Dante vs Neon White… again… but different

[AnonymousStandUser]

So fighting Dante from the Devil May Cry series is a nightmare, thank god that thread didn’t go anywhere, so… Dante from Netflix will do.

Rules

• Neon White is 8-C, Dante starts in full DT (he also has Devil Sword Sparda)
• Speed is equalised
• Fight takes place in Dante’s office
• Distance between then is 10 meters
• SBA for the rest

“I’m drawing at a complete blank here” - Dante:

“You can’t be a true gamer if you only ever play on easy mode” - White:

“[I am lightning… the rain transformed]” - Inconclusive:

 

[Random-Helper323]

Neon White has the AP advantage (1.1 vs 0.8 tons) and if Nante returns to base it becomes completely one-sided from there.

White has wincons like outlasting Nante's DT, overpowering him, and landing fatal wounds. Nante for his part has High-Low regeneration, which means basically that nothing short of severe dismemberment or decapitation will bring him down. So Nante can afford to recklessly throw it all in to try to take White down while the same isn't really true in reverse.

How skilled is White, and what kind of fighting style does he have? Nante is a skilled fighter who can fight large groups of unskilled enemies without getting hit, and uses a wide sweeping and spinning sword style reminiscent of an Indian Rajput. That means it's suited to multiple enemies and packs a good deal of power and a high rate of attack with the trade-off of lacking precision and leaving openings that can be exploited by a precise fighter. The openings don't matter too much with his High-Low regeneration, so that makes sense.

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

High-Low regeneration, which means basically that nothing short of severe dismemberment or decapitation will bring him down.

How skilled is White, and what kind of fighting style does he have?

Well when watching the opening for Neon White, White is capable of slicing through a giant demon in seconds and blitzing a hoard of demons with Fireball (0:34 and 0:46 seconds into the video).

As for skill and fighting style, with the range given, White will start off with his Katana, he can reflect projectiles and even pull a V1 and just slash at his own Purify bomb to go faster and do more damage by 3x, White prefers swords over guns and believes that he can overpower any firearm with his sword technique's alone. If they get into a gun fight, White’s got Nante beat there too, Superhuman Precision plus years of training in Marksmanship, White will shoot Nante’s bullets out the air.

 

[Drite77]

Neon White can literally one shot Dante, stomp

 

[Drite77]

You also unequalized speed, how do you think Dante is even going to fight someone with Hypersonic+ perception speed?

I'm going to ask for someone to close this

 

[Random-Helper323]

Neon White can literally one shot Dante, stomp

1.1 vs 0.8 isn't a one shot difference, especially with High-Low regeneration involved.

 

[Drite77]

1.1 vs 0.8 isn't a one shot difference, especially with High-Low regeneration involved.

Dante doesn't have 0.8 dura with his DT eyes, he has 9-A

 

[Random-Helper323]

Dante doesn't have 0.8 dura with his DT eyes, he has 9-A

In that case he needs to start in DT. Although I'd wonder why DT eyes is a glass cannon like that. That regeneration might still keep him in the game.

 

[Drite77]

Although I'd wonder why DT eyes is a glass cannon like that.

If you mean in the profile, Dante is one shot by the Mutated Rabbit with his DT eyes but can perfectly match in power, if you mean in the series, I don't know.

Regardless, Speed should also be equalized because this Neon fella can literally see Dante's movements in slow motion with his perception speed

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

Speed should also be equalized

Yeah I’ll do that plus change it to Dante starting in full DT

 

[Random-Helper323]

Okay, so Nante's wincon is to take down White using a reckless aggressive attack, relying on his regeneration to allow him to endure the wounds. White's wincon is either outlasting the DT or landing a fatal blow that Nante can't regenerate from. How well will White handle being bombarded with wide sweeps?

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

How well will White handle being bombarded with wide sweeps?

That requires LS right ? If so then I guess if White gets hit or tries to sword clash with Dante he loses. However White can easily dodge this, he can already easily dodge incoming projectiles mid-air, his hypermobility is what’s saving from Dante’s wide sweeps

 

[Drite77]

Ok, so, Neon White is 1.1 Tons while Dante is >0.83 Tons, so the their AP and Dura are fairly even DSS is not on his standard equipment, but he probably should have access to it considering he has the two things that can form it and he knows how to do it.

One thing I'll note, is this

If they get into a gun fight, White’s got Nante beat there too, Superhuman Precision plus years of training in Marksmanship, White will shoot Nante’s bullets out the air.

Dante and Lady (Who he is pretty similar in terms of gun skills) have similar feats to those of Neon White's, their gun skills shouldn't have a gap, at least not as big as you're making it out to be. Dante's gun feats include: he shootsing a demon while moving and when said demon is holding a hostage in his face, shooting a lightbulb without even looking at it, shooting Lady's foot gear while trying not to hit her, shooting a small pipe while wall-running, when Lady shoots a small target from very far away with a single bullet and when Lady hits two small moving target while driving a car with a single bullet for each. Those are all pretty similar to what Neon White has. Regardless, if it does come to gun and range fighting (Improbable considering the two fighters), Neon does have the advantage as, unlike Dante, his gun don't break when he uses them, and it is very likely for Dante's gun to break, specially in DT.

In terms of actual skill with swords, they shouldn't be that far off, I didn't see anything that would make Neon White's skill as comparable to Dante but I'll give the benefit of the doubt considering it is a game and skill feats are hard to show there (If you take only gameplay, most sword fighters are bad sword fighters), and I'll also say it is useless to compare Dante's fighting style to an actual existant one, it is very unlikely anybody did any research when making said Fighting Styles and just animated things that looked cool, Dante's feats should be taken as they are, fighting a bunch of people without getting hit while fighting a more skilled fighter and with a portion of the fight being when Dante was holding his breath, which is something that is very sleeped upon.

However, one needs to note the massive LS difference between them (249 Tons vs >18412 Tons), it is over 70x, a sword clash will easily result in Dante overpowering Neon White and either damaging him with a big slash, disarming him, or likely both. Neon doesn't look human, so Dante wouldn't have mercy on him either, so that is out of the question.

Neon White wouldn't really be able to escape Dante, they are both pretty great acrobats and Dante can fly, maintaining the close range gap is very much a given. The other NW's abilities don't seem worth noting in the battle either as I don't think they would give him any edge (If they'll start in range and NW can't really win against Dante in CqC, he won't be able to parry his bomb without his sword) and, of course, Dante's regen helps him staying in the fight for longer.

Overall, I would give this to Dante more often then not

 

[Random-Helper323]

I'll also say it is useless to compare Dante's fighting style to an actual existant one, it is very unlikely anybody did any research when making said Fighting Styles and just animated things that looked cool

We can look at skill level and fighting style as two different things. It's actually very common for authors to apply sword techniques they're familiar with to foreign swords. This is why you see characters in Japanese works wielding a European sword in the same fashion as a katana. In this case, it strikes me as interesting that the spinning whirling blade style of Nante closely resembles the Indian Rajput fighting with the khanda. Like it or not, that's the fighting style we see him use, and it actually doesn't conflict with skill narratives at all. Rajput warriors were skilled as all hell with those swords, and the fighting style is a real one, just with superhuman moves thrown in.

Dante's feats should be taken as they are

They are. His use of a certain fighting style doesn't negate a skill feat. It is however true that some fighting styles have advantages and disadvantages. Rajput style combat has a lot of power, a high rate of attack,

while fighting a more skilled fighter

I must raise a concern. We're assuming Cavaliere is skilled without much evidence. Just because he uses a sword and wears fancy armour doesn't mean he's highly skilled.

and with a portion of the fight being when Dante was holding his breath, which is something that is very sleeped upon.

That's still as much about stamina and power as anything. It would also appear these enemies were a bit slower than him.

 

[Drite77]

In this case, it strikes me as interesting that the spinning whirling blade style of Nante closely resembles the Indian Rajput fighting with the khanda. Like it or not, that's the fighting style we see him use, and it actually doesn't conflict with skill narratives at all. Rajput warriors were skilled as all hell with those swords, and the fighting style is a real one, just with superhuman moves thrown in

You see, here is the thing, you're trying to equate Dante's style to something it exist IRL, that is not something one can actually do, unless it is outright stated, just confirming Dante's style has the same disadvantages as ones that exist IRL, without providing any source that indicates it was based on that, doesn't hold a lot of weight imo.

I must raise a concern. We're assuming Cavaliere is skilled without much evidence. Just because he uses a sword and wears fancy armour doesn't mean he's highly skilled.

He doesn't seem far behind Dante normally.

That's still as much about stamina and power as anything. It would also appear these enemies were a bit slower than him.

It should still be noted, holding your breath and fighting doesn't seem that easy. And about the last, they were able to tag Lady pretty easily, so they shouldn't be that much slower

 

[Random-Helper323]

You see, here is the thing, you're trying to equate Dante's style to something it exist IRL, that is not something one can actually do, unless it is outright stated, just confirming Dante's style has the same disadvantages as ones that exist IRL, without providing any source that indicates it was based on that, doesn't hold a lot of weight imo.

Regardless of what it's based on, that is the fighting style we've seen him use. It can be Indian Rajput, Japanese Samurai, European swordsmanship or Martian Antenna Dancing, I don't care. We see him use wide spinning sweeps. If we have to ignore what moves we see the character uses unless there's a director statement about fighting style, then we might as well also dismiss all feats and pixel calculations unless the author has expressly stated something. It doesn't contradict skill showings, it's just the fighting style we see him use. If that's just more bad writing, it still doesn't matter.

It should still be noted, holding your breath and fighting doesn't seem that easy.

It's about stamina more than skill. How much you need to breathe is to do with stamina. So it means he has that skill while holding back on stamina. Divers do that kind of breath holding.

 

[Drite77]

It can be Indian Rajput, Japanese Samurai, European swordsmanship or Martian Antenna Dancing, I don't care. We see him use wide spinning sweeps. If we have to ignore what moves we see the character uses unless there's a director statement about fighting style, then we might as well also dismiss all feats and pixel calculations unless the author has expressly stated something. It doesn't contradict skill showings, it's just the fighting style we see him use. If that's just more bad writing, it still doesn't matter.

Thing is that is literally never taken into account on the wiki, if we take showings as literal as that, the same 'disadvantages' would be poked in every single anime and manga, as their skill sets have clear disadvantages that will be never be taken itno account, so I don't see why Dante has "special privilege" when it comes to that but not others.

It's about stamina more than skill. How much you need to breathe is to do with stamina. So it means he has that skill while holding back on stamina. Divers do that kind of breath holding.

Ok

 

[Random-Helper323]

Thing is that is literally never taken into account on the wiki

Mostly because most people don't think about that stuff. If we're allowed to acknowledge Yang Long Xiao's alleged weakness to kicks which is literally never shown, we should be allowed to see what fighting styles the character is actually shown using.

if we take showings as literal as that, the same 'disadvantages' would be poked in every single anime and manga, as their skill sets have clear disadvantages

Yes, they do. Characters like Juliet Starling leave huge openings in wide sweeps with a heavy blade. A precise fighter could take advantage of that. This sort of thing is basically the entire set-up for fighting styles in games like Soul Calibur.

that will be never be taken itno account

Doesn't mean I'm not allowed to analyse it for a thread.

so I don't see why Dante has "special privilege" when it comes to that but not others.

Just because you haven't seen me analyse other characters' fighting styles doesn't mean this is targeted. I've delivered a far more scathing analysis of Homelander's fighting style. You're touchy about me likening Nante to warriors who were genuinely successful and impressive, when I likened Homelander's moves to drunks, kindergarteners and gorillas.

Believe it or not, this comes from a place of caring about fighting styles, not hatred. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought up Rajput warriors, who were awesome, and would have instead said the moves were clunky. Most real fighting styles don't use moves like that, and you wouldn't have known there was a real group of warriors with a similar style who used it to great effect.

 

[Drite77]

Just because you haven't seen me analyse other characters' fighting styles doesn't mean this is targeted. I've delivered a far more scathing analysis of Homelander's fighting style. You're touchy about me likening Nante to warriors who were genuinely successful and impressive, when I likened Homelander's moves to drunks, kindergarteners and gorillas.

Believe it or not, this comes from a place of caring about fighting styles, not hatred. Otherwise I wouldn't have brought up Rajput warriors, who were awesome, and would have instead said the moves were clunky. Most real fighting styles don't use moves like that, and you wouldn't have known there was a real group of warriors with a similar style who used it to great effect.

I didn't mean to imply it was something you did, but rather just something I've never seen outside of matched involving Dante. It's just hard to actually take this statements seriously when they are mostly ignored by everybody here, and as long as it continues to be like that, I don't see why this argument should be used for Dante when it is clear nobody else treats characters like that, it is neat you do, but it is not how vs matches are done here

 

[Random-Helper323]

It's just hard to actually take this statements seriously when they are mostly ignored by everybody here

Not really. What happens is you dismiss me for making the analysis, DMC supporters aren't here to begin with, and ultimately the fighting style isn't a major factor because the openings it leaves are looked after by his High-Low regeneration, so small openings will only be a factor if the enemy can kill him with a small wound via some hax and also uses a precise fighting style (Akame for example). It's not like Homelander bringing drunken kindergarten gorilla moves to a fight and getting skill stomped.

and as long as it continues to be like that, I don't see why this argument should be used for Dante when it is clear nobody else treats characters like that, it is neat you do, but it is not how vs matches are done here

Combat skills and tactics get analysed all the time, it's just most people don't look that deeply. Doesn't make it unreasonable.

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

The other NW's abilities don't seem worth noting in the battle

I disagree White has Fireball and Godspeed which will blitz Dante when in range, also he can always chain together discard abilities. For example Fireball and Elevate(12:43) for essentially for a more vertical reach while simultaneously attacking or even Godspeed and Stomp to blitz and stomp Dante back down to the ground

Dante can fly

Not a problem for White since he’s already fought and beaten a character who does that, Neon Green.

If they get into a gun fight

That’s not happening since Dante is in DT and would just break is guns even faster.

If they'll start in range and NW can't really win against Dante in CqC

So yes Dante has the vastly greater LS and would just slice apart White when given the chance however White is also a very careful fighter and a very quick learner, he’s fought demons that can essentially one shot him (ie: Guardians(28:03)) and has shown to grow in skill at a very quick pace, also there’s nothing stopping White from discarding either Godspeed or Fireball or Stomp in CQC so White would blitz Dante again. Plus White has decent reactions to things that are basically touching him, he narrowly avoided Violet’s tripwires after stepping into it(1:22:18) (for context, tripwires instantly kill you when stepping into them no matter the distance), so arguably White can notice the difference in LS between him and Dante if they were to CQC.

I think for White to win this he would have to play the range game against Dante, keeping him out of sword’s reach and just shoot him and blow him up constantly, I know it’s said that White prefers swords over guns but ironically White mostly uses guns as his main form of offence through out the game, and outlast Dante’s DT which is something White should be capable of doing. Again White is a careful fighter, the moment he sees Dante and his sword, White will use his guns and fight from afar.

 

[Drite77]

Combat skills and tactics get analysed all the time, it's just most people don't look that deeply. Doesn't make it unreasonable.

It doesn't, but the fact you'll have the lads from Vermintide 2 being called "very skilled", despite their move in game not really showing it, or hand-to-hand fighters like Jack Hanma "basically skill stomping" someone when he mostly just punches good, or even other fiction based characters like Luke Skywalker, whose showing in the movies isn't exactly anything amazing, but in lore he is very skilled, not getting 'called out' by their supposed mistakes in their fighting styles (I like some of these series, just pointing out how it never happens)

But when it comes to Dante, said flaws in his fighting style that were never stated in the show are always pointed out, msot of the time, it is mildly infuriating to say the least because, once again, people will rarely do that and if someone tries that with a verse people will be quick to jump out the over-analization, but it'll never happen for Netflix Dante. It is, once again, mildly infuriating.

 

[Drite77]

even Godspeed and Stomp to blitz and stomp Dante back down to the ground

So this is a stomp because the rules clearly say if that happens the match can't be added

Not a problem for White since he’s already fought and beaten a character who does that, Neon Green.

Flying would just be used to get closer and not let Neon White escape.

That’s not happening since Dante is in DT and would just break is guns even faster.

I believe I mentioned that, yes, but you are responding to your own comment so I don't get this either

he’s fought demons that can essentially one shot him (ie: Guardians(28:03))

No mention of the guardians one shotting Neon White is said

has shown to grow in skill at a very quick pace

The profile's link doesn't seem to imply he get's better in skill (As in, weapon mastery), just new abilities

also there’s nothing stopping White from discarding either Godspeed or Fireball or Stomp in CQC so White would blitz Dante again

So once again, it is a stomp, and this should be closed.

Plus White has decent reactions to things that are basically touching him, he narrowly avoided Violet’s tripwires after stepping into it(1:22:18)

It didn't seem like it went into effect as soon as he stepped on it

so arguably White can notice the difference in LS between him and Dante if they were to CQC.

Not before he gets hit by the LS difference, a sword slash should at least cripple Neon White

I think for White to win this he would have to play the range game against Dante, keeping him out of sword’s reach and just shoot him and blow him up constantly, I know it’s said that White prefers swords over guns but ironically White mostly uses guns as his main form of offence through out the game

But he would go for the sword first, that's what matters, he would go into range with him before having to resort to his guns

outlast Dante’s DT which is something White should be capable of doing

Assuming Neon White knows outlasting is a win con, which there is nothing that says it, as Dante starts transformed and he can regen, one wouldn't try to outlast someone who can regenerate


Regardless, this is a stomp for Neon White due to the speed amp

 

[Random-Helper323]

It doesn't, but the fact you'll have the lads from Vermintide 2 being called "very skilled", despite their move in game not really showing it, or hand-to-hand fighters like Jack Hanma "basically skill stomping" someone when he mostly just punches good, or even other fiction based characters like Luke Skywalker, whose showing in the movies isn't exactly anything amazing, but in lore he is very skilled, not getting 'called out' by their supposed mistakes in their fighting styles (I like some of these series, just pointing out how it never happens)

That's a case of narrative overriding visuals. If they contradict we have to go with narrative. Outside of cases like that, observing how they fight still happens.

But when it comes to Dante, said flaws in his fighting style that were never stated in the show are always pointed out, msot of the time, it is mildly infuriating to say the least because, once again, people will rarely do that and if someone tries that with a verse people will be quick to jump out the over-analization, but it'll never happen for Netflix Dante. It is, once again, mildly infuriating.

It's not as big of a thing as you're thinking. This isn't a case of a skilled character using a clunky move and being argued as unskilled for it. This is a case of a character with a skill feat whose fighting style can also be observed independent of that, and whose fighting style also has a historical basis.

As for the over-analysing thing, that's literally what this stuff is all about. We're okay with measuring the exact number of pixels an explosion is, measuring the size it results in based on real life objects, measuring the yield based on real life explosions, then measuring the damage done based on real life materials all to arrive at a value, but observing that the character spins and makes wide slashes a lot is off limits?

 

[Random-Helper323]

Anyway, White has no reason to think DT has any time limit, so what will he actually try to do?

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

So this is a stomp because the rules clearly say if that happens the match can't be added

That only happens if the character blitzes and one shots, White is only blitzing

Flying would just be used to get closer and not let Neon White escape.

If Dante tries to get closer, White discards Godspeed or Fireball to blitz him or Stomp to knock him back

No mention of the guardians one shotting Neon White is said

In gameplay

It didn't seem like it went into effect as soon as he stepped on it

You could chalk that up to fact that the cutscenes play out like a visual novel, tripwires in gameplay always trigger after you step into it and it will kill White instantly

a sword slash should at least cripple Neon White

Health Soul Card

Anyway, White has no reason to think DT has any time limit, so what will he actually try to do?

Fight to death at that point, trying to cut him down or blowing him up

this is a stomp for Neon White due to the speed amp

If that were the case then every Matchup with Neon White is a stomp in his favour lol

 

[Drite77]

That only happens if the character blitzes and one shots, White is only blitzing

Not as far as I know, Neon White would be literally over 40x faster then Dante, there is literally not a single way he can win with that massive gap, there is no win con since Neon White can kill Dante before Dante can even think of doing something and he can't deal with Neon White

In gameplay

Any reason it shouldn't be considered gameplay mechanics since it doesn't seem Neon White even considers them a thread?

Health Soul Card

How many Cards does Neon White even has? An infinite ammount or a limited random ammount? Does he collect cards on the levels?

Fight to death at that point, trying to cut him down or blowing him up

Which does not automatically become a lasting game, Dante's DT is not short, and once agian, that does not mean Neon White will stall the fight

If that were the case then every Matchup with Neon White is a stomp in his favour lol

Seems like it, there is not a lot of characters that can overcome a 40x speed difference without strong passives, which Dante doesn't have, which means he has no way of overcoming a 40x speed difference

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

Any reason it shouldn't be considered gameplay mechanics since it doesn't seem Neon White even considers them a thread?

This is early in the story, White’s being cocky and doesn’t know anything yet. Mikey is the oldest in the room, he would know

How many Cards does Neon White even has? An infinite ammount or a limited random ammount? Does he collect cards on the levels?

At least 3 to discard and hundreds of ammunition without needing to reload. White collects cards throughout levels but it’s also implied that White can stockpile Soul Cards when going out on missions(8:02)

The profile's link doesn't seem to imply he get's better in skill (As in, weapon mastery), just new abilities

Forgot to mention, abilities as in proficiency skills not power ups

Not as far as I know, Neon White would be literally over 40x faster then Dante, there is literally not a single way he can win with that massive gap, there is no win con since Neon White can kill Dante before Dante can even think of doing something and he can't deal with Neon White

Seems like it, there is not a lot of characters that can overcome a 40x speed difference without strong passives

Yeah so I read the Stomp Thread page and shit I guess White does stomp in this case via blitzing. That sucks considering it only gets worst from there

 

[Drite77]

Ok, so I guess I'll ask someone to close this for realsies now

 

[AnonymousStandUser]

Ok, so I guess I'll ask someone to close this for realsies now

Yeah
Dude if you think the 40x speed diff is bad enough, then BooF is gonna make it a whole lot worse

 

[Drite77]

Yeah
Dude if you think the 40x speed diff is bad enough, then BooF is gonna make it a whole lot worse

Well just throw him against someone who has enough passives to deal with and you'll have a 'decent match', which will probably be "Can this guy kill this other guy before he dies by existing despite being so fast the other guy is in slow motion" type things, there is always another characters from the verse I guess

 

[Vietthai96]

Closing due to people conclude the match is a stomp