What do you think?
-
This forum is strictly intended to be used by members of the VS Battles wiki. Please only register if you have an autoconfirmed account there, as otherwise your registration will be rejected. If you have already registered once, do not do so again, and contact Antvasima if you encounter any problems.
For instructions regarding the exact procedure to sign up to this forum, please click here. -
We need Patreon donations for this forum to have all of its running costs financially secured.
Community members who help us out will receive badges that give them several different benefits, including the removal of all advertisements in this forum, but donations from non-members are also extremely appreciated.
Please click here for further information, or here to directly visit our Patreon donations page. -
Please click here for information about a large petition to help children in need.
VS Battles Wiki Forum
ByArrow
Except for the Speedsters (Season 7 and later) and the Kryptonians, it looks good.
Kryptonians have a Planet Level upgrade which was discussed in this thread and almost accepted but never finalized due to a few omissions and wiki moves.
Things left unfinished in this thread (a few scaling and a few calculations) need to be completed and things accepted need to be included.
Other than that, the rest looks good
Kryptonians have a Planet Level upgrade which was discussed in this thread and almost accepted but never finalized due to a few omissions and wiki moves.
Things left unfinished in this thread (a few scaling and a few calculations) need to be completed and things accepted need to be included.
Other than that, the rest looks good
ByAsura
your links don't work
ByArrow
My bad, I fixed
ByAsura
From what I remember, it's been rejected due to the fact that it was a solar bomb, meaning a Kryptonian in the blast radius would grow stronger.
ByArrow
I don't remember it being rejected for this reason. It was rejected before because it was contrary.
Also more was discussed in the thread than was said in the OP, and a higher tier than originally proposed in the OP was about to be agreed. I know the thread is very long, but it would be great if you could read the whole thread when you have time.
I will create a sandbox for the characters after I release the 2 big CRTs that affect the entire Arrowverse
Also more was discussed in the thread than was said in the OP, and a higher tier than originally proposed in the OP was about to be agreed. I know the thread is very long, but it would be great if you could read the whole thread when you have time.
I will create a sandbox for the characters after I release the 2 big CRTs that affect the entire Arrowverse
ByAsura
I didn't mean in that thread specifically. There was another thread.
I looked into the reasons, and I'll (very unfortunately, as it means watching Supergirl) have to watch those specific episodes again to get the full context. But, from what I remember, the context kind of kills most of those feats.
I looked into the reasons, and I'll (very unfortunately, as it means watching Supergirl) have to watch those specific episodes again to get the full context. But, from what I remember, the context kind of kills most of those feats.
ByAsura
Ok, so here's my contentions.
- The solar flare already occurred and pushed Fort Rozz into the blue sun's orbit. What the Legion ship withstood was diving relatively close to the surface of the sun. Plus, even if it did, the Legion ship is basically a dot compared to even a small solar flare, so it doesn't have the surface area to scale to one properly.
- The Worldkillers used a Black Kryptonite dark magic ritual that involved all 3 of their bloods to terraform the planet. It blatantly wasn't just some tradition/ceremony. The logic doesn't even make sense. Why not just use any sword to stab the Earth's core at any point if the earthquakes were a physical feat and had nothing to do with the Sword of Jura specifically?
- Fixing the core of the Earth (specifically repairing instability in the core) via shapeshifting would probably be classified under environmental destruction, especially since M'yrnn died after being torn apart in the process.
- Rama Khan is the definition of environmental destruction. Also, he was amped by his staff when he caused Pompeii and planned to nuke Central City. Said staff doesn't really have any Supergirl scaling, and could even deflect her heat vision and stomp her. Plus, he's overpowered SG even without using his staff directly.
- The Chandrasekhar limit is the limit of a stable white dwarf. Supergirl surpassing that limit and going supernova doesn't mean that she rivals an actual supernova, it means that she herself was going supernova and would release all her accumulated energy at once.
- IIRC, Supergirl doesn't even scale to Nth metal. She can't break through supposedly weaker materials.
- Both of the planet tearing statements are definite hyperbole, especially given that Reign demonstrably can't (like she claimed in the same sentence) rip out SG's spine.
As for scaling him to Reeves Superman from later films, idk because Returns retcons the hell out of Superman IV, so I'm not sure if we can consider them to be the same continuity just because they both fought an evil clone of themselves.
I'll definitely look into some of the feats, though. Especially this and the Argo City stuff.
- The solar flare already occurred and pushed Fort Rozz into the blue sun's orbit. What the Legion ship withstood was diving relatively close to the surface of the sun. Plus, even if it did, the Legion ship is basically a dot compared to even a small solar flare, so it doesn't have the surface area to scale to one properly.
- The Worldkillers used a Black Kryptonite dark magic ritual that involved all 3 of their bloods to terraform the planet. It blatantly wasn't just some tradition/ceremony. The logic doesn't even make sense. Why not just use any sword to stab the Earth's core at any point if the earthquakes were a physical feat and had nothing to do with the Sword of Jura specifically?
- Fixing the core of the Earth (specifically repairing instability in the core) via shapeshifting would probably be classified under environmental destruction, especially since M'yrnn died after being torn apart in the process.
- Rama Khan is the definition of environmental destruction. Also, he was amped by his staff when he caused Pompeii and planned to nuke Central City. Said staff doesn't really have any Supergirl scaling, and could even deflect her heat vision and stomp her. Plus, he's overpowered SG even without using his staff directly.
- The Chandrasekhar limit is the limit of a stable white dwarf. Supergirl surpassing that limit and going supernova doesn't mean that she rivals an actual supernova, it means that she herself was going supernova and would release all her accumulated energy at once.
- IIRC, Supergirl doesn't even scale to Nth metal. She can't break through supposedly weaker materials.
- Both of the planet tearing statements are definite hyperbole, especially given that Reign demonstrably can't (like she claimed in the same sentence) rip out SG's spine.
As for scaling him to Reeves Superman from later films, idk because Returns retcons the hell out of Superman IV, so I'm not sure if we can consider them to be the same continuity just because they both fought an evil clone of themselves.
I'll definitely look into some of the feats, though. Especially this and the Argo City stuff.
ByArrow
Then the Large Mountain level+ rating is good
What do you think about Supergirl's keys? She's been getting amps throughout the series.
What do you think about Supergirl's keys? She's been getting amps throughout the series.
ByAsura
I was at least thinking of an RD merge key. I'm not sure about other keys for her normal self because, while she does grow stronger, I don't recall any major amps besides going from sub-Superman levels to Superman levels between the start of the show and the end of Season 2.
ByArrow
If I remember correctly, she was powered by Harun-el and was getting a serious amp to defeat nxly in season 6, but they gave up before she got that powerful
ByArrow
Can Barry's creation of a wind wall to stop the tsunami be calculated? That would give him a much higher tier than we plan to scale him to.
ByAsura
Sorry for not responding sooner.
I'll try to add it to a new calc blog I'm releasing tomorrow.
I'll try to add it to a new calc blog I'm releasing tomorrow.
ByArrow
It's okay
ByAsura
I got off work a few hours late, so I'll probably have to finish it tomorrow instead.
Anyway, so you can do something actionable without me and get a discussion going, the gist is this:
Speedsters/Kryptonians
Keep in mind, all of the Speedsters are X (i.e, Wall level) normally, X (i.e Building level) with the Speed Force.Early S1 Flash is 0.4 Tons of TNT and Mach 54.
Mid Season 1 Flash is >0.4 Tons of TNT and Mach 2119. He has a far higher at peak rating because of the tsunami feat.
Late Season 1/Early Season 2 Barry is 5.3 Tons of TNT and 0.17 x SoL
Post-Trajectory Flash is >5.3 Tons of TNT >0.25 x SoL. This is because he's 1/4th of his Tachyon speed levels (I'll explain below).
Pre-Earth-X Eobard Thawne is >0.325 x SoL and >5.3 Tons of TNT. As stated in Flash Back, Thawne is 30% faster than Post-Trajectory Barry due to his superior running technique.
Zoom is at least Relativistic+ and at most baseline City Block level. This is via downscaling from Tachyon Barry, whom he was very nearly as fast as, and the 3-4x faster statement.
Tachyon Barry is >1x SoL and at most baseline City Block level (see below). Reverse Flash explicitly said that someone able to utilise Tachyons properly would be faster than light, but his Speed Force absorption levels were still inferior to pre-2000 levels due to erasing his past, meaning that the statement is valid and Barry does qualify, but RF doesn't. It's also consistent with Barry being in the same league as Supergirl in terms of speed.
Post-Absorption Zoom and Post-Speed Force Flash are ~1.25 x SoL and City Block level. Simple; Zoom was already way more powerful than Barry, and added Barry's Post-Trajectory levels to his own, making him >>10.6 Tons of TNT. This is also consistent with a heavily weakened Flashpoint Barry stopping F3 Tornadoes, and Barry being equal to SG's flying speed.
Savitar, Late Season 3 Wally and Flash are At least City Block level and 6.25 x SoL. From in-universe statements, we know that early/mid Season 3 Barry is at least 5x faster than Season 2 Barry due to the Post-Speed Force amp, and Wally successfully reached a level of speed as far above early/mid Season 3 Barry as Barry was above his Season 1 self.
Season 4 Barry and Earth-X RF are >16 megatons and 31.25 x SoL. We know from S4 EP1 that Barry is 5x faster, and he's also superior to the DeVoe feat due to the Cicada fight.
Season 7 Speedsters are at most Large Mountain level+ and at least FTL+ because, while inferior to Kryptonians, they could inflict decent damage on Magog, who's on par with Kryptonians. Barry then gets a major amp from the Forces and (later on, alongside all the other Speedsters) the Speed Force.
Kryptonians are at least Large Mountain level+ and FTL due to Donnerverse scaling. They have far higher with Solar Flare now, as well.
Season 8/9 Flash is >>>625 x SoL and at least Large Mountain level+. He's 20x faster than his Armageddon self, which is equal to RF, and on par with Despero, who's explicitly as strong as Kryptonians. He also has a far higher during his final battle with Eobard due to positive Forces amplification.
Legends
Pre-Season 3 LoT Firestorm scales to Season 2 Flash through Deathstorm and Tokamak (whose blasts Flash carefully avoided). So he's 5.3 Tons of TNT.Atom is 0.8 Tons of TNT. We know he scales to his own durability because of Deathbolt.
Gorilla Grodd, Solivar and King Shark are City Block level. This took me a lot of thought, but it makes sense to me; A) none of them beat S4-9 Flash while he was actively using the Speed Force, B) Solivar is demonstrably similar to S3 Flash and GG is equal, C) GG overpowered S3 Flash while he was running with a shield, D) their armies overpowered Wally and Jesse, and E) KS is equal to them and stomped Season 2 Flash.
Heat Wave's gun is City Block level. This is due to being able to badly burn Gorilla Grodd.
Mallus' avatars are At least City Block level. This is because they're > KF and Heat Wave.
Damien Dhark is maybe City Block level due to notably assisting Mallus against Firestorm.
Season 3 LoT Firestorm is >22 Tons of TNT due to overpowering Mallus and Damien.
The Totems are stated to be equal in the Vixen Season 2 finale (keep in mind, Vixen is only able to equal them by combining all her animals), and the Fire and Water Totems have matched Mallus' avatars with some consistency, so they're City Block level. This is also supported by Steel using the Earth Totem to stomp Gorilla Grodd.
Complete Mallus is at least 77 Tons of TNT. He's far more powerful than the Legends and Totems apart, and briefly matched the combined Totems.
As for Steel, I still don't really know. His ratings are wrong because SG knocked out the exact same Dominators in those fights. Plus, he's been bodied by DD, RF and Heat Wave/A.T.O.M's combined blast. At the very least, he's demonstrably >>A.T.O.M.