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One Piece | Pre-Timeskip Luffy Inconsistencies

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Kachon123 said:
Luffy is just as fast as Zoro, who can run at Hypersonic+ speeds.
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Rereading the chapter 107 where that feat took place, I'm beginning to doubt the validity of that calc. Zoro was inside a building seemingly passed out with the others, and then we cut away from that for several pages to follow a conversation between Mr. 8, Miss Monday, and the other two. Zoro then announces his presence on top of the building and after that first panel we have the fodder Billions running outside to tell Mr. 8 and the others that Zoro escaped.

So we don't see when exactly Zoro started moving and when he ended up on top of the building; we don't know if he was being watched the whole time when he made his move because we cut away from seeing him pretending to be passed out, and even if he was being watched by someone inside the building that just proves that he got out of the building without them realizing - not that he got to the top of the other building before they could react to his disappearance. Getting out of a person's line of sight is not the same thing as getting to the top of that building.

This is not a clear enough feat to safely assume him moving 58.23 meters in only 0.013 seconds.
 
Kachon123 said:
Force from Kinetic Energy is valid for Lifting Strength.
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@Damage3245

Is this right?
Kachon123 said:
You can disagree, but just know that you're blatantly wrong.

Somebody with good enough Lifting Strength but insufficient Attack Potency can not break the bones and skin of somebody with far greater durability. It's why the "LS Meta" in versus threads has a hard limit against superior characters.
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That's literally the very definition of what Lifting Strength is for. Bending someone until their bones break has nothing to do with AP.

Kachon123 said:
Luffy's strikes scale to his durability.
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What is this proving? He got cut up, and then he got hit?

LephyrTheRevanchist said:
To be noted (since I don't see anyone else noting this) it is our standard assumption that when a profile has a speed rating, if it doesn't specify one of the 5 different types we rate, it's meant to be Combat Speed:

Is it better to be more specific? Of course, but technically not inherently wrong.
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I see, I wasn't aware of that.
 
Damage3245 said:
So we don't see when exactly Zoro started moving and when he ended up on top of the building; we don't know if he was being watched the whole time when he made his move because we cut away from seeing him pretending to be passed out, and even if he was being watched by someone inside the building that just proves that he got out of the building without them realizing - not that he got to the top of the other building before they could react to his disappearance. Getting out of a person's line of sight is not the same thing as getting to the top of that building.
Click to expand...
Hm?

The feat is Zoro going from the top of the building to the middle of the crowd.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
That's literally the very definition of what Lifting Strength is for. Bending someone until their bones break has nothing to do with AP.
Click to expand...
Get the opinion of other staff members, because you're arguing for something that's never been the case.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
What is this proving? He got cut up, and then he got hit?
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Luffy's strikes can deflect attacks that are capable of injuring him. Therefore, being able to clash with Luffy's strikes means you scale to his durability as well.
 
Lilybitdun said:
Isn't using 0.013s just.. straight up wrong?
That would require these random assassins have Subsonic perception/reactions

The timeframe needs to be updated to new standards
Click to expand...
This is true.

Regardless, like Leph said, it's a needless distinction to say that Luffy doesn't run at Hypersonic+ speeds since Combat Speed is what's typically noted on profiles.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Bending someone until their bones break has nothing to do with AP.
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I am 99.99% certain this is not the case. While I'm not a One Piece expert so I won't comment much on the other stuff: why can't such a feat be both LS and AP? Wouldn't one exert both force and energy to literally break someone's bones?
 
AyOgUyS said:
I am 99.99% certain this is not the case. While I'm not a One Piece expert so I won't comment much on the other stuff: why can't such a feat be both LS and AP? Wouldn't one exert both force and energy to literally break someone's bones?
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Because on her profile, her striking strength is being equated to the ability to fold a man in half until his bones break.

But Robin doesn't strike anyone, aside from when she uses her Devil Fruit to form bigger limbs, and if I remember correctly, she isn't capable of doing that in this key.

But this is honestly just a matter of waiting for a more knowledgeable staff member to clock in, so I'll just wait.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
The first issue is the explosion-dodging feat. Luffy does not appear to dodge the explosion itself. Rather, he dodges the initial attack, and the explosion happens afterward. This means the feat should not be treated as Luffy reacting to or moving away from the explosion after it began.
Click to expand...
I checking the feat in question in Chapter 65 and for its looks like Luffy was actually dodging the explosion and not just Don Krieg's lancer.

As that lance was too far to actually hit him which its why Krieg opted to hit the ground to cause a range attack via explosion, which its what Luffy was evading.

02.png

05.png

06.png

07.png

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
The anime shows this.
Click to expand...
The scene its different in the manga, which usually take priority.
 
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ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Because on her profile, her striking strength is being equated to the ability to fold a man in half until his bones break.
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That can be easily fix by just adjusting her Striking Strength, and Lifting Strength too.

Unknown physically (due of her fighting style which doesn't rely on her own regular physical strength), Whatever Tier/Class via Devil Fruit.
 
Stefano4444 said:
That can be easily fix by just adjusting her Striking Strength, and Lifting Strength too.

Unknown physically (due of her fighting style which doesn't rely on her own regular physical strength), Whatever Tier/Class via Devil Fruit.
Click to expand...
I dont believe separating them is necessary as the arms she sprouts are her arms, just in multiples. Anything that her DF spawns are exact copies of her body. If she spawns an eye, it's her eyesight. If she spawns an ear, it's her hearing. The same would go for her limbs, if Robin were physically stronger, the limbs she can sprout would also be stronger.
 
Kachon123 said:
At the moment, are the CP9 justifications and clarification on Robin all that need to be handled?
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Yeah, that and the Class K LS stuff.

The only other thing I'm iffy on is deflection equaling Durability, but I'm willing to change my mind if another staff member pops in.
EtherealCrater said:
Again, Luffy being fully engulfed would leave him fully illuminated from all sides, this is the exact opposite of what's being shown in the panel.
Click to expand...
I just saw Nami deflecting Enel's lightning, so I'm willing to drop this, since Luffy would still scale above Nami.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
The only other thing I'm iffy on is deflection equaling Durability, but I'm willing to change my mind if another staff member pops in.
Click to expand...
Let me clarify then.

Enel's striking strength was enough to harm Luffy, and Luffy was able to parry those same attacks by hitting them away with his arm.

Luffy's Durability ~ Enel's SS ~ Luffy's SS ~ Wyper's SS
 
Kachon123 said:
Let me clarify then.

Enel's striking strength was enough to harm Luffy, and Luffy was able to parry those same attacks by hitting them away with his arm.

Luffy's Durability ~ Enel's SS ~ Luffy's SS ~ Wyper's SS
Click to expand...
Oh, I see, nvm then.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
1. Hypersonic+ Speed

Luffy currently receives Hypersonic+ speed from two feats.
  1. The first issue is the explosion-dodging feat. Luffy does not appear to dodge the explosion itself. Rather, he dodges the initial attack, and the explosion happens afterward. This means the feat should not be treated as Luffy reacting to or moving away from the explosion after it began.
    1. The anime shows this.
  2. The second issue is the stretching feat. This measures the speed of Luffy’s rubber ability extending, which would at most apply to his attack speed with that specific action. It should not automatically scale to his normal movement speed or travel speed.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
2. Class K Lifting Strength

Luffy’s Class K Lifting Strength is currently based on the force of one of his attacks.

The issue is that attack potency or striking force should not automatically translate into lifting strength. Being able to hit with a certain level of force does not mean a character can lift, pull, or physically support an equivalent amount of weight.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
4. Massively Hypersonic+ Skypiea Speed

Luffy’s Massively Hypersonic+ speed partly comes from him covering his face in response to Enel’s lightning.

There are two issues with this.

First, even if accepted, this would only support reaction speed. It should not automatically scale to combat speed, attack speed, or travel speed.

Second, the scene appears to show Luffy covering his face after the lightning attack has already reached or engulfed him. If that is the case, then it is not a valid lightning reaction feat.
Click to expand...
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
7. Island Level Enies Lobby Scaling

Luffy’s Island level scaling currently comes from matching Blueno and later scaling to Rob Lucci. The profile specifically cites Luffy matching or overpowering Blueno’s Rokushiki, matching Base Lucci’s raw strength.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...


These are all valid. I agree with revisiting these feats for changes.

ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Second, Wyper’s durability being scaled from the Reject Dial backlash is questionable
Click to expand...
I believe the logic is:
  • Impact Dial can harm Nami who has Town level durability.
  • Reject Dial is 10x that.
It's more for support, I think.

Enel countering Wyper’s Burn Bazooka with a specific named technique does not mean every one of Enel’s attacks scales to that same level. A specific technique being used to counter another specific attack should not automatically scale Enel’s casual attacks, nor should it automatically scale Luffy unless Luffy directly clashes with the same level of attack.
Click to expand...

There's... literally nothing that makes this particular technique stronger than any other, nor was it designed specifically to stop Bazookas. Why would Enel deliberately hold back his attack power if this technique was done casually?
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Whether you can get LS off of hitting something.
Click to expand...
You can get class K off of hitting something
But my calc is wrong.

It uses an upscaled tiger's ke based on an outdated flawed method.

I was looking for alternate methods to calculate it but unfortunately this wiki loves unknown ratings so we can just say they're average human for the time being.

AKA you're right but for different reasons, but it's all the same
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Whether breaking someone's bones is LS, AP, or both.
Click to expand...
Depends on the speed
Slowly doing it shows that you don't have the AP to do it but you can with strain.
Doing it quick is the same as AP. Punching something fast and pulling something fast and doing the same thing get you the same result.
For example, if you punch a door and it opens at mach 1, but if you yank it quickly and it opens at mach 1, it's scaleable to both.
But if you take prolonged effort then it doesn't count for AP/striking.

Robin's is fine. I've been looking for alternatives so if the wiki deems it wrong in the future we'll have something to fall back on, but it's fine for now.
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
And that's basically it; the rest of the scaling issues I had were just from outdated stuff, but Kachon said he's drafting that stuff.
Click to expand...
Yeah we working on it offline
 
Eh Pell is canonically the strongest so idk
Maybe scaling Chaka above a weakened Pell?
 
Kachon123 said:
I'll link these in the verse page and in the statistics values of all relevant characters whenever this thread concludes.
Click to expand...
So is everything good here?

Class K will be set to average human, Crocodile will scale to Chaka, who scales to Pell, and the relevant statistics will be replaced.
 
Can somebody summarize what's being changed as a result of the OP? Is it just Doriki values?
 
Nierre said:
Can somebody summarize what's being changed as a result of the OP? Is it just Doriki values?
Click to expand...
Pre-Timeskip Luffy's Class K LS has been changed to Average Human.

Crocodiles' profile will have the additional feat of defeating Chaka added to his profile.

Doriki Values have been updated, as well as Blueno's AP & Durability, which a few characters were scaling to.

And when Kachon has time, he said he will be updating stats that correlate.
 
ActuallySpaceMan42 said:
Pre-Timeskip Luffy's Class K LS has been changed to Average Human.
Click to expand...
I disagree with Average Human, they should be a bit above that considering they are able to carry huge beasts like crocodiles and tigers. They typically take back what they kill back to everyone else so they can eat too.

"(calculated size/irl size)^3 * irl mass = mass of the calculated thing"

(0.91475211608222 / 0.3495)^3 * 200 = 3,585.9 kgs

3,585.9/3 = 1,195.3 kgs each (Class 5)
 
EtherealCrater said:
I disagree with Average Human, they should be a bit above that considering they are able to carry huge beasts like crocodiles and tigers. They typically take back what they kill back to everyone else so they can eat too.

"(calculated size/irl size)^3 * irl mass = mass of the calculated thing"

(0.91475211608222 / 0.3495)^3 * 200 = 3,585.9 kgs

3,585.9/3 = 1,195.3 kgs each (Class 5)
Click to expand...
I have no problems with that as long as the calc is checked and uploaded into a blog I can link to.
 
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