Hela crushing Mjolnir: Calc stacking?

[RoTt35]

I made this calc about Hela crushing Mjolnir based on the statements about Uru metal coming from the core of a neutron star. So I calculated the central pressure of the star based on its size, and from that the force a metal with the surface area of Mjolnir has to endure inside the core, and then the energy required to crush that by using work. I was told that using/calculating that for Hela's LS and AP would be calc stacking, so I made this thread to collaborate if it's indeed calc stacking, and if so, if there's any other way to scale or calculate the feat. All this assuming the calc is methodically and mathematically correct in the first place

 

[M3X_2.0]

Our rules say:

Only parameters that can't change between calculations can be re-purposed. To provide a few examples:

• Pixel scaling over several steps is permitted, as long as the size of the scaled objects usually stays constant.
• Using the calculated speed of a projectile to calculate the speed of a character dodging said projectile on the very same occasion is usually permitted, as long as the projectile wouldn't have changed its speed mid-flight.
• Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations.
• Multipliers can be used under the conditions outlined on the multiplier page.

However, even for these parameters, calc stacking is avoided as much as possible. That means that results taking less such steps are usually taken over results that rely on more calc stacking.

It's for things that can vary during scenes, like characters speeds and the potency of their attacks. What you calced is a constant, it's something that can't change unless stated or shown otherwise. It's no different from a size or distance calculation where it can't change from a scene to another, unless the locations are manually moved.

It's not calc stacking.

 

[KLOL506]

M3X seems to make sense to me.

@DontTalkDT @Qawsedf234 @Dalesean027 @Executor_N0 @SeijiSetto @Flashlight237 @Migue79 @Therefir @DMUA @Floxy178 Your input here would be appreciated.

 

[DontTalkDT]

I don't think it's calc stacking, but:

• You don't say where the formula (3GM^2)/(8πR^4) comes from. It's not a standard formula everyone would automatically know, so you should do that.
• I doubt the reasoning works. Like, do you know how regular iron is created on a cosmological level? Nuclear fusion in the center of stars. So, like, technically the description Thor gives fits regular iron. (yes, of course that doesn't apply to the neutron start part, but you get the idea)
  In principle, you can also look at deep sea fish and consider what this idea would mean for their durability.
  Basically, I don't think the ability to exist in conditions of lots of atmospheric pressure alone implies high durability.

 

[Migue79]

I agree with M3X. It's not calc-stacking in this case.

I also agree with DT here. A submarine can withstand a lot of constant pressure from the ocean above it, but wouldn't necessarily be able to withstand a torpedo blowing a hole through its hull.

 

[Floxy178]

Yeah this shouldn't be calc stacking, I also agree with DT's point about the calc's method.

 

[RoTt35]

You don't say where the formula (3GM^2)/(8πR^4) comes from. It's not a standard formula everyone would automatically know, so you should do that.

From here

I doubt the reasoning works. Like, do you know how regular iron is created on a cosmological level? Nuclear fusion in the center of stars. So, like, technically the description Thor gives fits regular iron. (yes, of course that doesn't apply to the neutron start part, but you get the idea)
In principle, you can also look at deep sea fish and consider what this idea would mean for their durability.
Basically, I don't think the ability to exist in conditions of lots of atmospheric pressure alone implies high durability.

I mean, are the conditions inside a neutron star's core the same as inside an ordinary star or underwater? And doesn't the iron inside stars exist in a plasma state as iron nuclei? Whereas Uru is mined from the core as it was ordinary matter. And technically, I'm not calculating Mjolnir's durability, but rather the pressure and force it can withstand inside the core, and then the energy Hela would need to crush something that can withstand that pressure and force. If that's still invalid, would it be for both LS and AP for Hela? And if so, is there any other way to calculate it?

 

[DontTalkDT]

I mean, are the conditions inside a neutron star's core the same as inside an ordinary star or underwater? And doesn't the iron inside stars exist in a plasma state as iron nuclei? Whereas Uru is mined from the core as it was ordinary matter. And technically, I'm not calculating Mjolnir's durability, but rather the pressure and force it can withstand inside the core, and then the energy Hela would need to crush something that can withstand that pressure and force. If that's still invalid, would it be for both LS and AP for Hela? And if so, is there any other way to calculate it?

The conditions inside a neutron start are different (nuclear pasta and all), but the fact that your calculation doesn't use any neutron-star specific assumption means that doesn't really factor into this.

And sure, the heat in a star vaporizes regular metal, but technically nothing about the aggregate state is said... and then it's just that: a high melting point.

Ultimately, the ability to endure a uniform pressure from all sides, doesn't really imply the ability to withstand high pressure differentials. Because with high pressure from all sides, all that will happen is that the material is compressed until its internal pressure is equal to the external one. Hence deep sea fish (likewise solid material) don't break.

I don't think there is a different way to calculate this feat, because I don't think this is a durability feat.

 

[ByArrow]

Uru metal liquefies at 50,000K according to Wakanda. So it cannot remain solid inside a star due to the heat.

 

[RoTt35]

I don't think there is a different way to calculate this feat, because I don't think this is a durability feat.

I see, that's underwhelming. Would something similar happen with this other feat where spaceships can fly into and through a wormhole described as a "collapsing neutron star inside of an Einstein-Rosen bridge" with a singularity? The artbook and novelization also state that it's a magnetar