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Via multiple statements of being on par with them, many of which are from Fantastic Four. Though I won't use the handbooks claiming the same thing because they're stupid (they literally put Korvac on par with The Collector).

I don't recall this, is it modern? And even if it's not, Dormammu is often A) jobbered to ****, or B) weakened by not being in the Dark Dimension.

That will make a fine addition to my collection.

1. Got it. My boi Doom keeps his 2-A prep (although with the tier 1 upgrades his max prep will be tier 1 for reasons I will explain in a future discussion thread whenever it is made, but his prep that doesn't rely on absorption will still be 2-A).

2. Not modern, and fair point. Didn't think it was valid, but had to mention it.

3. I mean, I don't know which comic it is from, but I think I can find the scan if you want.

It's not necessarily unusable.

I'm probably going to check through them all regardless.

Understandable.

Tbh, the only thing I really wanna discuss is Doom's forcefields scaling to 4 Celestials since he took blasts from them for 28 minutes.

@Eficiente isn't fond of the feat, but I disagree for reasons I'll say in the next discussion thread.

context is needed.

And that's what I plan to provide.

Also, since Umar is gonna be Low 1-A, Marvel is about to have the best mindhax (since Strange overpowered her in a mindhax battle).

Was I tagged to comment on the feat? I can't find my comment on it but iirc the issues were

• It wasn't 28 minutes, the whole plan was 28 minutes, Doom started taking their attack somewhere in the middle of it until the end.
• "Until the end" as in, until the Celestials stopped attacking him & moved on, they didn't finish him up regardless of their threats and left Doom simply knocked out where he was. We can also reasonable infer that they were not going all out by the way in which they were attacking, shooting eye beams at him yet some Celestials not even using all their eyes for it.
• More to it, Doom and other characters knew this was too much for Doom and that he was going to die for it.

I consider it pretty clear cut, it can't be used for scaling.

1. Fair point, was actually for like 16 minutes or something like that now that I've reread the article.

2. I disagree with the notion that they weren't going all out when he was using his shields. Nathaniel Richards even says that Doom's the only one who can hold them off ("All hope lies in Doom") and that Doom "can even give the Celestials pause". And why would the Celestials be holding back when their desire is to destroy everything? That's a rather strange assumption to make. Why do we scale Susan Storm's forcefields to them and not Doom's?

3. His forcefields still did a much better job then, say, Amped Destroyer Armor Odin.

1. You don't know the amount of time, don't assume it.

2. You don't argue against the reasons for them holding back, you just say it wasn't the case because of alternative reasons, as if those alternative reasons had to recontextualize things. This Mad Celestials seem incredibly passive in the way they act towards weaker characters, you could call it arrogance, or a weird sense of respect, but whatever it is it's consistent with their portrayal; That hype given to Doom should be a mix of that, how the Celestials aren't going all out, and how there aren't more options other than Doom. I don't agree with Sue's forcefields holding them off but in that case too they kept up with weaker characters and didn't finish them off once knocked out.

3. They most likely don't act the same way against stronger characters like that.

1. I can go check once Part 2.5 of the revisions comes out.

2. You make a few good points, but I just don't see why a squad of heartless machine-gods would show mercy when they basically want to wipe out...well, everything. And there's the whole "Doom can give the Celestials pause" and "All Hope lies in Doom" stuff.

But we can discuss this when the CRT for this is made, since I don't think we should do this on Byasura's chat.

I read FF #14 and Fantastic Four #611.

Doom has no idea how he survived and suddenly gets Infinity Gauntlets. And Valeria wasn't being entirely honest about the whole situation.

I don't think it's useable, but I also don't think the Celestials weren't trying to kill him.

His shields still held out for a while, compared to Amped Destroyer Armor Odin who was quickly melted to slag.

Even if that's not a tier 1 durability feat it should at least be a 2-A one. via scaling above the Destroyer Armor.

Also make him tier Low 1-A via getting 2 Infinity Gauntlets nvm that he loses them the next time we see him.

We don't know if his shields even held out at all because of the manipulation. We just see a single panel where the Celestials hit it, and get no clarification.

I can double check the story, but I think we get a couple panels of it seemingly holding out.

Besides, Doom was taking shots from 4 serious Celestials at once, when singular casual Celestial blasts were melting a ridiculously amped Destroyer Armor with Odin's power also in it.

We get 2 panels across both stories.

Again, that's besides the point.