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JoJo Counter
- Thread starter KaramcaS
- Start date
Kazuma_kuwabara
He/Him- 6,912
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Is impossible to counter them, they are invincible
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- Thread starter
- #3
if they are invincible why can i see them?
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You must be a stand user!
Chritin
He/Him- 1,494
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For GER, basically T5 Acausality is needed to counter it, or some other kind of unique hax. T4 is strange, simply because it is the "anything goes" brand of acausality. For example, characters that are unbound by fate are technically qualify for T4, but may still be bound by a system of cause and effect that GER can take advantage of.
For WoU, there are two hurdles when it comes to beating it: Calamity and actually killing WoU. Firstly, calamity and calamity energy manipulate logic to cause unfortunate things to happen to a target. These attacks can be widespread, negate durability, and even home in on a target. The other hurdle is actually killing WoU. Not only do stands have layered incorporeality, but Wonder of U is also made up of an abstract energy source that can persist beyond Toru's death as a law of the world. If I had to guess what kind of power could beat Wonder of U, it would have to be some high level existence erasure on a character who can survive or bypass calamity in some way. For example, Josuke used a non-existent attack that could bypass calamity and transcend its logic.
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Tbh I'd argue that GER just flat out works on Type 4 acausality, considering how it screwed over King Crimson's kit, which allowed Diavolo to not abide by fated events and actions that would have occurred within time erasure, plus how all processes and events in time erasure are erased too. GER didn't care and just negated all of diavolo's actions and abilities anyway, all whilst within said time erasure. (I'm also pretty sure that power nullification as a whole kinda just bypasses Type 4 acausality too as far as I'm aware)
Type 5 acausality is fair game tho
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Chritin
He/Him- 1,494
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That's why I said it kinda depends on what kind of Type 4, but yeah, generally Type 4 isn't a sure fire success.
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Alien X; Exists outside of spacetime continuum and born in the forge of creation that is outside of sync with all time which is a system of cause and effect in the verse. It is further confirmed by Professor Paradox once again that destroying all time, can destroy causality itself
Doomguy; Can casually exist in Hell/Jekkad, a timeless realm. Doomguy can kill Commander Keen back when he is a child without any apparent consequences, despite Keen being his father. Maykr's who can travel through time were helpless against Doom Guy. His existence, and him causing the destruction to the Maykrs was considered the only constant within infinite possibilities, unchanged by the flowing data of endless variability, despite the ability of Maykrs to travel through dimensions and time, The Khan Maykr can see infinite future possibilities and their changes yet she couldn't determine that he was going to be the Slayer. Davoth blessed Doomguy making it so his existence and him causing the destruction to the Maykrs was considered the only constant within infinite possibilities, unchanged by the flowing data of endless variability, despite the ability of Maykrs to travel through dimensions and time. Causing Doomguy's victory in the end no matter what happens, Due to the eternal struggle between good and evil, there will always be demons and the Slayer, their battle forever eternal. To the demons, he always has come, and always will. His fight against demons made him fight against the souls of the doomed, and the demons were made the slaves of doom. They were made the army of doom, and he brings certain doom upon them. This happens because he is the right hand of doom itself, he's the god of it; he is doom. He was fated to encounter the Icon of Sin.
Super Saiyan God; Super Saiyan God is stated to be an actual God. Beings at the level of a God work with a different logic of causality, despite Dragon Ball's cosmology solving time paradoxes by branching timeline into a new one to accommodate any changes in the past while still keeping the future unchanged
SpongeBob; Both SpongeBob and Patrick interacted with their baby selves with no problem. Can operate in various comic panels at once as well as manifest in the real world. His luck can bring several variations of him and his opponent to his location to help him, all previous versions of Spongebob are the same, He can still function normally in Randomland, a place where all of its laws change randomly and in a place disconnected from his reality
Can any of these Acausality T4 owners go up against Wou or Ger?
Chritin
He/Him- 1,494
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A lot of what's presented here is no different than the stuff that GER went up against with King Crimson. For example, GER can affect characters existing outside of time or in timeless voids and counteract fated outcomes of events. There are some other things here that aren't fully defined it seems, like Goku being able to exist on a different logic of causality but seemingly not transcending causality itself, or things that aren't even Type 4, such as Doomguy surviving the time paradox of killing Commander Keen being Type 1. With those cases it is hard to say how things would go. The best case for any of these characters I would honestly argue to be Spongebob.
For more context, I reccomend reading this snippet of Giorno's profile to really understand what all GER can affect.
Arkenis
They/Them- 25,178
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counter them
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Misogi's All Fiction claps both.
Chritin
He/Him- 1,494
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He probably beats WoU cause one of the staples of All Fiction is that it can negate laws. They also have similar stats, although Misogi still beats him out in AP I believe.
In terms of GER, idk they are kinda the same thing? To my knowledge, All Fiction (despite its name) is primarily causality manip like GER. The only major upside it is has is that's more open ended on what it can change, and is shown to bring him back from the dead. Beyond that though, GER is only a bit lower in terms of AP I believe, and outscales his speed like crazy so its not like he could be blitzed with an attack. I still leave it open as a possibility though.
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Pretty sure GER beats Kumagawa on here. It automatically stops what he does, on a higher level of infinite speed, worked on another form of causality manipulation, and can powernull his abilities. Kumagawa just dies...
Anyway, how to counter both? Ger itself pretty much counters WoU directly...so thats a start lol. It relays fated events that happen in a logical way to kill the target. Ger reverts any of that and pretty much removes the flow of calamity from giorno i'd say. So causality manip (kumagawa would in that case work as a good example too).
But seriously, resisting causality manip and law/durability neg is one for both. Powernull or powerful reality warping (we see this from overheaven), having more layers, being faster than they can activate, attacking from outside their range(harder to do that against ger I think). As for acausality 4, if you're outside the flow of causality, or basically work on a different one, you'd resist normal forms of it. Could argue this works on WoU as well, since that ability tends to work based on a series of events that work based on causes, that basically make effects fated to happen. Jojo is big on fate. Depends
Anyway, how to counter both? Ger itself pretty much counters WoU directly...so thats a start lol. It relays fated events that happen in a logical way to kill the target. Ger reverts any of that and pretty much removes the flow of calamity from giorno i'd say. So causality manip (kumagawa would in that case work as a good example too).
But seriously, resisting causality manip and law/durability neg is one for both. Powernull or powerful reality warping (we see this from overheaven), having more layers, being faster than they can activate, attacking from outside their range(harder to do that against ger I think). As for acausality 4, if you're outside the flow of causality, or basically work on a different one, you'd resist normal forms of it. Could argue this works on WoU as well, since that ability tends to work based on a series of events that work based on causes, that basically make effects fated to happen. Jojo is big on fate. Depends
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Chritin
He/Him- 1,494
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I agree with most, although I will clarify that standard reality warping may not work on cannon GER like we see in Eyes of Heaven. That's a weakness specific to that game. Not saying GER negs all reality warping, just it isn't a certified weakness.
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Yeah, I should clarify that there's a lot of variance to reality warping. Dio overheaven could do it cause his overwrite also factors in powernull, so it nullified gers rtz. The reality warping would at least have to have the feats for it anyway, since it's very broad. Otherwise something basic will also be reverted by ger
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hmm. I did not read part 8 so i don't have much knowledge about WoU but for Ger Type 4 aca would be fine ig he also have power null you need to have resistance to it
Alien x wouldn't been affected by GER's causality manipulation because of ACA type 4 and BDE type 1, in Ben 10 time and causality are connected x is immune to both of them technically X could bypass GER's causality manip and power null with his EE, his EE literally erases causality and beings who have power null in the verse and probably more reasons
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