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Downgrading Mario/Bowser

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I'm sorry to interrupt the interesting history but the scaling the Grand Star powered Bowser and Mario's powerscale has nothing to do with creating and ruling a galaxy, which Bowser never get to in both games . It's the fact the Grand Star created a black hole that destroyed the universe in SMG1 and Bowser was being powered himself with it in SMG2 while performing a simlar feat in the climax as well as consuming the universe's celestial matter with the comet Rosalina is in being among them(Could possibly not be fighting back since she's one of the more powerful characters in the series) and surviving the said black holes.
 
Dino Ranger Black said:
I'm sorry to interrupt the interesting history but the scaling the Grand Star powered Bowser and Mario's powerscale has nothing to do with creating and ruling a galaxy, which he never did in both games. It's the fact the Grand Star created a black hole that destroyed the universe in SMG1 and Bowser was being powered himself with it in SMG2 while performing a simlar feat in the climax as well as consuming the universe's celestial matter with the comet Rosalina is in being among them(Could possibly not be fighting back since she's one of the more powerful characters in the series) and surviving the said black holes.
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Well technically bowser did create the galaxy until mario came along and foiled his plans again
 
Bowser's feat of "surviving" a black hole can't be used, as surviving a black hole is impossible for any non-infinite 3-dimensional character. The singularity of a black hole has infinite mass, and thus, if Bowser survived it, it'd also mean Mario was hitting him with infinite force. Which, you know, isn't possible.
 
Isn't bowser technically a magical being though? I don't know if creators still go by the manual canon from the first NES mario game but it says koopas can use black magic.
 
Salavtore said:
Isn't bowser technically a magical being though? I don't know if creators still go by the manual canon from the first NES mario game but it says koopas can use black magic.
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True bowser is just a power turtle
 
That doesn't mean he's immune to infinite mass. Logically, by scaling to that, he'd have infinite durability and Mario would have infinite striking force.

Which is logically impossible, and thus the feat is unusable.
 
Promestein said:
That doesn't mean he's immune to infinite mass. Logically, by scaling to that, he'd have infinite durability and Mario would have infinite striking force.

Which is logically impossible, and thus the feat is unusable.
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Some characters couldn't survive the black hole but bowser did
 
I don't care if he survived the Black Hole. The feat is unusable because it'd mean he'd have infinite durability, as the singularity of a Black Hole has infinite mass, which is definitely not the case.

It's an outlier, and thus unusable. There is literally a page that explains this. Why is this hard to understand.
 
Promestein said:
That doesn't mean he's immune to infinite mass. Logically, by scaling to that, he'd have infinite durability and Mario would have infinite striking force.
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Unstoppable force vs. immovable object all over again.
 
Promestein said:
I don't care if he survived the Black Hole. The feat is unusable because it'd mean he'd have infinite durability, as the singularity of a Black Hole has infinite mass, which is definitely not the case.

It's an outlier, and thus unusable. There is literally a page that explains this. Why is this hard to understand.
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Their are alot of other characters who survived black hole i dont understand why are you complaining about this
 
NotAMarioFan(lol) said:
Promestein said:
Because surviving the singularity of a black hole is impossible. Read this page.
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I see, but since he survived it logic doesnt apply to certain video game characters like mario, bowser, kirby, Pokémon etc.
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Think about it like this

Yes, you can accept it as a feat

No, it isn't quantifiable

Plus, accepting black hole feats and trying to quantify them would require a complete re-working of the Wiki's tier system
 
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF LOGIC DOESN'T APPLY. The rules of this wiki says that it's impossible, and thus it can't be used as a feat. Doing so would give Bowser infinite durability, which is impossible, and would give Mario infinite attack potency, which is impossible. Please don't talk about things that you don't understand, and refuse to understand.

All you've been doing this thread is constantly wanking Mario and Bowser anyways, so your opinion on the matter is evidently irrelevant, because you will continue to do so no matter what anyone says.
 
Promestein said:
IT DOESN'T MATTER IF LOGIC DOESN'T APPLY. The rules of this wiki says that it's impossible, and thus it can't be used as a feat. Doing so would give Bowser infinite durability, which is impossible, and would give Mario infinite attack potency, which is impossible. Please don't talk about things that you don't understand, and refuse to understand.

Calm down. No ones wanking anyone

All you've been doing this thread is constantly wanking Mario and Bowser anyways, so your opinion on the matter is evidently irrelevant, because you will continue to do so no matter what anyone says.
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If someone's going to be wanking Bowser and Mario to the point of absurdity, I'm going to tell them off.

I could care less what tier they end up as, but Bowser surviving a black hole is not a usable or quantifiable durability feat, canon or not, and should therefore not be used for the discussion.
 
Don't be so sure MarioFan, pretty much everyone has supported it except you and DRB
 
I'm not so sure many of the points that were brought up have been argued and some had been countered and then began going into the size of the galaxy which doest make sense for smg since the observatory sends Mario to the location of the stars much like how dino ranger stated and to my understanding, there were some instances of games being mixed up (smg hub world, smg2 starship travels).

Mario didn't get multi-galaxy ap/durability from smg it was from super Mario galaxy 2 when Mario fought bowser when he had infused himself with a grand star to gain more power to defeat Mario and create his own galactic empire in the center of the universe.

bowser consumed a grand star that is able to power a galaxy creating machine and universal destroying device for as Rosalina stated misusing the grand stars power, and Rosalina uses these grand stars to traverse the cosmos so bowser eating one is justifiable seeing as how much power a grand star has.

in super Mario galaxy 2 during the final battle Mario butt stomps meteorites back at the grand star empowered bowser and harming him with said meteorites giving Mario multi-galaxy ap. Mario was also able to tank hits from a grand star empowered bowser and suffer minimal damage ( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwvQNN9KV_k [8:51] ) justifying the durability.
 
I maybe remembering this wrongly, did they endure the black hole? or did rosalina and the star babies save them. (i only played the first one not the second) I recall at the end of the first mario galaxy game, they appeared back in the mushroom kingdom after the whole black hole thing.
 
the black hole was only in the first super Mario galaxy. and Rosalina shielded Mario and peach from the blast after the black hole imploded then sent the back to the mushroom kingdom.
 
Salavtore said:
I maybe remembering this wrongly, did they endure the black hole? or did rosalina and the star babies save them. (i only played the first one not the second) I recall at the end of the first mario galaxy game, they appeared back in the mushroom kingdom after the whole black hole thing.
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It's the second game, not the first. I'm sorry but this conversation is slowly becoming redundant since people keep mixing up the wrong events and feats in these games.
 
Well, withstanding a black hole is an unquantifiable outlier, but creating a black hole that can destroy a universe seems more quantifiable. However, given that Bowser was hurt by regular comets thst were being hurled at him, and the like, it seems more like a hax glass cannon feat, not something that scales to his or Mario's general physical attack power and durability.
 
Antvasima said:
Well, withstanding a black hole is an unquantifiable outlier, but creating a black hole that can destroy a universe seems more quantifiable. However, given that Bowser was hurt by regular comets thst were being hurled at him, and the like, it seems more like a hax glass cannon feat, not something that scales to his or Mario's general physical attack power and durability.
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The comets aren't regular comets. May I remind people they were summoned through the power of the Grand Star(which we seen destroying the universe in the last game from it's misuse) infused with dark matter-like energy and his punches are as well. Plus, I don't see how surviving the black hole is an outlier considering it happened twice in a row.
 
It's an outlier no matter how many times it happens, by nature. A black hole has infinite mass at the singularity, enough to destroy any 3-dimensional object or being. By insisting that Bowser would be able to survive that when he's been regularly beaten by much less, you're basically also insisting that Mario hits with more force than infinity. Which is obviously false.

At most, it is a feat specific to being immune to black holes, which is unlikely, as nothing in accordance to that has been mentioned or even hinted at.
 
Promestein said:
It's an outlier no matter how many times it happens, by nature. A black hole has infinite mass at the singularity, enough to destroy any 3-dimensional object or being. By insisting that Bowser would be able to survive that when he's been regularly beaten by much less, you're basically also insisting that Mario hits with more force than infinity. Which is obviously false.
At most, it is a feat specific to being immune to black holes, which is unlikely, as nothing in accordance to that has been mentioned or even hinted at.
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I'm quantifying the black hole and the Grand Star from it's feats. Not physics or real world logic. Black holes were hardly ever to never properly represented in fiction and the fact that everybody are making a big deal out of it now with some demanding downgrades for it when other characters have recieve their stats for similar reasons is unnecessary and quite unfair(From Hypernova Kirby to Sirius and Megaman Starforce). Unless you are willing to change every single stats of every characters that recieve their stats from the phenomenon and scale them "properly", the feats are just as solid as any other character. This isn't just some black hole that could barely destroy the building from within, they are ones that could destroy the universe. I dont see why we can't believe that but can can believe that fire can be ignited underwater in the same verse.
 
Well, there's a whole page on black hole feats that you should actually read before scaling to anything about it. If a 'black hole' does not have infinite mass at the center, it is not a black hole. You cannot scale Bowser to that, as stated multiple times in this thread, although you seem to refuse to listen. These are just the rules of the wiki, so listen to them.

Kirby's Hypernova has the suction power of a black hole, which is why he's 4-C, to my knowledge. I don't know about Starforce or Sirius. If it's about being fast enough to escape a black hole's pull, that's a usable speed feat, and creating one is a usable feat as well. And yes, things should be scaled as properly and accurately as possible. I don't see how this is a bad thing?

Scaling is different when it comes to actually surviving a black hole. Bowser creating a multi-galactic Black Hole is definitely 3-B, but that likely doesn't scale to his combat powers or durability.
 
Promestein said:
Well, there's a whole page on black hole feats that you should actually read before scaling to anything about it. If a 'black hole' does not have infinite mass at the center, it is not a black hole. You cannot scale Bowser to that, as stated multiple times in this thread, although you seem to refuse to listen. These are just the rules of the wiki, so listen to them.
Kirby's Hypernova has the suction power of a black hole, which is why he's 4-C, to my knowledge. I don't know about Starforce or Sirius. If it's about being fast enough to escape a black hole's pull, that's a usable speed feat, and creating one is a usable feat as well. And yes, things should be scaled as properly and accurately as possible. I don't see how this is a bad thing?

Scaling is different when it comes to actually surviving a black hole. Bowser creating a multi-galactic Black Hole is definitely 3-B, but that likely doesn't scale to his combat powers or durability.
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But all 3 characters also recieve their durability and combat stats from the feats and they aren't the only ones. Bowser and Mario did it as well and it becomes a factor just because the franchise or it's characters is probably not as powerful or strong. Infact, I believe two users got into a fight about the a characters ability to create a dimension large enough to contain a galaxy and scaling him to that level. Everyone was on board but Lumine from X series did the exact same feat(albiet star level) and was scaled from it but nobody ranted about that. To be honest, I think our issues with scaling characters are inconsistent since more often than not it's who and not what,when, or how. I'm well aware of that page but the Grand Star is already known for the destructive event in SMG1 and Bowser is powered by it. He is clearly using darkish energy in all of his attacks. Count in the fact we was consuming energy from power stars, the comet with Rosalina in it(we all know how strong she is), and celestial matter of the universe and it's not even an issue to begin with. Just because black holes are never accurate in fiction, doesn't mean it should be ignored. Unless all the characters in this forum have their black hole feats changed for the sake of fairness, the black hole feats here are just as usable. Durability or AP...I'll discuss more of this later. I have to go to bed.
 
Well, several wrongs do not make a right, and I still think that Bowser creating a black hole seems to be a specific feat rather than scale to him and Mario physically, but you do have a point that we should likely place Kirby's hypernova at Unknown tiering unless it has been shown or officially stated as capable of absorbing entire stars.
 
If you find more unquantifiable black hole fests in this wiki, feel free to bring them up in a content revision thread.
 
Are we still talking about this redudant topic? We already concluded that black holes are justified in term of AP and that the feat of surviving it is unquantified. This thread should be locked.
 
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