GeneralSol16
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- Finn has the Finn Sword.
- Equal speed.
- Battle takes place in the Mushroom kingdom.
- "Late Game" and "Season 10" Link and Finn are being used, both 5-A.
Hero of Ooo:
Hero of Hyrule:
Incon:
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Master Adventurer
- Thread starter GeneralSol16
- Start date
Hero of Ooo:
Hero of Hyrule:
Incon:
Jason_Courne
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Skill and experience should tie, Finn just stat stomps, and resists a lot of Link's hax
So I think Finn wins low diff
- >AP is 135x and Strength is over 30 million x in Finn's favor (21.04 Yottatons and 85,000 tons of force vs 2848 Yottatons and 34 billion tons of force)
- >Finn can resist Soul Manip and Mind Manip
- >Finn has BFR as potential win con
- <Link has a massive arsenal including tons of healing items, and fairies allows him to survive a one shot kill
- <Has multiple ways to distract Finn,
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We went through this last thread. Purah Pad and medallions.
No they weren't, Link can just add them to literally everything now.
Don't make misinformed claims.
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something something bullet time + ancient blades I guess
Jason_Courne
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But since that's the case I'd swing to Link hax-diffing Finn with Ancient Blades and distractions
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Jason_Courne
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Ah- that's where it is... my bad
Aolphl
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Finn doesn't have Finn Sword on Season 10 key, but Night Sword.
Link can do anything against Statistic Reduction and Sealing?
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Range on each?
Elaborate on sealing too, the pad might just let him come back.
SBA also means Link is starting a fuckton distance away and is prob AOE 5x bow spamming so there's that unless you change starting distance.
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,730
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- #11
Wait, so it cannot be interchangeable? I thought it could, as all of them are standard equipment
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Not here, Finn is FTL+, Link, is not atm, so he can't blitz him even speed equal.
I'd be liable to go "yeah well he will be so whatever", but I forget if future revision/calc would put Link quicker for it not invalidate speed equal rules, I know it's FTL+, but pretty sure it's only like 10-15c, unless Finn is just upscaling, idk i didn't check kind of busy atm to check his exact value.
Uhm.
So he does he get in on Link spamming arrows.
I had to watch that like 5 times to realize the sealing is just the ghost cuffs.
I was expecting like some Mafuba or YGO shit, how is lad ever supposed to land that... Would it even matter too? Pretty sure Link could still fight somewhat with that, it'd just cut off bows or two-handing.
Would be hard to hit regardless given Link has at least one free hit with Sidon's shield that has a recharge, and Finn is gonna have to box 6 mfs at the same time.
I mean realistically if he only ever had one or the other at a time, we only say he had one or the other.
Aolphl
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Yes, these ghost chains at reducing characters' power into very minimum level, Hunson got sealed by these cuffs which is caused Hunson can't even able to use Soul Manipulation and Shapeshifting powers which is he was always using these in combat, also reduced physical stats like Attack Potency and Durability, Hunson was not able to beat ghosts which he is way above ghosts
Fair ig
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Ok but none of that is stopping the Master Sword, it has it's own AP regardless of Link
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Speed is equal, meaning both Finn, and Link have Relativistic combat speeds here, with Link having an approximately 3x speed amp from Bullet Time/Flurry Rush according to his profile.
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Dog, go read the speed equal rules. You're not allowed to use speed amps to win a match against a character who would otherwise be quicker than your amps even in speed equal.
We already had this talk about the whole "3x" thing, cut that shit out, it doesn't even make sense because you're literally not allowed to obtain multipliers from calcs anyway, ya had like 5 people tell you that isn't how that actually worked in the last Link match against I legitimately forget, but that isn't even how speed equal works at this point regardless. As much as I would like to say Link just amps and blitzes, he's straight up not allowed to here.
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I mean, it can still get added, we just ignore the speed amps and be fair about it. Not like Link needs them to win here when he's doing a 6v1 and is carpet bombing.
Bruh
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I mean aside from hax, Finn kinda just tanks everything Link throw at him and one tap him if Link ever tries to cross blade which i would assume Link tends to do against another swordsman as a knight
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Uh, sorry for pissing you off??
Anyways:
Since Finn is normally the faster character, only he gets impacted by the equalization. Link is 43% SoL normally, and 167% SoL with amps. As such he is 3.8x faster with amps. Since Link is the slower character, he isn't impacted under speed equalization rules. Ergo, he gets to keep his 3.8x amp. All I'm doing here is pointing how much faster he is under amps according to his profile, so I'm not sure what you're getting worked up over.
All this means is that the match can't be added, assuming Link's amps aren't restricted. Of course, if they are restricted, (which they probably can be under this rule):
then this match is still fair game.
GeneralSol16
He/Him- 1,730
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- Thread starter
- #22
I would restrict the amps if needed.
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Stop assuming people's emotions over text on a Vietnamese basket weaving forum, it's obnoxious.
If you think people pointing out very basic rules to you is them being mad, well whether or not it's true, take that as a red flag to stop if you think that's something that's actively pissing other people off?
What you're doing is actively arguing something the rules say not to do when you could just as easily skip all that and argue the fifty other ways and have the match check out without resorting to blatantly false victory methods our very rules call sus af so like, don't do that?
More along the lines of exhaustion due to you being presumptuous and making things far more difficult than they need to be.
They can't be restricted, doesn't effect tiering, but there's an even better solution. Just ignore them? Like is it actually that difficult for people to do a match without disingenuous behavior?
Like obviously you know it invalidates the match, you obviously know you can just argue the match normally without resorting to that?
"Oh well the rules clearly say this would invalidate the match, we can still have said match without relying on those amps tho, but eh I'm gonna argue it anyway", dude what are you doing?
Just ignore them like you're supposed to if used against someone normally quicker than the amps? That's how we usually solve this why would it be any different here?
Just stop overcomplicating it.
You're not allowed to restrict that, but we can also just like, not use them as an argument. Idk why ya'll overcomplicating this. This is less complex a solution than most Raiden matches even.
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Sure.
My only "argument" in this thread was a non-serious comment in Link's favor that is the equivalent of "goku solos". The rest of my replies have been citing the pages, and rules verbatim to try and clear up some confusion that came up as a result of it.
Basically all my posts in this thread revolve around me citing versus thread rules, and how they impact the match up, nothing more.
I posted an exception to the rule, which allows for the restrictions of abilities if they are a separate tier, and the user can consciously not use, both of which apply to Link's focused state.
So, I would appreciate it if you quit accusing me of being a malicious actor, when 90% of my activity on this thread has just been pointing out the rules verbatim.
Literally my only argument in favor of either side is a non-serious "flurry rush + decon hax = gg ez" comment, since that is how all Link threads seem to go. Everything else is just me citing what's literally on the pages. I'm not overcomplicating anything.
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Then stop opening with "sorry for pissing you off??" in the first place. If you are unsure about tone, don't assume it. Like you conveniently forgot right below because you decided to double down.
Saying it's "non-serious" isn't an excuse. You wrote it, you know the rules, why are you acting like "haha it ain't serious", changes what the words you wrote entail? It don't. The fact with what you actually posted is you didn't just drop one line and walk away. You went into "Link is 43% SoL, 167% with amps, therefore 3.8x faster, since he's the slower character he isn't impacted, ergo he keeps the 3.8x amp".
That isn't a "Goku solos"-like meme. That's you actively pushing forth a whole actual argument and explaining why and tripling down on it no less, the exact "amp-blitz under speed equal" angle in full earnest, with numbers, then acting confused why I'm saying cut that shit out? It isn't allowed here. If you meant it as a joke, then say it's a joke and stop arguing it into a rules-justified conclusion, like if it's a joke why are you noctupling down?
The problem isn't you quoting rules dude. The problem is you quoting the rules in a way that keeps pushing this shit toward a win method you openly know makes the match invalid when there's an easy solution otherwise.
If the goal is an addable matchup discussion, which why wouldn't it be?
Citing rules to justify an invalidating wincon, while pretending you're not making an argument, is the annoying part here, there isn't an "Exception", you're just straight up trying to argue a wincondition that isn't valid in this match when you don't even have to do so, thus invalidating the otherwise normal match.
As an aside, that applies to AP only btw, that's the "tier jump" restriction, not speed jumps.
Even worse, tf you mean Link can choose not to focus, unless he just ups and gives up, which is very much not allowed per SBA where he's actively trying to win, the ability occurs automatically under certain conditions. Hell Link himself evidently doesn't really know how it works based on the journals but that's besides the point so how is he going to restrict something he doesn't even know the full utility on? The only way he really can is if he just chooses to die basically, "don't dodge", "don't try to hit a target", "don't actually try to win", etc.
Honestly what's up with you and false information? Like at least check the game first before you say these things. Either way you're wrong on both accounts there.
You're talking about this right?
It is not fine to restrict abilities in a versus matchup, implicitly or expressly. Matches that are arranged this way should not be added to the character profiles, as they don't involve their full potential, and are only intended for casual entertainment.
- An exception would be if the restricted ability/technique has a separate tier from the main one, and is one the character can consciously restrict themselves from using. In this case, the match can be added.
I wasn't accusing you of anything, I'm stating simply what you're doing, intentional or not, it's extremely disingenuous. Do us both a favor and you stop assuming things.
Regardless, I'm not calling you evil. I'm calling the behavior disingenuous in-context.
When you know a line of argument invalidates addability and you push it anyway, then turn around and go "why are you getting worked up, I'm just quoting rules", like it or not, what you're writing and arguing here is exactly what I'm pointing out. Intent doesn't matter if the outcome contradicts given it's been made abundantly clear at this point.
You are overcomplicating it by doing two contradictory things at once lad
1. You present the "Link keeps the 3.8x amp under speed equal" chain in a match where you know it isn't a valid argument.
2. You also say you aren't arguing it and it's just jokes / rule quotes.
Pick one dude.
Right now you're ong doing the worst of both worlds: arguing/pushing the unaddable wincon, then acting like everyone else is the problem when you're told "hey dude shit isn't allowed, that isn't valid, argue a different method". Like is the goal here just to make it invalid on purpose or something?
Like just ignore the speed amp over Finn and argue the fifty other ways he could win, not like he needs it.
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You insinuated I was a frequent troublemaker regarding this exact issue, telling me to "cut that shit out", and how there were other people calling me out on that in the past. If you didn't want to come across as pissed off, then you could've just calmly explained your thoughts.
Let me clarify: The initial comment of "haha flurry rush gg" was non serious, given I hadn't even looked at Finn's profile at that point, and every match that involves Link seems to just conclude like that. It was only after you responded with the speed equal stuff that I responded with the rules. Until the conversation became, well, this.
I could get into the semantics of how my initial comment wasn't serious, but that seems like a waste of time. I do acknowledge how I came across as unclear though.
I'm not though? I literally acknowledged above that under speed equalization rules, this match-up is invalid, since Link explicitly has a technique that allows him to easily blitz Finn, when the latter wouldn't be blitzed by it under normal circumstances.
Neither the thread that applied it, nor the page explicitly say that that this only applies to AP, and frankly, I don't see why it would be, given both would result in equally stompy threads.
The way it's currently worded on the profile makes it so he can just proc it on a whim, rather than it being an uncontrollable ability that activates only under certain conditions (ie, dodging at the last moment, drawing a bow midair, etc). Hell, that, along with the bunch of other VS threads involving Link that argue exactly this is what prompted my initial "haha speed blitz ggs" comment.
In addition, we've seen Link fight without proccing Flurry Rush. Out of the dozens of cutscenes we've seen him fight in, not once (to my knowledge) have we seen him (nor any other character for that matter, save for Urbosa that one time she parried an attack) activate this ability. Hell, we've seen him dodge attacks at the last moment like here, and here, without activating Flurry Rush.
Sure, there's Bullet Time, but even then, we can see during Age of Calamity that it doesn't activate even when he does it in midair.
Neither the thread, nor the page explicitly say that that this exception only applies to AP, and frankly, I don't see why it would be.
I literally said that this match up isn't valid under normal circumstances, but it can be made valid if we restrict Link's speed amp, which is allowed thanks to the rule I quoted. So, I'm quite literally, doing what I can to ensure that this matchup is fair under VS Thread rules. So again, I'd appreciate it if you stopped suspecting me of ulterior motives.
How is this suggestion any different from restricting his amps? Like, you seem to be vehemently opposed to restricting his amps, while at the same time saying that we can just pretend it doesn't exist.
We aren't just going to ignore the elephant in the room that allows him to speedblitz Finn. Your suggestion requires that we ignore an easy win-con, simply because there are other ways Link can win, which, to be blunt, is just way overcomplicating things. Either way, he's not gonna be using his amps, but at least the rule I posted above potentially allows for a valid matchup under VS Thread rules.
There's only two ways I can see this matchup going:
A: We restrict Link's speed amps, which is (probably) allowed from the rule I've referenced countless times by now, therefore it's valid.
B: If we can't restrict his amps, then this matchup is invalid, since his amps allow him to blitz another character that he normally can't.
There is no "ignoring the speed amp", when it's a blatant win-con that, according to his profile, and the other Versus Theads I've seen, he can just proc at a whim.
Anyways, this will be my last comment here. I don't see anything productive coming out of this argument, which frankly, could've been avoided with a single exchange or two.
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