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[Transformers] THE ONE possible revision ?

Optimus.negz

He/Him
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Hi, I’d like to hear your thoughts on a topic relating to the Transformers media.
After doing some more research on The One, certain pieces of information about him that tie together seem to warrant some analysis.
  • Here, here and here, The One is described as being the ‘heart of the universe’; thus, The One is the universe in its entirety – he is ‘existence’. The last link from Tumblr is unfortunately not canon, BUT it retains the same idea; it suggests that The One should be a panentheistic God, which could serve as backup.
My question is whether we could attribute to The One the characteristics of a panentheistic God as in Kabbalah ? (also defined in Transformers through its Tree of Life), so that, logically, he would be the Ein Sof of Transformers.
 
Then try asking there

Here's the link
 
There is so little information and few appearances available for The One at all that I just called it a day saying it's just "above Unicron and Primus" in their 1A Revision

I am admittedly somewhat ignorant of the standards for this being accepted on this site, the problem with using the Tree of Life as a basis is that the Crown in Singularity Ablyss is very much related to Primus specifically, because it's the source of all things and specifically Sparks, which tons of other media have noted also come directly from Primus. This makes Primus the "Ein Sof" stand-in for Transformers, he just doesn't qualify for Tier 0 by this site's Standards because both Unicron and The One are above him.

The One is a strange character, it's not really directly stated to have created reality in most texts, with that either directly attributed to Primus, or a combination of his and Unicron's antics. Transformers also leans into multiple contradictory ideas coexisting more than other series do, which makes these topics harder to parse.
 
There is so little information and few appearances available for The One at all that I just called it a day saying it's just "above Unicron and Primus" in their 1A Revision

I am admittedly somewhat ignorant of the standards for this being accepted on this site, the problem with using the Tree of Life as a basis is that the Crown in Singularity Ablyss is very much related to Primus specifically, because it's the source of all things and specifically Sparks, which tons of other media have noted also come directly from Primus. This makes Primus the "Ein Sof" stand-in for Transformers, he just doesn't qualify for Tier 0 by this site's Standards because both Unicron and The One are above him.

The One is a strange character, it's not really directly stated to have created reality in most texts, with that either directly attributed to Primus, or a combination of his and Unicron's antics. Transformers also leans into multiple contradictory ideas coexisting more than other series do, which makes these topics harder to parse.
There are three stages in the Ain of Kabbalah.
In fact, they represent the same essence: Ain Sof Aur (emanation and emergence, the light that can represent the Allspark), which flows from Ain Sof (being the manifestation of the essence that can represent Primus), which itself flows from Ain (No-Nothing, being the essence, or The One).
 
There are three stages in the Ain of Kabbalah.
In fact, they represent the same essence: Ain Sof Aur (emanation and emergence, the light that can represent the Allspark), which flows from Ain Sof (being the manifestation of the essence that can represent Primus), which itself flows from Ain (No-Nothing, being the essence, or The One).
yes but that is in the real world Kabbalah tradition, not the Tree of Life as presented in Transformers fiction, which while extremely close is not 1:1 with the real thing. Nothing beyond Primus' final sphere is ever implied or mentioned, and Jim Sorenson didn't expound on it very much when the Tree appeared again in Beast Wars Uprising. I just don't think there is enough in the fiction for us to apply concepts from the IRL tradition that aren't directly mentioned in the story here
 
yes but that is in the real world Kabbalah tradition, not the Tree of Life as presented in Transformers fiction, which while extremely close is not 1:1 with the real thing. Nothing beyond Primus' final sphere is ever implied or mentioned, and Jim Sorenson didn't expound on it very much when the Tree appeared again in Beast Wars Uprising. I just don't think there is enough in the fiction for us to apply concepts from the IRL tradition that aren't directly mentioned in the story here
Given that The One is above Primus and that Kabbalah is perfectly represented, well, I’d say we could use it; after all, it makes sense: Primus cannot do anything other than what The One does – that’s a fact. Even if the work doesn’t demonstrate it.
 
Given that The One is above Primus and that Kabbalah is perfectly represented, well, I’d say we could use it; after all, it makes sense: Primus cannot do anything other than what The One does – that’s a fact. Even if the work doesn’t demonstrate it.
Bolded is why I disagree with this entirely
To analyze feats we can only go off what is stated or at the very least heavily supported by text or context

There isn't anything in Singularity Ablyss as a work of fiction that denotes the final Sphere has its own separate divisions like the real world Ain stages do, The One is never mentioned in conjunction with the tree at all, and most sources in Transformers don't even place The One as the creator of reality, it's far more commonly Primus' doing. The One is obviously superior to Unicron and Primus, but there's a wide gulf between that and adding in further Kabbalic information that isn't already present within Transformers' own lore.

Technically it isn't that Primus can "only do what the One does" so much as Primus can only do what Unicron does since he's made of the lesser half of him. The only real insight we get into their relationship with The One beyond hierarchy is Ask Vector Prime claiming Angolmois is actually The One's energy.
Q: Dear Vector Prime,

How did the Angolmois energy actually give Cybertronian life to the cast of the Beast Wars Neo manga? Is this something to be concerned about?

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A: Dear Dark Energon Darling,

The lifeblood of any part of the Source, be it Primus, Unicron, The Time Walker, or other iterants, can be harnessed to create a spark. In Primax 509.28 Epsilon, a hyper-intelligent Grimlock thus used the Dark Energon that permeated Unicron's head to grant life to the Technobots, a feat that should have been hundreds of thousands of years ahead of the capabilities of Cybertronians in this time stream.

As for your worry, I believe that sparks are neither good nor bad, but have the potential to be both, no matter the source of their creation.
This is never really mentioned again or elaborated on and is quite honestly kind of strange to consider though lol
 
Bolded is why I disagree with this entirely
To analyze feats we can only go off what is stated or at the very least heavily supported by text or context

There isn't anything in Singularity Ablyss as a work of fiction that denotes the final Sphere has its own separate divisions like the real world Ain stages do, The One is never mentioned in conjunction with the tree at all, and most sources in Transformers don't even place The One as the creator of reality, it's far more commonly Primus' doing. The One is obviously superior to Unicron and Primus, but there's a wide gulf between that and adding in further Kabbalic information that isn't already present within Transformers' own lore.

Technically it isn't that Primus can "only do what the One does" so much as Primus can only do what Unicron does since he's made of the lesser half of him. The only real insight we get into their relationship with The One beyond hierarchy is Ask Vector Prime claiming Angolmois is actually The One's energy.

This is never really mentioned again or elaborated on and is quite honestly kind of strange to consider though lol
Vector Prime always refers to The One/The Source as the entity that is the beginning of everything, the origin of Primus and Unicron. I think I’ve already posted three links explaining this just above. And if The One isn’t mentioned in the Tree of Life, it’s because it isn’t in it; the Ein Sof doesn’t need to be mentioned, given that it stands high above it .And the Kabbalah is present in many continuities, given that it represents the Afterlife; it appears in G1, BW and all other references to the Afterlife.
 
Vector Prime always refers to The One/The Source as the entity that is the beginning of everything, the origin of Primus and Unicron. I think I’ve already posted three links explaining this just above.
Vector Prime puts forth theories that The One is the beginning of existence (which in a roundabout way it is), but the creation of the realities in Transformers are always attributed to Primus. The One indirectly made them by making both Unicron and Primus, but the latter two are the actual architects of the multiverse/s

Another theory is more philosophical. Existence began with The One. The One was existence - harmony and discord, order and chaos all existing in perfect balance in a state without time. It was this way until The One created entity known as Unicron. (There are countless more theories as to why it did so). The One then split Unicron into two and formed Primus. The latter inherited all of the qualities of Order, while the former retained near-every aspect of Chaos. So it was that existence was created outside of The One, and the split that formed Primus split this new existence, forming fragments in the void that would grow to create the many parallel universes in our multiverse
This is more or less an elaboration on what Simon Furman added to the backstory when he wrote the DK Guide

But my point isn't that The One didn't create Unicron and Primus and through them, existence, it's that it's an unfounded leap to start applying unmentioned ideas and concepts to the character just based on it being vastly above either character.
Q: Dear Vector Prime,

If the Vok serve The One, which as I'm lead to understand is the sentient core of the Multiverse, is Nexus Zero located at the core of the Multiverse?

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A: Dear Vociferous Vok Vagrant,

The Vok are strange and mysterious creatures, with motives opaque to outsiders, even myself. They swim in the streams of time and reality like oxide sharks in a rust sea, navigating the waters of existence with ease. Decoding what they know, why the act, may well prove impossible. Even their origins are shrouded in mystery; are they the future of humanity, hyper-evolved and free of the constraints of linear space/time? The Swarm, made ascendant? Those Who Came Before, who survived the birthpangs of the multiverse? Perhaps all of the above and more, for the multiverse is indeed vast.

As for the Sentient Core, some universes seem to have, at their core, The One, that is to say, the Universe in its entirety is an entity, that is to say, the quantum foam substrate, ever tumultuous, creating and destroying itself, that exists at a level barely perceivable except through the use of higher order mathematics, has agency and/or ego. Or so the words Primus spoke have been interpreted, so have the observations of physicist-philosopher-prophets been deciphered.

Some perceive The Source to be a Binary entity, Unicron and Primus, two sides of the same coin, the Time Walker the edge of the coin. Some hold similar beliefs but use other names, an infinity of them, more epithets than exist circuits in a body, positrons in a spark. Some believe the Blessed Core has a quintile nature, a five-fingered hand stretched forth to guide the mortal races. The Quintessons often count themselves among those who hold this dogma, patterning their highest cast around the five aspects of the Pentacore. Some faiths hold as doctrine that The One becomes seven in its quest to understand itself and the cosmos around it; some myths, thirteen. Some individuals, gifted with the divine or touched by madness, posit The Core is merely part of a pantheon, one of many Light Gods of Order to oppose the Dark Lords of Chaos.

Some societies acknowledge no Source, merely atechnogenesis and bio-evolution competing to self-organize. Some of these universes may grow and coalesce and unify, till all are one, and in a blinding apotheosis become The Core. Some iterations of what could be called The Source span multiple universes; some metastasize like a cancer, some send out hesitant overtures of peace and light and the music of the spheres.

And what of humanity? I will admit to being woefully ignorant of your belief systems, but what says your mythologies of the origin of all that is? Do you hold dear some creator concept that may be analogous to the multitudinous gospels and creeds I have encountered in my billions of stellar cycles of existence?

The only thing definitive from this statement is that The One manifests as the sentient core of some universes, which he also states is another way people have interpreted and tried to decipher what Primus has said in the past. It's explicit that nobody actually knows, and he also says this is a turn of phrase to express that those universes are sentient. Now is this likely to be true in some capacity? Yes, because in the original G1 comics this is building on we know the Core "exists", but that's entirely different from equating it to Ein Sof.

Conversely he's stated directly that Primus is the beginning of all things back in Balancing Act
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For completion these are the others where he calls it The Source, but we don't get any lore from these
Q: Dear Vector Prime,

What universe contains the timeline shown here: http://tfwiki.net/wiki/Generation_1_cartoon_timeline_(Japan)

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A: Dear Jarring Japanophile,

There is no one stream that contains all of what is listed, but a vast network of tributaries and distributaries weaving in and out, to forge something approximating a vast, twisting, winding river.

The "source" of the river would be Primax 785.06 Alpha. This seems the foundational reality, though dozens more dip in or split off from there.

Interestingly, there seem to be two more, slightly competing streams that wend their way through the entirety of the reality system; Primax 1206.0 Beta and Primax 807.11 Zeta. It almost seems as if some extra-dimensional being or beings attempted to impose order on a system shattered by MegaZarak's destruction of the stable axis of this reality; perhaps The Source or the Chronarchitect or the Alternity or even the Swarm or an evolved Humanity tried to pick up the broken pieces of these timestreams and haphazardly glue them together.
Q: Dear Vector Prime,

Have you ever met the Quantum Operatives Skids and his alternate timeline counterpart/"brother" Screech? Do you know which timelines they hailed from?

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A: Dear Dimensional Dilettante,

Yes, we have worked together in the past, or the future, in reality Primax 308.13 Beta I believe. They do good work, for laybots. I believe they once helped to corral Starscream's ghost back in... oh, I want to say Primax 209.20 Gamma. That spectral schemer certainly gets around, in both time and space!

But you were asking about where they hail from, correct? The operative calling himself Skids came from Primax 308.0 Zeta. The one calling himself Screech, on the other hand, came from Primax 1008.15 Gamma before Skids accidentally wrest him from his home. Would that my responsibility to the Source would allow me to assist him in his quest to return to the land of his forging. Alas, that would disrupt the natural order of things, and besides, his work is not yet done.

And if The One isn’t mentioned in the Tree of Life, it’s because it isn’t in it; the Ein Sof doesn’t need to be mentioned, given that it stands high above it .
I agree that it isn't in the Tree of Life, because The One supercedes Primus and Unicron. That is a natural logical conclusion. Extending qualities from the real world religious tradition that aren't mentioned in Transformers at all is an unfounded leap beyond that. We know The One is vastly beyond Unicron and Primus and that's pretty much it.
And the Kabbalah is present in many continuities, given that it represents the Afterlife; it appears in G1, BW and all other references to the Afterlife.
This is objectively false. It has only ever appeared twice, once in Singularity Ablyss, and decades later in Beast Wars Uprising. It is still the canon way the Afterlife works, but no writer after Skir aside from Jim Sorenson has ever directly referenced it in a Transformers story. I made note of this in the initial CRT I did. The only questionable example is Rook from Axiom News Nexus mentioning a Cosmic Tree (and this is also written by Sorenson), which when asked, Jim Sorenson said that it being an Ablyss reference "seems like the kind of thing I'd do" but he didn't actually remember. It's never appeared in any strictly G1 story, Bob Skir through sheer coincidence used imagery during Singularity Ablyss that happened to perfectly match what Rodimus saw in the afterlife during the Five Faces of Darkness, despite having never seen those episodes.

It is in every continuity by technicality because it is the mechanisms by which Primus and the Transformers afterlife work, but it has not appeared directly in anything but those two stories.
 
So what exactly is being proposed here? Is it an ability addition, or tier change or smthn else?
 
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