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Issue with 9-B+ Marvel people

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Ok, so after 8-C got yoinked away (died too young), the street level people scale to Daredevil's 9-A calc of 0.008 tons and the 9-B+ people backscale from him. Now, the 9-A is well and good, but we never gave the 9-B+ people an actual value other than "vastly below 0.008 tons", which is an issue when Baseline 9-A is 0.005 tons, or 1.6x less than DD's calc (for reference, we don't even allow upscales for a 1.6x gap due to how big it is).

So, either:

1. The backscaled people scale to Baseline 9-A (0.005 tons)

2. The backscaled people scale to Baseline 9-B+ (10.4675 Megajoules)

3. The backscaled people scale to "At most 0.008 tons", aka 9-A

I guess any of them works but I lean in favor of Option A.
 
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Personally I dislike assigning a value to a feat that’s based on nothing but our own values for the tiering system, and would prefer if they were just at most 0.008 tons, but other then that I’d probably prefer option A
 
Personally I dislike assigning a value to a feat that’s based on nothing but our own values for the tiering system, and would prefer if they were just at most 0.008 tons, but other then that I’d probably prefer option A
Added a third option of "at most 0.008 tons"
 
Third seems fine for the most part

I don't think the difference would be that big with how upscaling is treated in the wiki
 
I mean, the current rationale almost necessitates it being "at most 9-A". Is there any other set of profiles that is treated this way?
I mean, verses like One Piece and Naruto use downscaling, but even then such would put the downscalers at baseline 9-A (1.6x less than the calc), not an unknown 9-B+ value. If the calc was close to baseline 9-A then I could understand the rationale of 9-B+ but 1.6x is a sizable gap.
 
Could you list the profiles affected? Maybe a new calc could be made instead of depending on downscalings.
Daredevil (Nvm that his profile has him scaling equally to Kingpin, who is 9-A based on his own accepted 9-A calc, though that just reflects how poorly the downgrade to 9-B+ was thought-out/implemented)
Storm
Gambit
Cyclops
Scarlet Witch
Bruce Banner
Iron Fist (though he also has his own accepted 12 MJ calc, so I guess that's what the new 9-B+ value can be if that option is accepted)
Pyro
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Baron Zemo
Bullseye
Punisher (Also has Kingpin scaling)
Deadpool
Black Cat (first key)
Taskmaster
Falcon
Flag-Smasher
Moon Knight
Fantomex
Mystique
Hammerhead (first key)
Lady Bullseye
Elektra
Bushwhacker
Teresa Parker
The Hood
Karnak
Nightcrawler
Archangel (first key)
Psylocke
Azazel
Daimon Hellstrom (first key)
Changeling
Skin
Reaper
Havok
Cat
Electro
Elsa Bloodstone
Equinox
Human Torch
Trapster
Escapade
Blade
Red Skull
Fancy Dan
Blink
Egghead
Doorman
Mr. Immortal
Death-Stalker
Blindspot
Domino
Crossfire
Moondragon
Hellcat
Hank Pym
Heinrich Zemo
Honey Badger
Hit-Monkey
Hunter's Moon
Immortus
Kang the Conqueror
J'Son
Star-Lord
Shadowcat
Invisible Woman
Jigsaw
Jubilee
King Cobra
Shang-Chi (Marvel Comics)
Lascivious
Le Peregrine
Machinesmith
Madame Masque
Madcap
Midnight Sun
Muse
Russian
Satana Hellstrom
Screwball
Silver Sable (Marvel Comics)
Texas Twister (Marvel Comics)
Teresa Parker (Marvel Comics)
The Owl (Marvel Comics)
Winter Soldier (Marvel Comics)
Wakanda (Marvel Comics)
Wasp (Marvel Comics)
Trapster
Zaran (Marvel Comics)

Probably a few I missed, lol

So, would the current 9-As upscaling the 9-B+ just stay at 9-A or would they be "at least 9-A"?
They'd probably just scale to the calc. Maybe "at least 9-A", I dunno.
 
Daredevil (Nvm that his profile has him scaling equally to Kingpin, who is 9-A based on his own accepted 9-A calc, though that just reflects how poorly the downgrade to 9-B+ was thought-out/implemented)
"Please do not attempt to scale other Marvel Comics characters to Kingpin's statistics. Kingpin has been a villain in the rogue galleries of multiple street level superheroes of varying power levels such as Daredevil, Captain America and Spider-Man, and hence should be considered too inconsistent to scale to other characters."
 
"Please do not attempt to scale other Marvel Comics characters to Kingpin's statistics. Kingpin has been a villain in the rogue galleries of multiple street level superheroes of varying power levels such as Daredevil, Captain America and Spider-Man, and hence should be considered too inconsistent to scale to other characters."
Yet they use him as scaling for DD on DD's profile.
 
"Please do not attempt to scale other Marvel Comics characters to Kingpin's statistics. Kingpin has been a villain in the rogue galleries of multiple street level superheroes of varying power levels such as Daredevil, Captain America and Spider-Man, and hence should be considered too inconsistent to scale to other characters."
Yet they use him as scaling for DD on DD's profile.
If you go to Fisk's appearances in the Marvel wiki, you'll see far greater appearences in Daredevil/Punisher comics than in Caps and Spidey, despite Fisk's debut in a Spider comic. I think this rule is more of a relic of the past, when people just... Made terrible profiles.
 
The 9-B+ scaling to baseline 9-A seems extremely consistent when, for the most part, most of these characters aren’t portrayed with a big enough difference to justify vastly different tiers anyway.

The numbers themselves are entirely arbitrary.
 
"Please do not attempt to scale other Marvel Comics characters to Kingpin's statistics. Kingpin has been a villain in the rogue galleries of multiple street level superheroes of varying power levels such as Daredevil, Captain America and Spider-Man, and hence should be considered too inconsistent to scale to other characters."
i’ve always said all we need to do is list Kingpin as “Daredevil level, likely Cap/Spiderman level” as a catch all for this and to use common sense in scaling him (IE hes weaker in the Daredevil stories)
 
I love more revisions being tacked on when we haven't even finished the ones we currently have. Okay.


There is a second 9-B calc that's an antifeaat for considerably higher stuff.
(Nvm that his profile has him scaling equally to Kingpin, who is 9-A based on his own accepted 9-A calc
The Daredevil justification is weird, admittedly. It also states:

Which implies Punisher shouldn't scale when he does. I think the intention is maybe that Kingpin upscales while Punisher gets outscaled, but @M3X_2.0 might have a better concept of what it is.
Probably a few I missed, lol
Run a DPL

3. The backscaled people scale to "At most 0.008 tons", aka 9-A
How is this an option lol that's just as vague as the downscale.

This is stuff off the top of my head, I am too busy right now to go into research, so I'll refrain from voting.
 
I love more revisions being tacked on when we haven't even finished the ones we currently have. Okay.


There is a second 9-B calc that's an antifeaat for considerably higher stuff.

The Daredevil justification is weird, admittedly. It also states:


Which implies Punisher shouldn't scale when he does. I think the intention is maybe that Kingpin upscales while Punisher gets outscaled, but @M3X_2.0 might have a better concept of what it is.
K, though the calc makes it seem like Bucky tanked that explosion.
Run a DPL
Legit question, what does DPL mean?
How is this an option lol that's just as vague as the downscale.

This is stuff off the top of my head, I am too busy right now to go into research, so I'll refrain from voting.
What about option 2, which is just Baseline 9-B+ (10.46 MJ)?
 
Can I have a few par of eyes to look at the Daredevil 9-A explosion feat? Especially the actual comic, because I read about a year ago, and I saw no reasons of downscaling, someone told me that because he got his ribs broken during the explosion, but I didn't saw any of that.

Then again, it was a long time ago, and I'm dyslexic asf. So other people reading will be nice.
 
K, though the calc makes it seem like Bucky tanked that explosion.
With broken ribs, it's in the issue
Legit question, what does DPL mean?
Dynamics Page List, it's a code that can give you the intersecting pages between any two categories.
Can I have a few par of eyes to look at the Daredevil 9-A explosion feat? Especially the actual comic, because I read about a year ago, and I saw no reasons of downscaling, someone told me that because he got his ribs broken during the explosion, but I didn't saw any of that.

Then again, it was a long time ago, and I'm dyslexic asf. So other people reading will be nice.
Ugh, so there isn't really any statement whatsoever on how hurt Daredevil is. He couldn't move the debris around which is probably an LS antifeat, and there is an offhanded statement how there is one faint heartbeat while there is another stressed one.

I will say Cuckoo from ClanDestine also tanks the explosion, which I dunno what her scaling is (who the **** does) but if she tanks it and she's 10-B, it's a suspect feat.

That's my time.
 
He couldn't move the debris around which is probably an LS antifeat
Probably.

and there is an offhanded statement how there is one faint heartbeat while there is another stressed one.
No clue what that even means here.

I will say Cuckoo from ClanDestine also tanks the explosion, which I dunno what her scaling is (who the **** does) but if she tanks it and she's 10-B, it's a suspect feat.
Glubbo shitto moment wowzers. Being for real now, I have serious doubts THAT would be the reason to reject the feat. There's far better excuses than a character that has no reason to scale to DD. Like this calc being the only 9-A we got of DD, that's a better excuse.

According to Impress, it seems that there's no reason to downscale anymore. I do, however, think we should find MORE 9-A feats of characters like Daredevil and Punisher before any upgrades are made. Feats like these ones:

Moon Knight tanking grenades that can explode tanks.
Moon Knight tanking explosions of Morpheus, that can explode cars.

MK is variable, so he's not a very good case, but the point still stands.

We're never getting 8-C Marvel back, are we?
I'm pretty sure 9-A was supposed to be a temporary tier until people actually are bothered to calc feats lmao.
 
No clue what that even means here.
When detecting the debris one character says they detect a faint heartbeat and the stressed one when referring to Daredevil and Cuckoo. I think the reasoning for the downscale is the debater assumed that either the faint heartbeat referred to Daredevil (Which, Cuckoo was hurt worse so meh), or assumed a stressed heartbeat meant something extremely bad (it just means your heart is racing).

So yeah the downscale is jank.

Glubbo shitto moment wowzers. Being for real now, I have serious doubts THAT would be the reason to reject the feat.
I'll give a better framed reasoning right now: if it was not a glub shitto and just a 10-B, the feat would fair WORSE. It isn't a conventional explosion, it's a bullshit magical explosion we are assuming functions like a normal one, and if one of the people tanking it is 10-B, then that dictates the properties of the explosion. It's also not incidental for Cuckoo to be there, while it's a Daredevil Annual, the ARC itself is a ClanDestine crossover arc (whose continuation is in Wolverine Annual. Wow, first time discovering ClanDestine had specific arcs and events) whose story doesn't have anything to do with the Daredevil run at all.

The lowest tier tanking an explosion dictates the tier.
 
It isn't a conventional explosion, it's a bullshit magical explosion we are assuming functions like a normal one
It's a mixture of magical explosion and electrical BS because DD forces the robot arm into a painel that overloads him. Also, if it looks like an explosion, acts like an explosion and affects the surrounds like an explosion, it's probably an explosion. It can also do a lot of things, but it also did normal damage.

It's also not incidental for Cuckoo to be there, while it's a Daredevil Annual, the ARC itself is a ClanDestine crossover arc (whose continuation is in Wolverine Annual. Wow, first time discovering ClanDestine had specific arcs and events) whose story doesn't have anything to do with the Daredevil run at all.
So I went ahead and searched all 22 issues of Cuckoo to see what I could come up; nothing. Well, more or less. Basically she's a mess because 99% of her issues are only using mental abilities that has no physical scaling, her also having a weird variable mechanic that only exists because writers keep writing flashbacks stories, and her only actual feats are either LS anti-feats or durability feats.

First, she's actually a spirit, so she needs to possess a body to do stuff. She got her first body killed, and she got a second one that she uses nowadays, but writers sometimes bring her first dead body sometimes for some reason (I only notice this because of the marvel wiki). Good enough, the only few feats she got were done with her most recent body, so it's okay.

Kinda feats: Her surviving a very low-end 9-B explosion in ClanDestine Vol 2 5. Her instantly being knocked down by robot equal to Daredevil in Daredevil Annual Vol 3 1 (to be fair, she was harmed a few pages before so not at her 100%). Her tanking a punch of someone who was easily handling Wolverine and needed to be nerfed in order for Logan to win, in Wolverine Annual Vol 3 1. This is more dubious because the gello dude was stronger than Logan, yeah, but it was mostly LS.

These above are the only actually usable physical feats of her, the rest she's either a background character or someone who's constantly only showing mental attacks, which she got a few good 9-B feats, but that's it. She got one good show of speed too btw. Still scaling, probably upscaling, to DD in that department though. She also has anti-feats, but they're mostly LS based, like being tied up by some random metal ropes in ClanDestine Vol 1 7 (she was poisoned though).
 
Daredevil (Nvm that his profile has him scaling equally to Kingpin, who is 9-A based on his own accepted 9-A calc, though that just reflects how poorly the downgrade to 9-B+ was thought-out/implemented)
Iirc Kingpin was also 9-B at the time or at least in the list
Which implies Punisher shouldn't scale when he does. I think the intention is maybe that Kingpin upscales while Punisher gets outscaled, but @M3X_2.0 might have a better concept of what it is.
I don’t care if Punisher scales to Daredevil as long as it’s legit. I didn’t want to say that DD is so ******* strong that Punisher doesn’t scale. It’s actually funny that yall thought of that lol Punisher really does ******* ****. Him and DD should be the same Tier but DD massively outskills him that’s actually hard to find proper reasoning to scale.
 
I do recommend this thread should be paused until the speed thread is finally done since they're also related to 9-Bs/9-As.

However, I do wanna give a piece of advice: If you wanna do any actual upgrades, read Daredevil and Punisher comics. Find feats and do calculations. While I disagree with Impress' reasoning, she's right on not using just this one feat. I think this is legit the only 9-A feat of DD that is remotely usable, the rest are either outdated or flawed calcs, like the Elsa stomping the car Rex brought up, it was redone by M3X and we got a mid/end 9-B result. If anyone brings about a handful of feats, this thread would be set and ready.

So let's deal with speed first yeah?
 
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