Marvel's Comics' Magnificent Mystic Cosmology full of Marvelous Magic!

Eseseso · Mar 29, 2026

So here is the Mystic Cosmology Blog I've been working on for Marvel.

Asides from explaining the mystic universe and its various dimensions, this also provides better context for realms such as the Astral Plane and their tiering, and further explains the 1-A nature of Eternity via him containing all these mystic realms within him including the 1-A Realms.

Here are some changes asides from this all being added to the Marvel cosmology page:

Skyfathers at their peak
Hell-Lords at their peak
Dormammu out of his own realm (in his own realm he'll be "Low 1-A, up to 1-A", and same goes for Umar and Clea")
Celestials in their First Key and Watchers (Supported by Celestials scaling above Skyfathers and Watchers existing on transfinite levels of reality with Celestials being >= Watchers)
Anyone who scales to the above without other scaling (such as Doctor Doom's prep)

Gods (in their own realms)
Hell-Lords (in their own realms)
Dormammu
Watchers (Watchers exist on transfinite levels of reality, and fought the Celestials on every plane of existence in a conflict so great that the Earth dimension was created in the Big Bang caused by a minor aftershock of their war)
Celestials inside the Universe (via scaling to the Watchers)

Shuma-Gorath (see Outer Dark section)
Nightmare
Astral Forms

Seeing as Asgard will no longer be 5D, plus the fact that most Heralds without direct Thor scaling shouldn't actually scale to his tier, most Heralds will go back to their previous tier 3 selves, with the ones that were previously High 3-A getting that back. While people have pointed out issues with the High 3-A feats, those will be saved for a future CRT, since the main point here is to axe Low 1-C since Asgard is no longer 5-D.

Staff Agreements: @Emirp sumitpo, @Planck69, @KingTempest, @Elizhaa, @DarkDragonMedeus

Oliver_de_jesus · Mar 29, 2026

as someone who read this before, sure, i agree

Rgerdeena · Mar 29, 2026

I have one question, what tier is peak Thor going to be as a placeholder for until the Thor CRT

Also I agree with everything

KLOL506 · Mar 29, 2026

@Ultima_Reality @Executor_N0 @Planck69 @Elizhaa @Dereck03 @Maverick_Zero_X @Just a Random Butler @Qawsedf234 @Firestorm808 @Celestial_Pegasus @Everything12

@Theglassman12 @UchihaSlayer96 @KingTempest @Emirp sumitpo @Random-Helper323 @Reiner04 @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Catzlaflame @Dalesean027 @Oblivion_Of_The_Endless @Vietthai96 @FinePoint @TWILIGHT-OP

Help my homie Eseseso out please

Re5yh · Mar 29, 2026

Looks good, I agree

Emirp sumitpo · Mar 29, 2026

OP looks fine.

Excellence616 · Mar 29, 2026

As one who suggested a tiny bit to this thread and read it beforehand, i agree.

DaReaperMan · Mar 30, 2026

@Antvasima You'll want to get involved in this I'm sure.

As for the OP... as someone without a lot of tier 1 knowledge, most of this is gibberish to me, but I agree with what I understand.

Planck69 · Mar 30, 2026

Looks good at a glance.

KingTempest · Mar 30, 2026

Marvel's Comics' Magnificent Mystic Cosmology full of Marvelous Magic!

KingTempest said:
Shit like this stops me from evaluating cause you really thought I was gon read this lmaooooo

THIS IS A JOKE

this looks fine

Hasty12345 · Mar 30, 2026

Looks good, could you put the references in a scrollbox though?

MrKerf · Mar 30, 2026

Random-Helper323 · Mar 30, 2026

This seems to require knowledge of Marvel's cosmology to evaluate accurately. I'll follow the thread and wait for more input.

Osemere · Mar 30, 2026

Agree with everything

Elizhaa · Mar 30, 2026

These proposals look largely fine,

DarkDragonMedeus · Mar 30, 2026

Looks good to me

Re5yh · Mar 30, 2026

So 3 admins has agreed with this proposal right?

Eseseso · Mar 30, 2026

Rgerdeena said:
I have one question, what tier is peak Thor going to be as a placeholder for until the Thor CRT

Also I agree with everything

His Low 1-C will go back to High 3-A for now and his peak will be "Low 1-A to 1-A".

Eseseso · Mar 30, 2026

Re5yh said:
So 3 admins has agreed with this proposal right?

Yes, but grace isn't until 48 hours following the thread's creation

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

Excellent work. I'd already had a good idea of how it was going to look, but it's very solid. Agree.

Eseseso · Mar 30, 2026

Here's another scan from a very recent issue showing how the God Realms are adjacent to other mystic realms, the Hell realm of Underworld, and Limbo.

Storm: Earth's Mightiest Mutant #2

Post with 1 views. Storm: Earth's Mightiest Mutant #2

imgchest.com

Suigetsuhyugs · Mar 30, 2026

I'm kinda dumb on the whole higher dimensions and all but isn't your blog talking about how Asgard and other God realms exist beyond space time wouldn't that be 5-D? So what exactly is Asgard (God realms)? Is it like a 4-D dimension parallel to Earth? Is it a dimension with extra spacial dimensions compared to earth?

Rgerdeena · Mar 30, 2026

Suigetsuhyugs said:
I'm kinda dumb on the whole higher dimensions and all but isn't your blog talking about how Asgard and other God realms exist beyond space time wouldn't that be 5-D? So what exactly is Asgard (God realms)? Is it like a 4-D dimension parallel to Earth? Is it a dimension with extra spacial dimensions compared to earth?

It exists beyond the infinite dimensional space time not just the 3 dimensional space time as far as I understand

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

Rgerdeena said:
It exists beyond the infinite dimensional space time not just the 3 dimensional space time as far as I understand

This is correct

Suigetsuhyugs · Mar 30, 2026

Rgerdeena said:
It exists beyond the infinite dimensional space time not just the 3 dimensional space time as far as I understand

How is that different from 5-D?

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

Asgard is frequently described as existing entirely beyond concepts of space and time as well as beyond all known dimensions

Oliver_de_jesus · Mar 30, 2026

Suigetsuhyugs said:
How is that different from 5-D?

5 dimensions are a subset of infinite dimensions, God realms (Such as Asgard) are beyond of infinite dimensions, thus Asgard is above 5D, So God realms are L1-A

Eseseso · Mar 30, 2026

Suigetsuhyugs said:
How is that different from 5-D?

Gods exist not only on all planes of existence but also above the infinite-d subspace as well as on the same level as the Hell Lords, who are pan-dimensional and scale to Limbo along with being infinitely transcendent of the Earth dimension.

Good question though.

Suigetsuhyugs · Mar 30, 2026

NaturalDestroyer said:
Asgard is frequently described as existing entirely beyond concepts of space and time as well as beyond all known dimensions

Oliver_de_jesus said:
5 dimensions are a subset of infinite dimensions, God realms (Such as Asgard) are beyond of infinite dimensions, thus Asgard is above 5D, So God realms are L1-A

Eseseso said:
Gods exist not only on all planes of existence but also above the infinite-d subspace as well as on the same level as the Hell Lords, who are pan-dimensional and scale to Limbo along with being infinitely transcendent of the Earth dimension.

Good question though.

I understand that but that doesn't sound like a downgrade, isn't the whole point to downgrade them?

Rgerdeena · Mar 30, 2026

Suigetsuhyugs said:
I understand that but that doesn't sound like a downgrade, isn't the whole point to downgrade them?

It’s an upgrade for god realms, it’s a downgrade for skyfathers

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

Rgerdeena said:
It’s an upgrade for god realms, it’s a downgrade for skyfathers

Yep

ObberGobb · Mar 30, 2026

The cosmology work itself looks good, but I have a few concerns about the scaling implications.

Scarlet Witch considers herself and All-Father Thor to be equal powers to Nightmare, implying that the gap between Skyfather Tier and him isn't very big at all
Could you elborate more on the "Low 1-A, up to 1-A" thing for Dormammu? Does he have a varies mechanism that could be explained in his page? I don't like the idea of characters inexplicably having two tiers, it just creates confusion.
Doctor Strange pretty blatantly scales to Nightmare and Dormammu (which we already accept), so he should logically be 1-A rather than Low 1-A. Despite this, Loki was shown to be vastly more powerful than pre-Sorcerer Strange Doctor Strange (who had already accomplished some of his feats against Nightmare and Dormammu), implying Skyfather Tier magic isn't incomparably below Nightmare and Dormammu. In addition, Doctor Strange has said Mephisto has the power to kill him
Nightmare was utterly terrified of Cul, with Mephisto saying that he would be doomed if he tried to fight against him. Mephisto also rather scornfully mocked him for barely being at Doctor Strange's level. All of this implies that Nightmare is not above Skyfather/Hell Lord level at all, much less completely transcending them.
Yggdrasil, which every Skyfather scales to due to many consistent feats affecting it, exists across ALL planes of reality, which should include the Astral Realm and Nightmare's realm. If Nightmare's realm and the Astral realm are part of the Earth-616 reality, I see no reason to treat them as separate.
The Phoenix Force is 1-A, and from what I understand will remain 1-A after this proposal. My problem with this is that it is stated that the likes of All-Father Thor, Odin, Galactus, and Scarlet Witch have the power to kill the Phoenix. This also shows that it isn't consistent in-universe for there to be a gap between these levels of characters as Low 1-A and 1-A implies.
Mephisto, Nightmare, and Dormammu have fought a war against each other and thus should be at least somewhat comparable, something that is part of Nightmare's justification on his page
The five Hell Lords needed to work together to face Dormammu, with Pluto saying that "Dormammu ruleth alone the equal of what we five rule together." This shows that Dormammu definitely is more powerful than the Hell Lords, but the problem is that 1-A divided by 5 is still 1-A.

Basically, I do not this a tier gap of this magnitude is at all consistent. The tiering system says of 1-A that it "transcends lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness." That level of gap it not at all implied. Even if there is certainly a gap (Dormammu is definitely stronger than the Hell Lords), the gap is nowhere near as extreme as "vanishing into nothingness." I agree with the cosmology stuff, but I disagree with the downgrade for the characters. Frankly, I think either all of them should be 1-A or they should all be Low 1-A.

Rgerdeena · Mar 30, 2026

ObberGobb said:
The cosmology work itself looks good, but I have a few concerns about the scaling implications.

Scarlet Witch considers herself and All-Father Thor to be equal powers to Nightmare, implying that the gap between Skyfather Tier and him isn't very big at all

Could you elborate more on the "Low 1-A, up to 1-A" thing for Dormammu? Does he have a varies mechanism that could be explained in his page? I don't like the idea of characters inexplicably having two tiers, it just creates confusion.

Doctor Strange pretty blatantly scales to Nightmare and Dormammu (which we already accept), so he should logically be 1-A rather than Low 1-A. Despite this, Loki was shown to be vastly more powerful than pre-Sorcerer Strange Doctor Strange (who had already accomplished some of his feats against Nightmare and Dormammu), implying Skyfather Tier magic isn't incomparably below Nightmare and Dormammu. In addition, Doctor Strange has said Mephisto has the power to kill him

Nightmare was utterly terrified of Cul, with Mephisto saying that he would be doomed if he tried to fight against him. Mephisto also rather scornfully mocked him for barely being at Doctor Strange's level. All of this implies that Nightmare is not above Skyfather/Hell Lord level at all, much less completely transcending them.

Yggdrasil, which every Skyfather scales to due to many consistent feats affecting it, exists across ALL planes of reality, which should include the Astral Realm and Nightmare's realm. If Nightmare's realm and the Astral realm are part of the Earth-616 reality, I see no reason to treat them as separate.

The Phoenix Force is 1-A, and from what I understand will remain 1-A after this proposal. My problem with this is that it is stated that the likes of All-Father Thor, Odin, Galactus, and Scarlet Witch have the power to kill the Phoenix. This also shows that it isn't consistent in-universe for there to be a gap between these levels of characters as Low 1-A and 1-A implies.

Mephisto, Nightmare, and Dormammu have fought a war against each other and thus should be at least somewhat comparable, something that is part of Nightmare's justification on his page

The five Hell Lords needed to work together to face Dormammu, with Pluto saying that "Dormammu ruleth alone the equal of what we five rule together." This shows that Dormammu definitely is more powerful than the Hell Lords, but the problem is that 1-A divided by 5 is still 1-A.

Basically, I do not this a tier gap of this magnitude is at all consistent. The tiering system says of 1-A that it "transcends lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness." That level of gap it not at all implied. Even if there is certainly a gap (Dormammu is definitely stronger than the Hell Lords), the gap is nowhere near as extreme as "vanishing into nothingness." I agree with the cosmology stuff, but I disagree with the downgrade for the characters. Frankly, I think either all of them should be 1-A or they should all be Low 1-A.

Scarlet witch and all father Thor are 1-A at peak not skyfather tier, ygsradil is very inconsistent, pheonix force might not end up 1-A, everything else is either outliers or should be addressed by someone more knowledgeable then me

ObberGobb · Mar 30, 2026

Rgerdeena said:
Scarlet witch and all father Thor are 1-A at peak not skyfather tier, ygsradil is very inconsistent, pheonix force might not end up 1-A, everything else is either outliers or should be addressed by someone more knowledgeable then me

What will Scarlet Witch and All-Father Thor's scaling look like? I know the latter will be scaled to Elder Gods, but where are they going to be?

Rgerdeena · Mar 30, 2026

ObberGobb said:
What will Scarlet Witch and All-Father Thor's scaling look like? I know the latter will be scaled to Elder Gods, but where are they going to be?

Wanda’s probably going to be 1-A at peak which is justified by magic being 1-A, all father Thor will probably be 1-A+ at peak

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

Just noting that All-Father Thor is typically depicted as much stronger than regular Skyfathers, so the Low 1-A downgrade wouldn't affect him. I also agree that regular Skyfathers do have pretty solid 1-A scaling with Nightmare, Mephisto, and Galactus stuff, but I'll address that in my Thor Mythos MegaCRT so I'm not too concerned about it here. I'm mainly agreeing with the mystic cosmology outlay that Eseseso created

Eseseso · Mar 30, 2026

ObberGobb said:
The cosmology work itself looks good, but I have a few concerns about the scaling implications.

Scarlet Witch considers herself and All-Father Thor to be equal powers to Nightmare, implying that the gap between Skyfather Tier and him isn't very big at all

Could you elborate more on the "Low 1-A, up to 1-A" thing for Dormammu? Does he have a varies mechanism that could be explained in his page? I don't like the idea of characters inexplicably having two tiers, it just creates confusion.

Doctor Strange pretty blatantly scales to Nightmare and Dormammu (which we already accept), so he should logically be 1-A rather than Low 1-A. Despite this, Loki was shown to be vastly more powerful than pre-Sorcerer Strange Doctor Strange (who had already accomplished some of his feats against Nightmare and Dormammu), implying Skyfather Tier magic isn't incomparably below Nightmare and Dormammu. In addition, Doctor Strange has said Mephisto has the power to kill him

Nightmare was utterly terrified of Cul, with Mephisto saying that he would be doomed if he tried to fight against him. Mephisto also rather scornfully mocked him for barely being at Doctor Strange's level. All of this implies that Nightmare is not above Skyfather/Hell Lord level at all, much less completely transcending them.

Yggdrasil, which every Skyfather scales to due to many consistent feats affecting it, exists across ALL planes of reality, which should include the Astral Realm and Nightmare's realm. If Nightmare's realm and the Astral realm are part of the Earth-616 reality, I see no reason to treat them as separate.

The Phoenix Force is 1-A, and from what I understand will remain 1-A after this proposal. My problem with this is that it is stated that the likes of All-Father Thor, Odin, Galactus, and Scarlet Witch have the power to kill the Phoenix. This also shows that it isn't consistent in-universe for there to be a gap between these levels of characters as Low 1-A and 1-A implies.

Mephisto, Nightmare, and Dormammu have fought a war against each other and thus should be at least somewhat comparable, something that is part of Nightmare's justification on his page

The five Hell Lords needed to work together to face Dormammu, with Pluto saying that "Dormammu ruleth alone the equal of what we five rule together." This shows that Dormammu definitely is more powerful than the Hell Lords, but the problem is that 1-A divided by 5 is still 1-A.

Basically, I do not this a tier gap of this magnitude is at all consistent. The tiering system says of 1-A that it "transcends lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness." That level of gap it not at all implied. Even if there is certainly a gap (Dormammu is definitely stronger than the Hell Lords), the gap is nowhere near as extreme as "vanishing into nothingness." I agree with the cosmology stuff, but I disagree with the downgrade for the characters. Frankly, I think either all of them should be 1-A or they should all be Low 1-A.

That scaling can be saved for a different thread.

ObberGobb · Mar 30, 2026

Eseseso said:
That scaling can be saved for a different thread.

In that case, I agree with the proposals. I'd be fine with a temporary Low 1-A for all those characters before @NaturalDestroyer's thread if need be.

NaturalDestroyer · Mar 30, 2026

ObberGobb said:
In that case, I agree with the proposals. I'd be fine with a temporary Low 1-A for all those characters before @NaturalDestroyer's thread if need be.

I think that's the best approach to take for now

The_2nd_Existential_Seed · Mar 30, 2026

I personally think the Celestials should vary in the first tier. The named Celestials are consistently regarded as Abstract level, while the random no named Celestials vary a lot, however even they still have 1-A showings and depictions at times. So I would say varying from Low 1-A to 1-A should be good, but the strongest Celestials in-universe should still be 1-A. .

Marvel's Comics' Magnificent Mystic Cosmology full of Marvelous Magic!

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Marvel's Comics' Magnificent Mystic Cosmology full of Marvelous Magic!