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Espio the Chameleon vs UB-02 Absorption
- Thread starter King_Clab
- Start date
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the optional equipment kinda leads to a stomp since not only does he get 1-C levels of damage transferral but also several layers of stat boosts and shit like the matter absorbing black hole. Combine that with the level up system per step and Buzzwole just dies. I think at least removing the optional stuff would be better.
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- Thread starter
- #3
Optional items removed for Espio
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Ok now that is a fight. Espio has a great skill advantage and stealth advantage but not only can Buzzwole use Taunt to piss him off he can also just grab him. Buzzwole should have enough skill to keep up with Espio and if a single grab is preformed, Espio is cooked as he is vastly outclassed in LS and would get drinked like a smoothie.
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- Thread starter
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Vote for Buzzwole
?
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I'll wait it out a bitVote for Buzzwole
Kellex
He/Him- 1,499
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Bumps should be after 8 hours of inactivity.
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- Thread starter
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I have no idea why Espio is Class M. His justification is an outdated justification that used to be used for Metal Sonic and doesn't elaborate on how he scales at all. Assuming the profile is meaning to say he scales to Modern Metal Sonic his LS should be Multi-Stellar. No idea if that was a mistake or not though.
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,712
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Some of the Sonic profiles suck tbh
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- Thread starter
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He could do that. He could hypothetically wear down Buzzwole if he does a hit, and run strategy, although that would take a while considering Buzzwole has regen. [Roost should be under healing, but I don’t make the pages]
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They're both High 3-A, which is infinite AP on a 3D scale.Does anyone know Espio’s AP? I couldn’t find it
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,412
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This is exactly why I started my Sonic Revision Series.
I had Espio, Vector, and Charmy completely revised (and no joke, I had like 6 others done too) but then my Imgur was banned so the character page revision series I started has been halted ever since. It was shitty luck and bad timing.
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,712
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Are the current revisions going smoothly?
ShakeResounding
He/Him- 10,412
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Well, the current revisions are some downgrades (downgrading the standard universe back to Low 2-C is one) and then some additions. They're all on pause because it would be inefficient to change the ratings or add working scans while the rest of the page is filled with broken links. I highly appreciate them for being willing to do so.
If you mean my planned revisions, I would say most of it will go smoothly because most have the work nearly entirely done.
(Sorry for not voting, OP lol)
AyOgUyS
He/Him- 2,712
- 1,050
Noted.
(For the record I'm voting Espio due to just wearing down Buzzwole over time)
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If Buzzwhole leads with Taunt or Swagger before Espio activates his camouflage, then he very well could get to grab Espio and win. However, in the more likely scenario that Espio camouflages before Buzzwole does either of these moves, he has an insane stealth advantage on top of the agility and speed advantage he already had with his ninja skill and spin attack. How can Buzzwole defend against this?
Option 1: Stalling. Buzzwole can use healing moves like Roost, and defense boosting moves like Bulk Up while taking a defensive stance. If push comes to shove, it even has access to Endure. Trying to win a war of attrition like this is a bad idea since Espio has some really impressive superhuman stamina, and his spammable homing attack instincively attacks the opponent's weak spots, so defense will ultimately fail without a good counter-attack.
Option 2: Counter and Vital Throw. The former deals back physical damage dealt to itself, while the latter "hardly misses" but bascially requires that Buzzwole takes a hit first. Despite those moves' mechanics, it's hard to say if they would easily land on an invisible opponent or if it's a NLF rooted in game mechanics to say so. Debatable.
Optiom 3: Use Swagger. In-game those moves can miss, but realistically, it shouldn't matter whether or not Buzzwole can see Espio or not. As long as Espio can see Buzzwole's swag, he should be subjected to its effects. Debatable win con for Buzzwole, but I'm leaning towards it being valid. He needs some decent luck to pull it off and to take full advantage of the opening he may have after Espio hits hinself in confusion though.
Voting Espio. He's more skilled, has actual ranged options and more speed and agility to land the hits he needs whereas Buzzwole's win cons require specific moves at specific times, and have ways of backfiring. Swagger straight boosts Espio's AP, which means if the chameleon doesn't hit himself in confusion, he's gonna win even faster.
Option 1: Stalling. Buzzwole can use healing moves like Roost, and defense boosting moves like Bulk Up while taking a defensive stance. If push comes to shove, it even has access to Endure. Trying to win a war of attrition like this is a bad idea since Espio has some really impressive superhuman stamina, and his spammable homing attack instincively attacks the opponent's weak spots, so defense will ultimately fail without a good counter-attack.
Option 2: Counter and Vital Throw. The former deals back physical damage dealt to itself, while the latter "hardly misses" but bascially requires that Buzzwole takes a hit first. Despite those moves' mechanics, it's hard to say if they would easily land on an invisible opponent or if it's a NLF rooted in game mechanics to say so. Debatable.
Optiom 3: Use Swagger. In-game those moves can miss, but realistically, it shouldn't matter whether or not Buzzwole can see Espio or not. As long as Espio can see Buzzwole's swag, he should be subjected to its effects. Debatable win con for Buzzwole, but I'm leaning towards it being valid. He needs some decent luck to pull it off and to take full advantage of the opening he may have after Espio hits hinself in confusion though.
Voting Espio. He's more skilled, has actual ranged options and more speed and agility to land the hits he needs whereas Buzzwole's win cons require specific moves at specific times, and have ways of backfiring. Swagger straight boosts Espio's AP, which means if the chameleon doesn't hit himself in confusion, he's gonna win even faster.
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I accounted for Buzzwole's healing. Espio's spin attack and camouflage just allow him to overtake it more often than not. If he constantly stabs Buzzwole with kunais and ninja stars, he's gonna have a hard time healing anyway, let alone counter attacking. Swagger can backfire, and Buzzwole needs to capitalize on a lucky self hit in confusion by using context clues to figure out where he's supposed to be grabbing. Espio's odds are just better imo.
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Confusion isn't just self hit. It essentially sends the opponent into a frenzy, they can't concentrate and are in a sort of state of suffering mentally. It is basically a status that heavily disorients the opponent and thus they hit themselves either in an attempt to snap out of it or out of sheer disorientation. If Buzzwole gets off the confusion then he can easily grab hold of Espio at which point it's over.
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Based on the games, it really doesn't seem that crippling, but I think Espio has experience dealing with such effects against Silver's special attack in Rivals anyway. I might be wrong on both counts though.
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We treat the anime as canon, the games simply don't expand on the effect. Even with experience all Buzzwole really needs is a moment to strike and he'll turn Espio into a meal.
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I will say it again, but Espio's page is very outdated. He should have Multi-Stellar LS.
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A.K.A before Buzzwhole uses Swagger and manages to capitalize on Espio's confusion to grab him despite the latter's most likely invisible state. If we are to assume that Buzzwole would lead with his most optimal moves, it's also safe to assume Espio would opt to stay invisible the whole fight since he has no reason not to. Confusion being temporary still means Espio has the more likely win con. He has more than enough mental clarity to keep his distance from Buzzwole until it wears off.
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Confused opponents are heavily disoriented and crash into shit all the time. This isn't a mild headspin this is a thing so devious it makes one confused enough to harm themselves. He's not gonna be comprehensive enough to keep his distance, especially considering Swagger also angers the opponent, making them stronger at the cost of completely losing their cool with said confusion. In short, Swagger is used, Espio gets pissed and disoriented, he jumps Buzzwole and then gets grabbed whilst he's stumbling around at which point he gets used like a smoothie.
