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1-A = Auto Immeasurable Speed stuff

Voidnether

Voidnether

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I'm just trying to prove a point here but it was discussed for a page long that 1-A characters and above are Immeasurable Speed by default and not case-by-case;
1-A is auto immeasurable as they are beyond the speed formula by their very nature (qualitatively beyond distance and time).
Click to expand...
So, I'm proposing Unknown speed characters such as Metatron (Unsong), Yumiella and Akuto Sai and many more that idk the profiles of that are currently listed as 1-A in our wiki to have them replaced with Immeasurable Speed instead in an attempt to fix their profiles.

Feel free to list any 1-A characters and above that are not Immeasurable Speed, but say it was true then we should make an attempt to atleast fix the profiles instead of them simply being outdated / wrong. Once again, I don't even know if this as a CRT is appropriate or that this should be a staff discussion or that 1-A characters aren't immediately Immeasurable Speed. But that's my proposal I guess if these are true.

It will be listed accordingly, if they have likely 1-A on their profiles then it would be likely Immeasurable Speed and if they have a possibly rating instead, it'd be possibly Immeasurable Speed too but that's it.

• Agreeing with the proposal; @Ultima_Reality
• Neutral with the proposal; @ActuallySpaceMan42 (Prefers to differentiate the speed tiers instead, i.e Irrelevant Speed)
• Disagree with the proposal; @Duedate8898
 
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if it's someone with 1-A physical existence it's Immeasurable. If it's someone who has just 1-A stats (think Marvel dudes) then they're only as fast as they have shown to move.
 
In all seriousness though yes 1-A grants immeasurable speed by default i didnt think we needed to put this in the FAQ for you to get that. The quality of their existence is beyond the speed formula its that simple.

If they are indexed other than immeasurable then theres probably some other reason for that rating and you should contact the verse supporters about that, for example
Yaldabaoth
 
Arceus0x said:
if it's someone with 1-A physical existence it's Immeasurable. If it's someone who has just 1-A stats (think Marvel dudes) then they're only as fast as they have shown to move.
Click to expand...
I meant it like physical existence especially here yeah, Marvel has its own Immeasurable speed feat from The One Above All being shown to do this;
Immeasurable when manifesting a form (Sees all of creation and beyond from a perspective in which it appears as a comic book, and is able to act on and interact with events from multiple points in the narrative simultaneously[21])
Click to expand...
Which is to say that this is no different from the qualification of how you like, get 1-A.
 
The "auto-Immeasurable speed" rating for characters that are existentially 1-A or above is obviously correct. If their existence is qualitatively above any kind of spatio-temporal notion or definition then they obviously go beyond the physical formula of speed as a whole (the only cases where it shouldn't be granted are those where the character is only 1-A or above only in terms of Attack Potency or stuff like that but not in terms of existence). As for the profiles, i personally don't mind having them fixed.
 
Mbpoops said:
In all seriousness though yes 1-A grants immeasurable speed by default i didnt think we needed to put this in the FAQ for you to get that. The quality of their existence is beyond the speed formula its that simple.

If they are indexed other than immeasurable then theres probably some other reason for that rating and you should contact the verse supporters about that, for example
Yaldabaoth
Click to expand...
I'm just prioritizing the unknown tiers here
 
Voidnether said:
I'm just prioritizing the unknown tiers here
Click to expand...
Like i said, theres probably other reasons why they are indexed as unknown. I dont work on those verses so i wouldnt know but if staff agree they get immeasurable fine by me
 
Random-Helper323 said:
What is this?
Click to expand...
Basically the whole proposal is to have all Unknown speed characters that are listed 1-A to be replaced with Immeasurable speed, if the quote I said above stands true;
1-A is auto immeasurable as they are beyond the speed formula by their very nature (qualitatively beyond distance and time).
Click to expand...
 
That is to say, i dont nessesarily disagree with this crt but for the future someone should just add this to the FAQ for 1-A characters having immeasurable speed by default unless theres other circumstances that dont give them this rating like being Imobile or Unknown
 
Voidnether said:
Basically the whole proposal is to have all Unknown speed characters that are listed 1-A to be replaced with Immeasurable speed, if the quote I said above stands true;
Click to expand...
Worst case scenario is to atleast have it added onto the Tiering System FAQ, if it's "true"
 
@Voidnether

I don't see a single thing saying this on the rules or terms, and prominent 1-A characters are not Immeasurable. The linked thread and tone also leads me to think this thread is a joke meant to poke fun at another member.

One of three things likely has to happen here. Is this a serious proposal, a serious question, or a joke?

  • If it's a serious proposal, I'll tag some admins to look at it, as this is a Wiki policy affair. It'd likely end up a staff discussion.
  • If it's a question, I'll move it to Questions and Answers.
  • If it's not a serious thread, it's best that I close it given it seems to be ridiculing another member.

Which is it? Serious policy proposal, genuine question or joke thread?
 
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Random-Helper323 said:
I don't see a single thing saying this on the rules or terms, and prominent 1-A characters are not Immeasurable.
Click to expand...

Can you explain logically to me how can you be 1-A physically and not be Immeasurable in speed?

A 1-A character or realm, on the other hand, fundamentally surpasses lower states of existence, with their sheer superiority not being expressible as the sum, union or permutation of anything in these lesser states. They, in other words, transcend lower existences to the point that those vanish into nothingness.
Click to expand...

A way to explain their superiority over "physical composition" would be to bring attention to the fact that all of the previous tiers can be expressed as the union of constructs of lower tiers
Click to expand...
 
As far as I'm aware, 1-A does not immediately mean a character has immeasurable speed. It's just that often times the justification for 1-A also gives proof for immeasurability.

For any number of reasons, one is how characters can have Tier 1 hax without being physically Tier 1. Sometimes characters are just able to damage other Tier 1 characters but aren't operating within the same space or range a Tier 1 being should be. Sometimes, fiction just doesn't follow the logic of Tier 1 beings having speed that is immeasurable.

Either way, Tier doesn't inherently correlate with other stats for all profiles.

I reject this CRT.

Edit: I specify Tier 1 mainly because the argument being provided for 1-a characters getting immeasurable here would be applied to most others in Tier 1
 
Random-Helper323 said:
@Voidnether

I don't see a single thing saying this on the rules or terms, and prominent 1-A characters are not Immeasurable. The linked thread and tone also leads me to think this thread is a joke to poke fun at another member.

One of two things likely has to happen here. Is this a serious proposal? If so, I'll tag some admins to look at it, as this is a Wiki policy affair. It'd likely end up a staff discussion. If it's not a serious proposal, it's best that I close it given it seems to be ridiculing another member.

Which is it? Serious policy proposal or joke thread?
Click to expand...
I'm just trying to prove a point, but mainly it's on you to choose whether it's a serious proposal or a joke thread. The sole reason I made this thread was because if what they said are true, and the profiles are incorrect; Then it should be fixed, that's it, that's my point here.

EDIT: I think it should be a serious proposal by now.
 
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Duedate8898 said:
As far as I'm aware, 1-A does not immediately mean a character has immeasurable speed. It's just that often times the justification for 1-A also gives proof for immeasurability.

For any number of reasons, one is how characters can have Tier 1 hax without being the actual state of it. Sometimes characters are just able to damage other Tier 1 characters but aren't operating within the same space or range a Tier 1 being should be. Sometimes, fiction just doesn't follow the logic of Tier 1 beings having speed that is immeasurable.

Either way, Tier doesn't inherently correlate with other stats for all profiles.

I reject this CRT
Click to expand...
Alright, I'll list you as disagreeing.
 
Voidnether said:
I'm just trying to prove a point, but mainly it's on you to choose whether it's a serious proposal or a joke thread. The sole reason I made this thread was because if what they said are true, and the profiles are incorrect; Then it should be fixed, that's it, that's my point here.
Click to expand...
Berny said akuto’s profile was wrong and outdated
 
Random-Helper323 said:
@Voidnether

I don't see a single thing saying this on the rules or terms, and prominent 1-A characters are not Immeasurable. The linked thread and tone also leads me to think this thread is a joke meant to poke fun at another member.

One of three things likely has to happen here. Is this a serious proposal, a serious question, or a joke?

If it's a serious proposal, I'll tag some admins to look at it, as this is a Wiki policy affair. It'd likely end up a staff discussion.

If it's a question, I'll move it to Questions and Answers.

If it's not a serious thread, it's best that I close it given it seems to be ridiculing another member.

Which is it? Serious policy proposal, genuine question or joke thread?
Click to expand...
But yes, the tone aside on the thread. I'd like this to be a serious policy proposal please. I don't mean to ridicule them if anything with the thread I'm making, I just want to prove whether they're right/wrong and if they're right then the profiles should be fixed accordingly assuming this is passing.
 
Duedate8898 said:
For any number of reasons, one is how characters can have Tier 1 hax without being the actual state of it. Sometimes characters are just able to damage other Tier 1 characters but aren't operating within the same space or range a Tier 1 being should be. Sometimes, fiction just doesn't follow the logic of Tier 1 beings having speed that is immeasurable.
Click to expand...
How would it make sense that a 1-A character being beyond time entirely be slower than someone that moves through time?

Your example is just talking about abilities, which is just inapplicable to your physical state. The UES page kind of explains why it's the case that someone having an ability doesn't equate them scaling to it physically.
 
Mbpoops said:
Berny said akuto’s profile was wrong and outdated
Click to expand...
No like idrc about Akuto, I just wanna prove like Yumiella and the others whether they're immediately Immeasurable Speed or not due to them being physically 1-A
 
Duedate8898 said:
It's just that often times the justification for 1-A also gives proof for immeasurability.
Click to expand...

Not “often.” It is a necessity. If that were not the case, then the character would not be 1-A in the first place, because it would not be above material composition.

Duedate8898 said:
For any number of reasons, one is how characters can have Tier 1 hax without being the actual state of it. Sometimes characters are just able to damage other Tier 1 characters but aren't operating within the same space or range a Tier 1 being should be.
Click to expand...

This is a literally 101 anti feat for 1-A. Like, why are you even using this analogy?

Duedate8898 said:
Sometimes, fiction just doesn't follow the logic of Tier 1 beings having speed that is immeasurable.

Either way, Tier doesn't inherently correlate with other stats for all profiles.
Click to expand...

Bruh.
 
ExcelsisBerny said:
This is a literally 101 anti feat for 1-A. Like, why are you even using this analogy?
Click to expand...
Technically it isn't because of the rules regarding characters having metaphysical aspects be 1-A, as explained in the FAQ:
However, there are ways to bypass this barrier. For example, a non-1-A can be empowered by a higher entity into being able to influence things on a qualitatively superior level. This can happen either by a straightforward power boost, or by means of some innate metaphysical potential rooted in something from a higher reality (This can include both characters who are converted into natives of higher planes and characters who are physically lower-dimensional but have 1-A statistics). In neither case is the capability to reach into the higher level something emergent from the structure of the lower level, and therefore they are acceptable ways to get around the above hurdles.
Click to expand...
 
Mythic381 said:
How would it make sense that a 1-A character being beyond time entirely be slower than someone that moves through time?

Your example is just talking about abilities, which is just inapplicable to your physical state. The UES page kind of explains why it's the case that someone having an ability doesn't equate them scaling to it physically.
Click to expand...
The same way a character can have FTL speeds without infinite AP. Just because something logically should be one way does not mean that it is that way when it comes to fiction.

Simple as that
 
Duedate8898 said:
Edit: I specify Tier 1 mainly because the argument being provided for 1-a characters getting immeasurable here would be applied to most others in Tier 1
Click to expand...
im pretty sure the FAQ talks about this directly with beings that are physically H1B+ being default infinite speed while lower tiers arent

1-A is fundamentally different than anything L1A and below, their existence is qualitatively superior than anything below them which would include the speed formula so by nature they are beyond the speed formula
 
Voidnether said:
I'm just trying to prove a point
Click to expand...
I'd like to ask you not to make threads for that, please. It's genuinely not a good thing.
Voidnether said:
but mainly it's on you to choose whether it's a serious proposal or a joke thread. The sole reason I made this thread was because if what they said are true, and the profiles are incorrect; Then it should be fixed, that's it, that's my point here.
Click to expand...
As a CRT, it doesn't stand and I must reject it, mainly due to being a sweeping policy change that would need to be a staff thread.
Voidnether said:
But yes, the tone aside on the thread. I'd like this to be a serious policy proposal please. I don't mean to ridicule them if anything with the thread I'm making, I just want to prove whether they're right/wrong and if they're right then the profiles should be fixed accordingly assuming this is passing.
Click to expand...
Okay, I'll treat it as a serious thread. So in that case it can't be a CRT. I'll have to tag some admins, who will likely transfer it either to staff discussion or questions.
 
Mythic381 said:
Technically it isn't because of the rules regarding characters having metaphysical aspects be 1-A, as explained in the FAQ:
Click to expand...

If they are empowered by a 1-A entity, then that means their power operates on the same scale as a 1-A entity, which is completely irrelevant to what the staff member wrote. This response was completely unnecessary.

Duedate8898 said:
The same way a character can have FTL speeds without infinite AP. Just because something logically should be one way does not mean that it is that way when it comes to fiction.

Simple as that
Click to expand...

That's a false equivalence.
 
Random-Helper323 said:
I'd like to ask you not to make threads for that, please. It's genuinely not a good thing.

As a CRT, it doesn't stand and I must reject it, mainly due to being a sweeping policy change that would need to be a staff thread.

Okay, I'll treat it as a serious thread. So in that case it can't be a CRT. I'll have to tag some admins, who will likely transfer it either to staff discussion or questions.
Click to expand...
Yea, I think we're already way past the thing I bolded because most people took this as a serious thread instead of a joke one
 
Duedate8898 said:
The same way a character can have FTL speeds without infinite AP. Just because something logically should be one way does not mean that it is that way when it comes to fiction.

Simple as that
Click to expand...
We don't revoke FTL due to inconsistencies with irl physics, but we do revoke 1-A for inconsistencies with the standards. If something fits 1-A, then it ought to fit Immeasurable as well.
 
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