Honkaiverse Plot Manipulation Addition

[Voidnether]

There's already an entire blog section made for this but it was apparently never a thing (since we all unanimously decided to push for Logic Manipulation but we failed).

I'll keep this brief for everyone, Herrscher of Truth or the awakened version of Herrscher of Reason is able to manipulate "logic" in Project Stigma, Reason here is inferred to Narratives and Project Stigma is a story that governs all stories. The human mind is a narrative constituting a story unique to each person.

Basically, Bronya gets Plot Manipulation and everyone has Unconventional Resistance to Plot Manipulation since it's related to mind, soul and information being linked together in Honkaiverse as explained here.

I recommend to read the scans thoroughly on the blog, it covers the full context of everything so nothing is cherrypicked or left out.

I sure hope no one would overcomplicate this, and if someone is asking, it's not metafictional similar to Plot Manipulation in Genshin Impact that was accepted in the sense that it's 1-A or whatever, it's also similar to Wuthering Waves that was also accepted albeit with a more substantial evidence about the Reality & Fiction stuff

Though on the other hand, the blog pretty much explains about this Reality vs Fiction (if someone read it to the very end of the section) stuff which I definitely think should qualify in the first place regardless.



I believe this is enough to be a substantial amount of evidence why Narratives and Civilizations are two different things, in which civilizations are constructed obviously by what civilizations are today (such as morality, language, economy, customs, aesthetics that constructs this civilization with stories and narratives as the fundamental part of the civilization), but I am talking about the narratives itself as explained here


These are all, I believe to be sufficient evidence why it's Plot Manipulation.

EDIT: If it's not sufficient, I believe Reality Warping and Dream Manipulation should be sufficient at the very least and maybe other haxes too as Subjective Reality is already accepted on Bronya's page (already there)

• Agree: PedjaTarzan, BoastJr, Nissa_Ushiromiya, God_of_perversion
• Neutral:
• Disagree: Rakih_Elyan, Robo432343, Setsuna_tenma, Shiroiyo, Rutæhh, AyOgUyS, Arkenis, Planck69 (Disagreed with Plot Manipulation, no inputs about the rest), Theglassman12 (Agrees with Dream Manipulation)

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Disagree, the narrative told in this is the narrative as in account of a series of related events or experiences, not in metafictional sense.

 

[Voidnether]

Disagree, the narrative told in this is the narrative as in account of a series of related events or experiences, not in metafictional sense.

??? All those civilizations are clearly explained to be fictional in the blog, waging war against reality (Read the Idea, Truth and scroll down below the Narratives part), Bronya sees the entire civilizations as fiction (but obviously not in the sense that it'd warrant 1-A), it's obviously in a metafictional because we'd be nuking other verses Plot Manipulation if this is actually the case

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

??? All those civilizations are clearly explained to be fictional in the blog, waging war against reality, Bronya sees the entire civilizations as fiction (but obviously not in the sense that it'd warrant 1-A), it's obviously in a metafictional because we'd be nuking other verses Plot Manipulation if this is actually the case lol

It is narrative as in the flow of civilization itself, the fact that R>F failed already proven that this is not metafictional.

What Project Stigma determined to do are controlling the narrative of human civilization as in the kind of narrative you see in modern medias. And the narrative to control all narrative is a hyperbole in my opinion, as in it is the ultimate narrative of humanity.

Fun fact. Stories are a defining component of human culture, predating recorded history. Written narratives survive from ancient civilizations, detailing for example the histories and mythologies of ancient Egyptian, Greek, Chinese, and Indian cultures.

 

[Voidnether]

It is narrative as in the flow of civilization itself, the fact that R>F failed already proven that this is not metafictional.

What Project Stigma determined to do are controlling the narrative of human civilization as in the kind of narrative you see in modern medias.

Fun fact. Stories are a defining component of human culture, predating recorded history. Written narratives survive from ancient civilizations, detailing for example the histories and mythologies of ancient Egyptian, Greek, Chinese, and Indian cultures.

You're basically just saying you have to be 1-A for Plot Manipulation, which is incorrect. Project Stigma is still stated to be a story governing all stories either way, it's as blatant as this. Sorry but if the R>F fails and it's not Plot Manipulation, do we just nuke the verse that gets their Plot Manipulation days ago despite this not being a problem at all in there? Unironically in Honkaiverse, Bronya is the one with the most breaking the 4th wall feat other than what's on the OP..

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

You're basically just saying you have to be 1-A for Plot Manipulation, which is incorrect. Project Stigma is still stated to be a story governing all stories either way, it's as blatant as this.

You literally said seeing civilization as fiction lol. At this instance you needed R>F unless the base reality itself is already metafictional like Undertale, Doki-doki literature Club, or straight up making metaphysical part of the reality itself metafictional like Cristoforo.

Story governing all story mean nothing when narrative in this instance are not in metafictional state. You could even say that the collective West are the narrative to control all narrative due to how they control the media, news and story within Western cultures.

Anyway, I would just let staffs decide.

 

[Voidnether]

You literally said seeing civilization as fiction lol. At this instance you needed R>F unless the base reality itself is already metafictional like Undertale, Doki-doki literature Club, or straight up making metaphysical part of the reality itself metafictional like Cristoforo.

Story governing all story mean nothing when narrative in this instance are not in metafictional state.

Anyway, I would just let staffs decide.

Undertale doesn't even have Plot Manipulation as far as I could recall, it's just breaking the 4th wall, Monika's "metafictional" is also through breaking the 4th wall, if you actually did Wuthering Waves's story, you'd realize that Cristoforo is just creating an existence through said Plot Manipulation. Where's even the metafictional part in this other than him constantly refering himself as the author and the one who planned the entire Rinascita Arc (the same thread legit said it doesn't have to be metafictional)? There's none and they still qualify for the ability anyway. It's a huge difference, heck you could literally say the same for Cristoforo

 

[PedjaTarzan]

There's already an entire blog section made for this but it was apparently never a thing (since we all unanimously decided to push for Logic Manipulation but we failed).

I'll keep this brief for everyone, Herrscher of Truth or the awakened version of Herrscher of Reason is able to manipulate "logic" in Project Stigma, Reason here is inferred to Narratives and Project Stigma is a story that governs all stories. The human mind is a narrative constituting a story unique to each person.

Basically, Bronya gets Plot Manipulation and everyone has Unconventional Resistance to Plot Manipulation since it's related to mind, soul and information being linked together in Honkaiverse as explained here.

This applies more towards project stigma than herrscher of truth:

Plot Manipulation is the ability to create, destroy, or control the plot that governs reality. Commonly found in metafictional stories, the plot can be understood as a fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional. It is the description of the world that doesn't only describe, but determines, reality itself. As such, by altering the plot, one can achieve virtually any effect, in a similar fashion as with Reality Warping.

By this point this is what project stigma is upon its completition:

The Project Stigma was originally a project that involved assimilating humanity with the Imaginary Space and planting Stigmas within them. It involves entire worlds, dimensions and all types of Imaginary Constructs, that stems from fundamental Imaginary units so-called "Narratives". "Narratives" consists of everything and the smallest fundamental measurement of the Imaginary, everything is made out of "Narratives"; the topics will be covered here are "Civilizations", "Ideas" and "Enlightenment", which are the core special concepts that Project Stigma entirely revolves upon.

Evolution​

​

The lowest level of Project Stigma is the establishment of fiction, the fundamental basis and origins of all abstract concepts; "idea" is the fundamental core unit of Project Stigma, a contradictory concept (hence, logic-defying concept) and bestows characters "enlightenment", another conceptual unit derived from "idea" that eliminates the boundaries between reality and fiction by outlining another concept named "truth".

"Substance" and "change" are the most important properties to existence; this ties up with the dimensional evolution of Civilizations where their "substance" are liable to "change", causing them evolve to higher dimensions.

With this information inferred, it can be postulated that this thing called "idea" grants a lower fictional being dimensional transcendence, allowing them to interact with real entities of a higher realm. Keep this in mind, this is crucial information to support and establish the logic of further content I'll present, for solidifying context and connecting shreds of evidence.
"Truth" comes in varities of forms; it is what makes up the transcendental nature of the beings of Project Stigma. The lowest level of truth are set within fiction and all initially begin with "life"; if one were to transcend from itself (achieving death), then they'll ascend into higher planes of existence, evolving their consciousness into a higher form.

Project Stigma forces lifeforms to evolve by rendering them to break through from the confines of fiction and the paradoxical nature of life, and in-order to achieve that, they'll need to become "the truth that transcends itself", in other words "die", to become something much greater; it is what constructs the foundation of "Civilizations", created by the bones and last speech of dead lifeforms from "fiction
Moving on, with the next gallery being presented is in the direct same scene as the previous.

Bronya asks PROMETHEUS about Project Stigma. PROMETHEUS said that Project Stigma is the ultimate parent Narrative that creates and governs all lower stories. In other words, it is the project created by the apex story, to govern all other stories.

Civilizations can transcendentally spiral from a plane of existence of another Civilization, causing them to exist on their own, independent from other Civilizations and no longer rendered quantitatively inferior by their storyteller; implicating the evolution upon higher dimensional layers, as the spiralled Civilizations are no longer deemeed inferior in the face of their storyteller, to the point of even surpassing them and begin to tell their own story. Their former selves becomes nothing but meta-fictional entities in the face of their current selves.

The absolute apex of Project Stigma is "the absolute idea of self-existence" and "conceptual infinity", and higher-dimensions; implying that the apex level of Project Stigma needs the Civilization to spiral and transcend upon the layer of "conceptual infinity", the ultimate level of ontological existence that signifies "the absolute idea of self-existence".




Any type of Narratives can come in different forms; whether it be a dimension of data as if its a mere program, they are all Narratives and all start off as a form of story.

The human mind is the giant woven web of neurons, and acts as one of the conceptual units of Narratives -- with each unit of a neuron, it consistutes a story that is unique to an individual and true-self, referring back to the concept of "Individuality" mentioned in the previous sections about "Idea", "Truth", etc. In the same sense, Civilizations are originally stories told by stories and fundamentally formed by "Ideas", with individual conceptual units called "People" (referencing to "Individuality" in the previous sections). "People" are clarified to be story units, in other words, measurements of "stories"; "stories" are the conceptually fundamental building blocks of Civilizations. Project Stigma governs the entire hierarchy of Civilizations, and can exist in any form it wants by deconstructing and recognising itself, in order for it to support the R>F evolution of Civilizations. PROMETHEUS classifies it as "graduation from childhood".

I can see it as Plot Manip with project stigma, since HoTR can directly affect it and she was the one who ****** up entire project stigma anyway.
Outside of it Bronya is literally just doing nothing lol, she just participated in a final fight and gave her core back to welt to box zephyro 6 years later.
(Did you rly expect to just link blog where half of text needed for this were under strike trough??)

 

[Voidnether]

This applies more towards project stigma than herrscher of truth:

By this point this is what project stigma is upon its completition:

I can see it as Plot Manip with project stigma, since HoTR can directly affect it and she was the one who ****** up entire project stigma anyway.
Outside of it Bronya is literally just doing nothing lol, she just participated in a final fight and gave her core back to welt to box zephyro 6 years later.
(Did you rly expect to just link blog where half of text needed for this were under strike trough??)

I linked the blog. It was always through Project Stigma anyway, but you get the point

 

[PedjaTarzan]

I linked the blog. It was always through Project Stigma anyway, but you get the point

If i was you id first complete entire P&A section regarding project stigma, since project stigma has A LOT of other stuff than just plot hax, then i would attempt this.

 

[Voidnether]

If i was you id first complete entire P&A section regarding project stigma, since project stigma has A LOT of other stuff than just plot hax, then i would attempt this.

Sorry the scans for the entire P&A section are nuked by imgur twin

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Undertale doesn't even have Plot Manipulation as far as I could recall, it's just breaking the 4th wall,

Nevermind

Monika's "metafictional" is also through breaking the 4th wall

She altered the game narrative directly

Cristoforo is just creating an existence through said Plot Manipulation

My apologies, but I intend to mean plot metafictional as it is being fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional.

But what narrative means in this is the real story of civilization that fought against Honkai.

 

[Robo432343]

disagree for the above reasons uwu

 

[Setsuna_tenma]

disagree for above reasons.

 

[Voidnether]

Nevermind


She altered the game narrative directly


My apologies, but I intend to mean plot metafictional as it is being fundamental aspect of reality once one views that reality as fictional.

But what narrative means in this is the real story of civilization that fought against Honkai.

Plot is the fundamental aspect of reality though in Honkaiverse? Project Stigma is the example, the civilization that fought against Honkai is fictional, Honkai is the "real" one here and these are all within the scope of Project Stigma that again, Herrscher of Truth is able to manipulate

The narrative there is linked with IM2 though, I don't really see the point when it's not purely "plot" based but it still has IM2 being more fundamental than the plot in the Virtual Machine (for DDLC)

 

[Ascka23]

in my opinion

Oh. Ok.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Plot is the fundamental aspect of reality though in Honkaiverse? Project Stigma is the example, the civilization that fought against Honkai is fictional, Honkai is the "real" one here and these are all within the scope of Project Stigma that again, Herrscher of Truth is able to manipulate

These are the narratives, as in the retelling of events, as in an epic, as in the narrative they told you on CNN. Not an actual narrative that you can manipulate its plot metafictionally.

Fun Fact: Owen Flanagn of Duke University, a leading consciousness researcher, writes, "Evidence strongly suggests that humans in all cultures come to cast their own identity in some sort of narrative form. We are inveterate storytellers."

The narrative there is linked with IM2 though, I don't really see the point when it's not purely "plot" based but it still has IM2 being more fundamental than the plot in the Virtual Machine (for DDLC)

False Equivalence

 

[SuperNova55555]

So reading a bit of the scans linked above, it seems to me that narrative refers to culture or history. A civilization, then, seems to be born from narrative insofar as it is a composite of its history. This is why there seems to be an inter-dependent relationship between the two; since humans (as the “individual units”) mentioned there are the proponent for the civilizations evolution, but the civilization itself also affects the humans within it.

 

[Voidnether]

So reading a bit of the scans linked above, it seems to me that narrative refers to culture or history. A civilization, then, seems to be born from narrative insofar as it is a composite of its history. This is why there seems to be an inter-dependent relationship between the two; since humans (as the “individual units”) mentioned there are the proponent for the civilizations evolution, but the civilization itself also affects the humans within it.

It's more of like history being dependent on plot here (which is what makes it fundamental in reality other than the most blatant example that Narratives compose civilizations and the existence of humanity, since we know history is pretty much fundamental in HSR), since we can't just ignore that Reason / Logic here is pretty much stated to be story itself + I'm not arguing it to be metafictional either when Genshin and WuWa clearly still qualify without them being metafictional as that'd literally require 1-A (in the R>F page, lol)

 

[Furina003]

Interesting, following

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Kek

Fine then, you want to play this game? Let's address the first gallery on Narratives section within the blog.

Bronya: The limitations... of narrative?

PROMETHEUS: I don't mean repetitive rhetoric that continues ad nauseam — I mean believable narratives of substance.

PROMETHEUS: Morality, money, language, customs, aesthetics, all narratives. All stories. Starting with the earliest people, living narratives...

PROMETHEUS: And this resulted in what we call civilization.

PROMETHEUS: As Dr. MEI had said, "civilization comes from fiction but transcends reality."

PROMETHEUS: For Project Stigma, the most easily deconstructed Herrscher of this era is the Herrscher of Reason, who poses a serious threat.

Bronya: Maybe it makes to say the Herrscher of Reason's construction or depiction is the stuff of fiction... But civilization?

PROMETHEUS: Yes. Everything beautiful in your life comes from human invention and perception. It's impossible to talk about such things apart from human will.

Look at Prometheus yaps. She explicitly defines what she means by "Narrative."

Morality, money, language, customs, aesthetics, all narratives.

If we follow your logic that "Narrative = The Fundamental of Reality," then money and customs are fundamental units.
Prometheus is using the standard definition of "Narrative", she is describing social constructs. Money and Laws do not exist in nature; they exist because humans tell a "story" that they exist. And what that means? Bronya’s ability to impose "limits on narratives" does not mean she is rewriting the script or the narratives. It means the Herrscher of Reason can define and deconstruct human concepts and inventions.

And then there is this goddamn quote:

Civilization comes from fiction but transcends reality.

Prometheus explains exactly how it transcends reality:

Everything beautiful in your life comes from human invention and perception. It's impossible to talk about such things apart from human will.

This is damn absurd.

Let me explain this in an easy way.
A rock is "Reality." A statue carved from that rock is "Civilization."
The statue "transcends reality" because it contains an Idea (Fiction/Narrative) imposed by humans. It is no longer just a rock; it is art.
Dr. MEI's quote implies that human invention (Project Stigma, HoR creations) creates things that are greater than the sum of their physical parts.

The definition of narratives already fell apart, it shouldn't be even used in the first place!

And by God, this is just the first gallery, and the interpretation is already way off the rails.
You want me to continue??? Round 2? The next damn gallery on the blog? Do you want me to bring in the raw scans too?

 

[Voidnether]

What that means? Bronya’s ability to impose "limits on narratives" does not mean she is rewriting the script or the narratives. It means the Herrscher of Reason can define and deconstruct human concepts and inventions.

Do you even know what Code Space is?
Yeah no, "way off the rails" because you decide to cherrypick it, I'll ask you that whether you would even know what Project Stigma actually is and its main goal and I'm sure you wouldn't.

Stories here construct reality and existence by the way, I don't know why you'd focus to one part (Narratives) when this is also stated. I legit don't understand your point at all with taking these social constructs to be actual but call Project Stigma being the story that contains all stories to be hyperbolical (yet, you can't prove why it's hyperbolic), the logic just doesn't work when the story here drives off from the storyteller the same way Istaroth has Plot Manipulation through Durin making his own story that drives off from his mother in Genshin and this was accepted in there lol.

I hope you know these same Narratives and Civilizations are also related to Finality resetting civilizations, et cetera which definitely proves that they're "actual".

 

[Ascka23]

Kek

Fine then, you want to play this game? Let's address the first gallery on Narratives section within the blog.



Look at Prometheus yaps. She explicitly defines what she means by "Narrative."

If we follow your logic that "Narrative = The Fundamental of Reality," then money and customs are fundamental units.
Prometheus is using the standard definition of "Narrative", she is describing social constructs. Money and Laws do not exist in nature; they exist because humans tell a "story" that they exist. And what that means? Bronya’s ability to impose "limits on narratives" does not mean she is rewriting the script or the narratives. It means the Herrscher of Reason can define and deconstruct human concepts and inventions.

And then there is this goddamn quote:

Prometheus explains exactly how it transcends reality:


This is damn absurd.

Let me explain this in an easy way.
A rock is "Reality." A statue carved from that rock is "Civilization."
The statue "transcends reality" because it contains an Idea (Fiction/Narrative) imposed by humans. It is no longer just a rock; it is art.
Dr. MEI's quote implies that human invention (Project Stigma, HoR creations) creates things that are greater than the sum of their physical parts.

The definition of narratives already fell apart, it shouldn't be even used in the first place!

And by God, this is just the first gallery, and the interpretation is already way off the rails.
You want me to continue??? Round 2? The next damn gallery on the blog? Do you want me to bring in the raw scans too?

Do you know the Petronas Twin Towers in Malaysia?

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Do you even know what Code Space is?
Yeah no, "way off the rails" because you decide to cherrypick it, I'll ask you that whether you would even know what Project Stigma actually is and its main goal and I'm sure you wouldn't.

Stories here construct reality and existence by the way, I don't know why you'd focus to one part (Narratives) when this is also stated. I legit don't understand your point at all with taking these social constructs to be actual but call Project Stigma being the story that contains all stories to be hyperbolical (yet, you can't prove why it's hyperbolic), the logic just doesn't work when the story here drives off from the storyteller the same way Istaroth has Plot Manipulation through Durin making his own story that drives off from his mother in Genshin and this was accepted in there lol.

Hoh, so that's your reply.

Yeah no, "way off the rails" because you decide to cherrypick it, I'll ask you that whether you would even know what Project Stigma actually is and its main goal and I'm sure you wouldn't.

To convert Humanity using Misteln the Cecilia walking stigmata and Finality to the goddamn sleeping land with Stigmata, while their physical body merges intothe spiritual soup of Adam.

Stories here construct reality and existence by the way, I don't know why you'd focus to one part (Narratives) when this is also stated.

This is a literary metaphor for Autonomy, not reality warping.

the logic just doesn't work when the story here drives off from the storyteller the same way Istaroth has Plot Manipulation through Durin making his own story that drives off from his mother in Genshin and this was accepted in there lol.

This is a Red Herring and Whataboutism. "Because Genshin did it" is not an argument for Honkai. If the Genshin thread accepted flowery language as literal metaphysics, that's an issue with that specific CRT.

because you decide to cherrypick it

You want the second round? the next gallery debunk? I will go through every scan and gallery there, then discuss them here so that you wouldn't have any basis to call me cherry-picking.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Do you know the Petronas Twin Towers in Malaysia?

What do you mean by this

 

[PedjaTarzan]

What do you mean by this

hes trolling, he literally went to someone guy asking if they support israel for no reason

 

[Voidnether]

Hoh, so that's your reply.


To convert Humanity using Misteln the Cecilia walking stigmata and Finality to the goddamn sleeping land with Stigmata, while their physical body merges intothe spiritual soup of Adam.


This is a literary metaphor for Autonomy, not reality warping.


This is a Red Herring and Whataboutism. "Because Genshin did it" is not an argument for Honkai. If the Genshin thread accepted flowery language as literal metaphysics, that's an issue with that specific CRT.


You want the second round? the next gallery debunk? I will go through every scan and gallery there, then discuss them here so that you wouldn't have any basis to call me cherry-picking.

??? Genshin and WuWa proves that it doesn't have to be metafictional, your entire argument hinges on the fact that you focused on the social stuff being "literal" whilst the Project Stigma that's the story of all stories (as in the one that contains all civilizations) as hyperbolical w/o any explanations given.

It doesn't matter if you go through every scan or not when there's cognitive bias aside, did you forget to mention that Project Stigma's main goal is to create a fake Herrscher of Finality or did you just happen to "forget" about that?

Look, I can't debate it if you're just going to consider the stuff that benefits your interpretation and you'd focus on them more, whilst using that to call the rest of the stuff to be hyperbolic, like you didn't even give a reason why + Honkai was never a hyperbolic verse to even begin with, it's not a verse where you have to interpret said scans to be hyperbolic or not. Like you're just discarding it, you didn't give an argument whatsoever that Narratives here construct civilizations (fiction), the same reality that actually grows and fought back against the Honkai (reality) even though these civilizations are just going to be "reset" by Finality anyway.

The entire human mind stuff was to prove that stories here dictate the human mind, they're closely linked since y'know, Project Stigma is just billions of consciousnesses together in which I explained that the human mind and the stories here doesn't differ from each other.

Story here is fundamental to Project Stigma, fundamental to Imaginary Space, HoT is able to affect Imaginary and Real Space simultaneously in which both are universal sized in the first place.

 

[Voidnether]

This is to what extent that Bronya's Plot Manipulation here is able to do, she's able to stop the Project Stigma from operating for an instant, these are like more than enough. Really, atleast if you want to overcomplicate it then that's your choice but honestly? I don't see why this isn't fundamental, every scan that you thought to be "hyperbolic" disproves what you said entirely with the social stuff, like they're histories, histories within story

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

you didn't give an argument whatsoever that Narratives here construct civilizations (fiction), the same reality that actually grows and fought back against the Honkai (reality) even though these civilizations are just going to be "reset" by Finality anyway.

Morality, money, language, customs, aesthetics, all narratives.

I'm ******* tired man

 

[Voidnether]

I'm ******* tired man

Funnily enough language here makes up the world in GGZ back on Kizuna Entry 5, really I don't get why you're focusing on that entirely by affirming all of these must be "fundamental" when you know I'm arguing the stories here to be fundamental through the 2 reasonings I gave

Genuinely I don't see why it must be overcomplicated that much when verses that has their Plot Manipulation rating isn't even this complicated to begin with in the first place, I'm also shocked that you'd cherrypick scans and focus on a specific part of the scan instead of addressing them entirely (and not discarding what actually proves them to be fundamental and reduce them to be "hyperbolical")

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Funnily enough language here makes up the world in GGZ back on Kizuna Entry 5, really I don't get why you're focusing on that entirely by affirming all of these must be "fundamental" when you know I'm arguing the stories here to be fundamental through the 2 reasonings I gave earlier

Language in this means linguistics culture you plebs. What makes you think this links to the Kizuna entry? Can you ******* prove it???

The definition of Narrative itself is already falling apart lmao.

The entire human mind stuff was to prove that stories here dictate the human mind, they're closely linked since y'know, Project Stigma is just billions of consciousnesses together in which I explained that the human mind and the stories here doesn't differ from each other.

Manipulating Human unconscious can lead this to plot manipulation because human mind = Stories, you know why Human minds contain stories?

It doesn't matter if you go through every scan or not when there's cognitive bias aside, did you forget to mention that Project Stigma's main goal is to create a fake Herrscher of Finality or did you just happen to "forget" about that?

No, I didn't forget. It's irrelevant to proving Plot manip.

Look, I can't debate it if you're just going to consider the stuff that benefits your interpretation and you'd focus on them more

It doesn't matter if you go through every scan or not when there's cognitive bias aside

Talking about "cognitive bias" while ignoring the damn literal definitions given in your own scans is the definition of irony.
I am not "interpreting" scans I am ******* reading it. Prometheus says: "Morality, money, language... all narratives."
You are the one adding an external "interpretation" by claiming these narratives grant Plot Manipulation hax, despite the character explicitly framing them as the components of Civilization and Human Perception.
If looking at the actual text is "bias," then you aren't looking for a debate, you're looking for a circle-jerk.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Anyway, I need rest.

 

[Rakih_Elyan]

Also, these are the scans of Project STIGMA on the blogs, I think they are translated from Chinese directly since the image only show Chinese language. Maybe Garrixian translated them before, I think they are still can be accepted since Garri translated this before the demotions. I would rather address these scans later, tired.

PROMETHEUS: Rather than explaining the underlying code of the Stigmata Project to you in a grammar book, it is more convenient to let them tell you by themselves.

PROMETHEUS: The bottom-level logic of the Stigmata Project is called "existence". This is the basis for the establishment of "fiction" and the origin of all abstract concepts.

PROMETHEUS: On top of "existence"... Forget it, it's not important to speak. In short, they express the two most important properties of "existence" -- "substance” and “change”.

PROMETHEUS: "Idea" is the core unit of the Stigmata Project. "Idea" gives people enlightenment, reflecting the outline called "truth".

PROMETHEUS: "Idea" will always fall into contradictions... However, it expresses its "existence" in this way and eliminates the boundary between "reality" and "fiction".

PROMETHEUS: Within Project Stigma, "life" is the most direct "truth", and "absolute" is the highest level of "truth".

PROMETHEUS: This Project sets the "absolute" of "life" within "fiction".

PROMETHEUS: In order for it to be emancipated from "individuality", become "the truth that transcends itself".

PROMETHEUS: ...The price of this "transcendence", even the most universal type of form is "death".

PROMETHEUS: Individual life itself is difficult to resist death, because it itself is a contradiction.

PROMETHEUS: Life can obtain universality through "fiction", but it itself exists only as "itself".

PROMETHEUS: Hence, as a consequence, to Project Stigma, an individuality's death is the evolution of the consciousness.

PROMETHEUS: After all, in its perspective -- "Civilization", is originally constructed through the skeletons and last testaments of generations of people.

 

[Shiroiyo]

Next level larping thread op. I disagree for reasons above.

Also very sus this was made a few hours after the WuWa one lmao

 

[Rutæhh]

disagree due to Rakih_Elyan reasons.

 

[Voidnether]

Also, these are the scans of Project STIGMA on the blogs, I think they are translated from Chinese directly since the image only show Chinese language. Maybe Garrixian translated them before, I think they are still can be accepted since Garri translated this before the demotions. I would rather address these scans later, tired.

Yeah so could you actually tell me what is there to address? There's legit nothing to address here, those statements were just Tier 11 stuff back in the Project Stigma thread which nowadays won't get you nowhere tbh

 

[Voidnether]

Next level larping thread op. I disagree for reasons above.

Also very sus this was made a few hours after the WuWa one lmao

I hope you know how hard you'd push for logic manip, this just won't be logic manip at all due to how strict the requirements were lol

 

[Voidnether]

Language in this means linguistics culture you plebs. What makes you think this links to the Kizuna entry? Can you ******* prove it???

The definition of Narrative itself is already falling apart lmao.

Manipulating Human unconscious can lead this to plot manipulation because human mind = Stories, you know why Human minds contain stories?

No, I didn't forget. It's irrelevant to proving Plot manip.



Talking about "cognitive bias" while ignoring the damn literal definitions given in your own scans is the definition of irony.
I am not "interpreting" scans I am ******* reading it. Prometheus says: "Morality, money, language... all narratives."
You are the one adding an external "interpretation" by claiming these narratives grant Plot Manipulation hax, despite the character explicitly framing them as the components of Civilization and Human Perception.
If looking at the actual text is "bias," then you aren't looking for a debate, you're looking for a circle-jerk.

Unconventional Resistance to CM1 in the blog being directly linked to GGZ here?
There's legit the full context of said Narrative in the blog that you managed to ignore and just cherrypick the first part when it's explained properly after, also my god the AI-slop in the end I could definitely tell those were obviously made by ChatGPT!! Come on, you know those are just the components of the civilizations other than the narratives and story, it was stated to be story and heck it's explained even further about what these are.. Like, this doesn't debunk it bro.

 

[BoastJr]

I agree with this CRT ! Honkai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Umineko clearly

 

[Voidnether]

I agree with this CRT ! Honkai >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Umineko clearly

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