- 1,647
- 722
Howdy yall. Its that time again, this time it is a good bit smaller then before but here we go.
3 main profiles being updated here with those being:
Cross
Elma
Shulk
Shulk I had in the backburner for awhile (170k size pages do that to ya). There are other profiles to be updated as well such as Rex, Nia, Melia and others but that is for a later date.
Ability Layers:
Here we have three main examples.
Ex. 1
This one is fairly straightforward as we have a good examples of this. to start off. Malos is someone that is capable of tanking Siren beams (which have been able to turn matter to glass) and can survive in the cloud sea (which disassembles matter it comes into contact with). During Malos's fight with Mythra, they were in a stalemate where one couldn't get the leg up on the other. This inherently would mean that Mythra's own Deconstruction hax does not work on Malos which is consistent with the previous points (tanking Siren beams and being unaffected by the cloud sea). During their fight, Malos levels the town where Mythra's friends were taking refuge in. This causes her to go berserk which greatly increases her capabilities to the point where her driver Addam becomes unable to control her power. This allows for Mythra to release an aura of her energy which disintegrates everything it comes into contact with. Malos is then hit by shots from this berserk Mythra which caused him to disintegrate.
If it isn't already clear a quick tldr of what is going on.
*Mythra and Malos fight
*Mythra's deconstruction hax does not work as Malos has resisted stuff like it before
*Mythra gets stronger after seeing someone she cares for die to the point where her driver can't control her power
*She fights Malos again but now her deconstruction hax works the first instance it hits him.
This clearly shows that Mythra's own hax got stronger in relation to her own power which allows her to overpower the resistance of someone who previously was unaffected by her abilities.
Ex. 2
This example is more interesting as here we have a character who's power fluctuate and thus the ability in question does as well. In this example we have the Precognition from Xenoblade 1. Primarily its use in the hands of Alvis. Alvis and Shulk possess the same abilities of Visions which allow for them to see the future. At this point Alvis's precog is all his own while Shulk's is inherited from Zanza. Homs Alvis is incapable of forseeing Shulk's future while Shulk's Visions (who Alvis admits is stronger than his own) has no issue foreseeing his own future. This would logically mean that Homs Alvis Visions are weaker than Zanza's Visions which lines up with the idea here that the more powerful entity will have more powerful hax.
Later in the game, Shulk develops a resistance to Zanza's visions which prevents Zanza from using them against Shulk anymore. Alvis while utilizing his full power was capable of overpowering this resistance when he saw a world where all life (which would logically include Shulk) walks hand in hand. This is seen again when Alvis' later incarnations Alpha and A. Alpha's Visions worked on the cast (which included Shulk) with A noting they needed Ouroboros power to bypass it and A's Visions also doing so which Shulk remarks on.
The main points of this are:
*Alvis in a much weaker state had a much weaker ability in Visions where Zanza's own Visions were stated and shown to be more potent.
*Zanza's Visions became unable to see Shulk's future.
*Alvis when using their full power had the potency of the Visions massively increase where they work on those who could previously resist the same ability such as Shulk.
*Therefore, the potency of Alvis's Visions correlated to his power where when using way less of it, they weaken and while using his full power it grows in potency where it overpowers resistances the weaker states could not.
Ex. 3
This example will be far shorter than the others as it far more explicit. In Xenoblade 3 Noah and Mio get their abilities locked by X using Z's powers. They later break out of this which X tries to use said power again but this time it does not work on them. This would mean in the hands X (someone weaker than Z), Z's power did not affect Noah and Mio. Despite this when they confront Z himself, Z does this again but this time it works overpowering their previous resistance and requiring the party to break out of it as they did before with X's use of it.
So to recap:
*X (who is weaker than Z) while using Z's power was able to seal away Noah's and Mio's abilities.
*Noah and Mio develop a resistance to this with said ability not working anymore.
*When they fight Z despite going up against the same power, Z is capable of affecting them with the same power.
This again shows how the power of the user affects the potency of the ability with it overpowering the resistance of those who can resist the same power that was used by someone weaker.
Alongside this is minor supporting evidence such as The Monado (an ether based weapon) being stated to have its abilities grow as its wielder does (once again showing a correlation between strength and hax).
Now with those points presented, how potent would Xenoblade's ether hax become with this? The best way to gauge this would be with a scaling chain. The example given below is of the 1-C tier of Xenoblade (as thats what people mostly care about). This scaling chain will only go over significant differences in power between individuals (so nothing like "Reyn is a bit stronger than Sharla so he gets a layer over her") and thus > with indicate a gap high enough to be a layer.
(At least 48 layer) The Conduit ???>>>??? (47 Layer) The First Ouroboros >>> (46 layer) Final Form Alpha > (45 layer) Alpha w/ Origin >> (44 layer) Z w/ Origin > (43 layer) Origin >> (42 layer) Sword of Origin >> (41 layer) Sword Of the End/Lucky Seven >> (40 layer) Alpha w/ Na'el > (39 layer) Alpha > (38 layer) Alvis >>> (37 layer) Monado III Shulk >>> (36 layer) Final form Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (35 layer) 2nd form Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (34 layer) Base Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (33 layer) Rex & Pneuma > (32 Layer) Artifice Aion = Ares Prime/Void w/ Cores > (31 layer) Pneuma > (30 layer) Z > (29 layer) XB3 Ouroboros Forms > (28 layer) XB3FR cast (Matthew, A, Glimmer, Nikol, Shulk, Rex) > (27 layer) Endgame Noah w/ Ino > (26 layer) Endgame XB3 cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > N >= XB3 Nia = XB3 Melia >= (25 layer) Jin > (24 layer) The Architect = Zanza = Meyneth (Prime) > (23 layer) Midgame XB3 Ouroboros > (22 layer) Midgame Noah w/ Ino > (21 layer) Midgame XB3 Cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > (20 layer) FC Cast (Shulk, Melia, Kino, Nene) > (>= won't be counted) Endgame XB3 Heroes (Reborn Ethel, Cammuravi, Triton, etc) >= (19 layer) Replica Monado Shulk (Post-Awakening) > (18 layer) Dickson > (17 layer) High Tier Moebius (Y, X, M) > (16 layer, will count >>> as 1 for the sake of simplicity) Future Redeemed Moebius W w/ Ferronis >>> (15 layer) Early game Xb3 Ouroboros > (14 layer) Mid Tier Moebius (e,g Future Redeemed W, D/J) > (13 layer) Amalthus > (12 layer) Early game Noah w/ Ino > (11 layer) XB3 Heroes (Ethel, Cammuravi, Juniper, etc) = Early game XB3 cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > (10 layer) Fog King > (9 layer) Main Cast (XB2; Nia, Zeke, Morag, Tora) = Main Cast (Xb1) = Fiora (Prison Island) = Meyneth (Weakened) > (8 layer) Bionis (Re-Awakened) = Monado II Shulk (Post Apocrypha Amp) > (7 layer) Mechonis Core Egil > (6 layer) Lorithia > (5 layer) Replica Monado Shulk (Pre-Awakening) > (4 layer) Gold Face > (3 layer) Monado II Shulk (Agnirithia) > (2 layer) Egil > (1 layer) High Tier Telethia > (Baseline) Main cast (Reyn, Riki, Melia, Sharla, Dunban, Fiora) = Monado II Shulk (Prison Island) = Mechonis = Bionis.
For now, other tiers like Low 7-C, 5-C and 3-B/3-A will be mostly baseline with some exceptions (Mythra's deconstruction for example which is already noted on the profile).
Incorporeality Layers:
This was also previously talked about. In this thread mainly which has the old argument which was accepted back when this was all presented. Here I'll bring this back up again for the purpose of having it revaluated to check if it is still valid after the numerous changes there has been to layered abilities.
The purpose of this is to increase the number of layers for the higher ends of ether beings. So as previously established ether based beings the higher their ether concentration is, the more incorporeal they are. This is what caused Shulk, Melia and co to increase their own ether concentration as despite being able to hit Fog Beasts they were unable to interact with the Fog King. Something that was not touched on before however is that size correlates to how concentrated the ether of an ether based being is. For example, the Fog King's rift was previously confined to Alcamoth due to the Telethia's Ether Field being too dense but when it overcame this and escaped Alcamoth it became much larger.
This means that an ether based being's size correlates to how concentrated it's ether is and thus how layered it is. This makes logical sense as "well yeah the more ether there is the more concentrated it gets". The interesting part is that for characters such as Alvis, their size correlates to the universe (and higher dimensions) and more which in that case would be infinite. The easy thing here to say is that it would make it infinitely layered (wouldn't that be fun) but I have been told that this would be make it an unquantifiable layer. This would mean that effectively allow for users to be unable to be hit by other sources including ether attacks as seen with Melia. This would cover an elemental, Spiritual, Informational and Conceptual basis as given that is what Ether is capable of interacting with.
Aight that is all for today. Thanks again for reading this massive bit about fictional characters and their fictional abilities that authors do not really think about all that much.
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus, @Eseseso, @AlphaOmegaV1, @Theglassman12, @Spinoirr, @sukuna171, @AlipheeseXIV, @Kisaragi_Megumi, @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Luckyfun, @KingTempest
Disagree:
Neutral:
Profile Updates/X DE content:
3 main profiles being updated here with those being:
Cross
Elma
Shulk
Shulk I had in the backburner for awhile (170k size pages do that to ya). There are other profiles to be updated as well such as Rex, Nia, Melia and others but that is for a later date.
Layers:
This was a thing for awhile which I just never got around to so I might as well do it now. So as ya may know, Ether in Xenoblade is a Universal Energy System. Its actually one of the main examples of it as well. The specifics were laid out in this thread which went over to main points but to recap, the potency of Ether based abilities increases with the strength of the user (which given nigh everything uses ether one way or another affects a good chunk of stuff). This basically had the stats of the user scale with the hax so if a character was 6-D they would gain various 6-D abilities (where doing so was applicable as it would be dumb to say "6-D Enhanced Senses" or stuff like that). Since then the standards for layers needed be verified so that is what I'm going to do here. To start off as we have two main things go over:Ability Layers:
Here we have three main examples.
Ex. 1
This one is fairly straightforward as we have a good examples of this. to start off. Malos is someone that is capable of tanking Siren beams (which have been able to turn matter to glass) and can survive in the cloud sea (which disassembles matter it comes into contact with). During Malos's fight with Mythra, they were in a stalemate where one couldn't get the leg up on the other. This inherently would mean that Mythra's own Deconstruction hax does not work on Malos which is consistent with the previous points (tanking Siren beams and being unaffected by the cloud sea). During their fight, Malos levels the town where Mythra's friends were taking refuge in. This causes her to go berserk which greatly increases her capabilities to the point where her driver Addam becomes unable to control her power. This allows for Mythra to release an aura of her energy which disintegrates everything it comes into contact with. Malos is then hit by shots from this berserk Mythra which caused him to disintegrate.
If it isn't already clear a quick tldr of what is going on.
*Mythra and Malos fight
*Mythra's deconstruction hax does not work as Malos has resisted stuff like it before
*Mythra gets stronger after seeing someone she cares for die to the point where her driver can't control her power
*She fights Malos again but now her deconstruction hax works the first instance it hits him.
This clearly shows that Mythra's own hax got stronger in relation to her own power which allows her to overpower the resistance of someone who previously was unaffected by her abilities.
Ex. 2
This example is more interesting as here we have a character who's power fluctuate and thus the ability in question does as well. In this example we have the Precognition from Xenoblade 1. Primarily its use in the hands of Alvis. Alvis and Shulk possess the same abilities of Visions which allow for them to see the future. At this point Alvis's precog is all his own while Shulk's is inherited from Zanza. Homs Alvis is incapable of forseeing Shulk's future while Shulk's Visions (who Alvis admits is stronger than his own) has no issue foreseeing his own future. This would logically mean that Homs Alvis Visions are weaker than Zanza's Visions which lines up with the idea here that the more powerful entity will have more powerful hax.
Later in the game, Shulk develops a resistance to Zanza's visions which prevents Zanza from using them against Shulk anymore. Alvis while utilizing his full power was capable of overpowering this resistance when he saw a world where all life (which would logically include Shulk) walks hand in hand. This is seen again when Alvis' later incarnations Alpha and A. Alpha's Visions worked on the cast (which included Shulk) with A noting they needed Ouroboros power to bypass it and A's Visions also doing so which Shulk remarks on.
The main points of this are:
*Alvis in a much weaker state had a much weaker ability in Visions where Zanza's own Visions were stated and shown to be more potent.
*Zanza's Visions became unable to see Shulk's future.
*Alvis when using their full power had the potency of the Visions massively increase where they work on those who could previously resist the same ability such as Shulk.
*Therefore, the potency of Alvis's Visions correlated to his power where when using way less of it, they weaken and while using his full power it grows in potency where it overpowers resistances the weaker states could not.
Ex. 3
This example will be far shorter than the others as it far more explicit. In Xenoblade 3 Noah and Mio get their abilities locked by X using Z's powers. They later break out of this which X tries to use said power again but this time it does not work on them. This would mean in the hands X (someone weaker than Z), Z's power did not affect Noah and Mio. Despite this when they confront Z himself, Z does this again but this time it works overpowering their previous resistance and requiring the party to break out of it as they did before with X's use of it.
So to recap:
*X (who is weaker than Z) while using Z's power was able to seal away Noah's and Mio's abilities.
*Noah and Mio develop a resistance to this with said ability not working anymore.
*When they fight Z despite going up against the same power, Z is capable of affecting them with the same power.
This again shows how the power of the user affects the potency of the ability with it overpowering the resistance of those who can resist the same power that was used by someone weaker.
Alongside this is minor supporting evidence such as The Monado (an ether based weapon) being stated to have its abilities grow as its wielder does (once again showing a correlation between strength and hax).
Now with those points presented, how potent would Xenoblade's ether hax become with this? The best way to gauge this would be with a scaling chain. The example given below is of the 1-C tier of Xenoblade (as thats what people mostly care about). This scaling chain will only go over significant differences in power between individuals (so nothing like "Reyn is a bit stronger than Sharla so he gets a layer over her") and thus > with indicate a gap high enough to be a layer.
(At least 48 layer) The Conduit ???>>>??? (47 Layer) The First Ouroboros >>> (46 layer) Final Form Alpha > (45 layer) Alpha w/ Origin >> (44 layer) Z w/ Origin > (43 layer) Origin >> (42 layer) Sword of Origin >> (41 layer) Sword Of the End/Lucky Seven >> (40 layer) Alpha w/ Na'el > (39 layer) Alpha > (38 layer) Alvis >>> (37 layer) Monado III Shulk >>> (36 layer) Final form Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (35 layer) 2nd form Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (34 layer) Base Zanza w/ Meyneth's Monado > (33 layer) Rex & Pneuma > (32 Layer) Artifice Aion = Ares Prime/Void w/ Cores > (31 layer) Pneuma > (30 layer) Z > (29 layer) XB3 Ouroboros Forms > (28 layer) XB3FR cast (Matthew, A, Glimmer, Nikol, Shulk, Rex) > (27 layer) Endgame Noah w/ Ino > (26 layer) Endgame XB3 cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > N >= XB3 Nia = XB3 Melia >= (25 layer) Jin > (24 layer) The Architect = Zanza = Meyneth (Prime) > (23 layer) Midgame XB3 Ouroboros > (22 layer) Midgame Noah w/ Ino > (21 layer) Midgame XB3 Cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > (20 layer) FC Cast (Shulk, Melia, Kino, Nene) > (>= won't be counted) Endgame XB3 Heroes (Reborn Ethel, Cammuravi, Triton, etc) >= (19 layer) Replica Monado Shulk (Post-Awakening) > (18 layer) Dickson > (17 layer) High Tier Moebius (Y, X, M) > (16 layer, will count >>> as 1 for the sake of simplicity) Future Redeemed Moebius W w/ Ferronis >>> (15 layer) Early game Xb3 Ouroboros > (14 layer) Mid Tier Moebius (e,g Future Redeemed W, D/J) > (13 layer) Amalthus > (12 layer) Early game Noah w/ Ino > (11 layer) XB3 Heroes (Ethel, Cammuravi, Juniper, etc) = Early game XB3 cast (Noah, Mio, Lanz, Sena, Eunie, Taion) > (10 layer) Fog King > (9 layer) Main Cast (XB2; Nia, Zeke, Morag, Tora) = Main Cast (Xb1) = Fiora (Prison Island) = Meyneth (Weakened) > (8 layer) Bionis (Re-Awakened) = Monado II Shulk (Post Apocrypha Amp) > (7 layer) Mechonis Core Egil > (6 layer) Lorithia > (5 layer) Replica Monado Shulk (Pre-Awakening) > (4 layer) Gold Face > (3 layer) Monado II Shulk (Agnirithia) > (2 layer) Egil > (1 layer) High Tier Telethia > (Baseline) Main cast (Reyn, Riki, Melia, Sharla, Dunban, Fiora) = Monado II Shulk (Prison Island) = Mechonis = Bionis.
For now, other tiers like Low 7-C, 5-C and 3-B/3-A will be mostly baseline with some exceptions (Mythra's deconstruction for example which is already noted on the profile).
Incorporeality Layers:
This was also previously talked about. In this thread mainly which has the old argument which was accepted back when this was all presented. Here I'll bring this back up again for the purpose of having it revaluated to check if it is still valid after the numerous changes there has been to layered abilities.
The purpose of this is to increase the number of layers for the higher ends of ether beings. So as previously established ether based beings the higher their ether concentration is, the more incorporeal they are. This is what caused Shulk, Melia and co to increase their own ether concentration as despite being able to hit Fog Beasts they were unable to interact with the Fog King. Something that was not touched on before however is that size correlates to how concentrated the ether of an ether based being is. For example, the Fog King's rift was previously confined to Alcamoth due to the Telethia's Ether Field being too dense but when it overcame this and escaped Alcamoth it became much larger.
This means that an ether based being's size correlates to how concentrated it's ether is and thus how layered it is. This makes logical sense as "well yeah the more ether there is the more concentrated it gets". The interesting part is that for characters such as Alvis, their size correlates to the universe (and higher dimensions) and more which in that case would be infinite. The easy thing here to say is that it would make it infinitely layered (wouldn't that be fun) but I have been told that this would be make it an unquantifiable layer. This would mean that effectively allow for users to be unable to be hit by other sources including ether attacks as seen with Melia. This would cover an elemental, Spiritual, Informational and Conceptual basis as given that is what Ether is capable of interacting with.
Aight that is all for today. Thanks again for reading this massive bit about fictional characters and their fictional abilities that authors do not really think about all that much.
Agree: @DarkDragonMedeus, @Eseseso, @AlphaOmegaV1, @Theglassman12, @Spinoirr, @sukuna171, @AlipheeseXIV, @Kisaragi_Megumi, @ActuallySpaceMan42 @Luckyfun, @KingTempest
Disagree:
Neutral:
Last edited:
