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She returned in volume 19 or so... She evolved repeatedly after that, before returning...
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Veldanava Key Divisison - [TenSura LN]
- Thread starter Ciel_Trinity439
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EldemadeDityjon
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I know she evolved but why are you assuming he is considering evolved state. Can you get me statement for he is considering her evolved state since his word just mentioned she is his half other half which logically implies it's rather physiological stuff rather than he is talking about her durability due to evolved state.
Astral_Trinity439
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And he said it right after saying he can't use selection
So Ivarage wouldn't get any support from Velda, she'll have to survive it on her own, fully
Resistance to? Destruction?
That's the thing, Initialize Heaven is sheer destructive force, it's not some hax (like Void Collapse). Why? Becuase it's literally not shown as such, we have no reason to assume otherwise
How does it not make sense?
Veldnaava acknowledges Rimuru as not insignificant and decides that he needs to destroy everything instead of smoking only Rimuru, which would take more effort
And her surviving -> she has that dura -> veldnaava upscales from her
What Dark said
EldemadeDityjon
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Because others are just his creations? Not his own
Resistance to EE is a thing? lol
What you are trying to do is circuler scaling though.
2-A with Trump card ~ Veldanava Durability ~ Rimuru < 2-A attack from the Trump card which would smoke him?
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Astral_Trinity439
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Becuase he was fought her before he said that in the same volume
Must I quote the entire battle scene?
Being "other half" has nothing to do with physiology lol, it's about being comparable
Well, rn there's a thread ongoing (dead) to remove the God key and the "split" thing so I guess you could ignore the above if you want, it's not officially accepted yet
Still
The statement is about destroying all worlds
It explicitly says Ivarage will survive it even after experiencing it
And? It is the said Initialize Heaven destroys his creation. It says it destroys all worlds.
Sure those two things are related, but the word usage matters.
This isn't EE tho?
Since when did we assume destroying something = auto erasure lol
Uh, no, Rimuru is NOT comparable to his trump card, why are we assuming this?
Veldnaava is confident that it can destroy Rimuru even after fighting him on equal terms, there's no reason to assume Rimuru will tank this lol
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EldemadeDityjon
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EldemadeDityjon
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Will comment on this tomorrow maybe kind of busy right now
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Vol 23 said you need an equal or greater amount of energy to annihilate those with high energy levels, and I'm pretty sure we already have accepted that more energy equals more AP. So basically AP = dura.
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Yeah, also find it strangeAgree, seems fine. Also pre-apotheosis? really, that literally means before divinity
How do you like Pre/Post Descent? Technically an opposite process and "descend into the world" is used in the novel
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Agree, seems fine. Also pre-apotheosis? really, that literally means before divinity
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Quick question—what do you mean by “the same physiology”?
As far as I remember, ever since they were separated, they’ve been different individuals with their own egos. Veldanava is a True Dragon, and Ivalaje doesn’t have any connection to them. Or are you referring to some other aspect?
Astral_Trinity439
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Say that to our boi @Cipher72 kekAgree, seems fine. Also pre-apotheosis? really, that literally means before divinity
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It does have a different meaning as well,but I don’t think it fully fits
DrunkMan04
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It says ivarage would survive not that she wouldn't be affected
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Milk is fine
EldemadeDityjon
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I don’t remember questioning anything, lol. I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that I care about others hating me. It’s not unusual for dishonest people to hate me when they get exposed for their nonsense. If you have nothing productive to say regarding this, don’t reply. Even if you do reply with non productive stuff I'll ignore at this point.and you still questions why some people don't like you at all
EldemadeDityjon
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When I said physiology, I meant that he is the other half of Veldanava, so he should logically have some features similar to him. Not saying he had every abilities (that should be obvious I think you people don't read between words, different people have different ways of explaining stuff that's all)
It says that since she is the other half, rather than saying she is as strong as me or anything like that, it implies she would not be affected due to the technique itself not working on her, not because of durability.
That’s all fine, but in this case Veldanava can’t choose the target with that technique—he’s nuking all of creation.
Rimuru is equal to him at that point, and Iverage is on the same level. So why would only Iverage survive while Rimuru wouldn’t? If it were due to durability, Rimuru should logically survive as well, right?
Him fighting her has no relationship when he didn't say she is strong so she would survive rather she is my other half. Idk where you are getting it's talking about strength. Can you even get me single word in the line where it's implied to strength based rather than just ability not working on Iverage
This just supports my interpretation and keeps it simpler. If it were due to durability, Rimuru should have survived as well, since he scales to Veldanava. If three characters have the same level of power and only two survive while the other gets completely cooked, I don’t see how that can be based on durability alone.
Well, let me give you an example, since you seem to believe that characters can only resist EE, Void hax, or something similar.
If you read JJK, you can find the statement that Gojo survived with fewer injuries because his attack contained his own CE, whereas Sukuna was seriously injured and Mahoraga was completely destroyed. My point is that I don’t understand why you’re trying to argue based only on things that exist on VS Wiki. This could simply be verse-mechanics–specific stuff. This is just example. I can give one more but well I just wanted to point out in fiction it doesn't need everything to be based on vs wiki terms alone.
I’m not saying that, though. That’s your argument. I only gave the scaling chain to show that it ends up being circular scaling.
Trump card > Veldanava ~ Rimuru ~ Iverage
This works better as an explanation, or you’ll need some other justification. Don’t use Iverage’s survival statement as supporting evidence—it doesn’t make any sense in this context.
DrunkMan04
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The burden is on you brother
EldemadeDityjon
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It's the other way around since you people are claiming it's a Durability feat without providing any evidence.
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He isn't equal tho. Rimuru was causing troubles to Veldanava because of his skill which absorbed every spell and martial arts skills which gave a hard time to Veldanava. Especially in suspended world where each attack powered up by Nihility Collapse would end up bad if it hit directly. Veldanava at some point just thought "Screw it. I'll just destroy everything."
Astral_Trinity439
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Imma be busy at relatives' house today (on my way there rn) so I'm not sure if I can reply today
If someone else doesn't come, like @PrimeHydra64 or @Community_Gamer , I'll reply by either tonight or tomorrow
Have a good day y'all
And for once stop beefing with each other ༎ຶ‿༎ຶ
If someone else doesn't come, like @PrimeHydra64 or @Community_Gamer , I'll reply by either tonight or tomorrow
Have a good day y'all
EldemadeDityjon
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Take your time since I'm gonna busy too.
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I'll read the scans tomorrow because it's very late here and I have to go to sleep, but agree.
PrimeHydra64
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This looks pretty good
Sorry about being MIA for a few days, I was dealing with stuff irl
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Alright I will give my two cents on this;
Alright, so what Velda is using is a technique now as you already know in slime a technique is something that's more or less unique to you (others can obviously copy you) It's a combination of martial arts/sword skills infused with magic/skill so it's not just magic or a skill meaning that said technique is a combination of a hax and brute force so Ivarajaé still has to tank the brute force.
Velda can't choose who to bring
Now I get why this can be misleading or confusing and I get what you are arguing imo that's also a viable interpretation but because of the fact that it's a technique (something Unique to you) and because Velda and Ivarajaé despite being halves are still unique I doubt that Ivarajaé is surviving because of the unique traits shared inbetween them.
To clarify once again
- A technique is something that's unique to you and developed by you moreover it's a combination of hax and brute force.
- Ivarajaé and Velda split off and there's no proof that Ivarajaé can replicate this technique.
- The text suggests more along the lines of “He can survive it despite it affecting him” rather than “He is immune to it/He resists it”
This leads me to favour OP's interpretation more albeit I do see what you are suggesting.
Feel free to respond whenever you are free.
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Ivarage is a she BTW. Ivarage is the the ego left behind after creating the universe of Tensura. Specially the ego which longs to reunite with its other half and powers in order to become the All-In-One. Neither of them really are or even parts of the All-In-One, but it regardless they are considered two parts of a whole.
Yeah I agree that the logic presented would imply that Rimuru, Veldanava, and Ivarage would all survive if this simply a cosmological destruction attack.
However let's not contradict anything here. It's possible to scale Ivarage to Veldanava and say that she's not simply not affected by Initialize Heaven because of the above mentioned reason. This can still mean Initilaze Heaven is a destruction ability just one that excludes Veldanava and by extention Ivarage. There's not enough evidence to prove this is some hax. If it were you'd have to argue that Veldanava and Ivarage can resist erasure hax that can erase the entire cosmology but NOT Rimuru.
Whic make absolutely no sense considering Rimuru has Nihility Collapse which is the most potent destruction energy in verse and is clearly effective against both Veldanava and Ivarage.
TDLR: Initilaze Heaven is destruction hax but not necessarily erasure. Rimuru would potentially die but so would Veldanava and Ivarage expect they aren't affected. They still all scale to each other but no one scales to Initialize Heaven.
Agreed.
Sure but that does not necessarily mean this is the case. I agree that based on the present logic Rimuru would survive if this is just a normal attack. However it can simply be that Ivarage and Veldanava aren't affected by Initilaze Heaven because it's their own art and Ivarage is part of Veldanava.
More evidence is definitely needed for the conclusion to stick.
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If I wasn't the clear, when I say that Initialize Heaven is a destruction hax. The hax part in question is that it destroys everything in existence expect it's user which due to circumstances just so happens to include Ivarage. Not that it isn't a pure destructive measure because nothing implies otherwise and Veldanava explicitly can't use Nihility Collapse (for what reason...looking at Fuse).
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I have a question. Why does everyone here assume that Rimuru would die from 'Initialize Heaven'?
Just because Veldanava said so? Because I don't find that to be so convincing, considering that every villain throughout the whole series, including Veldanava, underestimated Rimuru. Veldanava thought multiple times, that there is nothing Rimuru could do or that he couldn't survive something or cut something and every time he got proven wrong. And Veldanava isn't even knowledgeable about Rimuru. He doesn't even know that Rimuru is a true dragon and therefore 'family'. So I'd just assume that Veldanava would be wrong in his assumption that 'Initialize Heaven' would kill Rimuru. We've seen Rimuru easily deal with an attack that was capable of destroying all worlds and we've also seen him push around and casually one shot Luvelge, who has trillions of ep.
So he can deal with Veldanava's attacks and defenses, easily deal with the fusion of Lucia, Ivarage and Veldanava, and absorb attacks that can destroy all worlds. So I don't see why 'Initialize Heaven' would be a threat to Rimuru, just because Veldanava said so.
And while it's true that Ivarage and Veldanava share the same 'origin' as being originally the same, that is so only connection or similarity they have/had. They're not even the same race anymore, with Veldanava being a true dragon and Ivarage being a chaos dragon. So I don't think their 'connection' would be the reason Ivarage can survive, rather than pure strength. And if we assume that all three can survive the attack, then there's no inconsistency anywhere. They'd all just scale to that (Luvelge and Rimuru scale to all worlds anyway).
Anyways that are my two cents on the matter.
Just because Veldanava said so? Because I don't find that to be so convincing, considering that every villain throughout the whole series, including Veldanava, underestimated Rimuru. Veldanava thought multiple times, that there is nothing Rimuru could do or that he couldn't survive something or cut something and every time he got proven wrong. And Veldanava isn't even knowledgeable about Rimuru. He doesn't even know that Rimuru is a true dragon and therefore 'family'. So I'd just assume that Veldanava would be wrong in his assumption that 'Initialize Heaven' would kill Rimuru. We've seen Rimuru easily deal with an attack that was capable of destroying all worlds and we've also seen him push around and casually one shot Luvelge, who has trillions of ep.
So he can deal with Veldanava's attacks and defenses, easily deal with the fusion of Lucia, Ivarage and Veldanava, and absorb attacks that can destroy all worlds. So I don't see why 'Initialize Heaven' would be a threat to Rimuru, just because Veldanava said so.
And while it's true that Ivarage and Veldanava share the same 'origin' as being originally the same, that is so only connection or similarity they have/had. They're not even the same race anymore, with Veldanava being a true dragon and Ivarage being a chaos dragon. So I don't think their 'connection' would be the reason Ivarage can survive, rather than pure strength. And if we assume that all three can survive the attack, then there's no inconsistency anywhere. They'd all just scale to that (Luvelge and Rimuru scale to all worlds anyway).
Anyways that are my two cents on the matter.
Astral_Trinity439
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My take is mainly based on how when Veldanava said he'd use initialize heaven, Ciel and Lucia said they couldn't get allow that.
And it shouldn't be able "environment damage" either, becuase as we saw Rimuru can nullify attacks by enveloping his opponent in void collapse, Ciel is well aware of that.
So there's a high merit in Veldanava's words
Well, true on that. But e don't know exactly how Rimuru would survive that. Just pure dura, or will he use Azathoth and absorb everything? The latter option is most likely since that's literally his iconic move in almost every battle...would that scale to AP (Azathoth absorption rate) or dura?
Meanwhile Ivarage can't do that so she's off to surviving that by sheer dura
So for the sake of using less assumptions, it'll be more fair (for now) to assume Rimuru can't at least physically tank IH unlike Ivarage
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I do not agree with this topic.
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Astral_Trinity439
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Can you add the reason why, Goat
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Alright ping the mods, close the thread, pack your bags everyone. The Goat has spoken.
Is that a threat ? Damm bro resorted to violence after realising he couldn't beat the Goat in a debate.
All jokes aside, what exactly do you disagree with here and why ?
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nah id win
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The reason?? No, no—the important thing is to put my name on the list of those who disagree. I will mention the reason someday, because today I am busy.Can you add the reason why, Goat
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