The devourer really changes the game EBF5 CRT

[Ikelaggan]

Devourer
Plot Manipulation: The devourer views the world as simulation that he has ran for the 5th time, he's changed prior roles of major villains like Godcat and Akron to lesser ones in the story.
Law and Fate Manipulation: Is implied to be able to control the laws of nature to make the universe and everyone in it clockwork without random variables. He will always reset the world.

The players
Passive law Manipulation via probability Manipulation: The players as just conscious beings bring chaos and uncertainty to the devourer's system and obey no laws, even exploiting the very laws he's created.
Plot and fate Manipulation via the player: who is canonically controlling their fates to make them succeed in their journey and defies the devourer's control over the system through the player outside of EBF universe.
Agreed: @Psychomaster35 @Lonkitt @DarkDragonMedeus @LordGriffin1000
Neutral:
Disagree:

 

[Thelastmlg]

Plot Manipulation: No, nothing there implies a metafictional view of the world, him treating the timeline as a simulation is just his control over it, and reducing them to lesser roles is also part of the control, nothing implies control over the narrative, this is at best causality manipulation and maybe depowering hax, but looking at at his profile pic, he resets stuff by deleting the universe and creating it again it seems.

Law and Fate Manipulation: he was referring to removing free will, as he would achieve the clockwork universe by "turning everyone into mindless automatons" that obey without question and don't act freely, i think it leans too much on achieving control over their minds than directly controlling the laws themselves, also reseting the world is time manipulation.

Passive Negation to law Manipulation via probability Manipulation: He was talking about councious beings as a whole there, and considering his system revolves around everyone acting mindless and predictable, i think this is just him talking about how they conflict with his desired clockwork universe, he talks very fancily too but all points towards the mind of sapient beings anyway.

i can see possible resistance to law manipulation though

Resistance to plot and fate Manipulation: Natalie said they could do it if they defeated the devourer, this is not literal, this is her refering to the fact that if he wins, everyone will lose their free will and thus lose control over their lifes, besides the fact that their lives are erased and restarted by him too, so this is not a resistance, just a goal.

the player is not bound to the "resets", and since he controls the characters, he can lead them to defeat the devourer, this does not grant them any resistance, this is just the devourer not being able to directly affect the player, and the player being the one to, well, play the game itself everytime, so this is just referring to the player being higher dimensional.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Plot Manipulation: No, nothing there implies a metafictional view of the world, him treating the timeline as a simulation is just his control over it, and reducing them to lesser roles is also part of the control, nothing implies control over the narrative, this is at best causality manipulation and maybe depowering hax, but looking at at his profile pic,

The Glitch (EBF5)

For its appearance in EBF4, see The Glitch (EBF4) "YOU THERE BEHIND THE COMPUTER SCREEN- STOP PLAYING Epic Battle Fantasy 5 AND GO OUTSIDE. IT'S TIME TO TAKE A BREAK- I'LL TAKE CARE OF THINGS HERE." ―The Glitch, bypassing the fourth wall, EBF5 The Glitch (real name unintelligible) is an optional...

epicbattlefantasy.fandom.com

the entire existence of the glitch disproves the game not being a meta fictional simulation in its entirety. especially matt beating the hell out it crashes the simulation and the glitch says they can't be deleted cause their part of the game and lives in its code. even the devourer acknowledges the simulation as a game

Law and Fate Manipulation: he was referring to removing free will, as he would achieve the clockwork universe by "turning everyone into mindless automatons" that obey without question and don't act freely, i think it leans too much on achieving control over their minds than directly controlling the laws themselves, also reseting the world is time manipulation.

expect they exploit the very laws he's created which honestly makes it more law manipulation on a higher layer than say negation. I'm also not referring to just him resetting the world, I'm referring to him being an opposition that will always rest the world which even devourer knows he can't do anything to the "guardian" except block their progress.

 

[Psychomaster35]

This seems fine. By the way, wouldn’t the players get passive Fate Manipulation from them being controlled by the Player who is canonically controlling their fates to make them succeed in their journey?

 

[Ikelaggan]

Bump

 

[Ikelaggan]

Bump

 

[Lonkitt]

Looks good

 

[Deidalius]

The Devourer's plot manipulation seems more like reality warping since changing the role of other characters acts more like reality warping rather than plot manipulation.

Everything else is fine though. I agree with everything else

 

[Psychomaster35]

The Devourer's plot manipulation seems more like reality warping since changing the role of other characters acts more like reality warping rather than plot manipulation.

Technically this can link to plot manipulation (As a matter of fact, it’s straight up that) since he’s changing the role they have in the story from major to minor characters. Even then, the EBF1 ending had Matt and Natalie killed off only for that to be retconned at the start of EBF2 by saying they were injured instead, showing the Devourer had to have been involved in rewriting that.

 

[Deidalius]

Technically this can link to plot manipulation (As a matter of fact, it’s straight up that) since he’s changing the role they have in the story from major to minor characters. Even then, the EBF1 ending had Matt and Natalie killed off only for that to be retconned at the start of EBF2 by saying they were injured instead, showing the Devourer had to have been involved in rewriting that.

That seems to be more related to him resetting the timelines rather than him rewriting the plot.

 

[Ikelaggan]

That seems to be more related to him resetting the timelines rather than him rewriting the plot.

Tbh, the ebf1 ending getting retconned in ebf2 can also be interpreted as the player manipulating the plot by continuing to play the game. the old games still kinda pseudo exist in ebf5 as weirdly fictional flash games in the data bunker that the players are able to just immersion themselves into.

 

[DarkDragonMedeus]

Looks alright.

 

[LordGriffin1000]

Hmm. I'm leaning towards agreeing with everything but why passive negation and not just resistance?

 

[Ikelaggan]

Hmm. I'm leaning towards agreeing with everything but why passive negation and not just resistance?

I definitely changing it to more just law Manipulation via probability Manipulation since it's more a higher layer thing. But it's more than a resistance since the devourer complains that the players are abusing the laws he's created while also bringing in the random variables he was trying to keep out.

 

[Thelastmlg]

The Glitch (EBF5)

For its appearance in EBF4, see The Glitch (EBF4) "YOU THERE BEHIND THE COMPUTER SCREEN- STOP PLAYING Epic Battle Fantasy 5 AND GO OUTSIDE. IT'S TIME TO TAKE A BREAK- I'LL TAKE CARE OF THINGS HERE." ―The Glitch, bypassing the fourth wall, EBF5 The Glitch (real name unintelligible) is an optional...

epicbattlefantasy.fandom.com

the entire existence of the glitch disproves the game not being a meta fictional simulation in its entirety. especially matt beating the hell out it crashes the simulation and the glitch says they can't be deleted cause their part of the game and lives in its code. even the devourer acknowledges the simulation as a game

expect they exploit the very laws he's created which honestly makes it more law manipulation on a higher layer than say negation. I'm also not referring to just him resetting the world, I'm referring to him being an opposition that will always rest the world which even devourer knows he can't do anything to the "guardian" except block their progress.

glitches, simulations, games and codes are not fiction, they are data, if your reality is made of data, that doesn't mean changing those aspects is plot manipulation, that's just reality warping and data manipulation.

considering he said his clockwork universe would mean everyone following the laws of nature without acting freely, those are the laws they are exploiting, that doesn't indicate control by them, just that they utilized what he had created against him.

I'm referring to him being an opposition that will always rest the world

which is a massive extrapolation of the actual dialogue and context, he put the previous bosses as minor ones and is now the true final boss, besides the fact that he reseted the world even without being a boss

 

[Ikelaggan]

glitches, simulations, games and codes are not fiction, they are data, if your reality is made of data, that doesn't mean changing those aspects is plot manipulation, that's just reality warping and data manipulation.

That anology only works with stuff like the matrix or battle network where there's no r>f nonsense of a player viewing the world as fiction with influence over it or higher dimensional beings viewing it as fiction with influence over it.

considering he said his clockwork universe would mean everyone following the laws of nature without acting freely, those are the laws they are exploiting, that doesn't indicate control by them, just that they utilized what he had created against him.

That's really misinterpreting what he says vs what it means. Cause your only implying he's has control over just freewill as law, but random variables a thing he doesn't want in his system that would have extend to way more than just Manipulation of the will as a law of nature to keep random variables out of his system.

 

[Ikelaggan]

I'll bump this once cause why not. We already got a majority agreement on this. Also hopefully this thread doesn't turn into 4 month long CRT

 

[Psychomaster35]

I'll bump this once cause why not. We already got a majority agreement on this. Also hopefully this thread doesn't turn into 4 month long CRT

You already have 3 staff members approving this, so you can go ahead and apply it

 

[Orioreeem]

This seems fine. By the way, wouldn’t the players get passive Fate Manipulation from them being controlled by the Player who is canonically controlling their fates to make them succeed in their journey?

Wouldn't it also be plot manipulation and low 1-c at that since they are controlled by the player who views them as game.

 

[Ikelaggan]

True, it's definitely smurfed cause of that.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Wouldn't it also be plot manipulation and low 1-c at that since they are controlled by the player who views them as game.

I would only consider that passive Fate Manipulation and not Plot Manipulation since they aren’t manipulating the plot in any way. It’s only that they are fated to never die on their journey (Though they can still get KO’d as seen with the first Lance encounter in the fifth game).

But yeah, 5D Fate Manipulation is pretty good.

 

[Orioreeem]

Like we already have it om the profile player and higher dimensions are already confirmed to be canon when devaurer is defeted, but why is him seeing a world as simulation not low 1-C? It seems like a clear cut r-f difference considering that screen when they defeated glitch confirming it being an actual simulation and him being able to change the roles of the characters.

 

[Orioreeem]

I would only consider that passive Fate Manipulation and not Plot Manipulation since they aren’t manipulating the plot in any way. It’s only that they are fated to never die on their journey (Though they can still get KO’d as seen with the first Lance encounter in the fifth game).

But yeah, 5D Fate Manipulation is pretty good.

I mean they aren't manipulation anything but the player does. Heck he even revives them and controls them. It would be something like this.

 

[Psychomaster35]

I mean they aren't manipulation anything but the player does. Heck he even revives them and controls them. It would be something like this.

I never said anything about the party manipulating the plot, I was referring to the Player. Controlling them would be considered Body Puppetry, something similar to what Undertale’s player does.

 

[Psychomaster35]

Anyways, can this be added now? It’s already been approved.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Anyways, can this be added now? It’s already been approved.

Yeah, just need the profiles unlocked for the devourer, matt, Natalie, lance, no legs, and anna

 

[Psychomaster35]

Yeah, just need the profiles unlocked for the devourer, matt, Natalie, lance, no legs, and anna

They’re already unlocked, they’ve always been like that

 

[Ikelaggan]

They’re already unlocked, they’ve always been like that

The page still says "only auto-confirmed users can make edits" for me.

 

[Ikelaggan]

@Psychomaster35 I can probably leave it to you to add it on the profiles, at least so this thread finally wraps up

 

[Orioreeem]

@Psychomaster35 I can probably leave it to you to add it on the profiles, at least so this thread finally wraps up

You need to be logged in your vswiki account. It is the same as this one, just two different sites i'd guess, this one and the one on which you are viewing the profile you need to be logged in that one as well to be able to make changes

 

[Andytrenom]

I don't see the rationale for fate manipulation. Rest is fine

 

[Ikelaggan]

finally finished.

 

[Psychomaster35]

finally finished.

Shouldn’t the any ability going to the players be for their first playable keys as well and not just the fifth game? They’ve always been controlled by the player since the start of the series.

 

[Ikelaggan]

Shouldn’t the any ability going to the players be for their first playable keys as well and not just the fifth game? They’ve always been controlled by the player since the start of the series.

oooooooooh, that's right I forgot the ebf 2 retcon.