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As the person who made the calc, I believe the natural method is fine. We've outlined our reasoning in thr comments and made a thread for it to be discussed but never popped off, so I guess you can get some staff input in this thread.
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JJK AP Downgrade
- Thread starter Arkenis
- Start date
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I'm still very much against it
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Ummmm as the resident anime earthquake expert, the total seismic method is completely wrong to use in this scenario
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High 7-C for Gojo and Sukuna off of the earthquake calc should be fine, the fire arrow calc can be used as further justficiation for Yuta being Low 7-C+ (since it was the strongest feat Yuji witnessed 15F Sukuna perform and still thought he could rely on Yuta to stop another massacre without seeing Yuta's full power) and then scaling other high tiers off of him.
The Disaster Curses (Jogo, Hanami, Dagon) should really be 8-A+ if we use the (pending) revised version of Hanami's calc
The Disaster Curses (Jogo, Hanami, Dagon) should really be 8-A+ if we use the (pending) revised version of Hanami's calc
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- Thread starter
- #365
Can ya please stop tryna scale Yuta to Sukuna
bro is not him
EldemadeDityjon
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Yeah Completely Disagree with Scaling Yuta to Sukuna. Yuji has no idea of Yuta full power and his only guess was based on large cursed energy Yuta had. Obviously he was just making a guess.
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15F Sukuna is closer to Gojo than Yuta, he's not Low 7-C. Yuta according to this CRT scales far above ISBDK Mahito which would already put him above baseline Low 7-C and the fire arrow feat was the strongest feat Yuji witnessed Sukuna perform (it was literally part of why he had a breakdown and wanted Yuta to prevent another massacre if Sukuna got loose again)Can ya please stop tryna scale Yuta to Sukuna
Yuji still fought a Yuta who was holding back and felt how strong a partial manifestation of Rika was, if anything this is just even more grounds to scale Yuta
PrinceofPein
Username Only- 8,947
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Another thread that will get concluded in June 2024.
Unfollowing till then
Unfollowing till then
EldemadeDityjon
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Yuta holding back against Yuji but that doesnt make him know Sukunas Strength. Are we gonna ignore the fact 15F Sukuna stomping Ryu in one shot and speed blizt also
From Shibuya arc Fire Arrow > Cleave.
Ryu got negged by Cleave alone saying Yuta Will scale to Fire Arrow doesn't make sense.
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Cleave's AP varies depending on the target specifically to one-shot them so arguing Fire Arrow > Cleave based on Ryu getting one-shotted is a moot point.
The scaling is in line with this thread since Yuta and the high tiers scale far above ISBDK Mahito.
What? Yuji witnessed Sukuna's fire arrow wipe out a good chunk of Shibuya and still expected Yuta to be able to stop Sukuna because he didn't want that massacre to be repeated, I'm not saying Yuta scales to 15F Sukuna, I'm scaling him to the strongest feat Yuji himself witnessed Sukuna perform and then thought Yuta could match up to.
EldemadeDityjon
He/Him- 15,308
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Cleave can't be adjusted to everyones durability if that's the case Gojo would have died in first Domain battle.
If you want to scale Yuta based on Mahito sure but using Yuji statement and Sukuna feat doesn't makes sense Unless we say Sukuna was holding back on that fire arrow which negged Mahogara.
Also from the look of it Sukuna did used Cleave on Mahogara and it adapted to it so it's durability will on that level technically fire arrow does scales above Cleave in this case.
CE ≠ AP. Yuji was impressed by Yuta CE not about his AP.
Anyway I don't have a problem with your opinion if other supporters believes Yuta scales to fire arrow so be it.
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Cleave obviously has a limit, Sukuna himself has to above a target in power to be able to oneshot with Cleave since it's AP is adjusted based on his own power but Gojo is his equal so he can't do that, meanwhile Sukuna is far superior to someone like Ryu so he can oneshot with Cleave.
Mahoraga was still affected by Dismantle after adapting to it, its adaptation allowed him to see Sukuna's attacks to counter them, there's nothing about a durability increase. Sukuna used the fire arrow to finish him off in one attack as it was still healing from Malevolent Shrine.
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- Thread starter
- #374
Yuta can be 7-C. I already said the high tiers should be. But my issue is you trying to use Yuji's stuff to say Yuta can now match the fire arrow cuz he saw it, it's not concrete enough and there's nothing else supporting such scaling independent of it.
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Regarding the fire arrow calc, weren't we gonna add an updated end that accounted for the vaporization of all the building/debris left behind by MS? That would raise the result significantly. That said though, there's a calc for God Tiers that put them in 7-B IIRC Assuming current Kenjaku counts as a god tier that is.
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- Thread starter
- #376
Ken would be high tier for now. Nothing really got him matching up to Gojo or Sukuna
EldemadeDityjon
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Only Gojo and Sukuna God tiers
But 15F Sukuna Obviously scales above Kenny. So that fire arrow does not scale to him.
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That's fair. I didn't know if God Tier was strictly reserved for Sukuna/Gojo level characters or not. However, if he's not god tier but just high-tier, it's worth mentioning your calc of him surviving the pull of a gravity from a little ways away from its event horizon. Which netted Megaton results.
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Wrong on that front, 15F Sukuna scales to the likes of Maki and Yuji since both were able to harm him. He's not a god tier at 15F, just upper tiers of high.
EldemadeDityjon
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Yuji and Maki Combined ~ 15F Holding Back < 15F Meguna full power >>>> Ryu ~< Yuta > Yuki < Kenjaku
Yuta is second only to Gojo which puts him above Yuki
Also I didn't say he is God tier in 15F but his fire arrow calculation doesn't scale to anyone.
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- Thread starter
- #381
Not in power. Just in unusual ability its entirely irrelevant in scaling.
Yuji and Maki who both got amps which we have no idea if they scale above Yuta or to him. Also we're talking about the fire arrow not them just throwing punches.
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Why? The only contradiction to Yuji's statement would be Ryu getting fodderised by 15F Sukuna which I've already argued against.
15F Meguna at full power managed to stop and clash with a Gojo who was intending on killing Kenjaku
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- Thread starter
- #383
It is. The other strong characters rn besides Gojo and Sukuna get absolutely stomped by them.
EldemadeDityjon
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Oh. Okay. I mistook that statement then. So they are technically relative for being a special grade right?
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Haven't gotten this accepted yet, but I was gonna go ask someone to evaluate it. Low-End getting accepted means 7-B Kenjaku, high-end means 7-A.
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- Thread starter
- #386
Because the statement holds no actual weight in if Yuta can take on the fie arrow at all. You are solely arguing on statement from Yuji who is just asking his senior to help him if Sukuna comes out. Yuta even tells him "I'll do what I can" he's not even confident in it himself.
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- Thread starter
- #387
No there's nothing saying they're rel cuz they're special grade either. They just do not scale at the moment
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What I'm saying is that 15F Sukuna isn't a god tier so he's able to be scaled off for other characters in relation to his fire arrow, especially since we were shown people able to fight with him in his 15 finger state. Especially since Sukuna that fought Mahogara should be weaker than the one that fought Ryu due to Sukuna still accumlating cursed energy even while within Yuji.
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Is it possible to argue Sukuna was holding back when he fired the arrow, and Itadori only saw what wasn't his full power, and believed that Yuta could win if Sukuna was only as strong as what he saw? Or is that not possible?
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- Thread starter
- #390
Is there anything I might have to correct? Or are those methods fine enough? Getting that accepted would probably fix this ap issue for high tiers honestly
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- #391
I actually think he increased the power of it compared to the one which one shot Jogo so I can't see a reason to hold back. I doubt it's fp though.
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I mean me personally, I think the second method could work since there's a gravity with that much pulling on him. If he wasn't durable enough to survive his PE, his feet should've turned to chalk. But the first method also seems to work imo since it's calc'ing the pressure output across his entire body. The only argument that the second one might not work is the fact that the gravity is pulling Kenjaku towards the black hole and not the ground so he wouldn't need to survive PE. But I think to hold himself in place he'd have to endure it.
I figured that since he was just finishing up a weakened Mahoraga that he had no reason to go all out. With that said, does 15f Sukuna hold back to a specified amount against Itadori and Maki? If so, you could just scale them to that percent of his power, and assume his full power is the highest value he scales to.
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Yuki and Kenjaku scale to what value again?
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It's basically the force Kenjaku would need to endure when close, but not inside of the event horizon of Yuki's black hole. He can endure a strong tidal force, and the calc provides two methods that would account for those tidal forces he would survive at the distance he was from the black hole.
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- Thread starter
- #395
Yeah I was thinking that since he just used domain he'd see no reason to go all out again. but still the explosion compared to what Jogo died to tells me he amped it more than so he held back less against Maho. And He doesnt hold back physically on them I'd say but ct wise he fluctuates i think 8% to 10%?
EldemadeDityjon
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Sukuna may be stronger than Shibuya arc or may not be but the fact Yuji and Maki scaling to 15F Sukuna doesn't make sense. We don't even have an absolute idea of how much his power was restricted and fire arrow is currently his strongest ace so scaling it to his base Physical status doesn't make sense.
Also Sukuna wasn't completely took over Megumi body until Sukuna killed Yorozu and we see his soul getting sunk into deeper so I am not sure even if he accumulated power he has same amount of output when he was inside Yuji body.
Yuji was Unconscious when Sukuna was rampaging Shibuya but Here Megumi was constantly tried to hold back Sukuna power. So we can't be so sure about Megumi body output was on same level as Yuji body.
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It is possible he simply held back the destructive range since he didn't want to accidentally catch Fushiguro in the crosshairs of the blast. He was trying to keep it a localized battle between the two at the end after all. Before immediately going in to save Fushiguro.
That said, if we assumed Sukuna held back when using the fire arrow against Mahoraga, that simply means Itadori believes Yuta > Suppressed Sukuna
Or rather Yuta > What Itadori believes is Sukuna's full power
Since he'd only be able to go off of what he saw after all. Not like he could know Sukuna's full power.
And if he uses 8-10%, we could just scale them to 8-10% of his power. Just find 10% of his best feat, and they could scale off of that. That is if he stated to be holding back to 10%. If not, maybe heavily downscaling to the baseline of a tier would be fine? I've seen downscaling be used flexibly.
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We're given a straight up value for how much Sukuna's power is restricted in his fight with Yuji and Maki. He's at 10% cursed output, hence his reliance on physicals for harming the two since that wasn't restricted. And we already know through Yuji that the vessel's physicals are enhanced through becoming a vessel.
We have a value for his cursed techinques to scale him to and stuff like defending himself doesn't fall under cursed output so any damage to that Sukuna should be considered scaling to his durability.
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All of Jujutsu is unusual, that’s not a defeater to the argument. That’s why there are actually so little in the grand scheme of it all, and the actual kanji can be interpreted three ways: unusual abilities / superpower / power beyond humans.
How does this imply a lack of confidence?
Most importantly, Kenjaku admits that Jujutsu High’s heavy hitters are led by Okkotsu, which puts stock into his strength. Him losing to Ishigori in a clash isn’t anti-feat, especially when factoring in post-DE, his blasts were weaker, and his “maximum output” is relative to how much CE he had left, after continuously using Granite Blast. Same for Yuta, coupled alongside the fact that he was aiming not to kill, and failed to use any lethal weapons.
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Isn't "cursed output" how much Cursed Energy they can output? If so, don't 99% of Sorcerers use Cursed Energy to reinforce their body? Which would include durability and striking strength? I do agree with the 10% thing tho.
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