Demise does a thing

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

As if that changes literally anything I said holy shit.

This is some Grade A denial.

My man there are literally holes with a visible blue sky in the background

Those holes turn black

No clouds come over them

 

[Chariot190]

Not to mention storm clouds bunch together whereas the clouds in Demise's dimension are spread apart over a large area with many noticable gaps

Except, ya know, the fact that there's also a stormbox layer at the outer edges which I LITERALLY showed you in a noclip ripped DIRECTLY from the game. Goddamn, I'm convinced you haven't even checked anything and are just arguing off some sort of faulty memory from a decade ago.

There were no strong winds, precipitation, lightning, or temperatures, they were just clouds

they were just STORM CLOUDS. You're arguing because the STORM clouds, which yes, that's what they were, identical to every other instance in the game, not instantly spewing rain and lightning, even though they start doing exactly that like a minute later while completely unchanged from Point A to B, it must mean nah, they weren't storm clouds, they were just uh, randomly altered clouds that were identical to storm clouds in every way.

Also what? Have you never been outside before? You do know storms don't start instantly?

And once again, you fail to rebut any actual point or prove anything, only saying "nah man black sky" as the whole of your argument. Where's the proof, stop dodging the question.

My man there are literally holes with a visible blue sky in the background

Those holes turn black

No clouds come over them

Wow just like in multiple other storms displayed in game.
It's almost like the stylized game took some liberties to portray a dark sky and stormy weather, just like other storms, hell not even in that game alone, but multiple games, what is Vaati 3-A for making the sky a different color too now?

And once again, Tentalus, there's gaps in the cloud layers where you can see the sky, it's black.

You people can't be ******* serious, stop trying to inflate the most basic bitch storm creation for funny number.

 

[Dust_Collector]

I'm so ******* glad I made this shit it's own thread instead of risking my future Demise CRT being plagued with star busting storm arguments

 

[Jason_Courne]

Except, ya know, the fact that there's also a stormbox layer at the outer edges which I LITERALLY showed you in a noclip ripped DIRECTLY from the game. Goddamn, I'm convinced you haven't even checked anything and are just arguing off some sort of faulty memory from a decade ago.

I ignored it because... imagine using a game break as actual evidence, you aren't supposed to be seeing that shit

 

[Chariot190]

I ignored it because... imagine using a game break as actual evidence, you aren't supposed to be seeing that shit

It's not a gamebreak, it's just a free camera, all that shit is in the boss as it's happening and shit you can actually see if you actually look at it. It's me literally pointing out "hey btw, it's actually in Demise's fight too", would you rather me buy the game, spend the next two weeks playing it, get there and then take screenshots and circle them with giant red youtube clickbait circles just to prove you obviously never played the game?
and that's not even all the thunderclouds the game adds too in that scene

You also ignored everything else too btw.

 

[Jason_Courne]

It's not a gamebreak, it's just a free camera, all that shit is in the boss as it's happening and shit you can actually see if you actually look at it. It's me literally pointing out "hey btw, it's actually in Demise's fight too", would you rather me buy the game, spend the next two weeks playing it, get there and then take screenshots and circle them with giant red youtube clickbait circles just to prove you obviously never played the game?

Yes
You are purposely going beyond what you're supposed to see, and simply reused assets isn't good enough considering both showcases are too different in context to be compared

You also ignored everything else too btw.

Cuz I'm focusing on 2 upgrade threads, and 4 revision threads

Tentalus is creating a storm over the entire desert area, it is meant to be a big ass storm that is meant to cover the sky. Whereas Demise is changing the sky's color over an incredibly clear day, where you are supposed to see the sky

There is also a significant difference in the clouds of the two, Tentalus's storm is actually that... a storm, it looks like a storm and purposely has the clouds bunched together with the black skybox being used as a backdrop to make up for any rendering issues

Whereas Demise's "storm feat" isn't actually a storm, it's a bunch of very spread out clouds where the game purposely shows us the change in colors rather than hiding it behind a stormy backdrop

 

[Dust_Collector]

 

[Chariot190]

You are purposely going beyond what you're supposed to see, and simply reused assets isn't good enough considering both showcases are too different in context to be compared

???????????
Except no? I'm just spoonfeeding you here and blatantly showing you plain as day that hey, Demise storm go brrr, you can go and check that shit out yourself in the fight like actually, just walk away, demise slow as ****
Reused assets because it's a thunderstorm. Why the do you think it's being reused?
You know there's like a dozen types of clouds in the game right? Why would they pick clouds used for thunderstorms?

Cuz I'm focusing on 2 upgrade threads, and 4 revision threads

Do you not know how this wiki works? All you've done, and I mean that, is say "lmao sky black = tier 4", you've failed to answer or justify anything at all, you've ignored every alternative, you've failed to even implicate why this shit would be anything at all even if true beyond the very range we're already giving him (and that's only if true and this even covered the whole dimension to begin with), all you've done is effectively waste time, and from the looks of it, continue to waste everyone's time.

If you can't juggle multiple threads, then don't, come back later instead of ignoring the dozen points you have no answer to.

Tentalus is creating a storm over the entire desert area, it is meant to be a big ass storm that is meant to cover the sky. Whereas Demise is changing the sky's color over an incredibly clear day, where you are supposed to see the sky

You keep saying this, and yet no matter how much you debate it, it's not true. Tentalus storm doesn't cover the whole sky, you've said that so many times yet it's objectively wrong, what part of giant hundred meter wide gaps do you fail to comprehend? You can see past the gaps in the clouds, sky is black, just like Demise. The sky is black because it's storming, dark skies, cloudy weather, that be how it do.

You're supposed to see the sky in both of them anyway, why is that? Because they let you see the sky in both of them. And in Tentalus it's even more apparent as you're intended to use an item that has a zoom in feature.
You have any idea how games are made? This shit is entirely intentional, if they didn't want you seeing gaps in the clouds at all with Tentalus, you wouldn't. Yet you can, it's black, wow, just like Demise.

There is also a significant difference in the clouds of the two, Tentalus's storm is actually that... a storm, it looks like a storm and purposely has the clouds bunched together with the black skybox being used as a backdrop to make up for any rendering issues

Lmao what? "to make up for any rendering issues", what a blatant lie, they could have just made it dark grey like in other scenes in the game elsewhere, they could have just made the sky completely filled with clouds instead without any gaps (which they ALSO do at one point elsewhere, could have just ported that over instead), they could have done a bunch of things, but whatever the case may be, that isn't what they did now is it? And it sure as **** isn't due to rendering issues (It's a skybox, why are you going on about rendering of all things? Especially in a game that can render a dozen times more and maps dozens of times larger than the very small localized boss arena, if anything, you bringing up rendering as an argument is insane given Demise's boss arena is legit like 100x bigger and way more taxing due to being a huge reflective square tile, and as such having less loaded like cloud textures would be better for performance).

There is no significant difference, and I mean that literally, they actually reuse a lot of the same assets in those two cases. And the rest is just shit you made up. Hell they even ripped most of the textures from a literal storm cloud elsewhere.

Whereas Demise's "storm feat" isn't actually a storm, it's a bunch of very spread out clouds where the game purposely shows us the change in colors rather than hiding it behind a stormy backdrop

A zoomed in shot of Demise is purposely "showing us that he explicitly warped the entire dimension to be the color black and definitely not a storm of any kind", Lmao? Damn, I guess Ghirahim 3-A for making the sky dark that one time too lol.
And lmao^2, you do know we know it's a storm right? That shit starts raining and lighting come even before phase 2. If not a storm then what is it?
And yeah man, it's a bunch of spread out clouds, completely ignoring how there's even mini clouds so up your ass that you can walk through them after the wave. While ignoring an actual stormcloud backdrop and the reflective pattern gets loaded in.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Except no? I'm just spoonfeeding you here and blatantly showing you plain as day that hey, Demise storm go brrr, you can go and check that shit out yourself in the fight like actually, just walk away, demise slow as ****

Yes you are using the skybox itself as reasoning, which you aren't even supposed to be seeing in Tentalus's boss fight as it is purposely behind several layers of clouds

You keep saying this, and yet no matter how much you debate it, it's not true. Tentalus storm doesn't cover the whole sky, you've said that so many times yet it's objectively wrong, what part of giant hundred meter wide gaps do you fail to comprehend? You can see past the gaps in the clouds, sky is black, just like Demise. The sky is black because it's storming, dark skies, cloudy weather, that be how it do.

Except that's clearly what is meant to be conveyed

You are comparing pinholes in a blanket to a giant tear down the middle and saying it's are the exact same, one is blatantly bigger and more "storm like" than the other (because Tentalus's storm is actually a ******* storm)

 

[Chariot190]

Yes you are using the skybox itself as reasoning, which you aren't even supposed to be seeing in Tentalus's boss fight as it is purposely behind several layers of clouds

Except it isn't? Maybe if you're literally blind, coping and outright lying you could argue that.
But, again, for the umpteenth time, no, it isn't. The skybox isn't hidden behind shit. You can see past it, this is intentional, and the game allows you to do so.
The skybox isn't hidden behind shit, it if it was, it'd ACTUALLY be hidden behind shit, given they literally do that at other points in that same game, like not even once or twice, a solid 6+ times I can think of off the top of my head where you straight up don't get to see the skybox because it's completely covered, but they do not here, meaning no, you're allowed to see it, you're meant to see it, they could, did and had teh assets and tools to enable it so you couldn't here but obviously that isn't the case, and it directly contradicts your claim.

You don't have an argument, it's just you in denial at this point.

Except that's clearly what is meant to be conveyed

Lmao, they're both clearly a storm, as evidenced by the actual metric fuckton of proof and the fact Demise's literally uses the same shit. Like goddamn if pointing out how a literal stormcloud layer gets loaded in ain't enough to convince idk what to tell you brother.

You are comparing pinholes in a blanket to a giant tear down the middle and saying it's are the exact same, one is blatantly bigger and more "storm like" than the other (because Tentalus's storm is actually a ******* storm)

"Pinholes", ah yes, pinholes, which is why if you look up there's actually giant gaps in the sky without anything blocking your view lmao. And dozens of giant gaps in the clouds taking about probably whole double digit of percentile fractions. "Pinholes". But, because this goes against the narrative that sky black = tier 4, it must not be intentional and you're not meant tp see them at all even though you'd need to be actually blind to not notice at least a bit shit's up, in a game made in the modern age.
Lmao.

They're both a storm lol.

Stop cooking, again and again, all you've done is say "lmao black", I like how you, once again, failed to actually give any evidence lol. Like really, you do know you're going to need to convince at least 3 mods for this to get accepted right? And one already disagrees? Actually do what's asked of you and give evidence to support your claims because this ain't it chief.

 

[Dalesean027]

Yeah I'm not seeing this being 4-C tbh and besides Demise is already getting range and ability additions from this regardless and those I agree with but 4-C I'm just not seeing

 

[Jason_Courne]

Except it isn't? Maybe if you're literally blind, coping and outright lying you could argue that.
But, again, for the umpteenth time, no, it isn't. The skybox isn't hidden behind shit. You can see past it, this is intentional, and the game allows you to do so.
The skybox isn't hidden behind shit, it if it was, it'd ACTUALLY be hidden behind shit, given they literally do that at other points in that same game, like not even once or twice, a solid 6+ times I can think of off the top of my head where you straight up don't get to see the skybox because it's completely covered, but they do not here, meaning no, you're allowed to see it, you're meant to see it, they could, did and had teh assets and tools to enable it so you couldn't here but obviously that isn't the case, and it directly contradicts your claim.

You don't have an argument, it's just you in denial at this point.

Calm down son, it's just pixels (hypocritical of me to say that but lol)

The skybox is just used as a backdrop for the storm even those areas that you "can see through" are still covered with lighter layers of clouds, the entire area is covered in clouds. Whereas Demise's fight has outright naked patches of sky, the only time those patches of sky are covered is when Demise ACTUALLY creates a storm

Lmao, they're both clearly a storm, as evidenced by the actual metric fuckton of proof and the fact Demise's literally uses the same shit. Like goddamn if pointing out how a literal stormcloud layer gets loaded in ain't enough to convince idk what to tell you brother.

No not really, one has constantly moving winds and shifting clouds with repeated lightnign strikes in the background. Demise's phase 1 boss fight's clouds are completely still in comparison, only after phase 2 of his fight do the clouds develop into a rolling thunderstorm with constant lightning and powerful winds

There is a clear difference between phase 1 Demsie fight and phase 2 Demise fight, and as such phase 1 of Demise's fight is incomparable to Tentalus's boss fight

 

[Chariot190]

Calm down son, it's just pixels (hypocritical of me to say that but lol)

Calm down? Why because I said ****? No offense but get used to it, you don't see me complaining by you doing the same. Or is the "maybe if you're-" statement, I'm at the point I'm convinced it has to be one of those 3 so shrug.

The skybox is just used as a backdrop for the storm even those areas that you "can see through" are still covered with lighter layers of clouds, the entire area is covered in clouds. Whereas Demise's fight has outright naked patches of sky,

They aren't, at all. There's outright naked patches in Tentalus' fight too? Like who do you think you're fooling? You do know I've played the game right?
"The entire area is cov-", except that's wrong, again and again, in Tentalus' fight there's 3 layers of storms clouds, and behind that is a black skybox, but there's still giant gaps in the clouds that you can see through to the skybox, especially if you look straight up (meaning lmao the "clouds just blotted out the light" argument).
This isn't up for debate, this is simply how it happens, it's intentional otherwise they wouldn't let you see it through at all especially as they do do a cloudy weather thing elsewhere where they DONT let that happen. Your whole argument is literally "well it doesnt count, that isnt what they intended", as if that's that's ever going to cut it lmao, who are you to say what they intended or not? Do you have a statement? We have two cases of storms in the very same game were the sky is pitch black.

the only time those patches of sky are covered is when Demise ACTUALLY creates a storm

Jesus I sure hope no one tells you at this point the meme.

No not really, one has constantly moving winds and shifting clouds with repeated lightnign strikes in the background. Demise's phase 1 boss fight's clouds are completely still in comparison, only after phase 2 of his fight do the clouds develop into a rolling thunderstorm with constant lightning and powerful winds

Uh, what? Clouds are moving in Demise's phase 1 too wtf?
i'm not even going to humor that second sentence as if we haven't already gone through that let alone the fact the first strike of lightning occurs before any of that actually happens lol

There is a clear difference between phase 1 Demsie fight and phase 2 Demise fight, and as such phase 1 of Demise's fight is incomparable to Tentalus's boss fight

And yet, all are just storms. And funny lol black sky = 4-C is just the weather bullshit it's also funny that we haven't gone past tentalus as if there isn't other examples of bright blue sky turning into a different color due to weather phenomena in that same game
Like goddamn if you want to reach this bad for a zelda upgrade at least go try and **** wth Vaati or something. And yet, after all this, you still haven't posted any evidence lol.

 

[Jason_Courne]

Calm down? Why because I said ****? No offense but get used to it, you don't see me complaining by you doing the same. Or is the "maybe if you're-" statement, I'm at the point I'm convinced it has to be one of those 3 so shrug.

Getting a little bit heated there buddy, calm down it's just some pixels

And yet, all are just storms. And funny lol black sky = 4-C is just the weather bullshit it's also funny that we haven't gone past tentalus as if there isn't other examples of bright blue sky turning into a different color due to weather phenomena in that same game

Because you brought up the worst ******* example, look at this image, now look at this image you see the difference?

 

[Chariot190]

Getting a little bit heated there buddy, calm down it's just some pixels

Assuming someone's emotional state on the internet through text is the most stuck-up, ignorant thing one can possibly do.
But concession accepted.

Because you brought up the worst ******* example, look at this image, now look at this image

Damn, not one lightning storm in zelda actually looks like that, guess we gotta toss every lightning storm in zelda for not sticking 1:1 with real-life depictions lol.

 

[Armorchompy]

Can someone summarize the points here? I've skimmed a bit and have my opinions but I'd rather have that before giving my own.

 

[Chariot190]

The sky turns black, him doing so is a completely disconnected feat from the storm he also conjures, as such he should be 4-C as he warped the whole dimension making the sky black.

The lightning and stuff didn't actually start till phase 2 so it's not a storm.

The tentalus storm is meant to be completely covering the sky, the black skybox is just a backdrop you're not meant to see, and thus can't be compared to Demise's initial wave that had large uncovered sections.

Something to do with rendering issues.

He's said to have control over the dimension, thus, him turning the sky black covers the whole dimension in its entirety and doesn't need a statement.

It doesn't resemble a storm irl.

---

Counterpoints.
The game has other lightning storms and bad weather were the bright blue skybox, unfiltered by clouds mind you (in some cases straight up impossible to be covered by clouds), changes colors too, including pitch black as well. It's just how the game depicts changes in weather or atmosphere, when bright blue skies turn a funny color elsewhere, obviously we aren't jumping to the conclusion it involves cosmic level reality warping, even Ghirahim does it at one point with weather.

Demise's arena re-uses stormy assets from other times.

it's straight up confirmed to be a storm

Rendering issues is an actual made up argument based on nothing and if anything would apply to Demise's feat which takes place in a tremendously huge plain with a giant reflective multi-km reflective sheet for an arena if we legit bring in arguments like that. Also it's a skybox, that shit has nothing to do with rendering and it can't be clouds given there's whole maps elsewhere that shoots that notion down.

Just because it doesn't start immediately doesn't mean it still isn't weather fuckery, especially when the first signs of lightning occur before anything actually changes without Demise doing anything new (and other cases of weather phenomena in that same game can be slow to take full effect as well).

Tentalus' skybox isn't meant to be anything and it definitely isn't meant to be completely covered, the fact is you can see it, and there are notable huge patches without clouds you can see right through that are unmissable, if they didn't want it visible they wouldn't have it be visible to begin with, just like other instances in that very same game where they don't let you see shit. Fact is they didn't do that here and hundred-meter gaps ain't exactly small.

It not resembling storms irl is a nothing argument, it's a stylized game and by that logic, none of them resemble an actual storm.

Even assuming it has nothing to do with a storm, there's absolutely no evidence or details given about it, nothing says it covered the whole dimension, nothing says he actually warped it completely, nothing dictates it has anything to do that would scale to stats, nothing says or implies it affected the sun (the only reason it'd be anything), changing the sky black doesn't even make sense beyond just an atmosphere change even then as a sun would exist out in a void of space, something that's already black. Why such a thing would be 4-C even if true is blatant grasping and complete conjecture.

We're already giving him range for the dimension, so even if it was color manip, it'd just be range.

We literally don't give AP for this type of feat anyway by our standards, see DBZ's world of the void feats where changing the color of an infinite dimension grants nothing by itself.

Numerous other storms, in Zelda in general, involve a pitch black sky too, yet we still know it's related to the weather manip and we aren't going to assume it's planetary or universal reality warping.

Ganon in later games has the ability to black out stuff anyway in a localized manner, it'd sooner be that than an unfounded reality warping.

Also a bunch of free camera, noclip, game shit involving loading assets, textures, lightning, etc and what not but apparently that isn't good enough evidence

 

[Jason_Courne]

Damn, not one lightning storm in zelda actually looks like that, guess we gotta toss every lightning storm in zelda for not sticking 1:1 with real-life depictions lol.

Lmao yeah sure buddy, the game directly shows us a real thunderstorm in game, but yeaaaaah Demise's cloud feat is "the exact same" according to you

Purposely ******* around with the game files isn't good evidence because those are just that game assets

 

[Chariot190]

As stated, multiple times, that isn't "******* around with the game files", it's me treating you like you're five and blatantly going "hey look dude, you're objectively wrong" by showing you shit that's loaded in at the time and not you taking a random yt video where the dudes playing are hyper focused on fighting the boss to somehow argue that isn't the case or they aren't there.

And yes, that doesn't look identical to the literal irl random Australian storm you linked, guess we can't use it

 

[Jason_Courne]

As stated, multiple times, that isn't "******* around with the game files", it's me treating you like you're five and blatantly going "hey look dude, you're objectively wrong" by showing you shit that's loaded in at the time and not you taking a random yt video where the dudes playing are hyper focused on fighting the boss.

It's literally the reuse of game assets and your treating it like the new messiah of evidence, one's clearly a thunderstorm and the other isn't
We are given multiple direct examples of thunderstorms, and Demise's cloud feat is nowhere near it

 

[Chariot190]

The reuse of specific assets, in a game with literally hundreds of alternative assets. Why do you think they reused them? That was rhetorical, it's because they're both two sides of the same coin, not withstanding your reply would probably be baseless conjecture like rendering again.

One's clearly a thunderstorm? They're both clearly a thunderstorm, the assets just prove that fact. I'm going to let you figure out that tertiary info exists.

We're given multiple direct examples, and wouldn't you know it, black sky.

We're also given multiple examples of other weather changing a completely unclouded bright blue sky box a completely different color due to weather related phenomenon elsewhere (like bruh you've played the game right? This ain't a once or twice thing), but like everything else, you failed to debate even the simplest of points or counter evidence, and instead are just stone walling funny sky = 4-C.

Oh and btw when are you going to bring up the evidence asked of you? You've been asked about five times and every single mod thus far has said they ain't buying 4-C, you know you need to actually substantiate your extraordinary claims right? You not doing it and continuing to do whatever this is, well, you know you're wasting everyone's time right? Like what? Do we need to do this for another week or two before you find some statements? You're not fooling me brother, if you want your shit accepted you're gonna need proof.

 

[Armorchompy]

yeah this feels like a lot of assumptions for the only basis behind a big tier, count me as a disagree

 

[Jason_Courne]

One's clearly a thunderstorm? They're both clearly a thunderstorm, the assets just prove that fact. I'm going to let you figure out that tertiary info exists.

Thunder vs no thunder then thunder LATER

Not to mention until phase 2 of Demise's boss fight they look completely different from tentalus's fight, the clouds in phase 1 are orangish brown, wheras they turn greyish white in the 2nd phase
Whereas the clouds in Tentalus's fight are dark gray

Oh and btw when are you going to bring up the evidence asked of you? You've been asked about five times and every single mod thus far has said they ain't buying 4-C, you know you need to actually substantiate your extraordinary claims right? You not doing it and continuing to do whatever this is, well, you know you're wasting everyone's time right? Like what? Do we need to do this for another week or two before you find some statements? You're not fooling me brother, if you want your shit accepted you're gonna need proof.

Oh no I don't care about 4-C anymore at this point, it's pretty obvious

 

[Smashtwig]

revival lol

I really like the idea of 4-C LoZ (cuz the scale of this universe is like, worldwide so I always expect planet level or up and I also hate that this cringe funni mask man is stronger than the damn Triforce of Power), and especially for demise because I always like the idea of the original dude being the strongest, but the evidence don’t add up here lol

Instead of arguing over if the storm is extending out into the stars, how about we just calculate how far the thunderstorm actually extends? Perhaps we could somehow prove that the dimension is at least planetary or smth lol.

also can I see the translation that debunked Star level again? (Nvm found it)



a couple more unrelated things that will derail but whatever

Light Arrows aren’t light speed right (provide a reason too plz)

and I feel like reformatting TP Link because I feel like it and I wanna give it the detailed treatment if that’s okay with you guys. I kinda feel like doing a JoJo vs 8-C Link match

also I joined in because Im done with Gunvolt scaling and wanna do smth else

 

[Dust_Collector]

Instead of arguing over if the storm is extending out into the stars, how about we just calculate how far the thunderstorm actually extends? Perhaps we could somehow prove that the dimension is at least planetary or smth lol.

We don't need a calc to prove the dimension being at least planetary, it has a very visible sun. Also the storms size can't be calculated beyond at best a couple hundred kilometers if you take the actual ingame size of the arena into account so it wouldn't get anywhere close to that level anyway. Not that it matters since the only thing going for this being 4-C is a statement that isn't even that good for anything besides range.

also can I see the translation that debunked Star level again?

https://vsbattles.com/threads/minor-demise-downgrade-legend-of-zelda.118909/

There's also another in game statement that directly states he made the dimension but turns out what's actually said is the translation I linked in the OP, he just controls the space.

Light Arrows aren’t light speed right

Yeah that's right, we used to treat them as light speed but stopped a while back.