Goodbye Record of Ragnarok Level 5 and FLT

Demon_Lord18 · May 12, 2024

Well, let's start by quoting the statement that “Thor” can destroy the “earth” by using “Mjonir” which is interpreted as the “Planet” thus escalating it to Planetary, which is wrong to use this way, and I'll show you why…

The Japanese phrase “大地をも打ち砕く最強の神器也” can be translated into English as “The strongest divine weapon that breaks even the earth”.

But the kanji used for earth in the phrase is not used to refer to the Planet, when referring to the planet the 地球 is used instead of the 大地.

The words '地球' and '大地' in Mandarin (Chinese) have differences in meaning and usage.

1. 地球 (dìqiú):

Meaning: Refers to the planet Earth.

Context: This word is used to refer to the planet we live on, Earth. It is more scientific in nature and is commonly used in astronomy and science contexts.

Example: 地球是我们生活的地方。(Dìqiú shì wǒmen shēnghuó de dìfāng.) - Earth is where we live.

2. 大地 (dàdì):

Meaning: Refers to the ground or surface of the earth.

Context: This word refers more to the physical land or surface of the earth. It is often used in literary or poetic contexts to describe the beauty of nature or the power of nature.

Example: 大地上万物生长。(Dàdì shàng wànwù shēngzhǎng.) - Everything grows on the surface of the earth.

In the summary, '地球' refers to the planet Earth in general, while '大地' refers more to the physical ground or surface of the earth. This difference reflects the use of the words in different contexts, with '地球' more often used in scientific contexts and '大地' more often used in literary or poetic contexts.

So, yes, I think all the characters should leave level 5.
The verse would be downgraded to the multicontinental level, assuming it was referring to the whole planet

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Now let's move on to speed.

Adam & Zeus (Record of Ragnarok) Speed Redone

vsbattles.fandom.com

Time is not speed, speed can be greater, but for that to happen the distance needs to be greater in less time or the time needs to be less proportionally, his movement is much less than on the previous page. The distance Zeus covered in the feats always changes, the amount of punches and movement itself, he would have to throw the exact same punch with the time decreasing every second, and if you're going to use the time of the first feat then it's illogical to use the lightning speed quote or close to it.
This also goes against the manga, which places Apollo's SoL attack as the fastest in Heaven
It would be wrong to escalate Zeus to FTL with this quote that he would defend himself against this arrow, since the distance between them must also be considered.
Moments after Zeus finished his “combo”, Adam used the same attacks with the same speed on Zeus and he only managed to dodge the first attack, and with great difficulty, while all the others hit him.
So, to me, this statement seems a bit exaggerated.

Concordo : CharlesZaGreat, Blackcurrant91 (Agrees with downgrading due to lack of level 5 evidence), Greatsage13th, Damage3245 , DaReaperMan, DarkDragonMedeus , DarlingAurora, Robespierre_Isidore[/USER ], [USER=12353]PrinceofPein, Shadow_x007x, The_one_you_least_expect (Agrees with downgrading level 5), Qawsedf234 (Agrees with downgrading level 5)

Discordo : DavidTPPM, Giannysmag (Disagrees with downgrading level 5), PowerToScale, The_Smashor(Disagrees with the speed downgrade), Qawsedf234 (Disagrees with the speed downgrade)

Neutro : Aseka(neutral to agree with Earth interpretation),DarkDragonMedeus(neutral and leaning towards disagreeing with speed downgrade looking at the OP and counterarguments.), Giannysmag (neutral when it comes to speed), The_one_you_least_expect (neutral when it comes to speed)

note²:I've just edited the post to add who is agreeing or disagreeing, nothing else has been changed.

Aseka · May 12, 2024

Following, neutral to agree with Earth interpretation.

DavidTPPM · May 12, 2024

Demon_Lord18 said:
Well, let's start by quoting the statement that “Thor” can destroy the “earth” by using “Mjonir” which is interpreted as the “Planet” thus escalating it to Planetary, which is wrong to use this way, and I'll show you why…

The Japanese phrase “大地をも打ち砕く最強の神器也” can be translated into English as “The strongest divine weapon that breaks even the earth”.

But the kanji used for earth in the phrase is not used to refer to the Planet, when referring to the planet the 地球 is used instead of the 大地.

So, yes, I think all the characters should leave level 5.
The verse would be downgraded to the multicontinental level, assuming it was referring to the whole planet

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Even if we dismiss this statement, there are plenty others about destroying Heaven or the world. So simply debunking this one wouldn't be enough to get rid of tier 5 RoR. At worst it would drop them to "likely 5-B"

Demon_Lord18 said:
Now let's move on to speed.

Adam & Zeus (Record of Ragnarok) Speed Redone

vsbattles.fandom.com

Time is not speed, speed can be greater, but for that to happen the distance needs to be greater in less time or the time needs to be less proportionally, his movement is much less than on the previous page. The distance Zeus covered in the feats always changes, the amount of punches and movement itself, he would have to throw the exact same punch with the time decreasing every second, and if you're going to use the time of the first feat then it's illogical to use the lightning speed quote or close to it.

You didn't debunk the use of the Canon time frame nor did you debunk the distance traveled so I don't see how this does anything to the scaling.

Demon_Lord18 said:
This also goes against the manga, which places Apollo's SoL attack as the fastest in Heaven
It would be wrong to escalate Zeus to FTL with this quote that he would defend himself against this arrow, since the distance between them must also be considered.

Okay first of all, the statement uses past tense. Meaning it might not be true at the moment. If anything the statement of "That WAS the fastest strike in heaven" implies it no longer is.
This is especially likely because the fist that surpasses time exists which is undeniably faster than light.

Demon_Lord18 said:
Moments after Zeus finished his “combo”, Adam used the same attacks with the same speed on Zeus and he only managed to dodge the first attack, and with great difficulty, while all the others hit him.
So, to me, this statement seems a bit exaggerated.

Adam scales to Adamas Zeus. Base Zeus is obviously slower. This debunks absolutely nothing.

Overall I kinda see where you're coming from but this certainly isn't nearly enough to downgrade the verse.

CharlesZaGreat · May 12, 2024

I agree with downgrading the verse from planet level

AnonymousBlank · May 12, 2024

DavidTPPM said:
Okay first of all, the statement uses past tense. Meaning it might not be true at the moment. If anything the statement of "That WAS the fastest strike in heaven" implies it no longer is.
This is especially likely because the fist that surpasses time exists which is undeniably faster than light.

Hermes’ usage of “was” there isn’t saying that Apollo’s arrows used to be the fastest attack, it’s referring to the arrows that Apollo just popped off with. TFTST also isn’t faster, it’s hax. Adamas Zeus literally punches faster than it and those are clearly visible to anyone relevant.

DavidTPPM · May 12, 2024

AnonymousBlank said:
Hermes’ usage of “was” there isn’t saying that Apollo’s arrows used to be the fastest attack, it’s referring to the arrows that Apollo just popped off with.

That's debatable as he says so directly after saying the backstory of the attack.

AnonymousBlank said:
TFTST also isn’t faster, it’s hax.

It doesn't matter whether it's hax or shmax or whatever, it's still faster. It happens in at most 0.000000000000000000001 seconds. During this time light travels 2.9979246e-13 meters, or 0.00000000003 centimeters. Since Zeus is clearly moving more than 0.3 picometers, he is absolutely undeniably faster than light. It's not just undeniable by looking at the statements, but also narratively as his 0.01 second jab is already stated "near light speed" and this is canonically thousands of times faster.

In other words, Zeus being slower than light is complete bs.

AnonymousBlank said:
Adamas Zeus literally punches faster than it and those are clearly visible to anyone relevant.

So? Are you implying that since the arrows are "invisible" it means they perception blitz everyone? Because that could just mean the arrows are, yk, literally invisible. Not invisibly fast.

Robespierre_Isidore · May 12, 2024

Demon_Lord18 said:
Well, let's start by quoting the statement that “Thor” can destroy the “earth” by using “Mjonir” which is interpreted as the “Planet” thus escalating it to Planetary, which is wrong to use this way, and I'll show you why…

The Japanese phrase “大地をも打ち砕く最強の神器也” can be translated into English as “The strongest divine weapon that breaks even the earth”.

But the kanji used for earth in the phrase is not used to refer to the Planet, when referring to the planet the 地球 is used instead of the 大地.

So, yes, I think all the characters should leave level 5.
The verse would be downgraded to the multicontinental level, assuming it was referring to the whole planet

References for Common Feats

Throughout fiction and real life, there have been numerous feats demonstrating a certain character's or object's destructive power. This page's purpose is to consolidate calculations for those feats for better convenience in determining an object's or character's Attack Potency or Durability...

vsbattles.fandom.com

Now let's move on to speed.

Adam & Zeus (Record of Ragnarok) Speed Redone

vsbattles.fandom.com

Time is not speed, speed can be greater, but for that to happen the distance needs to be greater in less time or the time needs to be less proportionally, his movement is much less than on the previous page. The distance Zeus covered in the feats always changes, the amount of punches and movement itself, he would have to throw the exact same punch with the time decreasing every second, and if you're going to use the time of the first feat then it's illogical to use the lightning speed quote or close to it.
This also goes against the manga, which places Apollo's SoL attack as the fastest in Heaven
It would be wrong to escalate Zeus to FTL with this quote that he would defend himself against this arrow, since the distance between them must also be considered.

Moments after Zeus finished his “combo”, Adam used the same attacks with the same speed on Zeus and he only managed to dodge the first attack, and with great difficulty, while all the others hit him.
So, to me, this statement seems a bit exaggerated.

THIS IS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT.

All the planetary statements seem to stem from a vast amount of mistranslation and assuming they correlate to the mythological variations without evidence.
Apollo was even stated as 'strongest' by Zeus... His hit as you mentioned is claimed to be the fastest in Heaven, Zeus also likely can defend himself because he can stop time rather than outright speed.
Another speed feat to note for other gods is Odin not being able to react to the lightning generated by Thor in chapter 88 outside of being caught off guard by it.

If Odin is a cheif god or comparable to Zeus's estimates of a strong god then he's slower than lightning.

Next; AP
We have seen multiple strong characters with strong attacks they have no method of scaling to themselves: such as Beelzebub and Chaos, Shiva will literally die in the fire dance of his, and there are other examples too (such as Lu-Bu's weapon not scaling to his output and then his durability not scaling to that either), most of these powers are through hax and it is evident the ability will KILL the user. The primordial gods themselves don't even scale to their power.. they made everything but died horribly using it so again I'd propose it's more likely their hax rather than their attack power. See evidence here

Noted on the planetary range for Tier 5 I have issues because these scans here is used as a justification

The issue is it never mentions the planet being destroyed it just mentions killing humanity. So they should be dropped from Planetary in power.

In conclusion we have not seen any actual feats that justify planetary levels of AP most of the hax that are hyped up to those levels of power have been shown to be devastating and do not scale to the normal output nor durability of these characters and more evidence to dictate that in fact we can reject the original claim of faster than light given no gods could react to Apollo's speed save Zeus and that is likely including the fact he CAN STOP TIME. Don't have to be fast after all if you can put everything on pause.

I FULLY AGREE.

AnonymousBlank · May 12, 2024

DavidTPPM said:
That's debatable as he says so directly after saying the backstory of the attack.

It really isn’t. Hermes doesn’t give a backstory for the attack at all but talking about the attack Apollo just used. But let’s steelman that Hermes is talking about the attack in ye olden days and that it used to be the fastest attack in the heavens, Zeus having TFTST is not a new thing nor has he been stated or implied to have gotten faster. None of the gods have besides Apollo himself who is constantly improving.

DavidTPPM said:
It doesn't matter whether it's hax or shmax or whatever, it's still faster. It happens in at most 0.000000000000000000001 seconds. During this time light travels 2.9979246e-13 meters, or 0.00000000003 centimeters. Since Zeus is clearly moving more than 0.3 picometers, he is absolutely undeniably faster than light. It's not just undeniable by looking at the statements, but also narratively as his 0.01 second jab is already stated "near light speed" and this is canonically thousands of times faster.

You should go read the definition for hax because you clearly don’t know what you are talking about. TFTST is time hax, not a speed feat. Zeus’ initial punches are also nowhere near light speed, nor were they stated to be so outside of the anime (which is secondary to the manga) and also contradicts itself. If Zeus needs 0.01 seconds to throw a rel+ jab, time or speed in RoR must not work like it does irl.

DavidTPPM said:
In other words, Zeus being slower than light is complete bs.

Come back when Zeus bothers to correct Hermes like whenever he sees smth that doesn’t make sense or hears something that’s wrong. Bro always speaks up and is the most reputable source of info in the setting but he doesn’t contradict Hermes’ statement about the arrows at all, just follows it up with his own statement.

DavidTPPM said:
So? Are you implying that since the arrows are "invisible" it means they perception blitz everyone? Because that could just mean the arrows are, yk, literally invisible. Not invisibly fast.

I’m not implying that at all. TGR grazed Adam while TFTST didn’t, ergo TGR > TFTST in speed and yet the faster punch could be seen by the cast while the slower one could not. If only there was some magical property of TFTST to explain why this is the case like, I dunno, it being time hax.

Onto the arrows being invisible, no. Nothing says the arrows are actually invisible at all, just that the moment Apollo looses them, they pierced both Leo and the arena wall. When they get spammed like strobe lights, people can now register the arrows because of how many there are. Leo can’t see them because of their speed, not because the light is spontaneously invisible when it never was for the entire fight. The whole thing about the arrows is that they were hyped to be really fast, why ignore that and attribute it other properties?

Phsccarvalho · May 12, 2024

AnonymousBlank said:
TFTST also isn’t faster, it’s hax. Adamas Zeus literally punches faster than it and those are clearly visible to anyone relevant.

Robespierre_Isidore said:
CAN STOP TIME.

Just one thing, it is accepted on the wiki that TFTST is a pure speed technique with no time manipulation.

So if you want to use this as an argument for something, you would need to make a crt for TFTST first.

Phsccarvalho · May 12, 2024

Robespierre_Isidore said:
All the planetary statements seem to stem from a vast amount of mistranslation and assuming they correlate to the mythological variations without evidence.

Not really, the English translation of these things is good. It's just a matter of a word being able to mean several things, or more interpretative, like Shiva's things, etc.

Damage3245 · May 12, 2024

OP makes sense to me; a downgrade seems warranted.

Giannysmag · May 12, 2024

Disagree with the Tier 5 stuff since it doesnt exclusively come from Thors statement.

Neutral on the FTL stuff

DarlingAurora · May 12, 2024

Agreed

Phsccarvalho · May 12, 2024

Damage3245 said:
OP makes sense to me; a downgrade seems warranted.

Damage, could you call @SamanPatou ? He is a staff who knows the work and agreed in a past crt about TFTST being a pure speed technique, etc. (which matters for apollo's statement). So his opinion would be good.

Damage3245 · May 12, 2024

Somebody update the verse page because the highest calc on there is City level+.

Minos_the_Judge · May 12, 2024

What about Shiva? He is stated as the one who destroyed and created the world many times.

CharlesZaGreat · May 12, 2024

Minos_the_Judge said:
What about Shiva? He is stated as the one who destroyed and created the world many times.

Yeah, but Heimdall said that shit. The same guy that claimed that Apollo killed Python, that Adam hated the gods, and that Jack the Ripper was the real Jack the Ripper

There's also the narration statement which makes no ******* sense since how can there be text about a technique that Shiva has never used before

Minos_the_Judge · May 12, 2024

CharlesZaGreat said:
Yeah, but Heimdall said that shit. The same guy that claimed that Apollo killed Python, that Adam hated the gods, and that Jack the Ripper was the real Jack the Ripper

There's also the narration statement which makes no ******* sense since how can there be text about a technique that Shiva has never used before

Yes, but didn't you just drop evidence that he's capable of destroying planets? Because it is written on your scan, and it was said by the manga itself, not Heimdall.

CharlesZaGreat · May 12, 2024

Minos_the_Judge said:
Yes, but didn't you just drop evidence that he's capable of destroying planets? Because it is written on your scan, and it was said by the manga itself, not Heimdall.

The scene itself contradicts itself saying that Shiva will destroy the world by performing this technique while Shiva is like "I have no ******* idea what's going happen when do this shit, lets find out"

It's just author incorporating text from mythology into their series... Though if you look at round 1 you can see that's pointless since they directly quote shit and then immediately say that isn't the truth. When you consider that the text was written by humans, it makes sense they get details very wrong compared to what the gods are really like. Hell, they can't even get historical figures right in this series (Assuming that Kojirō and Musashi resented each other when that wasn't the case, that Lü Bu was a treacherous person who begged for his life during his execution when that wasn't the case, that Raiden was banned from using certain techniques in order to make matches more entertaining when that wasn't the case)

Blackcurrant91 · May 12, 2024

I never liked tier 5 ror because its all literally statements instead of actual direct feats. Even Shivas statement is from a religious text (from irl and in verse. The Vedas are a collection of poems) about him that as a result, is directly trying to wank him as much as possible. Unless there is other tier 5 statements (other then Shivas because Thor's is possibly not useable any longer) then I agree with the downgrade.

Robespierre_Isidore · May 13, 2024

Minos_the_Judge said:
manga itself

It's 'written in the Vedas' and there is other text-based references in the series that aren't accurate such as these:

1) Lu Bu's execution is a giant lie according to the texts

another one here...

2) Says to hit 100% of the time clearly doesn't and is claimed from the Prose Edda

again contradiction of text here

3) if all knowing how do they not know it?
4) Awakened Thunder Hammer needs Awakened Mjőlnir so uhhh yeah there's that one.

Another mild issue with truth/contradiction here:

4.5)Originally 13 but then edited to say 12 based on the lies told by Hermes.

An admission of it here

5) More legend than fact of the Nitenki

This one is pretty bad too

6) Tradition of the 8 lucky gods was just the 7 lucky gods but no that was a lie it is just 1 god there is not an 8th
This one is a minor one but it still gets me

This contradicts with chapter 70's

There is no evidence of him being Baal save that line and if anything everything else points to him not being such.

Brought up earlier is the mention of the line from the Vedas and we see no such bringing of the end of the world, Shiva even doesn't know what in fact it will do so we can not affirm the capacity of this line of text either.

7 / 8 contradictions involving narration or "text" stuff such as the Vedas. There is regular use of the 'is this so? NAY NAY NAY' type formatting in the narrative statements as well in the series making it clear that dubious intent is intended with these sorts of statements.

I think NO such in-world text should be used for scaling from RoR because of the regular contradictions in this regard.

Shadow_x007x · May 13, 2024

I agree with the downgrade from 5-B, but I don't think there's such a weight of evidence that we can be confident they're true. High 6-A, but I don't think High 6-A is true either. I would agree with a level of "7-A (scaled to a god higher than any mortal like Lu Bu who has an achievement of 7-B+ and that distance is only... 1.252661906551421 times to increase god level to 7-A 100 Megatons of TNT)

Demon_Lord18 · May 13, 2024

DavidTPPM said:
Even if we dismiss this statement, there are plenty others about destroying Heaven or the world. So simply debunking this one wouldn't be enough to get rid of tier 5 RoR. At worst it would drop them to "likely 5-B"

No? The sky itself doesn't look like a planet, but a place made up of several floating islands.
Eden, the place where all Christian mythology lives, is just a set of floating islands, which makes me think that all heaven is like that

and another set of islands is shown when Zeus goes to talk to Buddha.

And Buddha and Zeus are on another island

Sparkive · May 13, 2024

Shadow_x007x said:
I would agree with a level of "7-A (scaled to a god higher than any mortal like Lu Bu who has an achievement of 7-B+ and that distance is only... 1.252661906551421 times to increase god level to 7-A 100 Megatons of TNT)

I don't know what to think about the CTR, but about this, the Calc has problems, I tried to redo it , but based on what RustyOne said, in fact it is not possible/ very difficult to find the exact level that it should be and the best thing to do is something like this
(Also read the comments for more info)

Shadow_x007x · May 13, 2024

Sparkive said:
I don't know what to think about the CTR, but about this, the Calc has problems, I tried to redo it , but based on what RustyOne said, in fact it is not possible/ very difficult to find the exact level that it should be and the best thing to do is something like this
(Also read the comments for more info)

You will need to create a thread to change this calculation to the current calculation before we can use it for scaling.

The_Smashor · May 13, 2024

Demon_Lord18 said:
This also goes against the manga, which places Apollo's SoL attack as the fastest in Heaven

I'm not 100% certain about planetary stuff, but Apollo on his own shouldn't lock the verse out of FTL. When Hermes notes that it's the fastest hit in the divine realm, it's in quotation marks. It's a title, not a statement of how fast it actually is. Zeus even notes he's capable of stopping it (Poseidon was likely excluded from this statement since he was dead at the time).

Given the average god can't even see the shadow of Zeus' fastest strikes, and Poseidon should be even faster, it's very likely this title was created by gods who are unaware of Zeus and Poseidon's maximum speed or people who are overhyping Apollo in-universe.

I agree The Fist That Surpassed Time is a time stop rather than infinite speed, though.

Sparkive · May 13, 2024

Shadow_x007x said:
You will need to create a thread to change this calculation to the current calculation before we can use it for scaling.

I know
I will do it in the century that this finishes being revised

DaReaperMan · May 13, 2024

I also agree to 7-A!

What-- no! Definitely not for any match-related reasons(I do actually agree with the thread, I'm saying I might have unconscious bias due to the constant want for WoW matches)

The_one_you_least_expect · May 13, 2024

I agree on the Thor statement but not necessarily on the verse being downgraded entirely since shiva statements are a thing

Netrual on the ftl thing for now

Greatsage13th · May 13, 2024

I agreed with the proposals.

PowerToScale · May 13, 2024

Not gonna debate the planet stuff much but I will say this, Thor isn't the sole reason for Tier 5, Shiva himself is stated to destroy and create the world on a whim, and is further noted to destroy the world down to ash and react create it from said ashes in his Tandem form. Thor's statement taking which would be at least multi-continental and Shiva's being planetary. This wouldn't really affect anything.

Demon_Lord18 said:
Now let's move on to speed.

Adam & Zeus (Record of Ragnarok) Speed Redone

vsbattles.fandom.com

Time is not speed, speed can be greater, but for that to happen the distance needs to be greater in less time or the time needs to be less proportionally, his movement is much less than on the previous page. The distance Zeus covered in the feats always changes, the amount of punches and movement itself, he would have to throw the exact same punch with the time decreasing every second, and if you're going to use the time of the first feat then it's illogical to use the lightning speed quote or close to it.
This also goes against the manga, which places Apollo's SoL attack as the fastest in Heaven
It would be wrong to escalate Zeus to FTL with this quote that he would defend himself against this arrow, since the distance between them must also be considered.

Moments after Zeus finished his “combo”, Adam used the same attacks with the same speed on Zeus and he only managed to dodge the first attack, and with great difficulty, while all the others hit him.
So, to me, this statement seems a bit exaggerated.

You are forgetting some things here, something others have pointed out. Zeus directly states after the light arrows that he is capable of stopping the attack. AKA the story is stating that Zeus himself is FTL so the calc isn't wrong or contradicts anything, unless we stop using the story lmao

We already fizzled out who would be scaling to what already for the speed anyways in the previous thread so this part of the crt is a necro and OP could probably go read the the previous thread, not too long.

Blackcurrant91 · May 13, 2024

There is already multiple debunks to Shivas statements and statements that come from in verse texts in general

PrinceofPein · May 13, 2024

I actually agree with these

BoastJr · May 13, 2024

I agree with the 5-B downgrade. I personally think RoR might get more legitimate feats in the future seeing as how the we are getting sneak peaks of the main potential villain. For now it seems fine since there is not much to substantiate it.

I am neutral on the speed statement.

Minos_the_Judge · May 13, 2024

What about the World Serpent that Thor killed with one blow?

CharlesZaGreat · May 13, 2024

Minos_the_Judge said:
What about the World Serpent that Thor killed with one blow?

We don't know it's size

Minos_the_Judge · May 13, 2024

CharlesZaGreat said:
We don't know it's size

Well, then hello 7-A.

The_one_you_least_expect · May 13, 2024

CharlesZaGreat said:
The scene itself contradicts itself saying that Shiva will destroy the world by performing this technique while Shiva is like "I have no ******* idea what's going happen when do this shit, lets find out"

It's just author incorporating text from mythology into their series... Though if you look at round 1 you can see that's pointless since they directly quote shit and then immediately say that isn't the truth. When you consider that the text was written by humans, it makes sense they get details very wrong compared to what the gods are really like. Hell, they can't even get historical figures right in this series (Assuming that Kojirō and Musashi resented each other when that wasn't the case, that Lü Bu was a treacherous person who begged for his life during his execution when that wasn't the case, that Raiden was banned from using certain techniques in order to make matches more entertaining when that wasn't the case)

Usually the series we’ll say “nay” then make up there own lore on the text or event. Which they don’t do for shiva so this doesn’t really matter

Robespierre_Isidore said:
It's 'written in the Vedas' and there is other text-based references in the series that aren't accurate such as these:

1) Lu Bu's execution is a giant lie according to the texts

another one here...

2) Says to hit 100% of the time clearly doesn't and is claimed from the Prose Edda

again contradiction of text here

3) if all knowing how do they not know it?
4) Awakened Thunder Hammer needs Awakened Mjőlnir so uhhh yeah there's that one.

Another mild issue with truth/contradiction here:

4.5)Originally 13 but then edited to say 12 based on the lies told by Hermes.

An admission of it here

5) More legend than fact of the Nitenki

This one is pretty bad too

6) Tradition of the 8 lucky gods was just the 7 lucky gods but no that was a lie it is just 1 god there is not an 8th
This one is a minor one but it still gets me

This contradicts with chapter 70's

There is no evidence of him being Baal save that line and if anything everything else points to him not being such.

Brought up earlier is the mention of the line from the Vedas and we see no such bringing of the end of the world, Shiva even doesn't know what in fact it will do so we can not affirm the capacity of this line of text either.

7 / 8 contradictions involving narration or "text" stuff such as the Vedas. There is regular use of the 'is this so? NAY NAY NAY' type formatting in the narrative statements as well in the series making it clear that dubious intent is intended with these sorts of statements.

I think NO such in-world text should be used for scaling from RoR because of the regular contradictions in this regard.

Well that could mean the human world instead of heaven. Depends, from what I remember it sounded more like a prophecy seeing as how it said something like “when the time is ready” or whatever

True but it doesn’t do it for the vedas or atleasts it’s version of it

DarkDragonMedeus · May 13, 2024

AP downgrade looks alright, but I am neutral and leaning towards disagreeing with speed downgrade looking at the OP and counterarguments.

Greatsage13th · May 14, 2024

Goodbye Record of Ragnarok Level 5 and FLT

Hard Working Individual

Similar threads