Spamton vs Kaneki (Deltarune vs Tokyo Ghoul) ([ 2-7-3 ]

[Anonymous_Learner]

Are you one of those people who says that all characters in Silksons are stronger than in HK because in Silksong, Hortnet loses 2 HP at a time when getting hit?

No, 20 hp for Undertale and 90 Hp for Deltarune are full accepted mechanics on this site

Something about Undertale, Deltarune, SOUL Hax and Durability Negation

So... this has been a thing I had in mind from quite some time. I still plan to continue the big UT revisions, but given that this affects both Undertale and Deltarune, I feel like this has more priority. This has been discussed, removed and then re-added multiple times across the years, so I'd...

vsbattles.com

 

[God_of_perversion]

Are you one of those people who says that all characters in Silksons are stronger than in HK because in Silksong, Hortnet loses 2 HP at a time when getting hit?

Nope,thats deadass how undertale/deltarune soul hax is treated here (because all game mechanics are canon including hp)

 

[God_of_perversion]

we're making such assumptions, then why aren't we talking about the fact that a character needs to hit their heart with spiritual damage to win?

It's all because of the game's design, because we never see what battles look like from the outside. But I don't think a character in this universe can kill another character by hitting their hair.

And I also insist that hitting a kagune won't cause spiritual damage because it's a circulating stream of cells, not something like a tail.

By that logic, if character A goes to take a pee and character B hits the stream with spiritual damage, character A will die because the stream is connected to their body.

1: the Soul isn't the heart,the soul is the cumination of the entire being (literally first line of undertale)
2:soul hax works even while hitting armour

 

[God_of_perversion]

When transforming into a kakuja, Kaneki gain

Blue light special is such a high dura increase that you deal pretty much zero damage to Spantom while its active so they will probably null each other out (one shot increase vs zero damage dura increase)

 

[NikHelton]

Blue light special is such a high dura increase that you deal pretty much zero damage to Spantom while its active so they will probably null each other out (one shot increase vs zero damage dura increase)

Yes, but Kaneki is already scaling much higher than 890 Tons and the limited contact area and sharpness of the kagune do their job

 

[DarthSorox]

From what I understand, they can both deal fatal blows to each other, both can inflict wounds that cannot be healed, and their LS is relatively equal.
However, Kaneki has more flexible attacks, instinctive actions, heightened senses, slow-motion vision, and a kakuja that increases speed. He also knows how to fight danmaku and actively dodges attacks. He also has better endurance and can fight even with fatal wounds that he cannot regenerate.
A battle of attrition will be on his side; he has a greater evasive toolkit and superior skills.

Kaneki FRA

 

[Da3ggman]

Doesn't Kaneki have that good good AD slop?

 

[God_of_perversion]

Yes, but Kaneki is already scaling much higher than 890 Tons and the limited contact area and sharpness of the kagune do their job

Spantom also upscale with his dura value quite a bit but he has a higher range and sound waves danmaku which sould be invisble (i think)?

 

[God_of_perversion]

Also if Spantom goes giga mode piercing attacks would be actually bad for kaneki since he becomes over 20m tall

 

[Arkenis]

Someone pls update Kaneki's page

"Tokyo Ghoul EoS" is used

EOS as in end of series? As in 7-C?

Anything above 8-A is restricted

What am I missing?

 

[God_of_perversion]

Anything above 8-A is restricted
SBA otherwise

Wait,that means its a NERFED FIRST KEY kaneki

 

[God_of_perversion]

The only thing above 8A for spantom is his dura with blue light special and his reality warping which doesn't scale to his stats and is basically just a bfr,Kaneki is coocked here

 

[Foriaa]

Doesn't Kaneki have that good good AD slop?

Yes, but I'm not convinced he can regen from soul based damage

 

[God_of_perversion]

Yes, but I'm not convinced he can regen from soul based damage

Kaneki doesn't have Ad at his first key

 

[Foriaa]

Kaneki doesn't have Ad at his first key

Yes he does

• Regeneration (Mid; All one-eyed ghouls scale from Amon, who regenerated his head and torn chest)
• Reactive Evolution & Accelerated Development (Each new injury increases the number of RC pathways in their body, making their bodies faster, stronger, more resilient, and enhancing regeneration)
• Fear Manipulation (Similar To Ken Kaneki. Kurona terrified experienced investigators by creating an illusion of deadly miasma around herself)

 

[God_of_perversion]

Yes he does

• Regeneration (Mid; All one-eyed ghouls scale from Amon, who regenerated his head and torn chest)
• Reactive Evolution & Accelerated Development (Each new injury increases the number of RC pathways in their body, making their bodies faster, stronger, more resilient, and enhancing regeneration)
• Fear Manipulation (Similar To Ken Kaneki. Kurona terrified experienced investigators by creating an illusion of deadly miasma around herself)

Thats on his fourth key

 

[God_of_perversion]

I see,Its on the one eyed ghoul physiology page but there was nothing on the profile that said "one eyed ghoul physiology" only "rinkaku" unless i'm blind

 

[Foriaa]

He has all of it because he's a one eyed ghoul, his post dragon key should say enhanced as well since its lets him jump tiers

 

[God_of_perversion]

He has all of it because he's a one eyed ghoul, his post dragon key should say enhanced as well since its lets him jump tiers

Yeah but he doesn't have one eyed ghoul physiology on his profile

 

[Foriaa]

that should be fixed

 

[NikHelton]

The only thing above 8A for spantom is his dura with blue light special and his reality warping which doesn't scale to his stats and is basically just a bfr,Kaneki is coocked here

Does he lock his opponents in another dimension and leave them there forever? Otherwise, it's just a change of battlefield.

 

[Doggo]

Erwin Smith and Kamina

The GOATS

 

[Qurbonboev]

Wait,that means its a NERFED FIRST KEY kaneki

I saw it being used several times(in his victorious matchup no less), so I thought it would be fair enough to restrict them, he after all has AP/Dura advantage.

Reactive Evolution & Accelerated Development (Each new injury increases the number of RC pathways in their body, making their bodies faster, stronger, more resilient, and enhancing regeneration)

How much stronger he would get from 3-4 injuries from x2 weaker opponent?

Are you one of those people who says that all characters in Silksons are stronger than in HK because in Silksong, Hortnet loses 2 HP at a time when getting hit?

It's accepted because they are things that actually exists in game world.
Deltarune SOUL has more hp, but enemies there deal more damage, so in balance soulhax from them is overall equal in potency. I wouldn't call it broken, since for many verses soulhax straight up oneshots enemy with no soul resist.

Also if Spantom goes giga mode piercing attacks would be actually bad for kaneki since he becomes over 20m tall

And starts sucking him into his mouth(with superior LS) to deal damage.

Giving him prior knowledge about soulhax. And yes, he won't be able to regen it's damage

 

[Foriaa]

How much stronger he would get from 3-4 injuries from x2 weaker opponent?

Nothing too crazy from what I can recall, he’ll get stronger, but more damage is required before he can start blitzing and one shotting.

But I doubt it’ll just be 3-4 injures since this dude has Danmaku

 

[NikHelton]

Honestly, guys, I don't quite understand you. Soulhax usually works as an attack that can't be healed unless you have resistance.

To be effective, it must hit a person's vital organs, not just scratch them. The exception is when a soul is burned or destroyed by a single touch.
A simple scratch from a Soulhax-enhanced weapon won't be fatal. I didn't just use the hair example lightly. By your logic, cutting off a person's finger and hair would cause serious damage to their soul, but that's clearly not the case.

Kaneki, when blocking a kagune attack, won't be able to regenerate a tentacle. You know what he'll do? He'll just create a new one.

Danmaku shouldn't be a huge problem either, considering Koma and Irimi can easily dodge omnidirectional machine gun fire from all directions, and Koma himself can dodge shockwaves and danmaku shots from point-blank range. Kaneki scales above them and still has the advantage of Accelerated Perception and Kakuja Accelerator

@Foriaa, Kaneki just doesn't get hit by attacks

 

[M2u12]

Let's start with the fact that Kaneki also fights well in a berserk state.

Let's finish by saying that at the end of Part I, he's in control of his half-kakuji form, and after he cuts off Amon's arm, he immediately emerges from his kakuji form and checks on his opponent. He didn't try to eat his armor like he did with Shinohara, and he actually used his Centipede form for a swift strike.

I’m not saying he fights poorly in his Kakuja form, but being in that state lead him to trade blows unnecessarily (For example, Arata Amon vs Kakuja Kaneki), whereas he could have used his agility to evade attacks instead.

And no, at this point, I don't believe he has control over his Kakuja in this 8A key. Yeah, the end of Part 1 is debatable regarding his control, but he’s already 7C by then and anything above 8A is restricted in this Versus Thread.

 

[M2u12]

How much stronger he would get from 3-4 injuries from x2 weaker opponent?

Realistically, after taking just a single hit, that's more than enough for him to blitz and one-shot his opponent.

But in order to do that, he needs to take soul damage first, which he has no resistance to whatsoever.

That is why I think he should have prior knowledge about Soul Hax. that way, he can avoid being hit by it in the first place.

 

[NikHelton]

Realistically, after taking just a single hit, that's more than enough for him to blitz and one-shot his opponent.

But in order to do that, he needs to take soul damage first, which he has no resistance to whatsoever.

That is why I think he should have prior knowledge about Soul Hax. that way, he can avoid being hit by it in the first place.

This condition has already been written. But I can't figure out another thing: will Kaneki be able to survive even one hit to his soul? His supernatural willpower and resilience should allow him to do so, but as I understand it, the average soul in Undertale has 20 HP, and Spamton's damage output is 90 HP. Isn't that a one-shot?

 

[StrymULTRA]

This condition has already been written. But I can't figure out another thing: will Kaneki be able to survive even one hit to his soul? His supernatural willpower and resilience should allow him to do so, but as I understand it, the average soul in Undertale has 20 HP, and Spamton's damage output is 90 HP. Isn't that a one-shot?

Average soul in Undertale, but Spamton is from Deltarune, where the SOUL there is 90 HP instead, and Spamton NEO generally deals from 30 to 47 damage.

 

[NikHelton]

Well, for now I'll vote for Kaneki for the reasons stated above

 

[M2u12]

Okay, let me summarize win con for each side.

Kaneki:
Agility
Skill advantage
Amp (Accelerated Perception & Kakuja)
Analytical skills
Instinctive Action
Enhanced Senses
AD
Elasticity additional limbs (Kagune)
Prior knowledge on Soul hax

Spamton:
Soul hax (Can 2 or 3 shot Kaneki)
Danmaku
Dura Amp
Self-heal/Regen
Range advantage

The thing that would be the biggest problem for Kaneki is probably danmaku, but he should still be able to evade it thanks to his analytical skills and agility. He can fight against multiple investigators at the same time with great agility and able to analyze the movements of ghouls who use kagune, which are harder than usual to read due to their erratic motion. On top of that, abilities like perception amplification and enhanced senses would greatly support this, with instinctive action being the cherry on top.

Kaneki should be able to cover enough distance to attack Spamton, and if Bluelight Specil is something that needs to be activated, then Kaneki should be able to one-shot him before Spamton activates it, due to Kagune surface area and massively upscale from 893.

And if Spamton activates the Bluelight Special, Kaneki will simply have to continuously dodge and attack.

that is how i see the fight for now.

 

[M2u12]

Also, how fast can Spamton heal himself?

 

[StrymULTRA]

Also, how fast can Spamton heal himself?

Thought-based.

 

[M2u12]

Thought-based.

It says, "Private video", I can't watch it. lol

 

[Arkenis]

voting spamton

 

[StrymULTRA]

It says, "Private video", I can't watch it. lol

Weird.

 

[Anonymous_Learner]

Spamton fra

 

[God_of_perversion]

Okay, let me summarize win con for each side.

Kaneki:
Agility
Skill advantage
Amp (Accelerated Perception & Kakuja)
Analytical skills
Instinctive Action
Enhanced Senses
AD
Elasticity additional limbs (Kagune)
Prior knowledge on Soul hax

Spamton:
Soul hax (Can 2 or 3 shot Kaneki)
Danmaku
Dura Amp
Self-heal/Regen
Range advantage

The thing that would be the biggest problem for Kaneki is probably danmaku, but he should still be able to evade it thanks to his analytical skills and agility. He can fight against multiple investigators at the same time with great agility and able to analyze the movements of ghouls who use kagune, which are harder than usual to read due to their erratic motion. On top of that, abilities like perception amplification and enhanced senses would greatly support this, with instinctive action being the cherry on top.

Kaneki should be able to cover enough distance to attack Spamton, and if Bluelight Specil is something that needs to be activated, then Kaneki should be able to one-shot him before Spamton activates it, due to Kagune surface area and massively upscale from 893.

And if Spamton activates the Bluelight Special, Kaneki will simply have to continuously dodge and attack.

that is how i see the fight for now.

Isn't the one shot amp restricted? Because if base kaneki alread upscale from his value then a one shot amp would definately be a higher tier (also i tought the amp was the reason why kaneki was tier 7 in the first place)

 

[NikHelton]

Thought-based.

Will this cope with regen negation?

 

[M2u12]

He can heal from fatal damage like piece through torso? If so then IDK how kanaki well deal with that.

Also, Is Bluelight Special something I need to activate manually, or is it automatic/thought-based like his healing?