if this is referring to the Flames of Múspell, this is very clearly referencing Ragnarök, and it lines up with the former quote of the prophecy where the flames were eventually going to destroy everything. Not to mention, another name for Ragnarök literally being "Twilight of the Gods".

This would also grant Multiversal+ Range via the Flames of Múspell

Freyja



Dream World Abilities


All abilities that Freyja has on her profile from the Dream World should be properly labeled, since she doesn't have those abilities without the Dream World.

These Abilities include: Passive Transmutation, Power Nullification, and Memory Manipulation.

However, I would like to also add Power Modification.

It was shown in this thread that people that enter the Dream World can take up the form of a random being, and have their form and memory altered respectively. (Like when Anna took up the form of a Squirrel, Kiran taking the form of Alfonse, and Alfonse taking the form of a False Kiran). In the case of Kiran, due to taking the form of Alfonse, they had Alfonse's sword, Fólkvangr. And when Alfonse took up the form of a False Kiran, he didn't have any of his skills. This is in reference to the fact that Kiran doesn't have any base skills. While the latter can be seen as a form of Power Nullification, I believe that the former is more so Power Modification, since it is converting powers to match whichever form a character takes, which can mean taking the form of a character with no powers.

Also, all of these abilities should be Dream Based, due to simply being effects of Dreams, and anyone that is capable of Dreaming can be affected. Naturally, one that is incapable of Dreaming shouldn't be affected by these abilities.

And Dream World Residents should naturally have a resistance to these abilities due to being inhabitants of the Dream World.

And Azura will also gain these abilities in her Dream World Key.

Abstract Existence


Freyja, as well as any natural Dream World residents such as Peony or Freyr should have Abstract Existence (Type 1).

Currently, dreams have Type 2 AE, as seen on Freyja's profile. However, they, and natural Dream World residents should instead have Type 1. This is because rather than just embodying dreams, they literally are the dreams themselves. This is seen in Corrin: Dream Prince's Quotes:


Some context behind this is that this Corrin is not the real Corrin, but like Dream Camilla and Mikoto, are part of Azura's Dream. So this isn't just a normal Corrin having an everyday existential crisis, they only exist as Azura's dream. This shows that all Dreams/Nightmares exist purely as dreams, aka; pure thought/information, which qualifies for Type 1 Abstract Existence.

Now how does this apply to Freyja, and other Dream World residents? Well like the Dreams and Nightmares, they too, exist within the Dream World, and are Dreams/Nightmares themselves. However, rather than just embodying a single dream by an individual, they each represent a type of dream, or Dreams/Nightmares. This is especially shown with Plumeria, who is the Dökkálfar (or dark elf) of Lewd Dreams. Like with other Nightmares, they too, exist within Dreams, as seen here:


Not only that, but Plumeria herself claims that she is the Lewd Dream itself:


And Triandra, a fellow dökkálfar says that she is the Nightmare:


In addition Triandra also says that as long as people dream, they will appear before her:


This is further backed up from some dialogue by Freyr and Freyja, both being the god and goddess of Dreams and Nightmares respectively:


Some context behind this is that the Dream World is created from Dreams/Nightmares. As seen in the previous quotes, without dreams, the Dream World cannot exist. However, once the children (Peony, Mirabilis, Triandra, and Plumeria) drank the nectar, they became álfr, or rather embodiments of Dreams, which saved the Dream World from being destroyed due to Dreams once again existing.

As seen in the latter quote, both Freyr and Freyja were literally saved from being erased from existence once there were Dreams again. This further shows that the álfr, Freyr, and Freyja, exist purely as dreams.

This is made much more clear in a statement said by Peony, when they were talking about the World of Steel (Kiran's world):


This quote clearly shows that without dreams, Dream World residents are not able to live, since they are the dreams themselves.

TL;DR, Dreams and Nightmares exist purely as Dreams, and so do Dream World residents like Freyr and Freyja. Without Dreams, they cannot exist, as they embody dreams themselves. Therefore, they will have AE Type 1.

Nonexistent Physiology

By extension of embodying dreams, natural Dream World residents should also have Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1).

This one is rather simple. As seen earlier in this thread, Dream Corrin states this:


Of course, as we answered earlier, the latter is true. Since Dreams only exist as, well dreams, they do not exist in a conventional sense. On the Nonexistent Physiology page, it says this for Type 1:


This shows that Dreams/Dream World residents do not truly exist in a conventional sense, as they merely exist as a dream.

Cosmic Awareness


Freyja should be comparable to her brother, who can oversee the entire Dream World, as he could sense that it was being corrupted despite not physically being in the place where it was happening. She seems to also be capable of this ability, seeing as she is capable of finding wherever the Order of Heroes are regardless of their location in the Dream World. At minimum, she should have this ability in her 2nd key, seeing as she absorbed all of Freyr's powers, which would include this.

Conceptual Erasure

The scan is actually already on her profile, where she says this:


Here she is making it clear that she is going to erase every aspect of them from existence, including the very idea of them. Keep in mind that said álfar are also abstract embodiments of dreams.

Small fix to her weakness for her 2nd Key


Currently, her weakness for the 2nd key is this:

Without Freyr's power, dreams and reality become separate, and she cannot affect reality.

However, there is an issue with the wording of this. The thing is, Dreams and Dream World residents ARE able to travel to/affect reality. This is shown several times throughout the story, such as Peony appearing several times in forging bonds. Or the fact that Freyr himself says he can do so:


Instead, the weakness should just be changed to this:

Without Freyr's power, dreams and reality become separate, and she can no longer warp reality

This will also give them Dimensional Travel.
 
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I'm not quite sure about Probability Manipulation, tbh, but I think this mostly looks fine

yes, let's allow Skill Inheritance for Ninja Naginata+/Flashing Blade 4/Atrocity Legendary Dimitri True Damage Build ovo
 
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Nep feels iffy to me, the existence part is talking about your memories being gone and them not feeling or thinking is just lack of sentience, which is somewhat common in fiction.

Usually nep type 1 requires lacking a soul too
 
Nep feels iffy to me, the existence part is talking about your memories being gone and them not feeling or thinking is just lack of sentience, which is somewhat common in fiction.

Usually nep type 1 requires lacking a soul too
It's not just lacking sentience, as it's referring to how after death, your existence fades away. In the Japanese version, it also mentions along the lines of being consumed by death, and then your existence sinking into oblivion.
 
Unfortunate that Surtr didn't show up in Book 3, given the fact his soul was long gone by the time he dies and is taken to Hel
 
Unfortunate that Surtr didn't show up in Book 3, given the fact his soul was long gone by the time he dies and is taken to Hel
Well he did show up in the Xenologue, and he confirmed that he was sent to the realm of the dead via his summoning quote, which kinda shows that the undead don't necessarily need souls to be, well undead, so it rules out the possibility of them just being souls despite them not having physical bodies.
 
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Regeneration and Conceptual Manipulation seem fine.

Contract stuff seems fine but I'd probably classify it as power null instead of probability.

If that's really all you have for the Skill Inheritance thing that's a massive reach considering the special voice lines only indicate that the character has some line or battle cry that they might use in the heat of battle. The fact that they're only used in-game when the character uses a special is itself inherently game mechanics. I'm not inherently against using Skill Inheritence but that reasoning is very flawed.

No Comment on Sacred Seals

I don't have much of a comment on the Heroes profiles thing as I don't really know our specific standards on crossover characters relating to canonicity and all that, but all that scan shows is that IS decided to include a mention of FEH alongside other Fire Emblem games, which doesn't really mean much in the way of being a "mainline game" without an official statement or something.

Alfonse, Sharena, and Kiran stuff seem fine.

While I have unrelated gripes Surtr seems fine. It's pretty clearly over time as far as the range goes though.

Freyja and dream stuff seems fine mostly, with a couple of exceptions. I'm unsure if merely being a dream is enough for NEP, especially considering as shown earlier when Freyja and Freyr discuss how they and the world of dreams were specifically spared from becoming "nothingness".

And the Conceptual Erasure thing seems way too vague to be taken at face value imo. It's just a random threat she's never able to follow through with, and not nearly enough to say she definitively has that ability. Oh wait, it's already on her page, just missing the conceptual part, wtf. I mean what I said still stands but seeing how it'd require its own CRT to change (and I can't even half be ****** to do that) I'll just retract this for now. With the statement apparently being enough to warrant existence erasure for whatever reason, it also being conceptual checks out.

NEP for being dead is also based on vague statements being taken way more literally than they should be. "Someday, death will swallow even you, and the memory of your deeds, your whole existence, will fade away." This is just Hel saying that everyone dies and is eventually forgotten. The memory of your existence is what fades away. Even if she were referring to you as a person, it could still be argued that she's likening the lack of your existence being remembered or recorded in history to a state of nonexistence by way of metaphor, rather than saying you outright stop existing when you're dead. Her conversation with Dimitri is also being taken to its most outlandish meaning when all she's saying is that dead people don't think or feel, which as far as we know literally applies to the real world too. Agree with my interpretations or not, my main point is that it's way too vague to just be automatically assumed literal, much less without further showings or supporting evidence.
 
And the Conceptual Erasure thing seems way too vague to be taken at face value imo. It's just a random threat she's never able to follow through with, and not nearly enough to say she definitively has that ability. Oh wait, it's already on her page, just missing the conceptual part, wtf. I mean what I said still stands but seeing how it'd require its own CRT to change (and I can't even half be ****** to do that) I'll just retract this for now. With the statement apparently being enough to warrant existence erasure for whatever reason, it also being conceptual checks out.
It's not really a threat when she does go and erase them
 
I mean my memory isn't perfect but given how they're still around for the epilogue that seems at best misleading.

Regardless I already dropped that for now.
 
If that's really all you have for the Skill Inheritance thing that's a massive reach considering the special voice lines only indicate that the character has some line or battle cry that they might use in the heat of battle. The fact that they're only used in-game when the character uses a special is itself inherently game mechanics. I'm not inherently against using Skill Inheritence but that reasoning is very flawed.
That seems pretty headcanony, and an even bigger reach since those quotes were specifically put into place for their special trigger, and not regular combat dialogue, as that already exists (at least, mostly in the form of grunts lol). All this doesn't just apply to Heroes, but Awakening onwards (aka where there is actual voice acting), where the characters only say their special trigger quotes when, well their special triggers.
I don't have much of a comment on the Heroes profiles thing as I don't really know our specific standards on crossover characters relating to canonicity and all that, but all that scan shows is that IS decided to include a mention of FEH alongside other Fire Emblem games, which doesn't really mean much in the way of being a "mainline game" without an official statement or something.
If it's purpose was just to list all fire emblem games, it would've also included TMS #FE and Warriors into the mix. That's clearly not the case, it's showing off all of the games that IS considers core games, which is backed up again, by Sakurai's statement.
While I have unrelated gripes Surtr seems fine. It's pretty clearly over time as far as the range goes though.
Well yeah but even overtime, it would still be Multiversal+ cause of how the tier works.
Freyja and dream stuff seems fine mostly, with a couple of exceptions. I'm unsure if merely being a dream is enough for NEP, especially considering as shown earlier when Freyja and Freyr discuss how they and the world of dreams were specifically spared from becoming "nothingness".
Though he doesn't outright say it, Adrift!Corrin basically confirms that they don't truly exist due to being a dream. The latter doesn't disprove them having NEP Type 1, since that is a case of their very concepts becoming nothingness, since they are abstract entities representing dreams, and your concept still exists if you are NEP Type 1.
And the Conceptual Erasure thing seems way too vague to be taken at face value imo. It's just a random threat she's never able to follow through with, and not nearly enough to say she definitively has that ability. Oh wait, it's already on her page, just missing the conceptual part, wtf. I mean what I said still stands but seeing how it'd require its own CRT to change (and I can't even half be ****** to do that) I'll just retract this for now. With the statement apparently being enough to warrant existence erasure for whatever reason, it also being conceptual checks out.
I mean the entire chapter she was threatening to do it, it's not just a single off-handed statement. Peony also confirms that she is capable of doing so numerous times.
NEP for being dead is also based on vague statements being taken way more literally than they should be. "Someday, death will swallow even you, and the memory of your deeds, your whole existence, will fade away." This is just Hel saying that everyone dies and is eventually forgotten. The memory of your existence is what fades away. Even if she were referring to you as a person, it could still be argued that she's likening the lack of your existence being remembered or recorded in history to a state of nonexistence by way of metaphor, rather than saying you outright stop existing when you're dead. Her conversation with Dimitri is also being taken to its most outlandish meaning when all she's saying is that dead people don't think or feel, which as far as we know literally applies to the real world too. Agree with my interpretations or not, my main point is that it's way too vague to just be automatically assumed literal, much less without further showings or supporting evidence.
She isn't just referring to the memory of your existence, she is referring to both. Here is the quote: "Someday, death will swallow even you, and the memory of your deeds, your whole existence, will fade away." She's not saying "The memory of your existence will fade away", she is saying that both the memory of you, and your existence will fade away, she's referring to two different things in the quote.

Also, it's my fault for not including this in the OP, but in the Japanese version, she says something more along the lines of this: "[Summoner]... one day you too will be consumed by death, and your existence will sink into oblivion", which makes it much more clear that she is talking about their actual existence.
 
That seems pretty headcanony, and an even bigger reach since those quotes were specifically put into place for their special trigger, and not regular combat dialogue, as that already exists (at least, mostly in the form of grunts lol). All this doesn't just apply to Heroes, but Awakening onwards (aka where there is actual voice acting), where the characters only say their special trigger quotes when, well their special triggers.
Headcanony? Sure I said what it means in a rather specific way which is my own fault, but that was never relevant to the point of what I was making. It's not as if they're canonically unable to say those lines "unless their special triggers". It's quite literally just a script. The existence of special quotes for characters without special skills just means that the developers knew that players would be using skill inheritance and accounted for it.

If it's purpose was just to list all fire emblem games, it would've also included TMS #FE and Warriors into the mix. That's clearly not the case, it's showing off all of the games that IS considers core games, which is backed up again, by Sakurai's statement.
Where is that stated? If there's something in the page or book that says or even implies that it only shows mainline games there specifically then obviously it'd be the case but as it stands there's no indication of anything regarding that. Also, you already said yourself Sakurai's thoughts on the matter don't exactly mean much here.

Though he doesn't outright say it, Adrift!Corrin basically confirms that they don't truly exist due to being a dream. The latter doesn't disprove them having NEP Type 1, since that is a case of their very concepts becoming nothingness, since they are abstract entities representing dreams, and your concept still exists if you are NEP Type 1.
"Basically?"

Anyway, eh. If simply being composed of a dream is enough to qualify for NEP Type 1 then this is a pretty open and shut case.

I mean the entire chapter she was threatening to do it, it's not just a single off-handed statement. Peony also confirms that she is capable of doing so numerous times.
Refer to what I said regarding this in my last post.

She isn't just referring to the memory of your existence, she is referring to both. Here is the quote: "Someday, death will swallow even you, and the memory of your deeds, your whole existence, will fade away." She's not saying "The memory of your existence will fade away", she is saying that both the memory of you, and your existence will fade away, she's referring to two different things in the quote.

Also, it's my fault for not including this in the OP, but in the Japanese version, she says something more along the lines of this: "[Summoner]... one day you too will be consumed by death, and your existence will sink into oblivion", which makes it much more clear that she is talking about their actual existence.
None of this really counters anything I said there. In fact, you're just restating the same exact interpretation I called into question without providing new evidence.

Her statement about the summoner inevitably dying is subject to the exact same reasoning.
 
Anyway, I just want to say if I sound confrontational or anything I don't mean to. I'll check back tomorrow and all, but I'm generally busy with school and stuff so for now I sleep.
 
Headcanony? Sure I said what it means in a rather specific way which is my own fault, but that was never relevant to the point of what I was making. It's not as if they're canonically unable to say those lines "unless their special triggers".
Sure, they COULD. But the point is that those are only quotes they say when their special triggers. They do not say those lines anywhere else, and the quotes are specifically meant for when their special triggers. It makes no sense for them to say the special quotes if the special isn’t triggering as, well that’s what it’s meant for. Hence why it's a reach to say that they're just random things they will say in the middle of combat for no reason.
It's quite literally just a script. The existence of special quotes for characters without special skills just means that the developers knew that players would be using skill inheritance and accounted for it.
Well, yes, that's the point. The special quotes are there even for characters that don't inherently have one, so they can be inherited. Ergo, inheritance is an actual thing.
Where is that stated? If there's something in the page or book that says or even implies that it only shows mainline games there specifically then obviously it'd be the case but as it stands there's no indication of anything regarding that. Also, you already said yourself Sakurai's thoughts on the matter don't exactly mean much here.
That's the purpose of the page. It's the timeline of each main game's release, and we know this since it is specifically excluding spin-offs (Otherwise, the page would either be missing Heroes, or also include Warriors and Heroes). I brought up Sakurai, since while his word alone doesn't decide what is FE canon or not, it's still relevant here, as he is still a high-ranking employee of Nintendo. Along with IS listing all of the mainline games, it shows that his word lines up with IS, and is legitimate.

This also lines up with the FE Cipher Final listing all of the “mainline” games, once again including Heroes, and excluding TMS #FE and Warriors, despite both games being a part of Cipher.

Also, the Heroes are said to come from their original worlds, and characters are capable of exploring said worlds in both the Story mode, and Lost Lore.
None of this really counters anything I said there. In fact, you're just restating the same exact interpretation I called into question without providing new evidence.

Her statement about the summoner inevitably dying is subject to the exact same reasoning.
Your point was that she was referring to the memory of Kiran's existence fading away, and not their actual existence. You missed the part where I pointed out that she was actually referring to their existence by bringing up both parts of her English quote, and the Japanese version of the quote, where she quite literally says that people's existences will sink into oblivion after death, and how she doesn’t bring up anything about memories in that version.
Anyway, I just want to say if I sound confrontational or anything I don't mean to. I'll check back tomorrow and all, but I'm generally busy with school and stuff so for now I sleep.
No problem at all.
 
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Sure, they COULD. But the point is that those are only quotes they say when their special triggers. They do not say those lines anywhere else, and the quotes are specifically meant for when their special triggers. It makes no sense for them to say the special quotes if the special isn’t triggering as, well that’s what it’s meant for. Hence why it's a reach to say that they're just random things they will say in the middle of combat for no reason.

Well, yes, that's the point. The special quotes are there even for characters that don't inherently have one, so they can be inherited. Ergo, inheritance is an actual thing.
It makes no sense lore wise for them to literally only be able to say certain lines once they meet the condition of "I can use a special now!" When or why they'd say them is irrelevant. They're just quotes the developers thought would fit in those moments, as with literally every single other line from every other moment in the game.

Nobody ever argued that skill inheritance isn't a thing, but rather the logic being used here doesn't make any real sense and is rather weak regardless. To be honest I don't see why skill inheritance wasn't already being used in the first place.
That's the purpose of the page. It's the timeline of each main game's release, and we know this since it is specifically excluding spin-offs (Otherwise, the page would either be missing Heroes, or also include Warriors and Heroes). I brought up Sakurai, since while his word alone doesn't decide what is FE canon or not, it's still relevant here, as he is still a high-ranking employee of Nintendo. Along with IS listing all of the mainline games, it shows that his word lines up with IS, and is legitimate.
I'm still waiting for this to be substantiated in any way. So long as it isn't the rest of this is literally all just your own conjecture.
Your point was that she was referring to the memory of Kiran's existence fading away, and not their actual existence. You missed the part where I pointed out that she was actually referring to their existence by bringing up both parts of her English quote, and the Japanese version of the quote, where she quite literally says that people's existences will sink into oblivion after death, and how she doesn’t bring up anything about memories in that version.
No, my point was that what she's saying is too vague to be taken as literal without any actual showings to back it up. The idea of whether she's talking about you or the memory of you is down to your interpretation vs mine. She's more likely being metaphorical here when what she's saying doesn't even almost line up with anything actually shown, an issue I'm starting to notice with a lot of FEH stuff now.
 
If the list of what IS considers "main series" includes Heroes, there's no reason to assume that Heroes isn't main series
 
If that's what the page is meant to represent it shouldn't be hard to verify and yet no one has shown any proof. If you just came to the thread to give irrelevant commentary and counter phony arguments no one made rather than actually contribute, you're better off saying nothing.

Alternatively, if FEH showing up on a page with other Fire Emblem games is enough for our purposes here I don't really have anything else to say.
 
If it were talking about FE releases with spinoffs included they would be talking about Warriors and Tokyo Mirage Sessions (both of which came out before FEH)

Here, they also bring up BS Fire Emblem, which IS has also considered main series
 
It makes no sense lore wise for them to literally only be able to say certain lines once they meet the condition of "I can use a special now!" When or why they'd say them is irrelevant. They're just quotes the developers thought would fit in those moments, as with literally every single other line from every other moment in the game.
Just put it this way: It's like Goku shouting "Kamehameha" while he's punching someone. Yes, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, but it makes absolutely no sense, since he only says that when he is doing the Kamehameha. The same way that the characters only say their special quotes when their special triggers.

But there isn't much of a point in arguing this if you agree with inheritance being a thing, so I'll just move on to the next points.
I'm still waiting for this to be substantiated in any way. So long as it isn't the rest of this is literally all just your own conjecture.
I mean what else am I supposed to say? There doesn't need to be a statement from IS that says "Heroes is canon btw", when that is what they're showing. We know this as they put Heroes with the rest of the mainline games, and exclude spinoffs all times it is shown (The Archanea Legacy Book, FE Cipher, Sakurai's statement, and any others I missed).

All three of these instances include Heroes with the rest of the mainline FE titles, and exclude any spin off titles, the latter of whom outright saying that Heroes is mainline. it's clear that Sakurai is telling the truth since his word lines up exactly with the two other lists. If the purpose of any of them was to just list all games, or if they didn't consider Heroes a mainline game, Heroes would've either been excluded, or Warriors and TMS #FE would also be listed alongside all the other games. It wouldn't make any sense for them to make a list of all mainline games + 1 spin off, because at that point they might as well have also added Warriors and TMS #FE.

No, my point was that what she's saying is too vague to be taken as literal without any actual showings to back it up. The idea of whether she's talking about you or the memory of you is down to your interpretation vs mine. She's more likely being metaphorical here when what she's saying doesn't even almost line up with anything actually shown, an issue I'm starting to notice with a lot of FEH stuff now.
Her statement doesn't contradict anything that is shown. It's not even my interpretation vs yours when she is quite literally saying that people stop existing after death, both in the English and Japanese version, the latter of which doesn't even mention anything about the memory of someone, just that they stop existing after death.

The dead were described as being "like specters", despite the fact that characters such as Surtr don't have souls, and are a part of the dead. So the dead are incorporeal beings which includes beings without souls, so they can't just be ghosts floating around. Combined with the fact that death herself is literally stating people don't exist after death, I feel that at least a "likely/possibly Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1)" should be warranted here.

Anyways, sorry if I sound aggressive, I'm typing this after a bunch of stuff I had to do.
 
Yeah, Intelligent Systems like recently included BS Fire Emblem as FE6 and Heroes as FE16, with Echoes and 3H being 17 and 18 respectively. I can see Heroes but BS FE sounds really weird since it's only like 4 short chapters. Well, more like 4 games each a chapter long. Which was also included in the FE12 remake.
 
Just put it this way: It's like Goku shouting "Kamehameha" while he's punching someone. Yes, there is nothing stopping him from doing so, but it makes absolutely no sense, since he only says that when he is doing the Kamehameha. The same way that the characters only say their special quotes when their special triggers.
Kamehameha's a pretty poor example since it's literally the name of the attack unlike any of the special quotes afaik
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I mean what else am I supposed to say? There doesn't need to be a statement from IS that says "Heroes is canon btw", when that is what they're showing. We know this as they put Heroes with the rest of the mainline games, and exclude spinoffs all times it is shown (The Archanea Legacy Book, FE Cipher, Sakurai's statement, and any others I missed).
I think I initially misunderstood what you meant by "mainline game" in hindsight. I agree that it makes sense to consider FEH a canon crossover and sorry for the miscommunication.

Her statement doesn't contradict anything that is shown. It's not even my interpretation vs yours when she is quite literally saying that people stop existing after death, both in the English and Japanese version, the latter of which doesn't even mention anything about the memory of someone, just that they stop existing after death.

The dead were described as being "like specters", despite the fact that characters such as Surtr don't have souls, and are a part of the dead. So the dead are incorporeal beings which includes beings without souls, so they can't just be ghosts floating around. Combined with the fact that death herself is literally stating people don't exist after death, I feel that at least a "likely/possibly Nonexistent Physiology (Type 1)" should be warranted here.

Anyways, sorry if I sound aggressive, I'm typing this after a bunch of stuff I had to do.
From the quotes provided everything she says could be interpreted as a metaphor. If there are cases of death being consistent like you say, it's worth providing scans, but as it stands a "possibly" is being generous imo.

And you don't, you're actually one of the most pleasant people I've had to argue with in all my years on the site.
 
Consistent with the nonexistence thing, sorry.

I was asking for scans of the examples you gave and anything else to support the idea of NEP for being dead.
 
Actually, nvm looking at some more evidence, it looks like undead characters are souls/sprits, which I believe contradicts NEP. So I'll drop NEP Type 1 for Undead for now. And sorry for the late response.
 
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