The Most Troublesome Buu: Buu scaling revision

[Random-Helper323]

I wasn't trying to sound aggressive here.

I'll choose to believe you. Truth be told you've been coming across quite aggressive. I'd appreciate it if you could calm down a bit.

And those aren't all the evidence but they are pretty major.
It more so has to do with what 'Evil' entails and how it affects Majin Buu's power. Evil is directly attributed to power as well as 'Heart'.
Since Kid Buu has the least amount of Heart, it skyrocketed his power when all the absorptions with Heart were removed. That's directly why he's called the most troublesome. They can hand in hand with each other. So Kid Buu being the strongest is not only backed up by the author multiple times, but we have an in universe explanation as to why. It seems your problem here would be the scaling chain which I also did go over. I'd recommend looking at Infinite's post as well.

The issue is we don't know how that reduction compares to the boosts granted through absorption. If you reduce power then increase it, the respective amounts decide whether it ends up bigger or smaller. I also have to say some of those statements are a bit arbitrary.

Overall, I think I have to say I lean neutral since it's been so long since I read the manga. I usually refuse to vote on threads about internal scaling if I can't speak for it with certainty. The fact Goku and Gohan each fight entirely different Buu variants with no overlap makes measurement very hard.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I've been asked to respond in Tilted's place until he can finish something IRL.

The issue is we don't know how that reduction compares to the boosts granted through absorption. If you reduce power then increase it, the respective amounts decide whether it ends up bigger or smaller. I also have to say some of those statements are a bit arbitrary.

We do have a reasonable point of comparison. Kibito Kai states that the absorption of a heart reduced Buu's power. And his fear is over that heart being lost with all of his absorbed victims being released. This is while we still have Super Buu as an issue. Nowhere is it implied that Kid Buu became weaker than Super Buu, beyond Vegeta's initial mockery of him which is instantly subverted by a glimpse of Kid Buu's power terrifying him. The implication is that Super Buu lost his heart, having a heart made him weaker. Ergo Kid Buu > Super Buu.

Notably Qawsed did offer a reasonable pair of options. One being the 'Kid Buu agenda' which scales him above Buuhan and the other being the 'Buuhan agenda' which would place Goku and Kid Buu below Buutenks but above Super Buu. A similar territory of power as Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks.

Given your concerns with the scaling, it sounds like going with the 'Buuhan agenda' proposal could work for you.

 

[Random-Helper323]

We do have a reasonable point of comparison. Kibito Kai states that the absorption of a heart reduced Buu's power. And his fear is over that heart being lost with all of his absorbed victims being released. This is while we still have Super Buu as an issue. Nowhere is it implied that Kid Buu became weaker than Super Buu, beyond Vegeta's initial mockery of him which is instantly subverted by a glimpse of Kid Buu's power terrifying him. The implication is that Super Buu lost his heart, having a heart made him weaker. Ergo Kid Buu > Super Buu.

I was only referring to Buutenks and Buuhan, not Super Buu. There's plenty to tell us Kid Buu is above Super Buu.

Notably Qawsed did offer a reasonable pair of options. One being the 'Kid Buu agenda' which scales him above Buuhan and the other being the 'Buuhan agenda' which would place Goku and Kid Buu below Buutenks but above Super Buu. A similar territory of power as Ultimate Gohan and SS3 Gotenks.

I thought those were the only two options.

Given your concerns with the scaling, it sounds like going with the 'Buuhan agenda' proposal could work for you.

I do lean more towards that, but as I said I have to vote neutral for honesty's sake.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I was only referring to Buutenks and Buuhan, not Super Buu. There's plenty to tell us Kid Buu is above Super Buu.

I thought those were the only two options.

I do lean more towards that, but as I said I have to vote neutral for honesty's sake.

So you think Kid Buu is above Super Buu, or at least there is plenty to suggest it and that you lean towards it but you also believe you should vote neutral for 'honesty's sake'?

Can you elaborate on that point for me, please? I haven't kept track of your discussion with Tilted and I'm not really grasping why you would vote neutral when you yourself state you lean to Kid Buu > Super Buu.

 

[KingTempest]

Because the OP is scaling Kid Buu above Buuhan.
He's fine with scaling him above Super Buu.
He's not fine with scaling him above Buuhan.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Because the OP is scaling Kid Buu above Buuhan.
He's fine with scaling him above Super Buu.
He's not fine with scaling him above Buuhan.

And I am asking if he would agree with Qawsed's proposal. Because alternative proposals can be made as the thread continues. I am asking him if he would agree with Qawsed's 'Buuhan Agenda' proposal as a 'compromise'.

 

[TiltedFN]

The issue is we don't know how that reduction compares to the boosts granted through absorption.

Well we sort of do actually. Based on how Kid Buu is the most difficult one to deal with thus far, and his evil being directly attributed to his power, that would also include Kid Buu.

If you reduce power then increase it, the respective amounts decide whether it ends up bigger or smaller. I also have to say some of those statements are a bit arbitrary.

I get what you're saying here. And it is a valid concern indeed. But based on what we know about how Heart works, and the threat level Buu is said to be, it would mean that he's just the strongest Buu so far. All the other Buu variants are actually still restricted by that Heart, so the amount Buu got from absorptions due to a suppressed Heart would be less than the original version. And I do advise checking out those Toriyama statements. It would be direct confirmation that Kid Buu would be the strongest because of this.

Overall, I think I have to say I lean neutral since it's been so long since I read the manga. I usually refuse to vote on threads about internal scaling if I can't speak for it with certainty. The fact Goku and Gohan each fight entirely different Buu variants with no overlap makes measurement very hard.

Well like Cryo mentioned, since you do believe in Kid Buu>Super Buu at the very least, the 'Buuhan Agenda' would seem like the best option for you in my view. I still don't know what you mean by 'For honesty's sake' but to me it seems like that would most align with your view if what I mentioned still isn't enough.

 

[Omegabronic]

Yeah

This interview is not a good source when Akira himself straight up says he's not a good source for what happened in the manga as he legit forgot much about it... his words, not mine

Also about Kid Buu Scalling... let's go back to when Innocent Buu separated Evil Buu(which would be weaker than Super Buu as he absorbed Innocent to become Super)


As we can all see... Evil Buu easily beat up Innocent Buu, like, as the narrator said, Innocent had NO CHANCE at all, couldn't fight back, or land any hit on him, while Evil Buu just kept hitting him over and over

Meanwhile, when this same Innocent Buu fought Kid Buu


He can keep up with him, and can even harm him, of course, he's not as strong, but point is he still strong ENOUGH to do something against Kid Buu, and only got at a big disadvantage when his power started to drop/get lower as the fight went on

Now, considering how massively big the gap between Evil Buu to Buuhan should be, considering that Ultimate Gohan was dominating Super Buu while Buutenks stomped him, and then Buuhan is even stronger, if Kid Buu was actually that MASSIVELY stronger than Innocent Buu he would have EASILY swatted him away, blitz him, tank his attacks, etc, aka an even better advantage than Evil Buu had against Innocent Buu... but he didn't, Kid Buu was tagged by Innocent Buu at multiple points, he got hurt by Innocent Buu at multiple points

So if Kid Buu is actually the strongest Buu... why is he even slightly "struggling" with the factually Weakest Buu?

 

[TiltedFN]

This interview is not a good source when Akira himself straight up says he's not a good source for what happened in the manga as he legit forgot much about it... his words, not mine

Everyone knows Toriyama can be forgetful. That doesn't mean we just disregard any and all statements from him. That doesn't even make any sense.
Can you prove he would be forgetful on the statements we were using? It doesn't mean we just don't use the interviews that have him answering the question with certainty. And we have multiple of these statements that have him admitting Buu is the strongest. It remains something consistent so this legit doesn't mean anything.
This statement also is in reference to Buu. And obviously the one in the interview.

He can keep up with him, and can even harm him, of course, he's not as strong, but point is he still strong ENOUGH to do something against Kid Buu, and only got at a big disadvantage when his power started to drop/get lower as the fight went on

Now, considering how massively big the gap between Evil Buu to Buuhan should be, considering that Ultimate Gohan was dominating Super Buu while Buutenks stomped him, and then Buuhan is even stronger, if Kid Buu was actually that MASSIVELY stronger than Innocent Buu he would have EASILY swatted him away, blitz him, tank his attacks, etc, aka an even better advantage than Evil Buu had against Innocent Buu... but he didn't, Kid Buu was tagged by Innocent Buu at multiple points, he got hurt by Innocent Buu at multiple points

So if Kid Buu is actually the strongest Buu... why is he even slightly "struggling" with the factually Weakest Buu?

Maybe because Kid Buu is literally holding back and playing around? We see this multiple times on panel. Innocent Buu straight up says he can't win and we have Kid Buu mocking him. We know Kid Buu could have killed him at literally any moment. Evil Buu was 100 percent trying harder.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

snip

Are we really arguing Evil Buu > Kid Buu now? Incredible.

Anyway, let's just remove any doubt here now. Kid Buu completely decimates Innocent Buu with Mr. Satan taking a hit from Kid Buu. Innocent Buu lands exactly two attacks the entire fight with Innocent Buu then concluding he can't win. So your entire basis for Innocent Buu being closer to Kid Buu in strength than he was to Evil Buu is based purely on Innocent Buu landing one physical attack and one ki blast. Which means utterly nothing when characters like SS2 Vegeta have blown apart Kid Buu or Base Goku sliced Buutenks in half.

So how can Innocent Buu tackle Kid Buu and land a blast on him? The same reason SS2 Vegeta can land hits on Kid Buu and blast him apart. Kid Buu is consistently stated to screw around with his opponents. Which is reinforced by how he tortures Innocent Buu, while laughing maniacally, and only goes to kill him after he's been beaten into a worthless pulp. Hell, Kid Buu even moves slow enough that Mr. Satan can see his impending death. Purely for sadistic pleasure.

So no. Unless you want to argue Mr. Satan scales to Kid Buu your entire argument is nonsense. How would Evil Buu > Kid Buu even remotely work when it is, again, stated Kid Buu grew stronger from losing a heart? And when Evil Buu is stated to only have most of Buu's power, not all of it? That's the entire reason Evil Buu absorbs Innocent Buu in the first place.

Not even going to touch you adding to the dismissal of Toriyama's authority. Completely pointless.

 

[Mbpoops]

we might as well be saying hercule = kid buu because he took a bunch from him and dodged his attacks

 

[Robo432343]

Dragon Ball Chōzenshū 2 straight up says the Buu that absorbed Gohan is the strongest Buu
yeah keep glazing the guidebooks guys

 

[Mbpoops]

Dragon Ball Chōzenshū 2 straight up says the Buu that absorbed Gohan is the strongest Buu
yeah keep glazing the guidebooks guys

I cant read japanese bro

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Dragon Ball Chōzenshū 2 straight up says the Buu that absorbed Gohan is the strongest Buu
yeah keep glazing the guidebooks guys

It doesn't really say what you think. Also you didn't even tried to provide a translation.

for once you took it blindy from this blog: https://capsulecommentary.com/2025/02/21/kid-buu-vs-buuhan/

A blog that put Kid Buu above Buhan. So it doesn't really help taking it out of context.

Also, the scan you posted narrate events up to Vegito. Too bad you avoided to post the rest and failed to understand that Kid Buu wasn't even a born at that point.

I feel that most people who only want to comment with a single scan or a single line should just refrain from doing so. This is a difficult and broad topic, and the OP analyzes dozens and dozens of chapters.

People should either address the OP as a whole or respond to entire arguments in the comments. Posting just a single line or scan is largely irrelevant.

 

[Robo432343]

It doesn't really say what you think. Also you didn't even tried to provide a translation.

for once you took it blindy from this blog: https://capsulecommentary.com/2025/02/21/kid-buu-vs-buuhan/

A blog that put Kid Buu above Buhan. So it doesn't really help taking it out of context.

Also, the scan you posted narrate events up to Vegito. Too bad you avoided to post the rest and failed to understand that Kid Buu wasn't even a born at that point.

That's proving more and more that the guidebooks are unreliable
There are guidebook statements that say Buuhan is the strongest and there are guidebook statement that talk about Kid Buu being the strongest. Actually none of the guidebook scans you showed explicitly refer to Kid Buu anyway, they just talk about Majin Buu as a whole.

 

[Omegabronic]

Everyone knows Toriyama can be forgetful. That doesn't mean we just disregard any and all statements from him. That doesn't even make any sense.

Putting words in my mouth much? Never said this, don't do this again

Also "forgetful" is a soft way of saying it... he straight up says he's "forgotten A LOT" about the Manga he's drawn... so it puts most of what he says about it in question given his admission of not remembering it very well

Can you prove he would be forgetful on the statements we were using? It doesn't mean we just don't use the interviews that have him answering the question with certainty.

It does mean that his word outside what is actually in the manga has far, FAR less value than said manga, as, per his own words, most of the time he doesn't even remember what happened in it

And we have multiple of these statements that have him admitting Buu is the strongest. It remains something consistent so this legit doesn't mean anything.
This statement also is in reference to Buu. And obviously the one in the interview.

You can shown however many statements you want, both from and not from Akira... doesn't matter if the source material itself shows otherwise, specially with Akira himself saying that his answers are not that reliable given his bad memory of the manga

The work itself has more authority than any outside source about it, if it shows Akira being wrong about it... then he's wrong about it, if it shows him right about it, then he's right about it

It really is a simple concept

Maybe because Kid Buu is literally holding back and playing around? We see this multiple times on panel.

Neither of those shows him holding back or playing arround against Innocent Buu

The first one is against Mr.Satan, so it is irrelevant to the point at hand, that being his fight with Innocent Buu, not Mr.Satan

The second one is him simply doing a creative attack... nothing more, legit don't know why you are even showing it

Innocent Buu straight up says he can't win and we have Kid Buu mocking him.

Again, don't put words in my mouth, i never said he could win... that literally doesn't matter to him factually being able to harm him and tag him multiple times

As for Kid Buu mocking him... yeah, it's Kid Buu, that's his personality, Fat Buu was still weaker after all, even if he could damage and tag him... he's still weaker and would lose

again, none of the scans you brought up address my points properly... they literally change nothing about it, at all

We know Kid Buu could have killed him at literally any moment. Evil Buu was 100 percent trying harder.

What's with you and showing scans that just... don't say what you are affirming? When in this scan it is said that he could have killed him "at literally any moment"? This scan LITERALLY never says that at all

As i showed earlier, Innocent Buu's power was dropping as the fight went on, this panel is showing the END of the fight, aka, when Innocent Buu spent all his power and literally couldn't fight anymore, all that this proves is that Innocent Buu was indeed weaker and couldn't keep fighting Kid Buu forever, he just lost the fight, had his power extinguished by said fight, and as such was too weak for Kid Buu not to be able to kill him

You didn't proved my point wrong... you didn't brought anything new to the table i had already not said in my reply earlier

 

[Infinite9Luck]

As we can all see... Evil Buu easily beat up Innocent Buu, like, as the narrator said, Innocent had NO CHANCE at all, couldn't fight back, or land any hit on him, while Evil Buu just kept hitting him over and over

Meanwhile, when this same Innocent Buu fought Kid Buu


He can keep up with him, and can even harm him, of course, he's not as strong, but point is he still strong ENOUGH to do something against Kid Buu, and only got at a big disadvantage when his power started to drop/get lower as the fight went on

Now, considering how massively big the gap between Evil Buu to Buuhan should be, considering that Ultimate Gohan was dominating Super Buu while Buutenks stomped him, and then Buuhan is even stronger, if Kid Buu was actually that MASSIVELY stronger than Innocent Buu he would have EASILY swatted him away, blitz him, tank his attacks, etc, aka an even better advantage than Evil Buu had against Innocent Buu... but he didn't, Kid Buu was tagged by Innocent Buu at multiple points, he got hurt by Innocent Buu at multiple points

So if Kid Buu is actually the strongest Buu... why is he even slightly "struggling" with the factually Weakest Buu?

This is just wrong. Why are we even wasting time with this?

It is explicitly stated that Grey Buu is only a “portion” of Fat Buu’s power, so Fat Buu is stronger than Grey Buu. Since only majority of power went to the Grey one. Fat Buu > Grey.

What you are arguing is that, based on this, the conclusion should be: “There is no way Kid Buu can be that strong.”

But not only is Goku far above Fat Buu, Kid Buu is also above Goku.

So what is happening here is simply that characters like Kid Buu enjoy playing around and letting themselves get hit just for the sake of the fight.

Kid Buu is objectively stronger than Grey Buu, and by a massive margin.

It is also funny that you clearly avoided using his best showing, for example, him holding back the Universal Spirit Bomb, which is stated to be the strongest last hope of the universe. A much weaker Goku was still able to launch a Spirit Bomb at Frieza, and Frieza could not even hope to block it. Kid Buu did.
Goku then needed a 50x boost just to surpass Kid Buu with a Super Spirit Bomb that was the strongest attack and last hope, being above > Gohan.

 

[Mbpoops]

It is explicitly stated that Grey Buu is only a “portion” of Fat Buu’s power, so Fat Buu is stronger than Grey Buu. Since only majority of power went to the Grey one. Fat Buu > Grey.

Was there a typo here this part is confusing me. Though i mostly agree with the holding back and toying around sentiment with buu its consistsnt with his character (fat buu vs gotenks, majin vegeta, super buu vs gotenks, buutenks vs gohan, kid buu vs everyone)

 

[CryoTheMayo]

Was there a typo here this part is confusing me. Though i mostly agree with the holding back and toying around sentiment with buu its consistsnt with his character (fat buu vs gotenks, majin vegeta, super buu vs gotenks, buutenks vs gohan, kid buu vs everyone)

What he's saying is:

Kid Buu > Fat Buu > Grey Buu > Innocent Buu​

So Omega's claims don't hold up under scrutiny.

 

[Mbpoops]

What he's saying is:

Kid Buu > Fat Buu > Grey Buu > Innocent Buu

So Omega's claims don't hold up under scrutiny.

my bad rhen i was mixing up fat buu and innocent buu

 

[Omegabronic]

Are we really arguing Evil Buu > Kid Buu now? Incredible.

Never said that... stop putting words in my mouth? I am measuring Innocent Buu's power as bellow Super Buu, as thus Kid Buu also bellow Super Buu, i am not affirming any scalling for Evil Buu

Anyway, let's just remove any doubt here now. Kid Buu completely decimates Innocent Buu with Mr. Satan taking a hit from Kid Buu.
Innocent Buu lands exactly two attacks the entire fight with Innocent Buu then concluding he can't win. So your entire basis for Innocent Buu being closer to Kid Buu in strength than he was to Evil Buu is based purely on Innocent Buu landing one physical attack and one ki blast. Which means utterly nothing when characters like SS2 Vegeta have blown apart Kid Buu or Base Goku sliced Buutenks in half.

Yeah, as i showed earlier, Innocent Buu's power kep dropping during the fight, so of course Kid Buu started overpowering him far easier as it went on, as he was getting weaker

As for the two other characters harming Kid Buu... yeah, Vegeta can harm him... so what? Being able to harm Buu =/= being as strong as he is, I don't know what the problem would be, specially when he is using Ki attacks, which as we note in the profile

Varies, up to far higher with charged attacks

So, yeah, his Ki attacks can be much superior to his normal level of power, if you really wanna go there

as for Goku?... well, first of all, there is a thread giving Kienzan Durability Neg right now, would wait for that to conclude, but also the Kienzan is far superior to Goku's regular power, as noted by Krillin's profile

Varies, up to far higher with Kamehameha, even higher with Destructo Disc

The Kienzan is stronger than even the Kamehameha, which can already decimate people FAR stronger than the user, so yeah, his very strong attack could harm someone far stronger than himself, cool feat to add later on on Goku's profile

So yeah, Innocent Buu was able to harm and tag Kid Buu, being weaker than Kid Buu doesn't change that

So how can Innocent Buu tackle Kid Buu and land a blast on him? The same reason SS2 Vegeta can land hits on Kid Buu and blast him apart. Kid Buu is consistently stated to screw around with his opponents. Which is reinforced by how he tortures Innocent Buu, while laughing maniacally, and only goes to kill him after he's been beaten into a worthless pulp.

Not really, when he sees Innocent Buu he get's vissually disturbed, if not scared, and then attacks Innocent Buu while visible furious, the only moment he starts "playing arround"/when he relaxes, is when he sees that Innocent Buu is weaker than him, before that he was clearly far more serious than in the scenes you showed

Hell, Kid Buu even moves slow enough that Mr. Satan can see his impending death. Purely for sadistic pleasure.

No, he was slow like that cuz Innocent Buu was holding him back, you are completely wrong here

So no. Unless you want to argue Mr. Satan scales to Kid Buu your entire argument is nonsense.

No it isn't, him playing with Mr.Satan really has no bearing on what i showed whatsoever, so it really doesn't matter

How would Evil Buu > Kid Buu even remotely work when it is, again, stated Kid Buu grew stronger from losing a heart?

This was addressed by other people earlier, but hum... you do know that Evil Buu is just... Innocent Buu's anger/evil side going out, right? What "heart" would Evil Buu have? And clearly gaining one doesn't make him weaker all times, else why would absorbing Innocent Buu make Evil Buu far stronger as Super Buu? Aka, gaining a "heart" once again

Heck, he didn't got any weaker from absorbing Gohan and Goten, both of which are definitelly pure of heart given they can ride the Flying Nimbus

And when Evil Buu is stated to only have most of Buu's power, not all of it? That's the entire reason Evil Buu absorbs Innocent Buu in the first place.

And then he grows EVEN STRONGER than before the split as evil Buu... even tho you are saying the heart weakens him, aka, he should at most be equal to before... but it is stated he's even stronger

Not even going to touch you adding to the dismissal of Toriyama's authority. Completely pointless.

You kind of have too address that point, as it is, in fact, not pointless, but completely valid to make given it is Akira's own words on how unreliable his answers can be

 

[Omegabronic]

This is just wrong. Why are we even wasting time with this?

Don't be rude, not cool man

It is explicitly stated that Grey Buu is only a “portion” of Fat Buu’s power, so Fat Buu is stronger than Grey Buu. Since only majority of power went to the Grey one. Fat Buu > Grey.

Before the split sure... we are talking about Innocent Buu AFTER the split however

What you are arguing is that, based on this, the conclusion should be: “There is no way Kid Buu can be that strong.”

But not only is Goku far above Fat Buu, Kid Buu is also above Goku.

Goku says he could have beaten him... that's it, no comparison if it would be easy or not for him, only that "he could have"... where are you getting "far above" from?

So what is happening here is simply that characters like Kid Buu enjoy playing around and letting themselves get hit just for the sake of the fight.

Kid Buu is objectively stronger than Grey Buu, and by a massive margin.

It is also funny that you clearly avoided using his best showing, for example, him holding back the Universal Spirit Bomb, which is stated to be the strongest last hope of the universe. A much weaker Goku was still able to launch a Spirit Bomb at Frieza, and Frieza could not even hope to block it. Kid Buu did.
Goku then needed a 50x boost just to surpass Kid Buu with a Super Spirit Bomb that was the strongest attack and last hope, being above > Gohan.

All of this was address earlier in the thread when you made the same arguments... so i won't address it... again

 

[CryoTheMayo]

snip

If I'm not understanding your argument then I want you to neatly summarise your claim right here and right now. What, precisely, are you trying to argue?

 

[Omegabronic]

If I'm not understanding your argument then I want you to neatly summarise your claim right here and right now. What, precisely, are you trying to argue?

I legit don't know how i could make it clearer... I wrote it concisely enough, maybe try reading it again slowly? idk

 

[CryoTheMayo]

I legit don't know how i could make it clearer... I wrote it concisely enough, maybe try reading it again slowly? idk

No. Summarise it in one post right here right now. What is your point? What are you getting at? So there are no more 'misunderstandings'.

 

[Omegabronic]

No. Summarise it in one post right here right now. What is your point? What are you getting at? So there are no more 'misunderstandings'.

... wdym "no"? You can't give me an ultimatum lol

I simply see no need to summarize further what i already wrotte clearly in my first message, that's all... also why put "misunderstandings" in quotes as if you are quoting something? weird

 

[Damage3245]

I think both sides of the discussion above should chill out a bit. It's not being very productive.

 

[CryoTheMayo]

... wdym "no"? You can't give me an ultimatum lol

I simply see no need to summarize further what i already wrotte clearly in my first message, that's all... also why put "misunderstandings" in quotes as if you are quoting something? weird

Okay. Then I have to assume you don't even have a point you're getting at. You're just trying to clog the thread up.

I think both sides of the discussion above should chill out a bit. It's not being very productive.

I'm done posting. I'm fine waiting for Random to clarify if he agrees with Qawsed's proposal (Buuhan > Kid Buu > Super Buu) and waiting for additional staff input to settle this. There isn't much more for people to really add to the discussion.

 

[Infinite9Luck]

Before the split sure... we are talking about Innocent Buu AFTER the split however


Goku says he could have beaten him... that's it, no comparison if it would be easy or not for him, only that "he could have"... where are you getting "far above" from?


All of this was address earlier in the thread when you made the same arguments... so i won't address it... again

I do not really think you understood what I wrote.

Let me explain it simply:

The manga explicitly states that Grey Buu is weaker than Fat Buu.

Goku is stronger than Fat Buu.

Kid Buu is stronger than Goku.

So Kid Buu cannot be weaker than Grey Buu.

Therefore, those feats against Good Buu simply show that Kid Buu was not being serious and was holding back. Using the way Grey Buu fought Good Buu as evidence is just wrong, since I already proved that Kid Buu is far stronger than Grey Buu.

Kid Buu is simply having fun, holding back, and enjoying getting hit during a fight. Nothing you posted proves that he is “weak.”

 

[KingTempest]

I’m confused on why kid Buu being the strongest is allowed from databooks but ssj3 Goku equal to fat Buu is ignored

 

[Random-Helper323]

I And I do advise checking out those Toriyama statements. It would be direct confirmation that Kid Buu would be the strongest because of this.

The OP and thread are long. Can I ask you to post those statements here together? Those do seem to be the crux of this.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I’m confused on why kid Buu being the strongest is allowed from databooks but ssj3 Goku equal to fat Buu is ignored

Aren't they arguing Goku got stronger throughout the Buu Saga or something?

 

[Omegabronic]

Okay. Then I have to assume you don't even have a point you're getting at. You're just trying to clog the thread up.

I Do have a point, i made said point very clear in my first message... you just don't seem to get it when others did, and that's ok

Also my last message to you

 

[KingTempest]

Aren't they arguing Goku got stronger throughout the Buu Saga or something?

Yeah but like, they’re acting like early saga Goku was easily whooping him

 

[Random-Helper323]

@Omegabronic @CryoTheMayo I'm gonna have to ask both of you to lower the temperature a bit, okay?

 

[Mbpoops]

Yeah but like, they’re acting like early saga Goku was easily whooping him

He was tho what

 

[Infinite9Luck]

The OP and thread are long. Can I ask you to post those statements here together? Those do seem to be the crux of this.

The Most Troublesome Buu: Buu scaling revision

i agree with op

vsbattles.com

You can read this.

 

[Omegabronic]

I do not really think you understood what I wrote.

Let me explain it simply:

The manga explicitly states that Grey Buu is weaker than Fat Buu.

Goku is stronger than Fat Buu.

No, Goku could have beaten Innocent Buu, it isn't said if he was actually stronger than him or not, one doesn't need the other to be true

Kid Buu is stronger than Goku.

I would argue otherwise, Goku was able to harm and keep up with him during the fight, and only lost cuz SSJ3 drained his Ki

Altho this was also address earlier on by other users iirc, so feel free to ignore it ig

Therefore, those feats against Good Buu simply show that Kid Buu was not being serious and was holding back. Using the way Grey Buu fought Good Buu as evidence is just wrong, since I already proved that Kid Buu is far stronger than Grey Buu.

Kid Buu is simply having fun, holding back, and enjoying getting hit during a fight. Nothing you posted proves that he is “weak.”

you didn't really proved that Kid Buu is "far stronger" than Evil Buu, and looking at the panels is showed earlier... Kid Buu is visiblu shooken, and angry, with Innocent Buu at first... he wasn't playing with him innitially at least

 

[EmilioRory10]

maybe a stupid question but I've been wondering this for a few days after first reading the OP, would Goku>Gohan mean one (or more) of these is true?
1- Goku was massively holding back as SSJ2 against Majin Vegeta, and is far superior even while both are in the same form
2- Goku got a huge power boost at some point after fighting Vegeta
3- Goku's SSJ3 has a much higher multiplier to base than Gotenks's, or he can at least power up to that
4- Gotenks only surpasses Majin Vegeta because he has SSJ3, and is not stronger in the same form

I'm guessing it's probably 2 or 3 (with 4 being impossible/ridiculous/contradictory), but I just want to know and those are the only ways I could make sense of Goku's higher end scaling in my head

 

[Infinite9Luck]

No, Goku could have beaten Innocent Buu, it isn't said if he was actually stronger than him or not, one doesn't need the other to be true

?... What? If he can beat him, he's stronger at this point you are arguing non-sense, and that is not innocent Buu, Goku fought Fat Buu.

I would argue otherwise, Goku was able to harm and keep up with him during the fight, and only lost cuz SSJ3 drained his Ki

You can argue that, but it is wrong.

Altho this was also address earlier on by other users iirc, so feel free to ignore it ig

That's a concession

you didn't really proved that Kid Buu is "far stronger" than Evil Buu, and looking at the panels is showed earlier... Kid Buu is visiblu shooken, and angry, with Innocent Buu at first... he wasn't playing with him innitially at least

I did, saying "you didn't" really doesn't counter established lore and dialogues.