Punch Out!!! - Revisions and some upgrades

[LandonTheGuy]

Calculations

Spoiler: Attack potency

• Mr.Sandman cracks a wall revision - 827 KJ (Wall level)
• Great Tiger KE - 0.0032457454 Tons of tnt (Wall level+)

Spoiler: Speed

• Great Tiger speed NESS - 190 m/s (Subsonic+)
• Great Tiger's speed - 672.81 m/s (supersonic)

Spoiler: Lifting Strenght

• Bald Bull lifts weights - 645.25 Kg (Class 1)
• Soda pulls a truck - 5.31 Tons (Class 5)

Spoiler: Abilities addition

Little Mac:

1. Preparation (traines himself before each circuit enhancing his physical capabilities)
2. Enhanced Senses (capable of perciving small details that tells him when an opponent trows a punch: like how he does with great tiger's clones)
3. Information Analysis (he does get the fighting style/abilities of his opponents rather easly)
4. Afterimages creation (creates afterimages when dodging)
5. Social influencing (As a famous boxer, he is well-known, attracting the attention of both fans and business deals.)
6. Healing (recovery) (Can regain health after his opponent is out)

Glass Joe:

1. Possibly Superhuman Willpower (altho this one has lost 100+ matches, he still choses to fight mac both in title defense mode and in last stand more than once)

Bear hugger:

1. Limited animal manipulation (trains with a bear in a daily basis and has conversation with him)
2. Social influencing (animal charming)

Great tiger:

1. 4th wall breaking (winks at the camera when he wins)

Don Flamenco:

1. Rage power (when lost his tupe, he becomes stronger and faster)
2. 4th wall breaking (Talks directly to the player)
3. Acrobatics (can do jump between platforms at what seems great speed)
4. Social influencing (as a famus boxer he has build a wide fanbase around him that loves him)

Super Macho Man:

1. Social influencing (as a famus boxer he has build a wide fanbase around him that loves him)

Mr.Sandman:

1. Rage Power (Becomame stronger for the title defense mode by getting mad)

ALL BOXERS SHOULD HAVE PREPARATION AS IN THE TITLE DEFENSE MODE HAVE TIME TO PREPARE OR TRAIN FOR GOING AGAINST LITTLE MAC

New scaling

Spoiler: NES scaling

Everyone always scale to the super macho spin attack (25807.17 J) but also to the tiger punch (190 m/s).

Spoiler: Wii scaling - Contender mode

Everyone scales to the bull punching feat of Don flamenco (114110 J) and 34.3 m/s on speed as Don flamenco can leave afterimages when punching and Mac does also when dodging.

Lifting strenght wise, the all scale to the feat of Bald bull of lifting weights (645.25 kg) exept Mac as his fighting style is based on defence and he usually doesn't grapple anyone.

Everyone above Don Flamenco and Bald Bull should get "At least" near the value as they upscale it

Spoiler: Wii scaling - Title defense

Everyone scales to the tiger punch (0.00324 tons of tnt) and 672,81 m/s on speed from the same feat.

Lifting strenght wise, the all scale to the feat of Soda of pulling a truck (5.31 tons) exept Mac.

Everyone above Great tiger and Soda should get "At least" near the value as they upscale it

Spoiler: Wii scaling - Last stand mode (only mac and kong)

Mac upscales to the tiger punch (0.00324 tons of tnt) and 672,81 m/s on speed from the same feat as in contender mode fights all of his previusly opponents at once multiple times until he gets knocked down 3 times.

Lifting strenght wise, the kong scales to the feat of Soda of pulling a truck (5.31 tons).

AGREE @Rex_Eckles @Sparkive @IDK3465 @Greg_the_master_of_gods (desagrees with 4th wall breaking) @Ninkan12 @ActuallySpaceMan42 (desagrees with Possibly Superhuman Willpower and Information Analysis )

DISAGREE

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Agree.

 

[Sparkive]

speaking only of the abilities

Little Mac:

1. Preparation (he does train with before each circuit)
2. Accelerated development
3. Enhanced Senses (capable of perciving small details that tells him when an opponent trows a punch)
4. Information Analysis (he does get the fighting style/abilities of his opponents rather easly)
5. Afterimages creation (creates afterimages when dodging)
6. Social influencing (as a famus boxer he has build a wide fanbase)

1. I don't think training counts as preparation.
2. What's the explanation for Accelerated Development?
3. Enhanced Senses is fine, but it would be better if it were linked to something, the same goes for 4.
5. It's leaving something out; it's not clear if it's an afterimage, but I assume it is, so I think is fine... I guess.
6. I think you should elaborate more on the explanation. Looking at the link, I can understand it, but if you only read the justification, it doesn't tell you anything.
Something like this maybe?:

Social influencing (As a famous boxer, he is well-known, attracting the attention of both fans and business deals.)

Glass Joe:

1. Possibly Superhuman Willpower (altho this one has lost 100+ matches, he still choses to fight mac both in title defense mode and in last stand more than once)

Bear hugger:

1. Limited animal manipulation (trains with a bear in a daily basis and has conversation with him)

fine

Great tiger:

1. 4th wall breaking (winks at the camera when he wins)

They're at a boxing match, and what they see is a camera, as shown with Aran Ryan.

Don Flamenco:

1. Rage power (when lost his tupe, he becomes stronger and faster)
2. 4th wall breaking (Talks directly to the player)
3. Acrobatics (can do jump between platforms at what seems great speed)
4. Social influencing (as a famus boxer he has build a wide fanbase around him that loves him)

All fine

Super Macho Man:

1. Social influencing (as a famus boxer he has build a wide fanbase around him that loves him)

I think so

Mr.Sandman:

1. Rage Power (Becomame stronger for the title defense mode by getting mad)

Fine

ALL BOXERS SHOULD HAVE PREPARATION AS IN THE TITLE DEFENSE MODE HAVE TIME TO PREPARE OR TRAIN FOR GOING AGAINST LITTLE MAC

I doubt that training will be enough for preparation

 

[LandonTheGuy]

2. What's the explanation for Accelerated Development?

added it for error lol

6. I think you should elaborate more on the explanation. Looking at the link, I can understand it, but if you only read the justification, it doesn't tell you anything.
Something like this maybe?:

looks better

fine

They're at a boxing match, and what they see is a camera, as shown with Aran Ryan.

Aran has 4th wall breaking because of that lol

Also idk if someone would come even in a 5 meter radius from that guy

I doubt that training will be enough for preparation

I would say yes, because some of these provably count as Evolution (as some get significantly stronger overtime) or some like Aran Rayan literally prepares a weapon for a matchup, so that should count as Technological Preparation

 

[Sparkive]

New scaling
Wii - Contender mode
Wii - Title defense mode

Wii - Contender mode

Don Flamenco is the last fighter in the Major Circuit. Between him and the Minor Circuit, we have one of Little Mac's training montages, so I doubt anyone from the Minor Circuit will necessarily climb to Little Mac or Don Flamenco, however, an "At least" would probably work for Little Mac and any wrestler after Don Flaminco.
(it doesn't matter yet because for some reason Punch Out profiles only use characters after Title Defense).
Why would the characters scale with each other in LS?


Wii - Title defense mode
Same as before, but worse in Ls's case because he did this when he was high on soda, something we don't know if he does when he fights with others other than Mac.
The only exception is probably Mr. Sandman, for being incredibly superior to everyone else.

Wii - Contender mode (Only Mac and Kong)
You're probably referring to Last Stand... Aside from that, we don't know how many fights he had. The idea behind Last Stand is that Little Mac decided that if he lost three times he would retire. Sooner or later he lost those three times and retired, but he left his mark on boxing history.
For the ls, we don't really have anything that scales it up in LS to Soda Popinski.

 

[Sparkive]

Aran has 4th wall breaking because of that lol

Also idk if someone would come even in a 5 meter radius from that guy

I didn't realize, lol.
Even so, I think breaking a camera is safer, but oh well, it's not my decision.

I would say yes, because some of these provably count as Evolution (as some get significantly stronger overtime) or some like Aran Rayan literally prepares a weapon for a matchup, so that should count as Technological Preparation

Cases like Aran Rayn obviously count, what I'm referring to are those that aren't specified.
Like:
Glass Joe literally goes to the doctor and they tell him he needs to bring a case.
Disco Kid just takes some dance classes.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Wii - Contender mode

Don Flamenco is the last fighter in the Major Circuit. Between him and the Minor Circuit, we have one of Little Mac's training montages, so I doubt anyone from the Minor Circuit will necessarily climb to Little Mac or Don Flamenco, however, an "At least" would probably work for Little Mac and any wrestler after Don Flaminco.

Agree for the at least value but disagree for the thing about the

(it doesn't matter yet because for some reason Punch Out profiles only use characters after Title Defense).

It has always been an odd case to me

Why would the characters scale with each other in LS?

Grappling is a part of boxing afterall, and i'm sure most of these boxers have fought each other (as sandman literally fought all of them) so i guess saing that they have fought against each other should not be too out of this world (some people will have stuff that specify the fact that they are still weaker than bald bull, but comparable)

Wii - Title defense mode
Same as before, but worse in Ls's case because he did this when he was high on soda, something we don't know if he does when he fights with others other than Mac.
The only exception is probably Mr. Sandman, for being incredibly superior to everyone else.

fine

Wii - Contender mode (Only Mac and Kong)
You're probably referring to Last Stand... Aside from that, we don't know how many fights he had. The idea behind Last Stand is that Little Mac decided that if he lost three times he would retire. Sooner or later he lost those three times and retired, but he left his mark on boxing history.
For the ls, we don't really have anything that scales it up in LS to Soda Popinski.

Copy and pasted contender mode 2 times.

Regardless, i'm pretty sure that you need a specific number of times that you need to encounter kong (i'll see if i can find it).

Do we get peak human/class 1 for kong because he's still a gorilla?

 

[LandonTheGuy]

I didn't realize, lol.
Even so, I think breaking a camera is safer, but oh well, it's not my decision.

It's not a matter of extreme importance, so let's see what they say.

Cases like Aran Rayn obviously count, what I'm referring to are those that aren't specified.
Like:
Glass Joe literally goes to the doctor and they tell him he needs to bring a case.
Disco Kid just takes some dance classes.

I think those still fall on Technological Preparation and Evolution of prep as the point of title defense mode is defeating opponents that have adapted and prepared for your fighting style

 

[Sparkive]

Copy and pasted contender mode 2 times.

Regardless, i'm pretty sure that you need a specific number of times that you need to encounter kong (i'll see if i can find it).

Do we get peak human/class 1 for kong because he's still a gorilla?

From what I've checked, no, it's completely random. The only thing that seems linked to a number of wins is Champion mode, with 10 wins, but that's an extra mode and not part of the story (and we're not going to say that Mac only went through 10 fights before falling 3 times).

Probably yes to the LS

 

[LandonTheGuy]

From what I've checked, no, it's completely random. The only thing that seems linked to a number of wins is Champion mode, with 10 wins, but that's an extra mode and not part of the story (and we're not going to say that Mac only went through 10 fights before falling 3 times).

Probably yes to the LS

Allright i'll add the correction on the scaling that you have proposed and we should be good to go

 

[LandonTheGuy]

From what I've checked, no, it's completely random. The only thing that seems linked to a number of wins is Champion mode, with 10 wins, but that's an extra mode and not part of the story (and we're not going to say that Mac only went through 10 fights before falling 3 times).

Probably yes to the LS

can i add you to the crt as agreeing for the changes?

 

[Sparkive]

can i add you to the crt as agreeing for the changes?

i think so, yeah

 

[LandonTheGuy]

i think so, yeah

ty <3

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Did you post this on the CRT promotion thread?

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Did you post this on the CRT promotion thread?

woops

 

[LandonTheGuy]

done

 

[IDK3465]

f*ck it
I agree

 

[LandonTheGuy]

f*ck it
I agree

Kind of a shame that 9-A stuff was rejected, but oh well

I'll add you

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[Ninkan12]

Agree

Regarding preparation, I think that training generally isn’t preparation. However, under VS Battles, having knowledge of and training for a specific opponent could be classed as preparation. In the game, though, I’m pretty sure they train generally rather than specifically.

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

I agree to everything with the exception of 4th wall breaking.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

I agree to everything with the exception of 4th wall breaking.

Don or great Tiger?

 

[Greg_the_master_of_gods]

Don or great Tiger?

Both 4th wall breaking, i disagree with both.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[LandonTheGuy]

bump

 

[RaikiKurohane99]

Disagree with 4th Wall Breaking for Great Tiger. Neutral on Afterimage Creation for Little Mac. I have doubts on if that's enough because the afterimage lasts only for a very small time, so it wouldn't really be combat applicable.

Everything else seems fine.

 

[LandonTheGuy]

Disagree with 4th Wall Breaking for Great Tiger. Neutral on Afterimage Creation for Little Mac. I have doubts on if that's enough because the afterimage lasts only for a very small time, so it wouldn't really be combat applicable.

Everything else seems fine.

aight

 

[Mr. Bambu]

In regards to speed: I didn't see it questioned there, but why are you using 60 FPS? I doubt Punch-Out was 60 FPS, our baseline assumption is 25 FPS, and no reason was really given for that value.

In regards to abilities: Glass Joe's thing isn't Supernatural Willpower. The bear guy should just have Limited Animal Manip and not Social Influencing, Social Influencing is not necessary if we give him the supernatural ability to communicate with the bear (which he seems to have). Agree that Great Tiger's thing is pretty weak evidence and would be in favor of removing 4th Wall Awareness. Feel similarly with Don Flamenco's, he's looking into the perspective, yes, but nothing implies he is literally speaking to the player. He's just monologuing.

A lot of the scaling has no explanation so I feel a bit underequipped to approve or disapprove of it.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

In regards to speed: I didn't see it questioned there, but why are you using 60 FPS? I doubt Punch-Out was 60 FPS, our baseline assumption is 25 FPS, and no reason was really given for that value.

The video runs at 60 fps.

A lot of the scaling has no explanation so I feel a bit underequipped to approve or disapprove of it.

It's pretty much just everyone's fought Little Mac at some point in both games, Little Mac trains between fights and circuits, so each one is stronger than the last.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

The video runs at 60 fps.

That is good, but if the game runs at less than that, then it is just a 60 FPS playing of a slower program.

It's pretty much just everyone's fought Little Mac at some point in both games, Little Mac trains between fights and circuits, so each one is stronger than the last.

Alright. So for example, with the NES scaling, Super Macho Man is the weakest enemy? And this is why everyone scales to him? And Tiger is the slowest, so everyone scales to him?

 

[Rex_Eckles]

That is good, but if the game runs at less than that, then it is just a 60 FPS playing of a slower program.


Alright. So for example, with the NES scaling, Super Macho Man is the weakest enemy? And this is why everyone scales to him? And Tiger is the slowest, so everyone scales to him?

I found this.

 

[Mr. Bambu]

I found this.

This is for Wii. What about NES? We seem to be splitting them.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

Alright. So for example, with the NES scaling, Super Macho Man is the weakest enemy? And this is why everyone scales to him? And Tiger is the slowest, so everyone scales to him?

No, Super Macho Man is one of the last opponents in the game, but the rationale is that there's no indication that Little Mac gets so much stronger as to not warrant downscaling. I get if that's weak.

However, for Great Tiger, he's a relatively early opponent AND I'm pretty sure there's no indication Little Mac gets faster through training, at least not in the same way as strength.

 

[Rex_Eckles]

This is for Wii. What about NES? We seem to be splitting them.

The NES has a native frame rate of 60 fps, and apparently Punch-Out runs at 60 fps consistently without much slow down.