Shinza banshou discussion thread~Revival~

[HypotheticMage]

Anyway, only beriah reinhard should scale since that was the only way he could have harmed him

Are we sure about this? The only time Reinhard damaged Methuselah was after he had already been wounded to the point of death due to Wilhelm's plan. And I'm not going to lie, but I don't remember anywhere that Reinhard was mentioned as a possible match for him.

 

[Infera28]

Welcome to the light. Anyway, only beriah reinhard should scale since that was the only way he could have harmed him

I had forgotten that one scan but the main problem I've had with it in the past is that 5-A and 3-A Methuselah are accepted on the basis that each night is equivalent to the destruction of half the planet, yet this feat is actually based on hax, not AP. If I want to be strict, the fact that it was said that the dark regions are part of Methuselah and move with him is also ambiguous, and it can only mean that the darkness of those regions moves, not the whole region, so I would actually prefer tier 6 for Reinhard and Methuselah. Anyway, I don't think I'll make a thread for Reinhard and Methuselah tier again, because the previous thread gave me so much stress.

I Believe that Base Reinhard will be just as powerful as Bri'ah Reinhard or extremely close to it; Bri'ah is activated and maintained by burning only a few souls / a small amount of power, yet Base Reinhard also has millions of souls that he can easily use in different forms (Spiritual Armor, Attack, Hax and etc); We also saw in the Wilhelm fight that if an Apostle wanted to, they could even manipulate and burn all their souls at Assiah level with every attack; and we saw Reinhard destroy Methuselah with one single blast from LLT; We also saw later that Yetzirah Ren and Kai could damage and kill Bri'ah Rusalka, so the gap between Yetzirah and Bri'ah isn't too far.

Are we sure about this? The only time Reinhard damaged Methuselah was after he had already been wounded to the point of death due to Wilhelm's plan. And I'm not going to lie, but I don't remember anywhere that Reinhard was mentioned as a possible match for him.

In fact, it was implied that Methuselah was holding back against Wilhelm throughout the fight and did not use his arcane powers until the last moment. I won't say that he was dying, he still had at least millions of nights that were later destroyed by Reinhard and then Methuselah still survived for minutes and defeated Wilhelm in combat. It was said that Reinhard could break Methuselah in quality, quantity and status

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

In fact, it was said that Methuselah was holding back against Wilhelm throughout the fight and did not use his arcane powers until the last moment. I won't say that he was dying, he still had at least millions of nights that were later destroyed by Reinhard and then Methuselah still survived for minutes and defeated Wilhelm in combat.

Just to point this out, in the original JP ver for IkaBey, the number of nights Meth's was described even as he was getting ass-blasted/face-blasted by Reinhard's Lanze (Yeah~ owo) was said as Nayuta (Video I screenshot for reference. If you ask or point out, yes the quality is not good. The poster could only get it to 360p for some reason but don't blame them for that). It's also been the same said everytime Methuselah's nights/darkness he embodies also gets described, such as when he boogey'd man all of Europe (Vid reference) to when Schreiber was throwing a fit and Meth is smack talking him (Vid reference).

The kanji for Nayuta, ofc, you want to look for is 那由多 as the original IkaBey used. Unless I miscounted, it was like...3 times it was used, all to the way to the aforementioned ass-blasting/face-blasting Reinhard gave him?

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Are we sure about this? The only time Reinhard damaged Methuselah was after he had already been wounded to the point of death due to Wilhelm's plan. And I'm not going to lie, but I don't remember anywhere that Reinhard was mentioned as a possible match for him.

It was said by two characters.

One by Wilhelm, who said that Reinhard had the necessary traits to break Methuselah through "quality, quantity, and status" (Vid reference. 1:08:13 mark if time stamper doesn't work) as he was fighting Meth while being boosted by Glads high-quality souls.

Another was by Karl Kraft/Mercurius when he and Reinhard were chilling while watching everyone get slaughtered like lamb, where Reinhard and Karl brought up the "two methods in beating Methuselah". One by "adhering him to logic" and the other by "fighting him with all of one's might". (Vid Reference. 57:40 mark if time stamper doesn't work).

In the same scan with Karl and Reinhard, Karl notes that Reinhard would have been able to just do the latter had he stepped into the fight with Meth at any point but would have nulled the other method. But Reinhard, being "Commander-like", wanted to win a battle using "all fronts", hence he didn't go until Wilhelm went and had his fight to later did his thing "via logic" method.

Hope this clears it up cuz it's only these two guys who said "Reinhard got this if he fought him".

 

[Infera28]

Just to point this out, in the original JP ver for IkaBey, the number of nights Meth's was described even as he was getting ass-blasted/face-blasted by Reinhard's Lanze (Yeah~ owo) was said as Nayuta (Video I screenshot for reference. If you ask or point out, yes the quality is not good. The poster could only get it to 360p for some reason but don't blame them for that). It's also been the same said everytime Methuselah's nights/darkness he embodies also gets described, such as when he boogey'd man all of Europe (Vid reference) to when Schreiber was throwing a fit and Meth is smack talking him (Vid reference).

The kanji for Nayuta, ofc, you want to look for is 那由多 as the original IkaBey used. Unless I miscounted, it was like...3 times it was used, all to the way to the aforementioned ass-blasting/face-blasting Reinhard gave him?

Thank you for clarifying. May I know which part of the story is this statement based on?

A single night's mystery requires the destruction of half the planet

I guess someone who read the Japanese version will know more about that statement. The only thing I saw in the English version was this scan, which talks about some kind of ying and yang hax, which I don't know what it has to do with AP.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Thank you for clarifying. May I know which part of the story is this statement based on?



I guess someone who read the Japanese version will know more about that statement. The only thing I saw in the English version was this scan, which talks about some kind of ying and yang hax, which I don't know what it has to do with AP.

"May I know which part of the story is this statement based on?"

Are you asking if it's on hax or AP? Was confused by what you mean here.

 

[Infera28]

Are you asking if it's on hax or AP? Was confused by what you mean here.

Yes, because Methuselah's AP is scaled to this A single night's mystery requires the destruction of half the planet

 

[HypotheticMage]

snip

Yeah, that cleared that up. I must have missed that lol. Thanks!

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yes, because Methuselah's AP is scaled to this A single night's mystery requires the destruction of half the planet

Ah. I would say it's AP considering the nights he embodies are a part of him. Just like how a person or animal moves around, their shadow moves with them. That would be akin to what Methuselah does only way more destructive. Though I can see why it may seem like hax cuz whatever Methuselah does, it can kinda go...all over the place? Sometimes he makes those jaws things, and they can clearly physically F someone up or make that night prison thing he sealed Machina in...or something. IDK. I would say they're as physical and can have an effect on material stuff if Methuselah wields it to.

Depends on what the rest of y'all would say tho, I'm just getting whatever to help clarify stuff.

As for that in the original, it does say "yin-yang" (Video reference. 3:18 if time stamp don't work) too but I can see why the localization put light and darkness as I'm sure that's what it alludes to anyway.

Spoiler

(Rough TL)

As a result, the answer was quite simple if Ludwig were to freely move about while intentionally exerting his power.

All of the darkness in the areas where the morning shall never arrive would be stripped. It would turn into a void of neither yin and yang. In other words, it would vanish.

Thus, if he went from East to West...to all over the globe as he pleased, the world would be destroyed.

Of course, Ludwig had no intentions of doing such a thing. But he was a being who certainly had the power to do so.

 

[Qliphoth_Bacikal]

Yeah, that cleared that up. I must have missed that lol. Thanks!

Ah, no worries.

VN's are long to go through so I don't blame ya xD

 

[PrinceofPein]

@Infera28 to add to what qliphoth said, think of it as stability feats

This is a type of feat where a character's existence, energy, presence, or any given factor from them sustains a structure on any given scale. And through their sustenance, their statistics are subsequently tiered to being at the level of power that is relative to the given scale of the structure they sustain.

Of all the requirements, this is what I think is vague and he still qualifies.

Requirement 2: Prove that the stabilized structure is being directly sustained by the power of the character and not from the character's abilities, life force, existence, magical properties, or any unknown connection that is independent of their statistics.

Practically, his darkness are not independent of his statistics, he is that darkness itself, so he would scale.
Which is why the part where all nights he has accumulated causes the destruction of the universe is an environmental destruction.

 

[Infera28]

I probably won't be able to get my point across so you can ignore me, but I'll try

Well, it is true that the nights of Methuselah have physical effects, but it was said that if Methuselah removed them from the regions where there was no morning light, then there will be no more light and darkness there, so a kind of void will be created and those regions will be erased. This is saying that the reason for the erasure or destruction of those regions will be the lack of light / yin and darkness / yang, not that all the regions that are covered by darkness will suddenly be physically removed by force from the earth along with the darkness. This is actually saying that Methuselah only controls the darkness of those regions and nothing more.

For example, suppose my house is covered by night. Now the whole mass and energy of my house is not part of the night and is not sustained by it, but if the night is removed, and there is no day either, then my house will be destroyed in a void of nothingness.

It is true that nights have physical effects, but nights are actually metaphysical things that affect physical things to an unknown extent. We cannot say that if the night covers a house, then now the whole mass and energy of that house is a part of the night, but due to its metaphysical nature, the night conceptually, mentally and physically affects the house to an unknown extent. Concepts are metaphysical things but they also effect physical things too. The reason for the destruction of the universe is that if yang / darkness is removed, it will damage the duality system, because yin without yang is meaningless.

So now change Reinhard and Methuselah tier to 6-B so they become the most overpowered 6-B on the site.