Hunter X Hunter Cleanup CRT 2: Netero and his Slappy Hands plus Meruem and Adult Gon Changes

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

This is probably gonna gonna be contentious but whatever​

Also I wanted to get this outta the way before I make the verse wide speed downgrade thread


Basically this calc was accepted

Netero Hits the King

vsbattles.fandom.com

This bumps Netero's attack speed up by nearly 3 times it's previous value Mach 149.5 to Mach 465

Who scales?

Netero: Duh, he's the one doing the feat​

Meruem: Only his perception speed, physically he scales to his Mach 149.5 feat​

Neferpitou: Same situation with Meruem as she could actually see his movements​

Adult Gon: Scales fully to it due to him Blitzing Pitou​

​

Youpi: This one I only see as "possibly" scaling but generally Youpi is treated as comparable to Pitou​

​

Ok now onto the King changes

Currently the King scales to Mach 318 due to being 3 times faster than the timeframe Pouf predicted he would arrive at

This is a flawed line of thinking as it assumes his running speed is directly proportional to his combat speed which it is not

Hunter x Hunter treats that as so because Cheetu himself is capable of performing feats dozens of times the speed of sound yet having a confirmed running speed of 200 km/h

This also is ignoring the fact that in this scene Pouf was referring to Meruem running and as soon as he grew wings and began to fly he changed his estimation to 5 Minutes

Long story short

• Travel ≠ Combat speed
• We don't know that travel speed increases scale linearly with Combat speed
• This was before Meruem started flying which is treated as different from his normal travel speed

Instead King should just scale above his Mach 149.5 feat against Netero to an unknown degree

Also yes, this does mean that Adult Gon now scales above Post-rose Meruem in speed


Another thing

The current Mach 275 calculation has been debunked in this thread

https://vsbattles.com/threads/yet-another-hunter-x-hunter-speed-revision.145081/

So it should be removed from the verse page

Thats it

Agreeed2018,Kenboxx​

Disagree:​

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

bump

 

[Ped2018]

Well, can't see any problems at first glance, so i agree

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Well, can't see any problems at first glance, so i agree

counted

 

[Kenboxx]

I agree with adult Gon being faster than Mereum

Meruem himself said that Netero handspeed surpassed his speed

Pitou was also able to see Netero hand motion but could not see adult Gon movement

This
was a big speed blitz as adult Gon not only dodge but went behind Pitou without Pitou understanding what was happening and was waiting at the entrance

 

[Sans015]

This will be deemed as Calc Stacking regardless if the values are given by the author himself I presume. I don't agree with it being stacking, just a heads up in case a CGM shows up here.

Gon should not scale to this, it's stated that Pitou used her self-perception manipulation to perceive Netero's movements, plus, she could not see the hand itself. From her point of view, Netero prayed and something hit her, she never saw the transaction of the hand actually slapping down, which is what is Mach 485 in this context.

I agree with everything else.

 

[Ped2018]

This will be deemed as Calc Stacking regardless if the values are given by the author himself I presume.

It's not, Bleach had the same problem but everyone accepted it, and that involved a LOT of Cgms.

 

[Sans015]

It's not, Bleach had the same problem but everyone accepted it, and that involved a LOT of Cgms.

If that's the standard now, then sure, no problemo.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Gon should not scale to this, it's stated that Pitou used her self-perception manipulation to perceive Netero's movements, plus, she could not see the hand itself. From her point of view, Netero prayed and something hit her, she never saw the transaction of the hand actually slapping down, which is what is Mach 485 in this context.

For what reason would she not use it in this situation then?

Gon at the time was an even bigger threat to the King than Netero so much so that she immediately activated Terpshicore

Also yes she did see the attack, she just couldn't move away in time

She even commented that it came from below where she wasn't expecting it to come from

 

[Sans015]

For what reason would she not use it in this situation then?

I don't know and I don't have to know, the fact is she didn't use it. The used it against Netero not because she predicted he'd be faster, it was because of the bullet hell due to the Dragon Dive. She has no reason to assume Gon will be faster and do the same.

Gon definitely does not scale to Netero.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I don't know and I don't have to know, the fact is she didn't use it. The used it against Netero not because she predicted he'd be faster, it was because of the bullet hell due to the Dragon Dive. She has no reason to assume Gon will be faster and do the same.

Gon definitely does not scale to Netero.

False

She Increased her senses after she had guessed where they were at

And even more proof she did this specifically because she felt Netero was a threat to the King

And Gon who was by her own admission a great threat to the King would definitely warrant this perception increase

And let me re-iterate this was before she activated Terpshicora which further increases her fighting capabilities


Adult Gon is faster than Netero, that's the entire point of showing him blitzing Pitou when Pitou was able to perceive Netero's attacks

 

[Sans015]

False

She Increased her senses after she had guessed where they were at.

And even more proof she did this specifically because she felt Netero was a threat to the King

You omitted the first part of the entire sentence.

She never used it BECAUSE he was a threat, she used it SO she could FIND the threat because she lost sight of him due to the Dragon Dive. You're manipulating evidence and using a faulty translation, the one above is the official one and it makes total sense she'd use her sharpened senses to find the opponent given how the last panel literally states she's lost sight of them.

And Gon who was by her own admission a great threat to the King would definitely warrant this perception increase

But she didn't. Her eyes looks like that when she does so.

And let me re-iterate this was before she activated Terpshicora which further increases her fighting capabilities

I don't care, this is not Self-Perception Manipulation as her eyes does not change to accomodate that form nor do we have narration indicating so.


Adult Gon is not faster than Netero.


May I remind you that, even if he blitzed it, Pitou never reacted, saw, or even perceived the movement of the gold hand.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

You omitted the first part of the entire sentence.

She never used it BECAUSE he was a threat, she used it SO she could FIND the threat because she lost sight of him due to the Dragon Dive. You're manipulating evidence and using a faulty translation, the one above is the official one and it makes total sense she'd use her sharpened senses to find the opponent given how the last panel literally states she's lost sight of them.

The first part doesn't matter
Also no that is the the official tranlation

This is

It clearly states that the reason her senses where sharpened to that degree was because she felt Netero was a threat to the King

So once again Gon being a serious threat to the King would cause this sort of reaction

But she didn't. Her eyes looks like that when she does so.

I don't care, this is not Self-Perception Manipulation as her eyes does not change to accomodate that form nor do we have narration indicating so.

We don't need narration to tell us that she is going all out

By that logic Terpshicora does not increase Pitou's battle power because the Narration doesn't explicitly say it does when Pitou attacks Gon

May I remind you that, even if he blitzed it, Pitou never reacted, saw, or even perceived the movement of the gold hand.

She perceived Netero's hand movements which is the entire basis for the ability

Meruem even commented that Netero's praying is the fastest part of his attack

 

[Sans015]

The first part doesn't matter

HAHAHA

Wow, that is very funny.
It matters because IT LITERALLY IS THE SAME CONTINUATION.
It states she lost track of the opponent due to the lack of En, and the Dragon Dive and the second part states her enhanced senses GUIDED HER TOWARDS THE OPPONENT AT HAND.
It's all the same piece of information. You are not allowed to isolate a section of a sentence and discard what refutes your hypothesis.

She used perception manipulation to guide her towards the opponents, that is a fact.

It clearly states that the reason her senses where sharpened to that degree was because she felt Netero was a threat to the King

So once again Gon being a serious threat to the King would cause this sort of reaction

"Would", "Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would","Would",
That's all you're able to say. The FACT is that Pitou NEVER USED IT AGAINST GON. We literally don't see her using her enhanced eyesight, her eyes are normal during her attack. That's a fact, you can't just scale people to situations that NEVER HAPPENED because you think it would've.

We don't need narration to tell us that she is going all out

By that logic Terpshicora does not increase Pitou's battle power because the Narration doesn't explicitly say it does when Pitou attacks Gon

By that logic nothing. My Logic only states the narrator would state if something that we cannot tell was going on. Terpshicora was established as doing making her fight better, thus we should know that.

Pitou lacks the eyes she had when she used said manipulation, thus she didn't use it against gon, end of story.

She perceived Netero's hand movements which is the entire basis for the ability

Meruem even commented that Netero's praying is the fastest part of his attack

Meruem said when Netero prays, it's the only part that's faster than him. First off, that's clearly talking about Netero, not the hand. Otherwise you'd be scaling Meruem to Mach 485 as well, so not even you believe what you're saying.

THE GOLD HAND'S SPEED WAS THE ONE CALCULATED AT MACH 480+. If Pitou is not able to perceive the golden hand slapping down she is not capable of reacting at Mach 485, THAT IS A FACT.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

HAHAHA

Wow, that is very funny.
It matters because IT LITERALLY IS THE SAME CONTINUATION.
It states she lost track of the opponent due to the lack of En, and the Dragon Dive and the second part states her enhanced senses GUIDED HER TOWARDS THE OPPONENT AT HAND.
It's all the same piece of information. You are not allowed to isolate a section of a sentence and discard what refutes your hypothesis.

She used perception manipulation to guide her towards the opponents, that is a fact.

Yup, and do you know why she used perception manipulation?

Nope you conveniently left that part out because it goes against what your trying to argue

She used it because she saw a threat to the King, no arguing against it

By that logic nothing. My Logic only states the narrator would state if something that we cannot tell was going on. Terpshicora was established as doing making her fight better, thus we should know that.

And Pitou's enhanced eyesight was established as happening due to a threat to the King.

By your own logic Pitou would be using it on Gon

Pitou lacks the eyes she had when she used said manipulation, thus she didn't use it against gon, end of story.

Except she literally does

She dialates her eyes to slits whenever she does this and we see the same exact shit whenever she attacks Gon

Meruem said when Netero prays, it's the only part that's faster than him. First off, that's clearly talking about Netero, not the hand. Otherwise you'd be scaling Meruem to Mach 485 as well, so not even you believe what you're saying.

THE GOLD HAND'S SPEED WAS THE ONE CALCULATED AT MACH 480+. If Pitou is not able to perceive the golden hand slapping down she is not capable of reacting at Mach 485, THAT IS A FACT.

Pitou was not able to react to the Golden Hand because it came from a spot she wasn't expecting

It's like me acting like I'm gonna throw a punch at you and then kicking you in the nuts while your trying to block my punch and then saying I blitzed you.

Not the same at all as blitzing her

And no that would not scale Meruem to Mach 485 as he never once managed to dodge Netero's hits without literal analytical precognition

 

[Sans015]

Yup, and do you know why she used perception manipulation?

Nope you conveniently left that part out because it goes against what your trying to argue

She used it because she saw a threat to the King, no arguing against it

Mister, you are stonewalling my point, above, you didn't try to argue anything in favor of your own point, I presented legitimate reasons as to why she was using it to locate her target, and your reply was just an elaborate. "No, I don't agree", with no further backing.

To satisfy your point, yes, she did use it because she identified Netero as a threat and she couldn't find him amongst the Dragons, so she had to locate him. The reason why she needed that perception manipulation was to locate the threat, nothing else. There would be no reason to compress her perception of time based on anything other than locating the human before he gets too close, as in terms of sheer power, Netero wasn't even strong enough to damage Pitou herself. She had no reason to assume he would be faster than her, so it's nonsense to say she activated it because she had a need. In fact, she was even surprised when he was actually faster.

And Pitou's enhanced eyesight was established as happening due to a threat to the King.

By your own logic Pitou would be using it on Gon

This "by your own logic" rebuttal is quite frankly a childish attempt at replying.

Instead of trying to reapply my logic, refute it. No, my logic does not dictate Pitou was using her perception manipulation against Gon because what was established is that she dialates her eyes immensely into a swirl pupil, and then attacks. This is not seen, so the narrator would have to step in, or a visual notions should be shown to indicate so.

Except she literally does

She dialates her eyes to slits whenever she does this and we see the same exact shit whenever she attacks Gon

Except she dialates to a point in order to compress her perception time. Thank you for disproving she did it against Gon. Now drop the argument already.

And before dialating it and turning it into a point, it's clear her senses are sharpened to their max by dialating into a swirling pupil, not something that happens with Gon, and there isn't a reason to presume it did.

Pitou was not able to react to the Golden Hand because--

I do not care about whatever excuse you got, the fact is you admitted she never reacted or perceived the golden hand which is the aspect that is Mach 485, thus Gon nor Pitou scale. This is not a matter of opinion, you just admitted Pitou never reacted to the object that travelled at Mach 485, so the scaling cannot happen, period.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Mister, you are stonewalling my point, above, you didn't try to argue anything in favor of your own point, I presented legitimate reasons as to why she was using it to locate her target, and your reply was just an elaborate. "No, I don't agree", with no further backing.

To satisfy your point, yes, she did use it because she identified Netero as a threat and she couldn't find him amongst the Dragons, so she had to locate him. The reason why she needed that perception manipulation was to locate the threat, nothing else. There would be no reason to compress her perception of time based on anything other than locating the human before he gets too close, as in terms of sheer power, Netero wasn't even strong enough to damage Pitou herself. She had no reason to assume he would be faster than her, so it's nonsense to say she activated it because she had a need. In fact, she was even surprised when he was actually faster.

Correct, sensing Netero as a threat caused her to increase her perceptions so she could locate and fight against him

You keep trying to say that the only reason she did this was to locate Netero when that is simply not the case

Doesnt matter that Netero did no damage

Doesnt matter that he was faster than she expected

It tells us the reason she sharpened her senses was in response to Netero's power

Stop trying to argue against that

it's a literal statement, a fact, and that is something you cannot argue against

This "by your own logic" rebuttal is quite frankly a childish attempt at replying.

I'll assume this is because I am correct about how your logic would lead to that conclusion

Instead of trying to reapply my logic, refute it. No, my logic does not dictate Pitou was using her perception manipulation against Gon because what was established is that she dialates her eyes immensely into a swirl pupil, and then attacks. This is not seen, so the narrator would have to step in, or a visual notions should be shown to indicate so.

Except she dialates to a point in order to compress her perception time. Thank you for disproving she did it against Gon. Now drop the argument already.

And before dialating it and turning it into a point, it's clear her senses are sharpened to their max by dialating into a swirling pupil, not something that happens with Gon, and there isn't a reason to presume it did.

Damn you really got me there

This totally isn't how she looks literally every other point besides when she is in battle

She must be using it 24/7 because that just happened to be how Togashi drew her in that panel

She just dilates her pupils to slits in the midst of battle to slow down her perception time because that makes total sense


If you can't sense my sarcasm I'm saying she looks like this regularly, while when she is in danger or anticipates a battle she dilates them to slits

The literal panel where it says she increases her senses to the extreme shows her dilatated slit eyes, which by the way was the entire crux of your first argument before I disproved it and you switched your stance to the round eyes being the fast eyes


What I've just proved is that using her eye's as proof of her not being in her sense amplified state is unreliable and shouldn't be used to disprove Pitou didn't have her senses amped to the max.

I do not care about whatever excuse you got, the fact is you admitted she never reacted or perceived the golden hand which is the aspect that is Mach 485, thus Gon nor Pitou scale. This is not a matter of opinion, you just admitted Pitou never reacted to the object that travelled at Mach 485, so the scaling cannot happen, period.

1. It wasn't even a golden hand it was a emission blast
2. You just ignoring the reason why she was hit does not make your point correct
3. The fastest part of Netero's attack, the praying, was still seen by Pitou

 

[Sans015]

I am arguing with a child, there is no point in continuing this.

This is not a slit, that's a dialated pupil, if THESE EXACT SAME EYES ARE NOT SEEN AT ANY POINT DURING GON'S FIGHT

GON DOES NOT SCALE TO HER PERCEPTION SPEED. End of story, and I will not be continuing this topic unless you do show me the evidence.

1. It wasn't even a golden hand it was a emission blast

Then she doesn't scale to the golden hand which is the only part that is Mach 485.

2. You just ignoring the reason why she was hit does not make your point correct

The Buddha materializes behind Netero, she couldn't even see it before it hit her.

3. The fastest part of Netero's attack, the praying, was still seen by Pitou

That was never stated, Meruem just said when he prays, that's the only time when HE, Netero, is faster than Meruem. It says nothing about the Buddha, which, if you didn't know, is not a part of Netero's body.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I am arguing with a child, there is no point in continuing this.

This is not a slit, that's a dialated pupil, if THESE EXACT SAME EYES ARE NOT SEEN AT ANY POINT DURING GON'S FIGHT

GON DOES NOT SCALE TO HER PERCEPTION SPEED. End of story, and I will not be continuing this topic unless you do show me the evidence.

Looks like you went back to arguing for the slit eyes again after I disproved eyes having anything to do with it

Also once again she literally does do this in her "fight" with Gon so there's that

Also arguing this while we see her eyes as regular pupils THE LITERAL MOMENT SHE WAS SLAPPED completely disproves your argument

Drop the eye argument it has been disproven

Come up with something new because I will not bother to go in circles with you on this point

Then she doesn't scale to the golden hand which is the only part that is Mach 485.

She could perceive Netero's actions which are the fastest part of Netero's attack

The Buddha materializes behind Netero, she couldn't even see it before it hit her.

What sort of headcannon is this?

Nothing says Netero has to manifest the entire Buddha to his enemies

That was never stated, Meruem just said when he prays, that's the only time when HE, Netero, is faster than Meruem. It says nothing about the Buddha, which, if you didn't know, is not a part of Netero's body.

What? Since when are conjured nen structures part of the users body?

Both Netero hand movements and Boddhisattva surpass Meruem's speed but it's clear Netero's movements happen first in order for the Guanyin to move

The entire fights show movement lines on the Guanyins hands when Netero's arms have none, indicating that he had already finished the movement

And it's pretty damn blatant when we have a panel of Netero praying, and the Author stating that Meruem could barely even follow the afterimages of it
and then him being able to follow his Guanyin attacks in order to formulate a weak spot in it

Even if you don't believe me, there is one simple fact you can't deny

People who can perceive Netero's hand movements can perceive Netero's Guanyin strikes

And Pitou can perceive Netero's hand movements

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Bumping


Could I get any staff to voice there opinions?

 

[Damage3245]

I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but the Netero calc is pretty clearly calc-stacking.

Quoting the relevant section of the page:

• Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.

 

[Sans015]

I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but the Netero calc is pretty clearly calc-stacking.

What did I tell them?

I said it, even if you don't find the values through pixelscaling, using canon distances and timeframes is still calculating a speed and thus cannot be used for other calcs.

Adult Gon should still not scale above Netero though.

 

[Sans015]

Looks like you went back to arguing for the slit eyes again after I disproved eyes having anything to do with it

What? YOU were arguing for the slit eyes! That's so funny, how did you make a switch-a-roo like that?

Also once again she literally does do this in her "fight" with Gon so there's that

Also arguing this while we see her eyes as regular pupils THE LITERAL MOMENT SHE WAS SLAPPED completely disproves your argument

She sharpened her senses before, we saw how her eyes looked then. The sharpening of her senses never happened during her desperate attempt at hitting Gon, where she powers up immensely by exploding her aura, makes her eyes dialate, then jumps to attack.
No, she just uses her technique. (something she'd do after she sharpened her senses with Netero, meaning no, Terpsichora is not the same as using her compressed time).

In fact, Pitou never was able to activate Terpsichora against Netero, so the technique has nothing to do with her using the self-perception manipulation. You're literally arguing for a non-existent feat.

Drop the eye argument it has been disproven

No, Pitou has not compressed time when she fought Gon. Nothing states it, or implies it.

You cannot prove she did, so she didn't. Pretty simple concept, no?

She could perceive Netero's actions which are the fastest part of Netero's attack

They are not. You later fail to prove that decisively.
The praying does not cross over 40 meters in microseconds like the Buddha does.

What sort of headcannon is this?

Nothing says Netero has to manifest the entire Buddha to his enemies

I don't have to prove a negative here. It was never established that Netero could just manifest parts of the Buddha to give quicker strikes. The answer to this problem is very simple; Togashi drew the attack like that because we are not supposed to know what Netero's ability is. That's why we had a big reveal when he faced Meruem.

If he could just summon the strikes from anywhere without having to manifest the entire Buddha, why would he even bother in summoning it then? He manifested the Buddha and hit Pitou before she could even perceive it, simple

What? Since when are conjured nen structures part of the users body?

Read again. I said the exact opposite.
Meruem commented on his praying being the only moment when Netero is faster than him.

This would naturally only apply to Netero's physical movement, so you couldn't say Netero is faster than the Buddha since the statement wouldn't apply to him.

If you want to say his comment also applies to the Buddha, then Meruem scales to the Mach 485 calc via this statement.

Both Netero hand movements and Boddhisattva surpass Meruem's speed but it's clear Netero's movements happen first in order for the Guanyin to move

The entire fights show movement lines on the Guanyins hands when Netero's arms have none, indicating that he had already finished the movement

There is no solid evidence that the Netero hand movement is as fast as Boddhisattva's movement speed.

Both are just "faster than Meruem", but Netero has to cross a much smaller distance than Bodd's gigantic arms. And yes, he has to pray before the statue can move, but that's not because his hands are faster but because the praying is the condition necessary to allow Boddhisattva's movement.

And it's pretty damn blatant when we have a panel of Netero praying, and the Author stating that Meruem could barely even follow the afterimages of it
and then him being able to follow his Guanyin attacks in order to formulate a weak spot in it.

The statue's arms cross a far bigger distance than Netero's arms, bucko.
Also, Meruem calculated all the patterns he could do it based on arm movements, it's not about seeing him doing it, after he's hit, he knows how Netero moved.

Even if you don't believe me, there is one simple fact you can't deny

People who can perceive Netero's hand movements can perceive Netero's Guanyin strikes

And Pitou can perceive Netero's hand movements

Meruem can, and Pitou could not, as she never even saw the gigantic statue nor could she perceive the hit. Gon doesn't even scale to it either.

Saying he prayed and created an EMISSION STRIKE is silly, the pray only happens for the Buddha

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

I'm sorry to be the one to say it, but the Netero calc is pretty clearly calc-stacking.

Quoting the relevant section of the page:

• Using speed of characters or attacks calculated at other instances can't be used, as characters and attacks can vary in speed. This is the case regardless of whether the character is seriously trying to do his best or anything similar.

Except it isn't in this case

It's using a CONFIRMED distance and a CONFIRMED timeframe in order to find the speed of a lesser character

Getting the speed with those two confirmed variables is not calc staking

 

[Damage3245]

Except it isn't in this case

It's using a CONFIRMED distance and a CONFIRMED timeframe in order to find the speed of a lesser character

Getting the speed with those two confirmed variables is not calc staking

That still falls under the definition of Calc Stacking. Trust me, I've been here for years and seen countless valid and invalid calcing proposals. What you've described still falls under the Calc Stacking guidelines.

 

[Sans015]

Except it isn't in this case

It's using a CONFIRMED distance and a CONFIRMED timeframe in order to find the speed of a lesser character

Getting the speed with those two confirmed variables is not calc staking

This isn't any less or more valid than finding a very implicit distance and a very implicit timeframe and calculating the speed, which would be calc stacking.

Sorry, the speed needs to be stated directly for it to be valid. You can use Mach 1.5 or 2, since that's Netero's stated speed without even praying, and Meruem should scale above that since he is massively faster than him.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

What? YOU were arguing for the slit eyes! That's so funny, how did you make a switch-a-roo like that?

I was arguing slit eyes then you tried to disprove it by saying round eyes was the perception amped eyes.

And then you went right back to arguing Split eyes after that

She sharpened her senses before, we saw how her eyes looked then. The sharpening of her senses never happened during her desperate attempt at hitting Gon, where she powers up immensely by exploding her aura, makes her eyes dialate, then jumps to attack.
No, she just uses her technique. (something she'd do after she sharpened her senses with Netero, meaning no, Terpsichora is not the same as using her compressed time).

In fact, Pitou never was able to activate Terpsichora against Netero, so the technique has nothing to do with her using the self-perception manipulation. You're literally arguing for a non-existent feat.

Her eyes where both slit and normal DURING the attack on Netero

Doesn't matter what they looked like earlier as that's not the point where she was slapped

Also once again we literally see this same type of prep for Gon with her dilating her eyes to an insane degree

The only thing your trying to argue is because it was darker BEFORE she got hit by Netero and perceived it, that it doesn't count, which once again is a non-factor because we see her normal slit eyes when she was right next to him.

Also I find it funny in one of your lower reply's that you mention Togashi drawing things in certain ways when this is exactly the same thing, drawing Pitou as feral in this one scene to portray her as a threat

No, Pitou has not compressed when she fought Gon. Nothing states it, or implies it.

We're given the exact conditions this perception enhancement occurs under and Gon meets these requirements

You cannot prove she did, so she didn't. Pretty simple concept, no?

And you can't prove she didn't

If you wanna go that route then occums razor dictates my logic more sound due to the simple fact that Gon blitzed her when Netero was unable to

They are not. You later fail to prove that decisively.
The praying does not cross over 40 meters in microseconds like the Buddha does.

Alright lets say they are

Characters that can react to his movements can still react to the Guanyin hands

I don't have to prove a negative here. It was never established that Netero could just manifest parts of the Buddha to give quicker strikes. The answer to this problem is very simple; Togashi drew the attack like that because we are not supposed to know what Netero's ability is. That's why we had a big reveal when he faced Meruem.

Almost nothing is stated about how Netero's Guanyin works

This is headcannon unless you prove otherwise

Also we have in universe techniques such as In that make your Aura invisible so there's still other explanations as to why she couldn't see it

If he could just summon the strikes from anywhere without having to manifest the entire Buddha, why would he even bother in summoning it then? He manifested the Buddha and hit Pitou before she could even perceive it, simple

You cannot prove that simple as

Read again. I said the exact opposite.
Meruem commented on his praying being the only moment when Netero is faster than him.

This would naturally only apply to Netero's physical movement, so you couldn't say Netero is faster than the Buddha since the statement wouldn't apply to him.

If you want to say his comment also applies to the Buddha, then Meruem scales to the Mach 485 calc via this statement.

Both the Guanyin and Netero's hands are stated to be faster than Meruem so no it wouldn't cause problems

Meruem can, and Pitou could not, as she never even saw the gigantic statue nor could she perceive the hit. Gon doesn't even scale to it either.

Saying he prayed and created an EMISSION STRIKE is silly, the pray only happens for the Buddha

Once again you can;t prove he can't do emission

In fact his final attack is literally an Emission attack done using the same praying method

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

That still falls under the definition of Calc Stacking. Trust me, I've been here for years and seen countless valid and invalid calcing proposals. What you've described still falls under the Calc Stacking guidelines.

I understand that but at the same time

• Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations. (Take heed that paths don't need to be straight and that speed reliably has to be constant)

We can use Timeframes and Stated speed to find a distance that can be used for other calculations, so the same thing except switching speed with distance should also be fine

 

[Sans015]

I was arguing slit eyes then you tried to disprove it by saying round eyes was the perception amped eyes.

And then you went right back to arguing Split eyes after that



Her eyes where both slit and normal DURING the attack on Netero

Doesn't matter what they looked like earlier as that's not the point where she was slapped

Also once again we literally see this same type of prep for Gon with her dilating her eyes to an insane degree

The only thing your trying to argue is because it was darker BEFORE she got hit by Netero and perceived it, that it doesn't count, which once again is a non-factor because we see her normal slit eyes when she was right next to him.

Also I find it funny in one of your lower reply's that you mention Togashi drawing things in certain ways when this is exactly the same thing, drawing Pitou as feral in this one scene to portray her as a threat



We're given the exact conditions this perception enhancement occurs under and Gon meets these requirements

You just lie.

Pitou never dialate her eyes against Gon.
She never powers up.
She never accumulates aura.
She is never stated to compress her reaction time.

You know dialated eyes are meant to have the pupils to be HUGE, and in Pitou's case, all red, right?

You're not making a false scaling.

And you can't prove she didn't

I don't have to prove a negative.

You have to prove she did.
The negative is true by default.

What's the evidence that she did?


"She could have, so I think she did"?

 

[Damage3245]

I understand that but at the same time

• Using a reliable stated timeframe and reliably stated speed something travels during that timeframe one can calculate the distance travelled. Said distance can then usually be used for calculations. (Take heed that paths don't need to be straight and that speed reliably has to be constant)

We can use Timeframes and Stated speed to find a distance that can be used for other calculations, so the same thing except switching speed with distance should also be fine

Distance is specifically listed as an exception there.

And speed is not, as pointed out in the section I quoted.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

You just lie.

Pitou never dialate her eyes against Gon.
She never powers up.
She never accumulates aura.
She is never stated to compress her reaction time.

You know dialated eyes are meant to have the pupils to be HUGE, and in Pitou's case, all red, right?

You're not making a false scaling.

I don't have to prove a negative.

You have to prove she did.
The negative is true by default.

What's the evidence that she did?


"She could have, so I think she did"?

Alright man I'm tired of debating you

What it ultimately comes down to is what people think

And since I can't convince you I'll just leave it up to what everyone else thinks

 

[Nierre]

This can't even go further unless it isn't calc stacking, but according to the CGM, it is... so...

 

[Ped2018]

I'm sorry, but i fail to see how this is calc stacking, if a character moves a certain amount of distace that's not given by the source, but you have a timeframe given by the source, we should just figure out how much that character moved, no?

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

Distance is specifically listed as an exception there.

And speed is not, as pointed out in the section I quoted.

And what thread would I have to post in in order to change this?


Of course with Admin approval

 

[Ped2018]

Oh wait, what you mean is that we would have to calc the distance to be able to calc his speed, so that would Calc stacking?

 

[Damage3245]

And what thread would I have to post in in order to change this?


Of course with Admin approval

A staff discussion thread.

But I would take Sans015's suggestion up above and just use baseline Supersonic speed for Meruem's value in the calc, instead of trying to calc Pitou's speed and using that.

 

[Sans015]

Alright man I'm tired of debating you

What it ultimately comes down to is what people think

And since I can't convince you I'll just leave it up to what everyone else thinks

No, you actually need to prove things you say. You're the OP dawg.

• Content Revision Threads need to be supported by scans, quotes, video clips, accepted calculations, or any other direct proof that claimed events actually happened in the source material. In the absence of this evidence, CRTs may be closed without notice.
• To reiterate, when creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them.

You cannot scale Gon to Netero unless you can prove Pitou was compressing time, it's against the rules.

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

A staff discussion thread.

But I would take Sans015's suggestion up above and just use baseline Supersonic speed for Meruem's value in the calc, instead of trying to calc Pitou's speed and using that.

Nah, It wouldn't even be worth it

I guess I'll plan on making a discussion thread for this specific type of calcing soon


You could probably close this since it's no longer applicable

 

[Shmeatywerbenmanjenson]

No, you actually need to prove things you say. You're the OP dawg.

• Content Revision Threads need to be supported by scans, quotes, video clips, accepted calculations, or any other direct proof that claimed events actually happened in the source material. In the absence of this evidence, CRTs may be closed without notice.
• To reiterate, when creating content revision threads, it is best to keep your suggestions as structured and simple to understand as possible, so the staff will have an easier time evaluating the text. Avoid writing upgrade threads mainly based on assumptions from a limited amount of information, with no additional context or evidence to support them.

You cannot scale Gon to Netero unless you can prove Pitou was compressing time, it's against the rules.

But I literally did prove it

The condition for which this happens are stated to be when Pitou senses a threat to the King

Pitou senses Gon as a threat to the King

Therefore it happened the same way as in Netero's case. This is the same way we can assume Terpshicora augmented her physical abilities to the max as well

Also
" Threads need to be supported by scans, quotes, video clips, accepted calculations"
"with no additional context or evidence to support them."

I have done both these things

 

[Sans015]

But I literally did prove it

The condition for which this happens are stated to be when Pitou senses a threat to the King

Pitou senses Gon as a threat to the King

Therefore it happened the same way as in Netero's case. This is the same way we can assume Terpshicora augmented her physical abilities to the max as well

Also
" Threads need to be supported by scans, quotes, video clips, accepted calculations"
"with no additional context or evidence to support them."

I have done both these things

Terpshicora has nothing to do with the compressed time ability, remember, she did it before she could activate it with Netero. Perception is not a physical ability either, it is a mental one.

Just because it could have happened doesn't mean it did happen.
That's not proof, you just provided a possible reason why Pitou could potentially do it. We don't even know if they had time to think straight or just attacked out of desperation. There is not hard evidence therefore it cannot go through.