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Brothers, sisters, wankers and the like. Welcome to another round of controversial DMC updates.
This time I'm still talking about speed, most notably one that was rejected in the past but this time I have more arguments to support this being relevant for a speed rating instead of a simple teleport like ability, but before I dwell into that I have to bring other cases.
Nightmare, as we all know, is a bio-weapon, a demon created by the Prince of Darkness in an attempt to attain more power. We don't know the reasons for this, it could be the need to defeat the only other King who stood in his way, it could have been to kill Dante as some theorize but all of that is irrelevant for this day.
What matters is that Nightmare has the power to destroy the Demon World as stated in both an official guide and the DMC 5 Manga "Visions of V".
In the original thread it was brought up that Nightmare should get an "infinite" speed rating as it would need to move infinite distances to destroy the Demon World while others said Nightmare has ranged attacks so it should just be range.
While true, it has ranged attacks and it was ultimately added as just range there is this little line of text we all missed.
"...becoming a dangerous existence who could play a role in the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely."
This implies that Nightmare would destroy the Demon World if given enough time which supports speed and movement instead of one big attack with enough range to destroy the Demon World; further supported by the next line:
"So, the Demon Emperor was in a big hurry and at the moment when this guy was arranged, a restraining tool was placed to suppress its movement"
This restraining originally was a set of runes and tools to keep it static but Visions of V retconned this as now it was just Mundus's chains that restrained Nightmare. The same ones he used on Vergil btw.
With this I want to propose an Infinite speed rating for Nightmare as if left alone for long enough it could go on and destroy the Demon World. Moreover I want to change his Range to a "possibly current level" as it is likely it could also be just a big, giant laser like the ones it uses in both DMC1 and DMC5 (although just a possibly cuz we never see it get beyond some dozens of meters)
This would obviously scale to DMC1 Dante and Nelo Angelo as Dante fights this thing 3 times quite easily and Nelo is comparable and sometimes even superior to Dante.
Demon Kings will upscale for obvious reasons.
Now for the controversial one...
The Chaos King also known as Argosax The Chaos and more specifically The Despair Embodied is known as many for the lackluster game he was in despite being one of the best boss battles so far.
Originally we upgraded him to immeasurable speed with a thread that somehow didn't get the minimum requirementssorry for that we ****** up and eventually got downgraded.
We all know the story, Argosax is a being characterized for his swift movements, a being who can move with a teleportation/instant movement that transcends time and distance.
What I want to discuss is the scaling to fighting and perception capabilities along with movement as his teleport is his main form of traversing the battlefield.
In the downgrade thread it was mentioned that teleport was more likely since, well, thats what it says (lol) but @TISSG7Redgrave brought up an important thing.
This is important because as Agnaa notes down the term in question is one that is used for "rising above", is used in philosophy, and things like that. (I can't confirm since I don't know the language).
Agnaa eventually agreed it wasn't something that could be used for speed since apparently other series also use the term but we are all forgetting something important.
In the scan that talks about this, the line prior highlights something very important. "His ability to dominate the Demon World is not for nothing, instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance"
As hinted by the text, this isn't just some normal run-of-the-mill teletransportation but an explicit ability that was very important in his quest to dominate the Demon World, this goes in line with Red's interpretation above which is in the most literal sense of "transcending".
So the interpretation goes like this. Argosax, a being who is notable for his speed, has the ability to move & transcend time and distance which is a very notable reason for why he was able to dominate and take control over the Demon World, along with being one of the reason why he was able to fight Mundus to the point the Demon World was divided in two (I still don't know if that was a literal torn in two or just 2 sides but that's not important).
With that in mind I would suggest that The Despair Embodied key gets updated to infinite speed under this argument.
before anyone ask those names are canon btw, pretty cool and I'm going to add them to the pages regardless of what happens
Agree: 3 (Planck, Vietthai, Random-Helper)
Disagree:
Controversial:
Neutral:
This time I'm still talking about speed, most notably one that was rejected in the past but this time I have more arguments to support this being relevant for a speed rating instead of a simple teleport like ability, but before I dwell into that I have to bring other cases.
"The wish of ruin. Nightmare given form, the weapon of mass destruction"
Nightmare, as we all know, is a bio-weapon, a demon created by the Prince of Darkness in an attempt to attain more power. We don't know the reasons for this, it could be the need to defeat the only other King who stood in his way, it could have been to kill Dante as some theorize but all of that is irrelevant for this day.
What matters is that Nightmare has the power to destroy the Demon World as stated in both an official guide and the DMC 5 Manga "Visions of V".
In the original thread it was brought up that Nightmare should get an "infinite" speed rating as it would need to move infinite distances to destroy the Demon World while others said Nightmare has ranged attacks so it should just be range.
While true, it has ranged attacks and it was ultimately added as just range there is this little line of text we all missed.
"...becoming a dangerous existence who could play a role in the stability of the Demon World if its powers were to be released indefinitely."
This implies that Nightmare would destroy the Demon World if given enough time which supports speed and movement instead of one big attack with enough range to destroy the Demon World; further supported by the next line:
"So, the Demon Emperor was in a big hurry and at the moment when this guy was arranged, a restraining tool was placed to suppress its movement"
This restraining originally was a set of runes and tools to keep it static but Visions of V retconned this as now it was just Mundus's chains that restrained Nightmare. The same ones he used on Vergil btw.
With this I want to propose an Infinite speed rating for Nightmare as if left alone for long enough it could go on and destroy the Demon World. Moreover I want to change his Range to a "possibly current level" as it is likely it could also be just a big, giant laser like the ones it uses in both DMC1 and DMC5 (although just a possibly cuz we never see it get beyond some dozens of meters)
This would obviously scale to DMC1 Dante and Nelo Angelo as Dante fights this thing 3 times quite easily and Nelo is comparable and sometimes even superior to Dante.
Demon Kings will upscale for obvious reasons.
Now for the controversial one...
The Chaos Overlord Ultimate form: The Despair Embodied
The Chaos King also known as Argosax The Chaos and more specifically The Despair Embodied is known as many for the lackluster game he was in despite being one of the best boss battles so far.
Originally we upgraded him to immeasurable speed with a thread that somehow didn't get the minimum requirements
We all know the story, Argosax is a being characterized for his swift movements, a being who can move with a teleportation/instant movement that transcends time and distance.
What I want to discuss is the scaling to fighting and perception capabilities along with movement as his teleport is his main form of traversing the battlefield.
In the downgrade thread it was mentioned that teleport was more likely since, well, thats what it says (lol) but @TISSG7Redgrave brought up an important thing.
This is important because as Agnaa notes down the term in question is one that is used for "rising above", is used in philosophy, and things like that. (I can't confirm since I don't know the language).
Agnaa eventually agreed it wasn't something that could be used for speed since apparently other series also use the term but we are all forgetting something important.
In the scan that talks about this, the line prior highlights something very important. "His ability to dominate the Demon World is not for nothing, instantaneous movement that transcends time and distance"
As hinted by the text, this isn't just some normal run-of-the-mill teletransportation but an explicit ability that was very important in his quest to dominate the Demon World, this goes in line with Red's interpretation above which is in the most literal sense of "transcending".
So the interpretation goes like this. Argosax, a being who is notable for his speed, has the ability to move & transcend time and distance which is a very notable reason for why he was able to dominate and take control over the Demon World, along with being one of the reason why he was able to fight Mundus to the point the Demon World was divided in two (I still don't know if that was a literal torn in two or just 2 sides but that's not important).
With that in mind I would suggest that The Despair Embodied key gets updated to infinite speed under this argument.
Agree: 3 (Planck, Vietthai, Random-Helper)
Disagree:
Controversial:
Neutral:
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