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The King’s Last Jester - Joker vs Gilgamesh

Milly_Rocking_Bandit

Milly_Rocking_Bandit

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Profiles are (getting) updated, so we can get this going.


https://media.**********.net/attachments/649985643602116609/907463643527016538/image0.webp
https://media.**********.net/attachments/649985643602116609/907463643992555530/image1.png

Both 6-D.

Does the Jester steal the last laugh, or does the King seize the usurp?

Joker (Mid-Game):
Gilgamesh (Original Power):

Standard Battle Assumptions, and Stardard Equipment for both parties.
 
Joker is actually 5-D, but this literally doesn't matter due to MT's busted-ass Accelerated Development and Reactive Evolution. Considering these characters go from Low 1-C to 1-A in the next Palace after one encounter, and we later see fodder Shadows(atp in the game) go to 1-A with Akechi's Call of Chaos, Joker immediately rises to 6-D either the moment their battle starts or extremely quick into it. And if Gilgamesh decides to raise his stats, Joker will end up following suit.

So what are Gil's win-cons in this case?
 
i don't see anything on Ren's profile that can deal with Ten Crowns. also someone pointed out something to me a while ago that is a pretty big deal regarding one of Gilgamesh's potential weapons. isn't the Seventh Holy Scripture on this website considered 1-A for destroying Roa's soul that can exist in the Root? wouldn't Gilgamesh have that in his Gate of Babylon or the prototype since it is made by humanity? i think it's a bit extreme, but going by this website that seems to be the case.
 
RandomGuy said:
i don't see anything on Ren's profile that can deal with Ten Crowns. also someone pointed out something to me a while ago that is a pretty big deal regarding one of Gilgamesh's potential weapons. isn't the Seventh Holy Scripture on this website considered 1-A for destroying Roa's soul that can exist in the Root? wouldn't Gilgamesh have that in his Gate of Babylon or the prototype since it is made by humanity? i think it's a bit extreme, but going by this website that seems to be the case.
Click to expand...
Ren resists Subjective Reality manipulation via his inherent resistance to Cognition. I can't comment on the rest, Milly is more familiar with Fate than I am.
 
what is Ren's first step?

in this key Gilgamesh does not hesitate to issue EA and spam thousands of Gate Of Babylon which has various kinds of hax
 
TrueKingOfHeroes said:
what is Ren's first step?
Click to expand...
His elemental spells.


TrueKingOfHeroes said:
in this key Gilgamesh does not hesitate to issue EA and spam thousands of Gate Of Babylon which has various kinds of hax
Click to expand...
Danmaku is also no problem to him, considering Ren can simply do the same, and Null/Reflect Physical negates any weapon and prevents the ability from activating because it cannot damage him.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
His elemental spells.



Danmaku is also no problem to him, considering Ren can simply do the same, and Null/Reflect Physical negates any weapon and prevents the ability from activating because it cannot damage him.
Click to expand...
can he deal with Gate of Babylon coming from all directions at every angle though?
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
His elemental spells.
Click to expand...
what is "elemental" mean? is it like Elemental Manipulation? if so, Gilgamesh resist it. Ten Crown can passively negate all attack, also has layer of resistance and negation up to 20+ thanks to his Authority.
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Danmaku is also no problem to him, considering Ren can simply do the same, and Null/Reflect Physical negates any weapon and prevents the ability from activating because it cannot damage him
Click to expand...
Gilgamesh resist Power Null. how does ren resist Enuma Elish of Gilgamesh?
 
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tbh the subjective reality in MT seems pretty weird and also depends on other people. don't really see how resisting stuff like that is proper resistance since the ability itself seems to rely on the perception of others. but yeah, I guess we could go with more resistance or whatever for Gil too. so there's that. I don't see what's stopping Gilgamesh from walking through his stuff and hitting him with numerous anti immortality and anti regeneration weapons, potential sealing items, or concept destruction with the Seventh Holy Scripture, which would be in his Gate of Babylon, which should be enough with or without rating it as 1-A. but I think this website does, though I think that's a little extreme. elemental attacks also are a bad starting option since Gilgamesh has attack reflection in his profile too.
 
Not to mention literally nothing is stopping Gilgamesh from just putting a sword or something in Ren's back because he can put portals anywhere he damn well pleases as he wishes.

Oh, and I'm also going to call foul on Ren going 6-D immediately. One encounter isn't fast enough for Ren not to get fu-fu-fu-fuuucked by Ea or literally anything Gilgamesh does. Cause I SERIOUSLY doubt Ren has EVER dealt with better danmaku then Gil's.
 
also Enuma Elish aside from ignoring conventional durability can also ignore invincibility, since it can completely ignore BB activating her invincibility in the final fight and is the only thing in the entire game that can do this. Ren seems pretty screwed here.
 
DaReaperMan said:
How about "literal ocean of weapons that can literally stop a beam of energy" level of danmaku.
Click to expand...
Doesn’t care about that, look at his range, those are the kind of ranged spells he deals with.


RandomGuy said:
tbh the subjective reality in MT seems pretty weird and also depends on other people. don't really see how resisting stuff like that is proper resistance since the ability itself seems to rely on the perception of others.
Click to expand...
Try looking at the quote of Understanding, or even the first power, maybe. Particularly the part that specifically says “is responsible for the creation of the verse at large”.


RandomGuy said:
I don't see what's stopping Gilgamesh from walking through his stuff and hitting him with numerous anti immortality and anti regeneration weapons, potential sealing items, or concept destruction with the Seventh Holy Scripture, which would be in his Gate of Babylon, which should be enough with or without rating it as 1-A. but I think this website does, though I think that's a little extreme. elemental attacks also are a bad starting option since Gilgamesh has attack reflection in his profile too.
Click to expand...
Null/Reflect Physical stops all of that. How does his attack reflection work?


DaReaperMan said:
Not to mention literally nothing is stopping Gilgamesh from just putting a sword or something in Ren's back because he can put portals anywhere he damn well pleases as he wishes.
Click to expand...
Do yourself a favor and try looking at the earlier arguments, including the ones that say Ren deals with spells that spawn on you, and dodges.


DaReaperMan said:
Oh, and I'm also going to call foul on Ren going 6-D immediately. One encounter isn't fast enough for Ren not to get fu-fu-fu-fuuucked by Ea or literally anything Gilgamesh does. Cause I SERIOUSLY doubt Ren has EVER dealt with better danmaku then Gil's.
Click to expand...
Try reading the blatant Accelerated Development & Reactive Evolution first, maybe.


TrueKingOfHeroes said:
what is "elemental" mean? is it like Elemental Manipulation? if so, Gilgamesh resist it. Ten Crown can passively negate all attack, also has layer of resistance and negation up to 20+ thanks to his Authority.
Click to expand...
Yeah, elemental spells, plus curse, and holy spells. Ren has 1-A subjective reality resistance, considering the fact that all Persona-users can maintain themselves in the Atziluth, a space beyond dimensions.
 
Then I fail to see why you made a stomp you clearly know is a stomp.
 
DaReaperMan said:
Because he passively goes to his level at such a speed Gil can't do anything, drop the shit Milly, your fooling nobody.
Click to expand...
Stop putting words in my mouth and accusing me, is there something wrong with you? How does he get stomped if he is now brought to his level? He only evolves again if he’s about to die. Stop acting like some badass and actually look at the scans for once.
 
Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Stop putting words in my mouth and accusing me, is there something wrong with you? How does he get stomped if he is now brought to his level? He only evolves again if he’s about to die. Stop acting like some badass and actually look at the scans for once.
Click to expand...
Try reading the blatant Accelerated Development & Reactive Evolution first, maybe.
Click to expand...
(Humans are able to get more powerful after defeating strong demons or even as they are in the middle of battle, even against opponents ontologically superior to them, and are able to grow massively in strength in the span of merely a day's time or less, either through resolve, the threat of death, or training, or the bonds they hold dear)
Click to expand...
If Gil literally can't land a hit due to attack reflection and dodging or Ren's jump to 6-D is as fast as you say it is, then he gets stomped. If he can land a hit then Ren is completely obliterated by Ea which is Gil's starting move in this key and has 6-D AOE. Try finding the in-between, cause there is none.
 
DaReaperMan said:
If Gil literally can't land a hit due to attack reflection and dodging or Ren's jump to 6-D is as fast as you say it is, then he gets stomped. If he can land a hit then Ren is completely obliterated by Ea which is Gil's starting move in this key and has 6-D AOE. Try finding the in-between, cause there is none.
Click to expand...
Gilgamesh gets stomped by a baseline jumping 6-D with 20+ layered resistances? Are you nuts? If it was that easy, I wouldn’t have made the match.

First you act like some Internet warrior trying to accuse me, without knowing either of the opponent’s capabilities, then saying there’s no in-between? Literally all of the justifications are in the scans, nowhere does it say “x hits once, and is now higher-D, x hits once, is now another D”. Get your head out of your ass and stop trying to act like I have a plan here. I’ve been respectful, so you’re not going to come here and act like I’ve got an ulterior motive.
 
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Milly_Rocking_Bandit said:
Gilgamesh gets stomped by a baseline jumping 6-D with 20+ layered? Are you nuts?

First you act like some Internet warrior trying to accuse me, without knowing either of the opponent’s capabilities, then saying there’s no in-between? Literally all of the justifications are in the scans, nowhere does it say “x hits once, and is now higher-D, x hits once, is now another D”. Get your head out of your ass and stop trying to act like I have a plan here. I’ve been respectful, so you’re not going to come here and act like I’ve got an ulterior motive.
Click to expand...
Hax =/= actual tier. Since when has layers actually meant someone is layers into the tier? Authority kinda works like a scaling chain but also adds layers for each member of the chain's hax.

I'm not acting like a warrior I'm calling shit where I see it. You pretty much set this up to be a stomp in your arguments, because if Gil actually can't do anything to hit Ren like your arguing then this is a stomp because Gil lacks a way to hit Ren. Starting at 5-D doesn't matter when you can send the man's attacks right the hell back at him. On the adverse if Ren can't dodge or reflect Enuma Elish then he gets obliterated. Shit like hax that ain't on Gil's profile is stuff he's never used. No in-between.
 
i think you both are being way too hostile to each other. this has gotten stupidly out of hand. can we calm down? it's fiction.
 
And by the by reflecting Enuma Elish will kill Gilgamesh. It's a one-shot on Kiara and as such is a one-shot on him.
 
yea had a feeling this fight would go one way or the other.
 
... anyways

if Gilgamesh has that many layers of resistance, isn't subjective reality going to win out still? regardless, I still have my issues with MT subjective reality. not in terms of scale but how it works.

also since you guys consider hax useless compared to cosmology, wouldn't Ren's reflection be useless while he's 5-D?
 
RandomGuy said:
... anyways

if Gilgamesh has that many layers of resistance, isn't subjective reality going to win out? and since you guys consider hax useless compared to cosmology, wouldn't Ren's reflection be useless while he's 5-D?
Click to expand...
Didn't milly like, just say that Ren has a 1-A resistance to subjective reality?
 
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