[1-1-0] Rangers who became nobles; Strider and Radiant Hero enter a bar

[noninho]

Ike and Aragorn are limited to Low 7-B (no Andúril, no Goddess Yune's Powers)

Speed equal, fight's at Minecraft's Superflat world, Aragorn has a Steel Sword

Leader of the Greil Mercenaries, Ex-Lord of the Crimean house: noninho

Descendant of Isildur, High King of Arnor and Gondor: Tyranno223

 

[noninho]

bump, after the next bump imma try arguing for Ike despite loving Strider/Aragorn

 

[Tyranno223]

Ooh, it's FE vs LotR. Well I'll probably make an argument at a later date, but for the record

• Aragorn is 5.17 megatons vs Ike's 1.39. It's not stomp range but a notable difference.
• Aragorn doesn't have a proper weapon other than Andúril on profile. He only has his fists and flaming torches.

 

[noninho]

Ooh

Literally me when I saw (iirc) THE LotR guy from this site on my thread:

Aragorn is 5.17 megatons vs Ike's 1.39. It's not stomp range but a notable difference.

Ike has access to Duraneg, kinda compensating this difference a whole lot

Aragorn doesn't have a proper weapon other than Andúril on profile. He only has his fists and flaming torches.

Shall I give him a sword in the OP? Really thought the profile got this covered but no problem if I gotta

 

[Tyranno223]

Literally me when I saw (iirc) THE LotR guy from this site on my thread:

Heh, that tickled me in a good way.

Ike has access to Duraneg, kinda compensating this difference a whole lot

It's a duraneg by half in the games right? It closes the gap a lot but Aragorn's got the advantage there especially since duraneg won't compensate for Ike's own defence. LF doesn't seem to matter much here, Aragorn's is a bit lower for now since it's at peak human (for... some reason)

Shall I give him a sword in the OP? Really thought the profile got this covered but no problem if I gotta

Is that allowed? Probably is a good idea. He just never had other weapons in the Books other than the Shards of Narsil (which is a broken weapon). He gets Andúril during the Fellowship unlike the Movies.

 

[noninho]

It's a duraneg by half in the games right? It closes the gap a lot but Aragorn's got the advantage there especially since duraneg won't compensate for Ike's own defence. LF doesn't seem to matter much here, Aragorn's is a bit lower for now since it's at peak human (for... some reason)

Yes it is; Kinda, Ike's sword also boosts his defense, Ike also has access to passive stuff that blocks abilities (its put as Energy Absorption and Power null); I'm also pretty sure Strider's LS is not Peak Human, but even if it was stating "superhuman", yeah, wouldn't make much of a difference in this scenario.

Is that allowed? Probably is a good idea. He just never had other weapons in the Books other than the Shards of Narsil (which is a broken weapon). He gets Andúril during the Fellowship unlike the Movies.

Wait, he fought against the Naz'Gul that were looking for Frodo with a broken weapon? It's been a while since I've both seen the movies and read Fellowship, sorry.
About the sword, I'm pretty sure we saw Aragorn using other sword(s), so yeah? I could be wrong tho

Heh, that tickled me in a good way.

Glad to know. You did a fantastic job with that gigantic CRT a little while ago, pleasure to debate with you.

 

[Tyranno223]

Yes it is; Kinda, Ike's sword also boosts his defense, Ike also has access to passive stuff that blocks abilities (its put as Energy Absorption and Power null); I'm also pretty sure Strider's LS is not Peak Human, but even if it was stating "superhuman", yeah, wouldn't make much of a difference in this scenario.

What kind of abilities? Stuff like Empathic Manipulation is just passive stuff that is from Aragorn just inspiring "awe" from how he visually looks (and maybe smells?) Stuff like Curse Manip won't matter too much since Aragorn would need to be out of character to use it mid combat (plus he would need to give a sentence saying something like "Whomever holds this blade that is not Elendil's heir shall see death come to them and their kin).

Either way, most of his abilities are kinda fluff. Aragorn's a straightforward fighter although the lack of telepathy might be a shame (though not sure if Ike's Power Null has ever nullified that).

Wait, he fought against the Naz'Gul that were looking for Frodo with a broken weapon? It's been a while since I've both seen the movies and read Fellowship, sorry.
About the sword, I'm pretty sure we saw Aragorn using other sword(s), so yeah? I could be wrong tho

Yeah, in the Books he fought the Nazgul with just flaming torches. They were already a bit spooked from stuff so that helped.

Nah, he never explicitly has other weapons. It's almost certain he has used other ones given his decades of combat, but not in the span of the Books.

Glad to know. You did a fantastic job with that gigantic CRT a little while ago, pleasure to debate with you.

Thanks! Just a few hundred more before the Verse is up to scratch.

 

[noninho]

What kind of abilities?

Stuff triggered mid-combat, but as you detailed there will be none, we can ignore this point.

(though not sure if Ike's Power Null has ever nullified that)

Ike's power null is deactivating skills triggering during combat with him like upping attack or something of the sort, so nah, it hasn't.

Nah, he never explicitly has other weapons. It's almost certain he has used other ones given his decades of combat, but not in the span of the Books.

Hm
Well, it's unfair if we put Ike against him with Andúril but it's also if we put him without a sword. Imma give him via OP and if it's troublesome, it's OK.

 

[Tyranno223]

So both characters are limited to Low 7-B, that means no Andúril and no Ragnell.

Aether gives Ike a good way to deal damage. Triple the attack power and dura neg by half should be the equivalent of 8.34 megatons against Aragorn's durability of 5.17. Not a one shot but a critical hit.

However, Ike doesn't get a defense boost against Aragorn due to the lack of Ragnell, meaning 5.17 vs Ike's 1.39. Aragorn can still do more damage in a single hit than Ike.

But that's just stats. Ike's a solid fighter and has defeated an enemy goddess with many more years on her belt than either fighter here but she was both arrogant and asleep for a lot of her life. That aside, Ike's a prodigy in combat and spent much of his life as a fighter. He's pretty much the one man army of FE.

Aragorn's got decades of experience ahead of Ike and has spent most of it in combat during this time. He's proven capable of mowing down dozens of enemies in combat, going unscratched even when logically surrounded and being attacked from all sides. He was even able to fend off 5 of the Nazgul at once, albeit while they were spooked. He's also above the likes of Gimli or Boromir who could mow down dozens of orcs, with the latter doing well against over a hundred uruks until shot down from afar.

While not quite on the level of Instinctive Reactions, Aragorn's body is also blessed with enhanced senses to detect attacks on all sides and a body capable of reacting to commands remarkably quickly helping him a lot there. His Empathic Manipultion is also passive and isn't listed as being resisted by Ike. It'll be a constant demerit for Ike, distracting him by making him feel awed by Aragorn's existence and unable to withstand being looked at by Aragorn on an emotional level. It's not a crippling issue but it is a bad one for a relatively close match.

Ike has ranged options with Sonic Sword but Aragorn's enhanced senses should be able to let him deal with the oncoming attacks with parries or blocks as he closes the gap and Ike is mainly a melee fighter regardless.

I'll give this to Aragorn by a 7/10 I suppose. The skill gap is pretty close and both are one man armies but I'll give Aragorn the edge here for his decades more of experience. Aragorn also has the more damaging strikes which gives him another edge and has enhanced senses/body that allows him to avoid damage. Range is an issue but Ike is more likely to try and close the gap as a melee fighter and Aragorn's senses will help avoid the damage to an extent. Finally, Aragorn's EM will be a constantly active distraction to Ike. Something he can't afford in a close match up like this.

 

[noninho]

and no Ragnell.

This is not correct.

Weaknesses: Needs Yune´s Chaos to be Country Level and hurt Godly beings.

This comes from the Ragnell page. Meaning if Ike doesn't have Yune's Powers he uses Ragnell with his level.

However, Ike doesn't get a defense boost against Aragorn due to the lack of Ragnell, meaning 5.17 vs Ike's 1.39. Aragorn can still do more damage in a single hit than Ike.

As I pointed out above, Ike's having access to Ragnell.
Yeah, the damage Aragorn's dealing is no joke, still, but this should be pointed out.

While not quite on the level of Instinctive Reactions, Aragorn's body is also blessed with enhanced senses to detect attacks on all sides and a body capable of reacting to commands remarkably quickly helping him a lot there.

Yeah, unfortunately I think this bless is getting deactivated, due to how Ike's Power Null works

His Empathic Manipultion is also passive and isn't listed as being resisted by Ike. It'll be a constant demerit for Ike, distracting him by making him feel awed by Aragorn's existence and unable to withstand being looked at for Aragorn on an emotional level.

And I think this, too, gets deactivated.

The skill he uses is deactivating skills that would trigger on the combat phase, and adapting it to how we debate here in VSBW I'm really inclined towards this line.

With that said, I would give it to Ike as he has more resources than just swordplay, in which Aragorn is definitely better than him, and nullifies the main stuff that makes this fight more sided towards Strider.

 

[Tyranno223]

This is not correct.


This comes from the Ragnell page. Meaning if Ike doesn't have Yune's Powers he uses Ragnell with his level.


As I pointed out above, Ike's having access to Ragnell.
Yeah, the damage Aragorn's dealing is no joke, still, but this should be pointed out.


Yeah, unfortunately I think this bless is getting deactivated, due to how Ike's Power Null works

And I think this, too, gets deactivated.

The skill he uses is deactivating skills that would trigger on the combat phase, and adapting it to how we debate here in VSBW I'm really inclined towards this line.

With that said, I would give it to Ike as he has more resources than just swordplay, in which Aragorn is definitely better than him, and nullifies the main stuff that makes this fight more sided towards Strider.

Ragnell on the site is rated at High 6-A without any varying. It would need to be restricted for the fight to work. A revision thread should probably be made if it can function at lower tiers.

The blessings are bestowed by the Valar and Eru who are way above the range of the Power Null. Nullifying them would also mean biologically altering Aragorn, they're part of his being. They're passively active.

 

[noninho]

Ragnell on the site is rated at High 6-A without any varying. It would need to be restricted for the fight to work. A revision thread should probably be made if it can function at lower tiers.

We can base ourselves in both the weakness section calling out that the sword doesn't has this level of strength without the power + Ike himself not having this level without the power + OP clearly stating that the power is restricted +the profile of Ragnell literally not having power bestowal or anything related to the defense we see it giving to Ike (meaning what I claim about the defense is somewhat of Ike's Skill, not the sword itself, according to how the profiles are right now) to say it is valid.

About the blessings: Aragorn's body is able to function properly without them and Nihil's power null is only during combat with Ike.
Also, if "this magic is too strong to be nulled by anything below the gods who gave it by any means" was true, Strider's profile should have minor power null resistance...which is not the case

 

[Tyranno223]

We can base ourselves in both the weakness section calling out that the sword doesn't has this level of strength without the power + Ike himself not having this level without the power + OP clearly stating that the power is restricted +the profile of Ragnell literally not having power bestowal or anything related to the defense we see it giving to Ike (meaning what I claim about the defense is somewhat of Ike's Skill, not the sword itself, according to how the profiles are right now) to say it is valid.

The Sword has its own profile, it probably needs amending a bit if this is the case. Anyway, how much defense is it? +5 doesn't help much and unless it's a full x2 or something it won't affect my opinion at all.

About the blessings: Aragorn's body is able to function properly without them and Nihil's power null is only during combat with Ike.
Also, if "this magic is too strong to be nulled by anything below the gods who gave it by any means" was true, Strider's profile should have minor power null resistance...which is not the case

Aragorn's blessings can't be nullified since they're literally his body. The entire race that he is has been blessed to be biologically like that (height, longevity, strength, etc). Trying to power null that is like trying to power null a lion because it's got above human strength.

Also the blessings originate from here and here. Ike's power null has not been shown to function on this level.

Power Null will not affect the blessings either way (and again, they're passive anyway, not an active ability).

 

[noninho]

The Sword has its own profile, it probably needs amending a bit if this is the case. Anyway, how much defense is it? +5 doesn't help much and unless it's a full x2 or something it won't affect my opinion at all.

i'm only defending this part because Ike's always carrying Ragnell so i think his Durability takes this into account

and yeah, the sword's profile needs some fixings, but all the points i brought are undeniable

Power Null will not affect the blessings either way (and again, they're passive anyway, not an active ability).

All abilities of Nihil's sort are also passive.

Aragorn's blessings can't be nullified since they're literally his body. The entire race that he is has been blessed to be biologically like that (height, longevity, strength, etc).

i'm terribly sorry, but i don't buy that it's biological making someone fearful of how good of a swordsman and legendary figure you are (unless we're talking about the biology of Ike's fear, but it's not and Nihil takes care of an ability that's trying to make Ike unable to attack (Again, the abilities like Nihil trigger automatically and there's even one that impede the opponent from counter-attack your attacks...which Nihil doesn't let work)). The reflexes i maybe could buy into, yeah.

 

[Franstel]

With ragnell that isn't restricted (it shouldn't be normally since Ragnell reach 6-A only with the help of Yune) Ike would have a range advantages of tens of meters.
With Ether, Ike would have a AP of 4.17 and Aragorn a durability of 2.585, not a big enough difference to seal the deal but the sudden boost in strenght plus the sudden jump could take Aragorn by surprise. Also while only the second blow dura neg, the first can heal Ike.

Ike also might be more skilled than Aragorn, he beat the greatest swordmaster of the continent the black knight who also told him, that he became worthy of his father. Gawain/Greil was one of Dain's greatest general and no one could stand up to him.
From the Ike/Titania support:
"Titania: When I was a Crimean knight, I entered an officer exchange program and was sent to Gallia. Where your father was. On my first day, they held a joint training session in the royal hall. That's where I saw Commander Greil's might for the first time. He took on wave after wave of knights and defeated them like they were children. His swordsmanship was brilliant... The other knights barely had time to lift their weapons before Commander Greil had them on the ground. He was the mightiest warrior I had ever seen. My body... trembled at the thought of it."

From PoR chapter 19:
Volke: Your father was one of the preeminent swordsmen of his generation. That day, after he touched the medallion...Twenty soldiers had come for him. Twenty highly trained killers. Your father barely broke a sweat cutting them down. Then he began attacking his neighbors, those who had taken him in, concealed his identity, and called him friend. He slew them one by one, until your mother rushed in...thinking only to save her husband from himself.

Volke: Greil had lost his wife, and his grief was overpowering. To keep anything like that from happening again, he crippled himself. He slashed the tendons in his sword hand so that he could not wield a sword again. I took the job only because he had become someone my skill could handle. And even then, he was still far stronger than most men…

And even when crippled and whielding a axe instead of a sword, he was a match for Petrine, one of the Four Rider of Daein, Daein's strongest generals.

Ike is, even in the newer games like Engages, called the greatest hero despite the presence of people like Byleth who can defeat a whole squad of elite knight on his own with a regular sword as well as stomp Shez, whom even when unprepared managed to beat all 3 Houses alone at the mock battle.

 

[Tyranno223]

i'm terribly sorry, but i don't buy that it's biological making someone fearful of how good of a swordsman and legendary figure you are (unless we're talking about the biology of Ike's fear, but it's not and Nihil takes care of an ability that's trying to make Ike unable to attack (Again, the abilities like Nihil trigger automatically and there's even one that impede the opponent from counter-attack your attacks...which Nihil doesn't let work)). The reflexes i maybe could buy into, yeah.

That's quite literally just how it is. Aragorn's appearance and presence caused emotion, it's the same with the Elves. It's not a power or anything it's just the result of their existence. It's pretty much like how religious texts say Saints inspire awe.

For instance, his ancestors inspired awe just from their appearance. Reflexes are just his biology. It's how his body was literally designed/blessed in the same way a person can be blessed with exceptionally good health or something.

The "blessing" ability isn't the sort of blessing as Shazam, for instance, it's something that's inherently part of Aragorn's race and being. You can't separate it from him with this level of power null in the same way you can't separate the inherent strength of a gorilla from a gorilla (also Ike's power null has never been shown to overcome a person on this or this level).

With ragnell that isn't restricted (it shouldn't be normally since Ragnell reach 6-A only with the help of Yune) Ike would have a range advantages of tens of meters.
With Ether, Ike would have a AP of 4.17 and Aragorn a durability of 2.585, not a big enough difference to seal the deal but the sudden boost in strenght plus the sudden jump could take Aragorn by surprise. Also while only the second blow dura neg, the first can heal Ike.

Ike also might be more skilled than Aragorn, he beat the greatest swordmaster of the continent the black knight who also told him, that he became worthy of his father. Gawain/Greil was one of Dain's greatest general and no one could stand up to him.
From the Ike/Titania support:
"Titania: When I was a Crimean knight, I entered an officer exchange program and was sent to Gallia. Where your father was. On my first day, they held a joint training session in the royal hall. That's where I saw Commander Greil's might for the first time. He took on wave after wave of knights and defeated them like they were children. His swordsmanship was brilliant... The other knights barely had time to lift their weapons before Commander Greil had them on the ground. He was the mightiest warrior I had ever seen. My body... trembled at the thought of it."

From PoR chapter 19:
Volke: Your father was one of the preeminent swordsmen of his generation. That day, after he touched the medallion...Twenty soldiers had come for him. Twenty highly trained killers. Your father barely broke a sweat cutting them down. Then he began attacking his neighbors, those who had taken him in, concealed his identity, and called him friend. He slew them one by one, until your mother rushed in...thinking only to save her husband from himself.

Volke: Greil had lost his wife, and his grief was overpowering. To keep anything like that from happening again, he crippled himself. He slashed the tendons in his sword hand so that he could not wield a sword again. I took the job only because he had become someone my skill could handle. And even then, he was still far stronger than most men…

And even when crippled and whielding a axe instead of a sword, he was a match for Petrine, one of the Four Rider of Daein, Daein's strongest generals.

Ike is, even in the newer games like Engages, called the greatest hero despite the presence of people like Byleth who can defeat a whole squad of elite knight on his own with a regular sword as well as stomp Shez, whom even when unprepared managed to beat all 3 Houses alone at the mock battle.

I mean, greatest hero seemingly applies to Ike's strength considering that's what Heroes and other media considers when calling Ike the greatest. That aside, the other stuff doesn't really mean much.

Aragorn is similarly a one-man army in the Book and slaughters dozens of well-trained warriors without a single scratch. That and he scales above every Mortal hero of the time. This includes Gimli who can casually have a conversation after jumping into the middle of a Uruk assault, Boromir who slaughtered dozens of Uruks and would have been potentially able to fend off over a hundred if he hadn't also been shot at, etc. Swordsmanship wise he also cuts through opponents before they can react on several occasion.

None of this makes him necessarily more skilled than Ike, my argument there was the two have similar skill feats of slaughtering skilled opponents and being the pinnacle of their time as one-man armies. The difference is that Aragorn had been doing this for decades.

 

[Franstel]

I mean, greatest hero seemingly applies to Ike's strength considering that's what Heroes and other media considers when calling Ike the greatest. That aside, the other stuff doesn't really mean much.

Aragorn is similarly a one-man army in the Book and slaughters dozens of well-trained warriors without a single scratch. That and he scales above every Mortal hero of the time. This includes Gimli who can casually have a conversation after jumping into the middle of a Uruk assault, Boromir who slaughtered dozens of Uruks and would have been potentially able to fend off over a hundred if he hadn't also been shot at, etc. Swordsmanship wise he also cuts through opponents before they can react on several occasion.

None of this makes him necessarily more skilled than Ike, my argument there was the two have similar skill feats of slaughtering skilled opponents and being the pinnacle of their time as one-man armies. The difference is that Aragorn had been doing this for decades.

Then it could go either way, with Aragorn having the lead at first, but a well placed Ether could turn the tides in Ike's favor.

 

[Tyranno223]

Then it could go either way, with Aragorn having the lead at first, but a well placed Ether could turn the tides in Ike's favor.

It could, though Aragorn's enhanced senses will make it harder for Ike to land a hit with the close skill-gap. EM will also be a constant distraction.

That plus Ether doesn't give as much of a gap as Aragorn's stats do, though that depends on how much of a defence boost Ragnell itself gives. Again +5 doesn't explain much for me.

 

[noninho]

At work, so I may not be developing argumentation rn

Again +5 doesn't explain much for me.

I said it but imma say again:
I'm inclined to think that those +5 are taken into account to get his dura where it is since Ike's always with Ragnell ever since he started using it iirc

 

[Tyranno223]

I said it but imma say again:
I'm inclined to think that those +5 are taken into account to get his dura where it is since Ike's always with Ragnell ever since he started using it iirc

Well yeah, but what does +5 mean? Is it a small increase? A big one? If we use game stats it's pretty meh by later parts of the game.

If it's just upscaling off the Rexbolt by an unknown amount then that's fine.

 

[noninho]

Well yeah, but what does +5 mean? Is it a small increase? A big one? If we use game stats it's pretty meh by later parts of the game.

If it's just upscaling off the Rexbolt by an unknown amount then that's fine.

if we take a look at endgame FE in general, we see that +5 is an increase that can be game-changer but it's not that much as characters are seeing 40's on their status

 

[noninho]

may i add you as an Aragorn voter and myself as an Ike voter or is it too soon to be voting?

 

[noninho]

bump

 

[noninho]

bump

 

[noninho]

bump