Itachi vs Kakashi

[TauanVictor]

Itachi Uchiha VS Kakashi Hatake​

• Fight Location: Mountainous place
• Starting Distance: 200m
• Bloodlusted Kakashi
• Edo Itachi | War Arc Kakashi

Itachi: 7 (@WrongIdea21, @XSOULOFCINDERX, @Rez, @Sonicflare9, @Kin201, @GokuSparkle, @CiscoTheSoto)
Kakashi: 4 (@noct, @KarematsuShinjuu, @RisingIons, @MonkeyOfLife)
Inconclusive: 1 (@NomsNoms)

 

[WrongIdea21]

Vote Itachi For Genjutsu and Amaterasu GG
Kakashi Have nothing to Do with Izanami, he's Even doesn't Know what Izanami is.

 

[TauanVictor]

Vote Itachi For Genjutsu and Amaterasu GG
Kakashi Have nothing to Do with Izanami, he's Even doesn't Know what Izanami is.

Would Izanami be effective against Kakashi? And yet, in-character he uses it as a last resort.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Would Izanami be effective against Kakashi? And yet, in-character he uses it as a last resort.

Why not? Oh okay, if so, Itachi Would Use Fireball Justu and Tsukoyomi For Opening. Itachi Still neg

 

[Jseymore]

I don’t think Itachi would catch Kakashi with genjutsu. His strategy would be to use clones, while he hides and looks for an opening like he did before. With a better control and stronger arsenal he might use Kamui or lightning blade for the kill. However, if he does catch him with genjutsu, then it’s probably over.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Its easy for Itachi to trapping Kakashi in to the Tsukoyomi, His Tsukoyomi doesn't even need physical contact.

 

[TauanVictor]

Its easy for Itachi to trapping Kakashi in to the Tsukoyomi, His Tsukoyomi doesn't even need physical contact.

Kakashi has knowledge of Tsukuyomi. It might even fall and gg, but I don't think it would be as easy as you say.

 

[Axxtentacle]

Why on God's green earth would a Tsukuyomi fail on Kakashi? Kakashi would avoid eye contact cause he knows what Itachi is capable of, but if he gets caught he gets caught.

So, uh, what does Kakashi do about a potential Susanoo and being sealed away? Don't think he knows about that for Itachi.

 

[WrongIdea21]

Kakashi Knows How Tsukoyomi Works but He Still Get caught like what Happen in the Manga.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

Itachi stomps.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Why on God's green earth would a Tsukuyomi fail on Kakashi? Kakashi would avoid eye contact cause he knows what Itachi is capable of, but if he gets caught he gets caught.

So, uh, what does Kakashi do about a potential Susanoo and being sealed away? Don't think he knows about that for Itachi.

He knows about susanoo given his reaction to Sasuke.

Itachi stomps.

Nah, Kakashi has plenty of win cons like his at this point lightning fast kamui gg, AP that could likely one shot Base Itachi, potentially taking advantage of a failed Tsukuyomi if his mangekyo can counter it, etc. Although I agree Itachi wins, they're really even match ups. Both scale to KCM Naruto in terms of power, both have clear subrelativistic feats with possible relativistic reactions (even if the page doesn't say that), both have instant gg hax, they're both incredibly smart tacticians and both are generally known for low stamina even if Kakashi seems to have magically overcome that.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

War Arc Kakashi has more stamina than Itachi by quite a lot. I've never seen Itachi fight for over 24 Hours straight like Kakashi was doing throughout the War Arc. That being said, Itachi should have this in the Bag as long as he doesn't get Kamui'd as quickly as possible from Kakashi not willing to pull his punches against the Guy who ROFL Stomped him in their first fight.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

War Arc Kakashi has more stamina than Itachi by quite a lot. I've never seen Itachi fight for over 24 Hours straight like Kakashi was doing throughout the War Arc. That being said, Itachi should have this in the Bag as long as he doesn't get Kamui'd as quickly as possible from Kakashi not willing to pull his punches against the Guy who ROFL Stomped him in their first fight.

"Kakashi seems to have magically overcome that." Also Kakashi didn't do that. There's little indication of how long his battle against the seven swordsman took, just that it was a long one. And yeah he'll probably evade kamui, detecting the building chakra in Kakashi's eye and dodging or using amaterasu first or susanoo or crow substitution.

 

[XSOULOFCINDERX]

The only problem with that is that Kakashi can spam the shit out of Kamui, probably more than Itachi can spam his own MS Abilities because of his Bullshit Chakra and Stamina Capacity.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

The only problem with that is that Kakashi can spam the shit out of Kamui, probably more than Itachi can spam his own MS Abilities because of his Bullshit Chakra and Stamina Capacity.

In character he doesn't repeatedly use kamui.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

He can't indefinitely spam Kamui. People forget that received several chakra handouts throughout the arc.

Also, Kakashi has no answer for Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, or the Susano'o. It's not even at all.
Kamui is a win con, sure, but it's not the strongest thing against seasoned Sharingan users because they'll see the chakra being built up in his eyes, and know that something is coming. Not that Kakashi ever opens with Kamui, anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Itachi's way more likely to start with his win cons than Kakashi is imo.

He also holds a significant AP and durability advantage with the Susano'o.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

He can't indefinitely spam Kamui. People forget that received several chakra handouts throughout the arc.

Also, Kakashi has no answer for Amaterasu, Tsukuyomi, or the Susano'o. It's not even at all.
Kamui is a win con, sure, but it's not the strongest thing against seasoned Sharingan users because they'll see the chakra being built up in his eyes, and know that something is coming. Not that Kakashi ever opens with Kamui, anyway, so it doesn't really matter. Itachi's way more likely to start with his win cons than Kakashi is imo.

He also holds a significant AP and durability advantage with the Susano'o.

well actually he used kamui 12 times with his own chakra

He can warp away kamui (after all he could warp away a senpo rasengan from Minato), he won't look at Itachi's eyes or might be able to break it with his MS, and he can warp away the susanoo.

Same goes for Kakashi, he can see chakra building up in Itachi's eyes as he prepares an MS tech.

 

[UchihaSlayer96]

well actually he used kamui 12 times with his own chakra

Chakra handouts also replenish his reserves. Just because he used his own chakra, doesn't mean said chakra wasn't replenished several times. He was also healed once or twice by naruto.

He can warp away kamui (after all he could warp away a senpo rasengan from Minato),

What lol? Warp Kamui with Kamui? I'll just assume you mean Amaterasu.
No, he can't. Amaterasu isn't a projectile that he'll be able to intercept with Kamui. It spawns directly on the target of Itachi's gaze.

he won't look at Itachi's eyes or might be able to break it with his MS

He might choose not to, and that would be wise, but still somewhat debilitating in battle. It'll also leave him vulnerable to Amaterasu as he won't be able to see the chakra building up in Itachi's eyes, since he's not looking at them.
Also, I don't think Kakashi can resist Tsukuyomi. First of all, Itachi himself said you need to have a true Uchiha bloodline in order to resist it (and we know that much won't be enough on its own because he used Tsukuyomi on Uchiha clansmen with their Sharingan active). So that leads me to believe that you need both the bloodline and an MS in order to resist it. Kakashi doesn't have his MS active all the time anyway, and mostly fights with his regular Sharingan.
Also, Tsukuyomi is so powerful and potent that it was said to be superior to even MS Sasuke's genjutsu by Danzo. (He might've been referring to his regular genjutsu, I don't remember exactly tbh)

, and he can warp away the susanoo.

He can't. He explicitly can't Kamui very large targets (without Kurama's amp, anyway)

Same goes for Kakashi, he can see chakra building up in Itachi's eyes as he prepares an MS tech.

Fair, but at that point there won't be much he can really do about it.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Chakra handouts also replenish his reserves. Just because he used his own chakra, doesn't mean said chakra wasn't replenished several times. He was also healed once or twice by naruto.

What lol? Warp Kamui with Kamui? I'll just assume you mean Amaterasu.
No, he can't. Amaterasu isn't a projectile that he'll be able to intercept with Kamui. It spawns directly on the target of Itachi's gaze.

He might choose not to, and that would be wise, but still somewhat debilitating in battle. It'll also leave him vulnerable to Amaterasu as he won't be able to see the chakra building up in Itachi's eyes, since he's not looking at them.
Also, I don't think Kakashi can resist Tsukuyomi. First of all, Itachi himself said you need to have a true Uchiha bloodline in order to resist it (and we know that much won't be enough on its own because he used Tsukuyomi on Uchiha clansmen with their Sharingan active). So that leads me to believe that you need both the bloodline and an MS in order to resist it. Kakashi doesn't have his MS active all the time anyway, and mostly fights with his regular Sharingan.
Also, Tsukuyomi is so powerful and potent that it was said to be superior to even MS Sasuke's genjutsu by Danzo. (He might've been referring to his regular genjutsu, I don't remember exactly tbh)

He can't. He explicitly can't Kamui very large targets (without Kurama's amp, anyway)

Fair, but at that point there won't be much he can really do about it.

Fair enough, but with his own chakra he should still be able to use it plenty for one fight.

Ya lol. And Kakashi warped Rasengan after it touched him too, he warped it so fast it was gone before it damaged him, which is what will happen to Amaterasu.

Fair enough, but like I said he'll get rid of that when it hits him.

I mean...Kakashi could resist Obito's genjutsu that could control a perfect jin, so he's clearly not bad at genjutsu resistance at this point. And does he mostly fight with the sharingan? In the war arc I'm pretty sure he keeps the MS active a lot.

Regular MS genjutsu isn't that potent.

He can tho, he can kamui interrupting Itachi

 

[noct]

If we talking about dms Kakashi , before even itachi notice he is alive he is dead speed gap is extremely high between em .... and reaction speed Kakashi is far above lol , he does not even need susano or any juste lol he just Kamui his head , and izanami needs a partner lol ( does not work w clones )

 

[TauanVictor]

If we talking about dms Kakashi , before even itachi notice he is alive he is dead speed gap is extremely high between em .... and reaction speed Kakashi is far above lol , he does not even need susano or any juste lol he just Kamui his head , and izanami needs a partner lol ( does not work w clones )

It's not DMS Kakashi, it's War Arc Kakashi, with only one MS.

 

[noct]

Kakashi gets wrecked if it’s Edo itachi , infinite chakra no illness , all arsenal . I mean actually it’s not high diff mur mid diff if it’s Kakashi let 1 war if it’s the second part ( vs juibito after Kakashi s resolution) arguably Kakashi can win . Tho if he used multiple Kamui it’s thanks to Naruto . And dms eats a dozen of itachi at the same time , this is IC , Bloodlust I doubt itachi would win against fp ms kakashi

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kakashi gets wrecked if it’s Edo itachi , infinite chakra no illness , all arsenal . I mean actually it’s not high diff mur mid diff if it’s Kakashi let 1 war if it’s the second part ( vs juibito after Kakashi s resolution) arguably Kakashi can win . Tho if he used multiple Kamui it’s thanks to Naruto . And dms eats a dozen of itachi at the same time , this is IC , Bloodlust I doubt itachi would win against fp ms kakashi

I don't understand half of what you said but it's Healthy Alive Itachi vs Composite 1 MS War Kakashi.

 

[noct]

Composite ??? Composite = all mods at once , unless u saying anime and manga feat and storm 4 fb burst , I said with MS Kakashi have win coins in IC , dms post not even composite eats 10 itachi reunited

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Composite ??? Composite = all mods at once , unless u saying anime and manga feat and storm 4 fb burst , I said with MS Kakashi have win coins in IC , dms post not even composite eats 10 itachi reunited

Basically War Arc Kakashi with all his 1 MS feats in the manga. Both before and after Juubito.

 

[noct]

Kakashi wins mid diff there is a gap here , Kamui ignores susano armor or Taka , genjutsu Kakashi s reaction is way more higher speed comparable , Kakashi wins this high diff in IC , mid diff in bloodlust

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Kakashi wins mid diff there is a gap here , Kamui ignores susano armor or Taka , genjutsu Kakashi s reaction is way more higher speed comparable , Kakashi wins this high diff in IC , mid diff in bloodlust

Who says Kamui ignores the Susanoo armor? And what's Taka?

Kakashi's reactions aren't way higher. Itachi had greater reactions than EMS Sasuke who fought alongside Mastered KCM Naruto and reacted to Juubito. Unless you take the 8th Gate Guy feat into account, which is rather vague, and him fighting Black Zetsu enhanced Rinnegan Obito offscreen, but you could simply argue Minato led the charge since he's clearly the superior of the two especially in KCM2 which he had at the start of the fight.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

Itachi can put you in genjutsu even if you look at him (he did that vs Naruto) and Kamui does work by looking at the target.

To be honest, while I'd really like Kakashi to win this, Itachi has better wincons by either Tsukuyomi (and it'd work because its been pretty clear, story wise, that Itachi is meant to be a peak Genjutsu user) or Totsuka Blade (Kakashi should have no info on Susano'o treasures). Kakashi can win if he goes for instant raikiri or using clones to distract then going for a kamui but IMHO Kakashi's wincons are more iffy than Itachi's which are more clear cut. I do believe Itachi takes this 60-40. Not voting though to see if I missed something (and personally I want Kakashi to win haha)

 

[TauanVictor]

Itachi can put you in genjutsu even if you look at him (he did that vs Naruto)

iirc I think Naruto did eye contact with Itachi's finger, thus falling into genjutsu.

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

iirc I think Naruto did eye contact with Itachi's finger, thus falling into genjutsu.

Yep. What I was saying is that since Itachi can put people under genjutsu by someone else looking at him (there's no reason to believe that it's his finger specifically really) a direct kamui which would be very obvious (chakra buildup, Itachi has matchup knowledge with both Kakashi and MS as a whole) and works by looking at a target might just land Kakashi in a genjutsu instead.

 

[MinatoSparkle]

Itachi can put you in genjutsu even if you look at him (he did that vs Naruto) and Kamui does work by looking at the target.

To be honest, while I'd really like Kakashi to win this, Itachi has better wincons by either Tsukuyomi (and it'd work because its been pretty clear, story wise, that Itachi is meant to be a peak Genjutsu user) or Totsuka Blade (Kakashi should have no info on Susano'o treasures). Kakashi can win if he goes for instant raikiri or using clones to distract then going for a kamui but IMHO Kakashi's wincons are more iffy than Itachi's which are more clear cut. I do believe Itachi takes this 60-40. Not voting though to see if I missed something (and personally I want Kakashi to win haha)

Why would instant Raikiri work? Itachi can block or dodge that. And Itachi can respond to clones with clones.

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yep. What I was saying is that since Itachi can put people under genjutsu by someone else looking at him (there's no reason to believe that it's his finger specifically really) a direct kamui which would be very obvious (chakra buildup, Itachi has matchup knowledge with both Kakashi and MS as a whole) and works by looking at a target might just land Kakashi in a genjutsu instead.

The only reason why the finger stuff works is cause it was Naruto

 

[noct]

Yes arc war Kakashi can be dodged not dms , I think Edo itachi w perfect susano wins , but dms Kakashi no one in the whole series can block any shit , and genjutsu won’t work on dms , but would work on war arc but depends on situation it’s hard to scale Ic characters, I mean pure fights are usually bloodlusted and no knowledge

 

[PrinceofPein]

Yes arc war Kakashi can be dodged not dms , I think Edo itachi w perfect susano wins , but dms Kakashi no one in the whole series can block any shit , and genjutsu won’t work on dms , but would work on war arc but depends on situation it’s hard to scale Ic characters, I mean pure fights are usually bloodlusted and no knowledge

1. Itachi does not have a perfect Susanoo
2. The only genjutsu working on kakashi is tsukuyomi
3. Amaterasu is something kalashi can kamui off, since in war arc he got so good he can even use it on himself and tagged kcm2 naruto rasengan in motion so kamui is not a problem
And again I hope itachi uses Susanoo from the start cause if not he would miss his head pretty soon from a blood lusted kakashi that can use kamui

 

[noct]

Bloodlust Kakashi would eat him I am talking about IC Kakashi lol he is pretty slow on thinking I mean he knows itachi wojkd ask questions etc bloodlust would just go for a Kamui tactic and itachi s done , I said it depends on the situation, area , if speed eq, if they have knowledge depends on that but pure feats Kakashi beats him but there is worlds where itachi can win

 

[TauanVictor]

Why are considering Bloodlusted Kakashi? Both are in-character.

 

[TauanVictor]

1. Itachi does not have a perfect Susanoo
2. The only genjutsu working on kakashi is tsukuyomi
3. Amaterasu is something kalashi can kamui off, since in war arc he got so good he can even use it on himself and tagged kcm2 naruto rasengan in motion so kamui is not a problem
And again I hope itachi uses Susanoo from the start cause if not he would miss his head pretty soon from a blood lusted kakashi that can use kamui

Voting Kakashi?

 

[PrinceofPein]

Voting Kakashi?

well i am torn between two things if itachi uses susanoo then most likely GG, but if kakashi uses kamui on him before then also GG

 

[KarematsuShinjuu]

I don't think its IC for either of them to use Kamui instantly or Susano'o instantly. However since Kakashi respects Itachi way more than Itachi respects him (I'm not saying Itachi will downplay him, but Kakashi has literally has his ass handed to him once, he's going to be super careful. Plus I think when they faced off in Shippuden, Kakashi stated that he couldn't handle him alone. He has grown obviously in the War Arc, but I'm laying this down to say that Kakashi will use his trump card way earlier than Itachi) Kakashi might take this unless...

I went back to the Naruto vs Itachi fight, the one with the finger pointing genjutsu (on YouTube, cba to find scans) and it seems the genjutsu involved had sharingan crows, which I thought were the sign of Tsukuyomi? Can an expert correct me if I'm wrong?

If those can be in any genjutsu and not just Tsukuyomi, and Tsukuyomi has to be with eye contact then I think Kakashi takes this simply because he's going to bust out his wincon first.

 

[FluffyCreatureZ]

itachi stomps, not even close, itachi is a master of clone jutsu, shuriken skills, and ultimately genjutsu spam, his sharingan are far more powerful than kakashi and kakashi has no answers to amaterasu and tsukuyomi, and if kakashi is even able to do anything then itachi just susanoo's and claps.