Ninjago DR S3 Part 2 Update (Adding Feats)

[Lloydblitzed]

DR S3 Part 2 is out (officially) so this thread is essentially about adding everything new from the totally not leaked beforehand Season

Spoiler: Spectral Ghosts Addition

Spectral Ghosts have their own seperate tab in the Ghost physiology, and should recieve all of the default ghosts abilities (because they are ghosts), as well as:

Soul Absorption: As shown here and as explained by Sora, Spectral Ghost can steal souls by touching their victims

Passive Weather Manipulation: Weather changes wherever they go

Passive Invisibility: Goes into multiple layers:

- Baseline: The Administration agents state they couldn't see their attackers, which includes one of the Spectral Forbidden Five and the Spectral Dragonians

- 1 layer: Arin needs a Prismatic Blade to see one of them, while he can see the invisible soul of Sensei Wu and a Spectral Forbidden Five without any blade

- 2 layer: Even with the presence of a Prismatic Blade's light, which allows the Ninjas to see the Spectral Dragonians, they can willingly turn invisible again (like add an enhanced invisibility above their normal invisibility)

Resistance to Elemental Powers: As stated by Wyldfyre

Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The Prismatic Blades, who are made of Soul Energy, barely hurts them

Weakness: Sunlight is their weakness. They also lack the weakness of Water like other ghosts

Spoiler: New Keys + New Feats

Essentially AP updates/upgrade. Will go throught this real quick for each char:

Jay (Dragon Rising Key): Overpowered and knocked out Zarkt (Same Zarkt also gave a beat down to Nya)

Ras (New key: Dual Icon): Stronger than before due to now having 2 icons, slammed Geo and low diffed Rontu
- Energy Manip: As shown here

Arin (New key: Prismatic Armor): The armor can tank Shatterspin, which should make him scale to High 4-C Rox, and Nokt attacks
- Resistance: Soul Absorption (The armor protects them from the Spectral Ghost soul hax due to being made of prismatic steel)

Kur (Base form Key): With Shatterspin, fodderize Sora and Frak (Basically add to the "High 4-C" section of her page)

All Forbidden 5: Gets a "Spectral Form" key which will include:

• All their feats in their Spectral Form (like this and this, tho they aren't stronger than before)
• Spectral Ghost Physiology (because they are spectral ghosts)

Ras (Red Form): Knocks Sora and Arin off a cliff and easily overpower their Spinjitzu amped selves

Arin (Post Tournament of Sources key): Manages to knock down Ras with Spinjitzu

Arin and Lloyd (New key: Connected with the Arc Dragon of Focus): Command the Arc Dragon of Focus, and togheter while amping the ADOF, manages to kill Thunderfang. They should be Low 1-C due to ADOF being an avatar of a Source Dragon (who is already accepted as Low 1-C), being able to kill Thunderfang who was strong enough to kill all of the Source Dragons at this point of time, and being considered the Source Dragon best chance against him

Spoiler: Reveal Blade

Reveal Blades are basically upgraded version of the Prismatic Blade. The blade and their abilities should be added to Kai, Wyldfyre and Frak's profiles (because they are the only users of these weapons):

- Light Manipulation: They can expand light to reveal hidden souls

- Enhanced Soul Manipulation and Immortality Negation (Type 7): They can permanently kill ghosts, which is displayed by Kai and Frak

- All abilities of the Prismatic Blade (Self explanatory. Those abilities were already accepted and are already in profiles so I don't think I'll need to cite them again here)

Spoiler: Bum ah "Oudated" status for Source Dragon

Remove "Oudated" status on Source Dragons (Litterally don't know who added this) with some changes:

Remove scanless ah ability

Existence Erasure (Can erase all life in a Realm by destroying it)

Split him in multiple profiles (Source Dragon of Energy, of Life, of Strength, of Flow, of Focus, of Motion and of Balance). They are all at the same lvl of power but are different sources of elements, and thus some different elemental abilities which should be split between them

And finally, they should have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3), due to being able to affect the Balance of elements, which when broken will affect all the Elemental Masters accross the Merged Lands, as shown with Lloyd. They also represent the source of every single elemental powers in the Merged Realms

Agree: @Vietthai96 (Every abilities besides "Enhanced Soul Manipulation and Immortality Negation (Type 7)" as he thinks its just Soul Damage), @Godernet (Agree to everything and share the same view as Viett for the Reveal Blade), @Imaginym (Agrees with the other staffs)
Disagree:
Neutral:

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

I disagree that spectral beings are ghosts. Ghosts were the cursed people in the Cursed Realm. Spectral beings are just what dead people are under nee Merged Realms, it seems. So I don’t think that giving them all of the abilities should be a thing, especially since they show differences (Soul Suckers have passive invisibility, while ghosts need to activate it.

I still don’t think that Post-Tournament of Sources should be a separate key. Just merge it with base Arin. That’s like having S1-S4 Kai, SoE Kai, and post-SoE Kai. It feels really unnecessary.

The rest is good.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

I disagree that spectral beings are ghosts.

As shown with the F5, they are clearly dead spirits

Ghosts were the cursed people in the Cursed Realm.

You are confusing Ghosts with Ghost Warriors here

Spectral beings are just what dead people are under nee Merged Realms, it seems. So I don’t think that giving them all of the abilities should be a thing, especially since they show differences

They can fly like ghosts, change from tail to foot like ghosts, possess the same enhanced sense as ghosts, and have the same light manip as regular ghosts

(Soul Suckers have passive invisibility, while ghosts need to activate it.

Spectral Ghosts can also activate an invisibility ability like ghosts

 

[Vietthai96]

i will only evaluate abilities, not good at evaluate those AP and Key/Tabber upgrade since idk the verse

Anyway, the abilities look fine to me

Existence Erasure (Can erase all life in a Realm by destroying it)

Yeah, remove this, not only it is scanless, but also the reason for it is utterly bad

 

[DavidTPPM]

Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The Prismatic Blades, who are made of Soul Energy, barely hurts them

Something being made out of "soul energy" doesn't necessarily mean it damages the soul directly. This is only soul resistance if the spectral whatevers are pure souls without a physical body. In which case I think a better justification would be something on the lines of
"can withstand attacks capable of hurting souls"


And for CM3 unless the balance of elements or whatever it's called is already accepted as a type 3 concept I think it's better to leave it for a separate thread. CM is a pretty controversial ability so you probably shouldn't clump it with a huge amount of other changes. (if it already is accepted as CM3 then pretend I didn't say anything lmao)

 

[Vietthai96]

also forgot some parts but:

Enhanced Soul Manipulation and Immortality Negation (Type 7): They can permanently kill ghosts, which is displayed by Kai and Frak

Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The Prismatic Blades, who are made of Soul Energy, barely hurts them

This is just at best soul damage thing, like what David have said

 

[Ultimate-Rex1]

Resistance to Soul Manipulation: The Prismatic Blades, who are made of Soul Energy, barely hurts them

Also Ectoplasm Manipulation.

[/SPOILER]

Spoiler: Bum ah "Oudated" status for Source Dragon

Remove "Oudated" status on Source Dragons (Litterally don't know who added this) with some changes:

Remove scanless ah ability


Split him in multiple profiles (Source Dragon of Energy, of Life, of Strength, of Flow, of Focus, of Motion and of Balance). They are all at the same lvl of power but are different sources of elements, and thus some different elemental abilities which should be split between them

And finally, they should have Conceptual Manipulation (Type 3), due to being able to affect the Balance of elements, which when broken will affect all the Elemental Masters accross the Merged Lands, as shown with Lloyd. They also represent the source of every single elemental powers in the Merged Realms

Also Abstract Existence (Type 1 [Conceptual Type 2 & 3]; Source Dragons are concepts of elements, they hold the very fabric of the existence. Source Dragons are origin and source of elemental powers, if elements powers was damaged, all elemental masters in all realms would be affected. Source Dragons are exist in their dimension, they are exist before First Spinjitzu Master and don't showing any signs of aging)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

As shown with the F5, they are clearly dead spirits

Yeah, not cursed dead souls.

You are confusing Ghosts with Ghost Warriors here

Ghost warriors are the army of Preeminent, ghosts are just cursed dead beings.

They can fly like ghosts, change from tail to foot like ghosts, possess the same enhanced sense as ghosts, and have the same light manip as regular ghosts

They can have abilities that are same, does not mean that ghosts have spectral beings’ abilities or vice versa.

Spectral Ghosts can also activate an invisibility ability like ghosts

It’s passive.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Something being made out of "soul energy" doesn't necessarily mean it damages the soul directly. This is only soul resistance if the spectral whatevers are pure souls without a physical body. In which case I think a better justification would be something on the lines of
"can withstand attacks capable of hurting souls"

also forgot some parts but:


This is just at best soul damage thing, like what David have said

Yeah, the spectral dudes are souls, and Arin can normally slice down souls with the normal Prismatic Blade, which is why I thought it slid that

And for CM3 unless the balance of elements or whatever it's called is already accepted as a type 3 concept I think it's better to leave it for a separate thread. CM is a pretty controversial ability so you probably shouldn't clump it with a huge amount of other changes. (if it already is accepted as CM3 then pretend I didn't say anything lmao)

Its technically already accepted as the Source of all EPs, but I just want to CM for this

 

[OrangeFR]

Agreeing with Orange Guy rn

 

[Lloydblitzed]

Yeah, not cursed dead souls.

Ghost warriors are the army of Preeminent, ghosts are just cursed dead beings.

Not all ghosts are necesserally cursed

They can have abilities that are same, does not mean that ghosts have spectral beings’ abilities or vice versa.

Never said all ghosts in general have Spectral abilities, I was arguing that Spectral Ghosts have all of their stuff in addition to their own

It’s passive.

They should at least gain Flight and Cloth Manip as it works similar to ghosts, as well as Incorporeality, as Spectral Beings are referred as hidden souls (and the fact they lack a physical body) when they describe the powers of Prismatic Blades

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Not all ghosts are necesserally cursed

They are. Ghosts are specifically those who died and went to the Cursed Realm. Dead but not Cursed went to Departed Realm, and are called Departed Souls.

Never said all ghosts in general have Spectral abilities, I was arguing that Spectral Ghosts have all of their stuff in addition to their own

They can have abilities that are same, does not mean that ghosts have spectral beings’ abilities or vice versa.

They should at least gain Flight and Cloth Manip as it works similar to ghosts, as well as Incorporeality, as Spectral Beings are referred as hidden souls (and the fact they lack a physical body) when they describe the powers of Prismatic Blades

I don't mind them having abilities they have shown. Just not assume all of them.

Cloth Manip as it works similar to ghosts

How is this Cloth Manip? Maybe I'm not seeing smth...

Also to note, Spectral Lands are a result of merge of Departed Realm and Cursed Realm, meaning that Spectral Beings are mix of Departed Souls and Ghosts. This explains why they have some properties of regular ghosts but not others. Given this, I believe we shouldn't really assume they have all of their abilities.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They are. Ghosts are specifically those who died and went to the Cursed Realm. Dead but not Cursed went to Departed Realm, and are called Departed Souls.

Way of the Departed references the Departed as Ghosts

'Cole?!?'. The voice saying my name is filled with disbelief. "I'd heard that you were departed; a ghost . . . gone."

Most of these guys are from the Departed Realm possessing bodies yet are portrayed as Ghosts

The Original Master of Amber who got locked in another dimension and then went to the Departed Realm is referenced as a ghost

So "Ghost" status expands to Departed Realm souls too

How is this Cloth Manip? Maybe I'm not seeing smth...

Them being able to switch from tail to legs like normal ghosts

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Way of the Departed references the Departed as Ghosts

This guy just says “I heard you are departed”. As in “I heard you died”, I presume.

Most of these guys are from the Departed Realm possessing bodies yet are portrayed as Ghosts

They can’t even leave the body like the regular ghosts do, so highly doubt.

The Original Master of Amber who got locked in another dimension and then went to the Departed Realm is referenced as a ghost

Why couldn’t he be cursed?

So "Ghost" status expands to Departed Realm souls too

I don’t think so, especially since the Preeminent looked gray when she was departed unlike her ghost form which looked green. So they are clearly different.

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They can’t even leave the body like the regular ghosts do, so highly doubt.

They litterally did once they got slain, we see them travel out of the teapot to go possess the dolls, and they also needed to kill the Ninjas within the time of eclispe so they have 0 reason to possess anything else to begin with

Yang: (He takes control of his portrait.) My magic has brought you back from the Departed Realm to Ninjago, but you can only remain for the duration of the eclipse. Unless...

Why couldn’t he be cursed?

The story never impies that. Yet he looks like a ghost

I don’t think so, especially since the Preeminent looked gray when she was departed unlike her ghost form which looked green. So they are clearly different.

Morro has not changed even after moving to the Departed Realm. Many beings who haven't step a foot in the Cursed Realm became ghosts, such as Cole

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

They litterally did once they got slain

They just died. Actual ghosts can freely leave the body whenever they want.

we see them travel out of the teapot to go possess the dolls

It wasn’t them but Yang who did it. When awakened, they "woke up" and had no idea of what happened and how they came back to life.

and they also needed to kill the Ninjas within the time of eclispe so they have 0 reason to possess anything else to begin with

They could at least possess another Ninja to kill another Ninja, or possess something more powerful than just museum dummies?

The story never impies that.

He is pretty evil.

Morro has not changed even after moving to the Departed Realm.

Morro is not a ghost anymore but is a departed soul. His colors are very different from his season 5 self.
This is consistent with my Preeminent point.

Many beings who haven't step a foot in the Cursed Realm became ghosts, such as Cole

That was due to Yang’s temple spell that transforms people into ghosts which is a curse. You are acting as if Cole actually died which is not the case.

 

[DavidTPPM]

Yeah, the spectral dudes are souls, and Arin can normally slice down souls with the normal Prismatic Blade, which is why I thought it slid that

Sure.

Its technically already accepted as the Source of all EPs, but I just want to CM for this

Well being the source of something doesn't inherently mean it's a type 3 concept

 

[Lloydblitzed]

They just died. Actual ghosts can freely leave the body whenever they want.

Also Morro: Willingly leaves back to Departed Realm....

It wasn’t them but Yang who did it. When awakened, they "woke up" and had no idea of what happened and how they came back to life.

They could at least possess another Ninja to kill another Ninja, or possess something more powerful than just museum dummies?

That's just headcanon territory. Why would they go find one of the split across Ninjago when they have a limited time to kill one of the Ninja

Morro is not a ghost anymore but is a departed soul. His colors are very different from his season 5 self.

He is still a ghost lol. He just not a Curse one anymore. He didn't even change color and was just adapted to the DR design, just like Jay's lightning looking yellow now

That was due to Yang’s temple spell that transforms people into ghosts which is a curse. You are acting as if Cole actually died which is not the case.

So your "all ghosts are from the Cursed Realm" argument is fundamently wrong lol. Only Ghost Warriors or people that directly got banished in the Realm are from there

 

[Godernet]

One comment before I give my stance on the thread as a whole...

Spoiler: Invisibility Layering

Arin needs a Prismatic Blade to see one of them, while he can see the invisible soul of Sensei Wu and a Spectral Forbidden Five without any blade

In this bit of Layering, you mention that Arin can naturally see the souls of Sensei Wu and a Spectral Forbidden Five but is there any proof they were trying to be invisible in those instances because in the Ghost Physiology we have this...

Invisibility (Ghosts can turn themselves invisible)

With a GIF that shows Ghost Cole turning himself visible and invisible.

So do the Ghosts have passive invisibility, or can they just turn it on and off for extended periods of time whenever they want to?

And if a Ghost in Ninjago's default state isn't necessarily invisible, do we have proof that Wu or the Spectral Forbidden Five were invisible in those examples with Arin? Lloyd is fine; in that instance, he was the only one who saw Wu.

Although even with that, it wouldn't be a layer yet, Lloyd would get...

Enhanced Vision: Can see very clearly from incredible distances. Many different types of eyesight enhancement may occur:

• Neutral Vision: The ability to see something invisible.

And the Prismatic Blade would get...

Invisibility Negation via its Blade and Light.

With the Spectral Dragonians that can turn invisible despite being in the Blade's light, there is 1 Layer of Invisibility.

Ghostly Invis (Baseline Ability) ->Lloyd and the Prismatic Blade (Baseline Resistance) -> Spectral Dragonian (1-Layered Ability)

Let me know if I'm misunderstanding anything about how Ghosts work in Ninjago.

Otherwise, I do agree with Viet's stance on Enhanced Soul Manip and Immortality Negation here.

Everything else is fine

 

[Lloydblitzed]

One comment before I give my stance on the thread as a whole...

Wu is invisible by default to many as shown when he stands still in the middle of a battlefield with nobody except Lloyd noticing him and when only Cole (who at the time lived with many other people) is the only one that hears Wu despite him calling his name from away in the valley. Same thing with a Spectral F5 as he was considered invisible when Drix (an F5) and the other Dragonians jumped Administration Agents. However, normal ghosts (green ones) aren't passively invisible, which what makes the Spectral ones different. So essentially:

Wu's invisibility (baseline) + F5 invisibility (baseline too) -> Arin enhanced vision (Baseline) -> Dragonian passive invisibility (1 layer of invisibility) -> Prismatic Blade (1 layer of enhanced vision) -> Dragonian layered ability (2 layers)

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

Stuff

Tbf I don’t think there’s much point of debating it since two staffs agreed seemingly without reading my args anyways.

So I’ll just changed that in my own CRT

 

[Godernet]

I see, with that added context Layered Invisibility is probably fine then

Tbf I don’t think there’s much point of debating it since two staffs agreed seemingly without reading my args anyways.

So I’ll just changed that in my own CRT

I’ll take a look at your comment in a moment.

 

[Imaginym]

I was asked to comment here. I don't really know this verse, so although the opening post's text seems reasonable, I'll probably defer to the stances of other staff, or in the events of staff disagreement &/or uncertainty, to the Knowledgeable Members, & provide my tentative approval on such basises.

If there's anything in particular in this my input would be valued on, I would appreciate it being indicated.

 

[TheOrangeGuy09]

If there's anything in particular in this my input would be valued on, I would appreciate it being indicated.

I'd say to my arguments over here:

I disagree that spectral beings are ghosts. Ghosts were the cursed people in the Cursed Realm. Spectral beings are just what dead people are under nee Merged Realms, it seems. So I don’t think that giving them all of the abilities should be a thing, especially since they show differences (Soul Suckers have passive invisibility, while ghosts need to activate it.

I still don’t think that Post-Tournament of Sources should be a separate key. Just merge it with base Arin. That’s like having S1-S4 Kai, SoE Kai, and post-SoE Kai. It feels really unnecessary.

They are. Ghosts are specifically those who died and went to the Cursed Realm. Dead but not Cursed went to Departed Realm, and are called Departed Souls.

Also to note, Spectral Lands are a result of merge of Departed Realm and Cursed Realm, meaning that Spectral Beings are mix of Departed Souls and Ghosts. This explains why they have some properties of regular ghosts but not others. Given this, I believe we shouldn't really assume they have all of their abilities.

I don’t think so, especially since the Preeminent looked gray when she was departed unlike her ghost form which looked green. So they are clearly different.

Morro is not a ghost anymore but is a departed soul. His colors are very different from his season 5 self.
This is consistent with my Preeminent point.

Basically, my poiny is that Spectral Beings are a merge of Ghosts (cursed dead souls) and Departed Souls (just dead souls), thus they share some similarities with both while also having differences. This would mean that we can't assume that Spectral Beings have every single ghost ability. They just should have the abilities that they actually had shown.