Chainsaw Man: Is Lazy

[Drite77]

i don't want to derail the thread, but that's not how demon slayer got MHS+

I was told the Lightning stuff was not going to be used and they replaced it with something that got MHS+ with something related to this (A character moving faster then another character, with said another character having their speed set to Speed of Sound because of a Demon who used sound to attack)

 

[Dalesean027]

I was told the Lightning stuff was not going to be used and they replaced it with something that got MHS+ with something related to this (A character moving faster then another character, with said another character having their speed set to Speed of Sound because of a Demon who used sound to attack)

this definitely did happen with one of their calcs

 

[Machmatej]

I was told the Lightning stuff was not going to be used and they replaced it with something that got MHS+ with something related to this (A character moving faster then another character, with said another character having their speed set to Speed of Sound because of a Demon who used sound to attack)

maybe you're thinking of a calculation that's not accepted. currently the only two MHS+ feats revolve around dodging lightning and outspeeding explosions. no stated speeds were used

 

[Drite77]

maybe you're thinking of a calculation that's not accepted. currently the only two MHS+ feats revolve around dodging lightning and outspeeding explosions. no stated speeds were used

Not wanting to delay this thread, but I know I approved one of those

 

[GunshyFever]

Considering all things, this thread wasn't made for scaling Pochita's speed, but rather to see which calc would be more appropriate, considering that the majority agree that FTL+ is fair game, we can close this thread. I'll alert those who participated when the speed CRT goes live, thanks for your participation.

 

[Armorchompy]

Considering all things, this thread wasn't made for scaling Pochita's speed, but rather to see which calc would be more appropriate, considering that the majority agree that FTL+ is fair game, we can close this thread. I'll alert those who participated when the speed CRT goes live, thanks for your participation.

Several people have rejected the scaling logic, if you want to conclude the thread as it is then you can consider that line of scaling rejected.

 

[Eden_Warlock99]

I mean this isn't even a CRT

 

[GunshyFever]

Several people have rejected the scaling logic, if you want to conclude the thread as it is then you can consider that line of scaling rejected.

You are mistaken, this is a Calc Group Discussion thread meant to address DUMA's rejection of the FTL+ calc and to propose a replacement, the majority voted that the FTL+ calc is fair game. So we will be keeping it, scaling logic was discussed but in reality it was derailing. I will notify you when we begin discussing if the feat will end up scaling to anyone. This is not the thread for that.

 

[Armorchompy]

The thread's original purpose is not the only thing that can be accepted as its result. The discussion has moved on and the new topic has not concluded.

 

[GunshyFever]

You and Kochan made the proposal that the feat doesn't make any sense and should be scraped. I challenged that, and haven't gotten a response in turn, so unless there is something you would like to add or mention, there is nothing else to discuss.

All other voters focused on the main topic of what calculation should be used and voted accordingly. There are contentions on if it would scale to anyone but that discussion will be for a CRT. If you believe it shouldn't scale to anyone at all, and would like to speak up, you can quote me on that discussion from were it was left off.

 

[Armorchompy]

I have already spoken up, and I maintain my position that the calculation is unusable because of inconsistency, or 100% cannot be scaled to Pochita. The fact that you've outlined your disagreement doesn't magically invalidate that. Several other people have outlined a similar opinion. I would wager @DMUA might agree too.

 

[DMUA]

I do, yes

 

[GunshyFever]

I have already spoken up, and I maintain my position that the calculation is unusable because of inconsistency, or 100% cannot be scaled to Pochita. The fact that you've outlined your disagreement doesn't magically invalidate that. Several other people have outlined a similar opinion. I would wager @DMUA might agree too.

I really hate to pull a Chariot, but I see why he is incredibly persistent when it comes to responses in general discussions. But no, you have kept your stance, yet you have not defended it. Another user has done the same thing and then went radio silent in response to my reply. If you are going to hold such a powerful sentiment regarding a very important feat in the verse and not defend it or share any thoughts on alternatives or other important topics that need to be discussed, then that is an issue. I mean this with all due respect and no intent of offense or retribution, but I see this as dictatorship.

If you are going to cling so hard to your point in a versus wiki discussion thread, it is very important that you respond and give your two cents on the matter. Make sure your thoughts are clear and do not leave arguments in the dark. If you do not want to handle said pressure, if you can even call it that, then respond whenever you feel the need. Radio silence is not a valid response. Regardless of whether you disagree or not, new rebuttals and context need to be addressed.

Apart from DUMA's comment just now, the only other person who agreed with your stance of scrapping the calc was Kachon. Others who spoke earlier chose FTL+ as the reasonable end and have not joined back into the conversation. On the spectrum, that is 3 staff votes, (Eljoaki, Dale and Drite) in favor of the main premise of the CRT, against 2 (you and DUMA) just now. I am willing to continue our discussion, but absolute silence is generally unacceptable.

 

[Armorchompy]

It's not a complex point of discussion. You believe that you have explained why a character is getting blitzed by something they could so easily avoid as something that makes sense within the story and is part of Chainsaw Man's logic, and I hold the position that it in no way justifies such a massive inconsistency. There is no world in which Pochita wouldn't easily see that coming, and the idea that he was holding back from FTL all the way down to Superhuman is in itself ridiculous. I am incapable of elaborating much further on this discussion point because it's extremely simple. You can't justify this kind of thing as "this is just how the verse treats characters not going all-out" and I don't have the responsibility to oblige your stonewalling indefinitely.

 

[Breadbear83]

It's not a complex point of discussion. You believe that you have explained why a character is getting blitzed by something they could so easily avoid as something that makes sense within the story and is part of Chainsaw Man's logic, and I hold the position that it in no way justifies such a massive inconsistency. There is no world in which Pochita wouldn't easily see that coming, and the idea that he was holding back from FTL all the way down to Superhuman is in itself ridiculous. I am incapable of elaborating much further on this discussion point because it's extremely simple. You can't justify this kind of thing as "this is just how the verse treats characters not going all-out" and I don't have the responsibility to oblige your stonewalling indefinitely.

the supersonic Pochita Calc essentially guesses that Super Sonic is his max speed for the calc instead of Massively Hypersonic from his other feats so it doesnt end up in calc stacking, if Pochita scales from Super Sonic quanxi statement, then Yoru´s movement and reaction speed would be transonic at best (as she couldnt keep up with base quanxi speed a few chapters earlier), and in the feat we are talking about, while Pochita has his chainsaws centimeters away to kill Yoru, Yoru has a long time to think if to Weaponize Gun and Tank or not, even moving her arms a bit higher and her hair going up when she now starts thinking on weaponizing them, and even when the Gun gaunlet Bang Hit Pochita and moved him a Few meters away from the impact, Yoru almost entirely got up

this just shows, a Yoru who previously got blitzed by Pochita the last chapter, Now SEEMS to have similar or higher Reaction and movement speed than pochita, for this to make sense, Pochita would need to be holding back for Yoru to SEEM to be faster than him

rather than see it as Pochita holding back from FTL to Super human, see it as Pochita holding back from Super Sonic (The speed he could have from statements scaling from quanxi) to either superhuman or a bit higher, the statement scaling to supersonicits still valid, but considering proof that a Yoru is at most transonic for the calc, and seemed faster in reaction and movement than pochita, then the speed Pochita was moving is below transonic

its a whole different subject if agreeing with Gunshyfever reasons to still scale Pochita to Yorus weaponization, therefore if scaling him to FTL or not

i show Yoru still moving when pochita was about to kill her in this imgur post

 

[Therefir]

Armorchompy's points make sense to me.

I disagree with the calc.

 

[GunshyFever]

It's not a complex point of discussion. You believe that you have explained why a character is getting blitzed by something they could so easily avoid as something that makes sense within the story and is part of Chainsaw Man's logic, and I hold the position that it in no way justifies such a massive inconsistency. There is no world in which Pochita wouldn't easily see that coming, and the idea that he was holding back from FTL all the way down to Superhuman is in itself ridiculous. I am incapable of elaborating much further on this discussion point because it's extremely simple. You can't justify this kind of thing as "this is just how the verse treats characters not going all-out" and I don't have the responsibility to oblige your stonewalling indefinitely.

I'm actually glad I encouraged you to share the reason behind your disagreement in detail, as it seems I was the one who was mistaken here. I was confusing calcs with in verse speed ratings and assumptions in my prior arguments. Yeah, I no longer agree with the calc on that matter. However, in the interest of things, I will make a proposal as a way to tie the knot.

1. We rate the attack as SOL, considering how fast it could traverse an intercontinental distance canonically, so that in verse matchups her summoning speed is not undermined. And Pochita will be treated as Rel+ in this scenario, which should be enough to actually stop the attack as he does in the future.
2. Treat the feat as inconsistent and move on, ignore any scaling regarding this feat.

@Armorchompy, if you are comfortable or allowed, could you ping prior participants to take part in this new consensus?

 

[Armorchompy]

I'm actually glad I encouraged you to share the reason behind your disagreement in detail, as it seems I was the one who was mistaken here. I was confusing calcs with in verse speed ratings and assumptions in my prior arguments. Yeah, I no longer agree with the calc on that matter. However, in the interest of things, I will make a proposal as a way to tie the knot.

1. We rate the attack as SOL, considering how fast it could traverse an intercontinental distance canonically, so that in verse matchups her summoning speed is not undermined. And Pochita will be treated as Rel+ in this scenario, which should be enough to actually stop the attack as he does in the future.

This kind of thing can't be assumed, and even if it could taking a random speed value rather than calculating it doesn't remove the contextual problems. IMO either the speed is solely an attack speed thing with no scaling to combat speed (either from pochita or yoru) or it's just not really usable. I mean, I think the moon flag thing probably gets in the same ballpark anyways, and you can just use that to scale speed.

1. Treat the feat as inconsistent and move on, ignore any scaling regarding this feat.

Are you listing these as two potential options? Because the first thing you said is scaling using the feat.

 

[GunshyFever]

This kind of thing can't be assumed, and even if it could taking a random speed value rather than calculating it doesn't remove the contextual problems. IMO either the speed is solely an attack speed thing with no scaling to combat speed (either from pochita or yoru) or it's just not really usable. I mean, I think the moon flag thing probably gets in the same ballpark anyways, and you can just use that to scale speed.

Figured, I guess we can choose the former and treat Pochita intercepting it as an outlier while keeping it as her weaponization speed.

Are you listing these as two potential options? Because the first thing you said is scaling using the feat.

Yeah, on my end it was a list of two options.

 

[Armorchompy]

Figured, I guess we can choose the former and treat Pochita intercepting it as an outlier while keeping it as her weaponization speed.

That seems ok. You can make the thread you were talking about now.

 

[GunshyFever]

That's gonna take a bit longer considering we have a few more calcs which need evaluating for the lower teirs. I'm planning to make a complete verse speed CRT considering most of our speed values are outdated.

 

[GunshyFever]

That seems ok. You can make the thread you were talking about now.

The thread has been created. It covers multiple aspects of overall verse speed. It would be nice if I got some opinions from those who took part in the discussion here.

Chainsaw Man: Speed CRT + More

Introduction This is the long awaited CSM CRT where I will be covering the verse's speed calc's and scaling while also doing some removals of other calcs whether they involve speed or not. For the beginning of this, it is important that you, the reader, understand the verse's power system, that...

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