Lookism: Mid Tier+ LS Upgrades + God Tier LS Downgrades

• 1.5 Generation:
  • Goo: At least Class 100 (Was seen as equals for most of the series and even said by their teacher, he didn’t know who was stronger)
• 1st Generation:
  • Kitae Kim: At least Class 100 (James implies Kitae is stronger than Goo and should be comparable to James Lee), likely higher
  • James Lee (Current Key): At least Class 100 (James calls Goo weak and was able to break out of Tom Lee's hold during their fight), likely higher
• Pre-Generation:
  • Tom Lee: At least Class 100 (Can hold Goo in place and throw him around)
  • Jinyoung: Likely Class 100 (Could break out of Kitae Kim’s hold and throw him)
  • Gapryong Kim: At least Class 100 (Jinyoung says Gapryong, Kitae, and Shingen are in the same realm)
  • Shingen: At least Class 100 (Jinyoung says Gapryong, Kitae, and Shingen are in the same realm)
  • Charles Choi: Possibly Class 100 (He doesn’t have much showings but he is the No. 2 of the Fist Gang so he should be above the likes of Jinyoung and Tom Lee).
• 2nd Generation:
  • Mandeok: At least Class 25, at most Class 100 (Using all of his body strength, he could hold Gun in place for a moment)
  • Daniel Park (True Body): At least Class 100 in UI Mode (When he’s copying the stats of UI Perfect Body Daniel Park, he could grapple, tackle, and throw Kitae Kim), likely higher
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body): Varies up to Class 100 in UI Mode (True Body Daniel Park was forcing his body to copy UI PB Daniel Park to grapple Kitae), likely higher

• 1st Generation:
  • Jaegyeon Na: At least Class 50 (Performed the feat directly)
  • Yujae Seon: At least Class 50 (Could hold Jaegyeon’s kick for a bit)
  • Gongseob: At least Class 50 (Zack called Hashik Song strong and Gongseob could take his hit without budging)
  • Taesoo Ma: Likely Class 50 (Should be comparable to Gongseob as he has strength mastery)
  • Changsu Oh: Likely Class 50 (Should be one of the strongest First Generation Kings)
• 2nd Generation:
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body); New Key recommended called “Busan”: At least Class 50 (Called Jeongseok weak and he was able to break out of Vin’s grip who could do nothing against him)
  • Vin Jin (Current Key): At least Class 50 (Could grip and throw Jaegyeon who even said he could break his bones)
  • Zack Lee (Busan Arc Key): Likely Class 50 (Could grapple with Sang Baek who could throw around Perfect Body Daniel Park)
  • Vasco (Current Key): Likely Class 50 (Could hold and throw Current PB Daniel Park)
  • Samuel Seo: At least Class 50 with Hormone Control (Can hold on to Paecheon who couldn’t break out of his hold and who was stated to be stronger than Jaegyeon)
  • Jake Kim (Incheon Key): Likely Class 50 with Conviction (Could launch Samuel and Paecheon who were both standing on guard)
  • No other 2nd Gen will get an upgrade due to lack of new LS scaling.

• Abilities will stay the same, however, stats will be boosted
• Attack Potency: At least Small Building Level (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with)
• Speed: At least Subsonic+, possibly Supersonic (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with) (731.991 m/s), likely higher
• Durability: Same as AP
• Lifting Strength: Above
• Everything else stays the same

CatLover313 said:

Downscales first: We had these 5 characters (Daniel Park Perfect Body (UI Mode), James Lee, Daniel Park True Body (UI Mode), Kitae Kim) scale to Class K due to the 3x multiplier of Gun Park’s Class 100 LS Feat, specifically, due to statements and performances made in the Hunt for Gun arc. However, these should be removed as the True Ultra Instinct Gun (with the 3x strength multiplier) that was in Hunt for Gun was far from being healthy. Goo states that the Gun in HFG was way weaker than he usually is and even no-sells some of his attacks. James Lee even makes fun of Goo for losing to a non-full powered Gun Park. Now, Gun Park in TUI will still keep the Class K LS strength, however, until there are more showings with a healthier version, no one will be tied to the Class 100 * 3x = Class K feat using the Hunt for Gun performance.

Now for the Upgrades:

Upscaling from this feat Class 100 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Lookism_-_Gun_breaks_chains

• 1.5 Generation:
  • Goo: Likely Class 100 (Was seen as equals for most of the series and even said by their teacher, he didn’t know who was stronger)
  • Kitae Kim: At least Class 100 (James implies Kitae is stronger than Goo)
  • James Lee (Current Key): At least Class 100 (James calls Goo weak)
• 2nd Generation:
  • Mandeok: At least Class 25, at most Class 100 (Using all of his body strength, he could hold Gun in place for a moment)
  • Daniel Park (True Body): At least Class 100 in UI Mode (When he’s copying the stats of UI Perfect Body Daniel Park, he could grapple, tackle, and throw Kitae Kim)
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body): Varies up to Class 100 in UI Mode (True Body Daniel Park was forcing his body to copy UI PB Daniel Park to grapple Kitae)

Upscaling from this Class 50 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Jaegyeon_Na_shattered_the_brick

• 1st Generation:
  • Jaegyeon Na: At least Class 50 (Performed the feat directly)
  • Yujae Seon: At least Class 50 (Could hold Jaegyeon’s kick for a bit)
  • Gongseob: At least Class 50 (Zack called Hashik Song strong and Gongseob could take his hit without budging)
  • Taesoo Ma: Likely Class 50 (Should be comparable to Gongseob as he has strength mastery)
  • Changsu Oh: At least Class 50 (Was able to stick a rebar in Daniel’s hand and have him stuck there)
• 2nd Generation:
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body); New Key recommended called “Busan”: At least Class 50 (Called Jeongseok weak and he was able to break out of Vin’s grip who could do nothing against him)
  • Daniel Park (True Body; Achieving Path + Current Key - non-UI Mode): At least Class 50 (Could hold and throw Paecheon who was stated to not be able to be defeated by Jaegyeon)
  • Vin Jin (Current Key): At least Class 50 (Could grip and throw Jaegyeon who even said he could break his bones)
  • Zack Lee (Busan Arc Key): Likely Class 50 (Could grapple with Sang Baek who could throw around Perfect Body Daniel Park)
  • Vasco (Current Key): Likely Class 50 (Could hold and throw Current PB Daniel Park)
  • Samuel Seo: At least Class 50 (Can hold on to Paecheon who couldn’t break out of his hold and who was stated to be stronger than Jaegyeon)
  • Jake Kim (Incheon Key): Likely Class 50 (Could launch Samuel and Paecheon who were both standing on guard)
  • No other 2nd Gen will get an upgrade due to lack of new LS scaling.

Also advocating for a new key for the Daniel Park (Perfect Body) Page called "Busan":

Daniel Park Perfect Body Busan Key:

• Abilities will stay the same, however, stats will be boosted
• Attack Potency: At least Small Building Level (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with)
• Speed: At least Subsonic+, possibly Supersonic (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with) (731.991 m/s), likely higher
• Durability: Same as AP
• Lifting Strength: Above
• Everything else stays the same

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Powerscalingcat said:

I agree with everything except PB Daniel's speed because we saw the very same arc that an extremely casual Goo was able to block all the attacks of 2 of the Busan kings both of which had speed mastery with a marker pen, without even looking at them, and they acted surprised meaning they didn't even realise what happened until they finished their combo, Goo also just cut off their metal fists before they could even react

Although the Goo that fought Jincheol was weaker than current Goo, current Goo clearly wasn't trying anywhere near as hard as he was against Jincheol and basically didn't even want to acknowledge their existence

You can also argue that Daniel surpise attacked the Busan no.3 while Vin and Vasco were fighting him

Though UI Perfect Daniel SHOULD scale to Goo's feat and above as he was going blow for blow with UI Gun who blizted 4S duo wield bloodlusted serious Goo

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Sigmagoon14 said:

Agree with everything, but I have a small question about Class K ranking. I mean, why isn't it applicable? Like, even when Gun was injured, the moment he went TUI he was able to casually twist Goo's hand so badly that blood splattered out. Even if Goo is Class 100, then TUI should have lifting strength high enough to stalemate via sheer grip.

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CatLover313 said:

The hand-crushing panel shows TUI Gun exceeding Goo's Class 100 grip (plus he does use both arms and grip against Goo's 1 arm so the cheoreography favours Gun too), however, this doesn't establish it being Class K, it just shows >Class 100. The Class K rating that the other characters rely on is due to: Gun in a healthy state performing the Class 100 feat and than TUI giving him the 3x TUI multiplier. The issue is that the 3x TUI multiplier was applied to an injured Gun who was stated to be below his healthy output, with both Goo and James Lee acknowledging this in-series. That's my main issue and another issue is that it also does create a circular scaling chain which will be mitigated if we accept that the Gun in HFG that goes TUI doesn't get the full 3x like they would apply to his healthy stats due to the weakened condition he was in before transforming.

I can put you down in disagreement for the downgrade if that doesn't convince you and still put you in agreement for everything else (maybe some sort of option 2)

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XxZetsuxX said:

So your saying an injured Gun cannot be class K because that was for injured TUI? or smth like that?

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XxZetsuxX said:

Why is it a problem? A healthy Gun would just upscale easily

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CatLover313 said:

yes, he was stated to be way weaker than he would be if he was healthy or basically not at the condition he was.

I have no issue scaling a normal healthy TUI gun to Class K through the 3x strength multiplier. My point was we shouldn’t use the TUI Gun in HFG to scale the others to Class K due to said condition of it being a weakened Gun until more is shown (I was originally the one who made a crt for it until someone else explained why it’s wrong, so it’s on me for the original upgrade).

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Powerscalingcat said:

I agree with everything except PB Daniel's speed because we saw the very same arc that an extremely casual Goo was able to block all the attacks of 2 of the Busan kings both of which had speed mastery with a marker pen, without even looking at them, and they acted surprised meaning they didn't even realise what happened until they finished their combo, Goo also just cut off their metal fists before they could even react

Although the Goo that fought Jincheol was weaker than current Goo, current Goo clearly wasn't trying anywhere near as hard as he was against Jincheol and basically didn't even want to acknowledge their existence

You can also argue that Daniel surpise attacked the Busan no.3 while Vin and Vasco were fighting him

Though UI Perfect Daniel SHOULD scale to Goo's feat and above as he was going blow for blow with UI Gun who blizted 4S duo wield bloodlusted serious Goo

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Pyro9278 said:

Currently all post-HFBD (or most) have "possibly Supersonic" in their speed rating because there is a fuzzy scale on Goo's feat, however if we get critical, he would possibly come more because Johan can fight with MK and he is comparable to Jincheol.

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CatLover313 said:

Downscales first: We had these 5 characters (Daniel Park Perfect Body (UI Mode), James Lee, Daniel Park True Body (UI Mode), Kitae Kim) scale to Class K due to the 3x multiplier of Gun Park’s Class 100 LS Feat, specifically, due to statements and performances made in the Hunt for Gun arc. However, these should be removed as the True Ultra Instinct Gun (with the 3x strength multiplier) that was in Hunt for Gun was far from being healthy. Goo states that the Gun in HFG was way weaker than he usually is and even no-sells some of his attacks. James Lee even makes fun of Goo for losing to a non-full powered Gun Park. Now, Gun Park in TUI will still keep the Class K LS strength, however, until there are more showings with a healthier version, no one will be tied to the Class 100 * 3x = Class K feat using the Hunt for Gun performance.

Now for the Upgrades:

Upscaling from this feat Class 100 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Lookism_-_Gun_breaks_chains

• 1.5 Generation:
  • Goo: Likely Class 100 (Was seen as equals for most of the series and even said by their teacher, he didn’t know who was stronger)
  • Kitae Kim: At least Class 100 (James implies Kitae is stronger than Goo), likely higher
  • James Lee (Current Key): At least Class 100 (James calls Goo weak), likely higher
• 2nd Generation:
  • Mandeok: At least Class 25, at most Class 100 (Using all of his body strength, he could hold Gun in place for a moment)
  • Daniel Park (True Body): At least Class 100 in UI Mode (When he’s copying the stats of UI Perfect Body Daniel Park, he could grapple, tackle, and throw Kitae Kim), likely higher
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body): Varies up to Class 100 in UI Mode (True Body Daniel Park was forcing his body to copy UI PB Daniel Park to grapple Kitae), likely higher

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CatLover313 said:

Upscaling from this Class 50 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Jaegyeon_Na_shattered_the_brick

• 1st Generation:
  • Jaegyeon Na: At least Class 50 (Performed the feat directly)
  • Yujae Seon: At least Class 50 (Could hold Jaegyeon’s kick for a bit)
  • Gongseob: At least Class 50 (Zack called Hashik Song strong and Gongseob could take his hit without budging)
  • Taesoo Ma: Likely Class 50 (Should be comparable to Gongseob as he has strength mastery)
  • Changsu Oh: At least Class 50 (Was able to stick a rebar in Daniel’s hand and have him stuck there)
• 2nd Generation:
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body); New Key recommended called “Busan”: At least Class 50 (Called Jeongseok weak and he was able to break out of Vin’s grip who could do nothing against him)
  • Daniel Park (True Body; Achieving Path + Current Key - non-UI Mode): At least Class 50 (Could hold and throw Paecheon who was stated to not be able to be defeated by Jaegyeon)
  • Vin Jin (Current Key): At least Class 50 (Could grip and throw Jaegyeon who even said he could break his bones)
  • Zack Lee (Busan Arc Key): Likely Class 50 (Could grapple with Sang Baek who could throw around Perfect Body Daniel Park)
  • Vasco (Current Key): Likely Class 50 (Could hold and throw Current PB Daniel Park)
  • Samuel Seo: At least Class 50 (Can hold on to Paecheon who couldn’t break out of his hold and who was stated to be stronger than Jaegyeon)
  • Jake Kim (Incheon Key): Likely Class 50 (Could launch Samuel and Paecheon who were both standing on guard)
  • No other 2nd Gen will get an upgrade due to lack of new LS scaling.

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Powerscalingcat said:

The thing is the MK in Lookism is severely holding back as established in MK's own series, I remember MK commenting while fighting Johan that at this rate he might not be able to take him alive, implying he was not fighting to kill, we have also never seen MK use his knife CQC, wire CQC, gun CQC among other things.

IK Jincheol also didn't go all out against Goo however for me the chain scaling is shaky cuz its Goo (unknown degree of % of power used) ~ Jincheol (unknown degree ot % used) who is relative to MK who also used an unknown amount of power agaisnt Johan

I am not saying its impossible unfortunately the military dad trio are all 'holds-back men' merchants for the sake of story consistency so they all end up suffering from Berus syndrom aka '70% of my power? I meant 70% of 1% of my power..."

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Pyro9278 said:

I think you should also include the Pre-Gen. I know we're just starting to see the scaling in this arc, but if Tom Lee has Class 100 in his Current Key, then he'll definitely have it in his younger Key. Characters like Gapryong Kim and Shingen should also scale, and Jinyeong with his Path.

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Pyro9278 said:

Goo should scale without much trouble since the statement acknowledges Gun and Goo's levels but doesn't distinguish who is stronger, rather it clearly compares them.

I would remove James Lee's statement as justification, since although we can use it for powerscaling, it feels odd to use it in LS. Instead, I would say that James is superior to Tom Lee, who in turn can fight Goo. And Kitae Kim should be comparable to James Lee.

I think there's no problem giving Taesoo Ma a "At least" rating since he's comparable to Gongseob. Changsu Oh should definitely be scaled to Class 50, but only because he's superior to all the Kings we saw previously, in favor of Kitae.

I believe Jake should only scale to Class 50 with Conviction, just as Samuel only scales through his Hormonal Transformation.

The justification for catching and throwing Paecheon Jo should be valid because: Lil Daniel could simply be throwing Paecheon Jo's body weight and not really making an effort to overcome him, since we know that up to that point he was not taking the fight seriously.

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CatLover313 said:

In the Google document I made for the scaling, I actually did have the Pre-Gen characters and their explanations for why they scaled. I just forgot to put it on here

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CatLover313 said:

I'll change the OP using these justifications. Also, do you mean that the Lil Daniel justification is "invalid"? Don't agree with changing the Vasco reasoning as nothing really insinuates Vin and Vasco are equal other and rather stick to the explanations I could find.

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Pyro9278 said:

Not fighting without murderous intent doesn't mean you're not fighting or putting in any effort. In fact, even in MK, Johan is quite glazed only during his White Tiger key, which means that during the HFBD fight, when MK tries to get serious with his wires, Johan could have genuinely pushed him to that point.

"We don't know how hard Jincheol and Goo were pushing themselves." We know that Jincheol was simply fighting at his base, while Goo, at his base, couldn't handle him and had to resort to his belt and Rolex. Even so, in Jincheol's performance, we don't see him having any trouble keeping up; on the contrary, Goo admits that Jincheol is monstrous. So, however you look at it, the two are at least comparable at their base. Whether we have to discuss "Goo Moonlight wins" or "Jincheol Warmode surpasses" is redundant, since they are amplifiers that go beyond the current supersonic feat.

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Powerscalingcat said:

I don't think that Goo couldn't handle him in his base, as right after he calls him monsterous he starts going blow for blow with him with his fists and even knocks him back, I got the impression Goo started using a weapon out of spite lmao

Jincheol just kept progressively matching him every time Goo tried to overpower him (we see Jincheol literally dive at Goo after he knocks him back calling it a futile attempt)

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Powerscalingcat said:

As for the MK, I know Johan got glazed a lot but it was mostly his potential and talent, it was made pretty clear in the arc that MK could take out Johan if he really wanted to, I'll have to go reread their lookism fight.

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Pyro9278 said:

Lil Daniel is simply dealing with Paecheon Jo's body weight by lifting and throwing him like that, rather than dealing with any kind of resistance from him. Paecheon Jo wasn't really expecting that move from Lil Daniel, which is why it turned out that way, but for the rest of the fight, we see that his defense is quite solid.

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Pyro9278 said:

To give you an idea, this would be like scaling Johan to Class 100 just because he used Aikido in Gun.

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CatLover313 said:

Yeah, I updated the post, removed lil daniel from from the upgrade because I couldn't find better justification for the upgrade

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Pyro9278 said:

I think with its Path it should be Class 50 since it easily surpasses Paecheon Jo in its counterattack, but nothing more for now.

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CatLover313 said:

James calls Goo weak

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Foriaa said:

James yapping

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Pyro9278 said:

It's not that he was cornered, but if he had to use weapons then the fight and even admitted that he was a monster (in his thoughts, it should be clarified, not even as a joke) then there is an effort to highlight, that's why they are at least comparable.

I'm saying Johan was getting glazed quite a bit, not that he won in his White Tiger key. I'm just trying to say that the growth he's experienced should be such that Johan shouldn't have a huge speed gap with a serious MK.

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Powerscalingcat said:

In Incheon they tried to assinate Yujae with a gun, Yujae needed to break the gun BEFORE they fired the gun, the fact they even brought a gun implies he is not moving at supersonic speeds like Goo otherwise he would be able to break the Gun even when its pressed against his forehead and AFTER it was fired lol

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Sigmagoon14 said:

I don't think that's really Good example cause someone using Gun doesn't really mean anything unless it's directly stated or shown that they are slower than the Gun cause even Nameless pulled Gun against Samdak and Samdak was dodging via controlling wrist of Nameless to get control over gun, instead of directly just dodging the bullet like hansu dodged without pulling any tricks

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CatLover313 said:

Downscales first: We had these 5 characters (Daniel Park Perfect Body (UI Mode), James Lee, Daniel Park True Body (UI Mode), Kitae Kim) scale to Class K due to the 3x multiplier of Gun Park’s Class 100 LS Feat, specifically, due to statements and performances made in the Hunt for Gun arc. However, these should be removed as the True Ultra Instinct Gun (with the 3x strength multiplier) that was in Hunt for Gun was far from being healthy. Goo states that the Gun in HFG was way weaker than he usually is and even no-sells some of his attacks. James Lee even makes fun of Goo for losing to a non-full powered Gun Park. Now, Gun Park in TUI will still keep the Class K LS strength, however, until there are more showings with a healthier version, no one will be tied to the Class 100 * 3x = Class K feat using the Hunt for Gun performance.

Now for the Upgrades:

Upscaling from this feat Class 100 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Lookism_-_Gun_breaks_chains

• 1.5 Generation:
  • Goo: At least Class 100 (Was seen as equals for most of the series and even said by their teacher, he didn’t know who was stronger)
• 1st Generation:
  • Kitae Kim: At least Class 100 (James implies Kitae is stronger than Goo and should be comparable to James Lee), likely higher
  • James Lee (Current Key): At least Class 100 (James calls Goo weak and was able to break out of Tom Lee's hold during their fight), likely higher
• Pre-Generation:
  • Tom Lee: At least Class 100 (Can hold Goo in place and throw him around)
  • Jinyoung: Likely Class 100 (Could break out of Kitae Kim’s hold and throw him)
  • Gapryong Kim: At least Class 100 (Jinyoung says Gapryong, Kitae, and Shingen are in the same realm)
  • Shingen: At least Class 100 (Jinyoung says Gapryong, Kitae, and Shingen are in the same realm)
  • Charles Choi: Possibly Class 100 (He doesn’t have much showings but he is the No. 2 of the Fist Gang so he should be above the likes of Jinyoung and Tom Lee).
• 2nd Generation:
  • Mandeok: At least Class 25, at most Class 100 (Using all of his body strength, he could hold Gun in place for a moment)
  • Daniel Park (True Body): At least Class 100 in UI Mode (When he’s copying the stats of UI Perfect Body Daniel Park, he could grapple, tackle, and throw Kitae Kim), likely higher
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body): Varies up to Class 100 in UI Mode (True Body Daniel Park was forcing his body to copy UI PB Daniel Park to grapple Kitae), likely higher

Upscaling from this Class 50 Feat: https://vsbattles.fandom.com/wiki/User_blog:Viott/Jaegyeon_Na_shattered_the_brick

• 1st Generation:
  • Jaegyeon Na: At least Class 50 (Performed the feat directly)
  • Yujae Seon: At least Class 50 (Could hold Jaegyeon’s kick for a bit)
  • Gongseob: At least Class 50 (Zack called Hashik Song strong and Gongseob could take his hit without budging)
  • Taesoo Ma: At least Class 50 (Should be comparable to Gongseob as he has strength mastery)
  • Changsu Oh: At least Class 50 (Should be one of the strongest First Generation Kings)
• 2nd Generation:
  • Daniel Park (Perfect Body); New Key recommended called “Busan”: At least Class 50 (Called Jeongseok weak and he was able to break out of Vin’s grip who could do nothing against him)
  • Vin Jin (Current Key): At least Class 50 (Could grip and throw Jaegyeon who even said he could break his bones)
  • Zack Lee (Busan Arc Key): Likely Class 50 (Could grapple with Sang Baek who could throw around Perfect Body Daniel Park)
  • Vasco (Current Key): Likely Class 50 (Could hold and throw Current PB Daniel Park)
  • Samuel Seo: At least Class 50 with Hormone Control (Can hold on to Paecheon who couldn’t break out of his hold and who was stated to be stronger than Jaegyeon)
  • Jake Kim (Incheon Key): Likely Class 50 with Conviction (Could launch Samuel and Paecheon who were both standing on guard)
  • No other 2nd Gen will get an upgrade due to lack of new LS scaling.

Also advocating for a new key for the Daniel Park (Perfect Body) Page called "Busan":

Daniel Park Perfect Body Busan Key:

• Abilities will stay the same, however, stats will be boosted
• Attack Potency: At least Small Building Level (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with)
• Speed: At least Subsonic+, possibly Supersonic (Above Vin and Vasco who Daniel one-shots an opponent they were struggling with) (731.991 m/s), likely higher
• Durability: Same as AP
• Lifting Strength: Above
• Everything else stays the same

Agreements: Powerscalingcat (Remove "Possibly Supersonic" from Daniel PB Busan Key), Sigmagoon14

Disagreements:

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Aksh_sky said:

This is genuinely so bad.

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Aksh_sky said:

Most people here should scale above Igor's class M feat because Sophia was multiple times stated to be 'The strongest of Russia' and 'The pinnacle of Russia' and was even consistently implied and shown to be the strongest in Dead Mansion aswell. Meanwhile Igor literally came there for 0.1hp Slendy.

Infact for consistency, Sophia even talks like she's authoritatively above Igor and one of the reason behind it is because she's stronger than Igor as she's the pinnacle of Russia.

Now Doom should obviously scale to Sophia's LS as it was pretty obvious in their fight and anyone who scales to Doom would also scale to that feat. This would obviously include Tom, who scales above MK and so on with most Lookism high tiers.

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Aksh_sky said:

Edit: After watching Sophia and Aurora's fight, i thing he'll also scale to that feat since he wasn't able to tank grab attacks from her and even was able to flip Sophia. Thus he'll scale to thaf LS even though Sophia wasn't FP at that time because it doens't really matter since the class M feat was also done by casual Igor.

I'll likely make a crt about ts.

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Aksh_sky said:

Also yeah, i do disagree with the crt as Kitae easily scales way above TUI Gun in hfg

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Aksh_sky said:

James literally told to Goo that Gun was weakened just to ragebait him into training

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Aksh_sky said:

Even Teenage Base Gun who fought lethargic Shintaro scales above Zack

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CatLover313 said:

I won't deny that Sophia is above Igor especially with her title of being "strongest in Russia, but there is legitimately no good scaling to Sophia either besides vibe scaling everyone to be as strong or stronger than her.... Even in her fight against Doom, as soon as she says she'll turn it up and lands that one hit on Doom, he isn't able to do much besides be a straight up punching bag for most of the next chapter.

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CatLover313 said:

While this would work for AP/Durability scaling, this isn't how you scale LS at all which requires, reiterating once again, a contest of strength. She's even stated to be holding back and that she'll be continously ramping it up until she says that "Just get Stronger than me" and Doom no longers can match her. Legit no good showings or anyone matching her in LS this fight at all.

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CatLover313 said:

"Not at FP at that time" is all the reason needed to not be able to scale to her. Let alone, he only escaped by abandoning his jacket, not through his own LS. Especially as the majority of his fight against Sophia is him being tossed on the ground like Hulk vs Loki.

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CatLover313 said:

The entire premise of this CRT was that Gun was severely weakened before he went into TUI in HFG. So while Kitae easily scales above TUI Gun in HFG, that doesn't mean it's a healthy TUI Gun which doesn't have any scaling and is the one with actual connection to Class K LS.

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CatLover313 said:

Not even worth addressing if we're just going to start putting our own headcanons into this.

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CatLover313 said:

"Scales above Zack", wth is with this vibe scaling. We don't know how strong Hunt for Workers Zack is, we don't know where he scales, and his only new scaling is just beating up a bunch of Gen 1 King Henchmen. Not saying he's stronger than Teenage Base Gun but I will also adamantly say we can't confirm he's weaker too, as once again, he has no scaling besides VIBES.

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Aksh_sky said:

Ok so? Sophia isn't 'vibe scaled' she's a legitimate path user and is a pre gen high tier, she just never went all out and neither does she goes all out right away, and if anything, that just upscales Doom.

Ye strongest just mean she's Russia's strongest and that also includes LS, and speaking of LS then that LS feat was done by Igor when he was casual so not FP Sophia's LS would also scale to it and yes, there was alot of grappling, grabbing and flipping going on in her fight with Aurora and Doom as both tanked her LS and Aurora even flipped her and Doom seemed to overpower her in LS. Pretty obvious that Doom can wrestle with her.

Ye so? Aurora could still flip her and even though she had more LS, at the end of the day the difference in LS wasn't too much.

Kitae scales above Gun overall no matter which form it is, and I'm talking about Base Kitae here, not even despair or FP Kitae. Gun tackled and all with UI Daniel and even if you say he wasn't at full hp, then still it's clearly stated that TUI temporarily ignores debuffs like tireness or weakness, we even saw this in Questism with Gukja's UI as he was heavily damaged and weakened before going UI after getting beaten by Jeongdu but when he went UI, all his debuffs were gone. Gun's UI is obviously far superior so same should be the case here.

I literally just explained why it's the case, James said that to Goo but while observing the fight he said stuff completely different. This already proves my point.


It wasn't HFW Zack, it was training Zack and he scales to Ryuhei at best. Gun literally stated to be stronger than any King back in holidays arc, and the Gun we see fighting Shintaro was revenge amped Gun, Tom even explained how much strong does vengeance makes an individual, especially when they have it for years, which was the case with Gun. So teenage base Gun should scale around HFBD Gun with ease if not higher.

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CatLover313 said:

Just going to put you in disagreement because your just saying a bunch of vibe-scaling stuff that isn't worth addressing as it's not even substantiated.

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Pxnd_013 said:

I'm not very familiar with LS scaling. Can someone explain how LS scales based on combat?

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Aksh_sky said:

Edit: After watching Sophia and Aurora's fight, i thing he'll also scale to that feat since he wasn't able to tank grab attacks from her and even was able to flip Sophia. Thus he'll scale to thaf LS even though Sophia wasn't FP at that time because it doens't really matter since the class M feat was also done by casual Igor.

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Aksh_sky said:

Fine then, other than wtv i said about Gun, the Sophia part isn't 'vibe' scaling at all as I have enough substance to prove it which I'll eventually do in a crt.

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